Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby Simulist » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:44 am

JackRiddler wrote:Also, I find this heaping of abuse on Democrats in general just at a time when a group of them in a state have taken a stand against unprecedented plans for tyranny advanced by a Republican governor who is threatening something like open martial law to be... suspiciously doctrinaire. At best.

"Democrats in general" have cooperated with Republicans in "heaping abuse" on people all over the planet.

It's refreshing to see that some state Democrats in Wisconsin appear to have shown a degree of real opposition to the Republicans; maybe they'll start a trend on the national level.

But I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:28 am

eyeno wrote:"suspicious and doctrinaire"?

Just because they ran does not mean they deserve any respect. They ran to protect their hides and their jobs in my opinion. If they had run before the protest they would have my respect. They did not. They ran after. They were obviously happy to walk in and let this legislation pass. One little group of cowards running in the heat of the moment garners no capital with me. It says nothing favorable about the Democratic political infrastructure as a whole. As far as I am concerned the Democratic political infrastructure has become an astroturf puppet with a bad astroturf toupee.


The legislation will NOT pass, BECAUSE they LEFT the state. The legislation can NOT be voted on because they LEFT the state. They took off because it was the only way of stopping the vote. They could NOT have left sooner because this all started last Friday. The governor tired to pass this in just a couple of days.

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Right-Wing Media Freak Out Over Union Protests In Wisconsin
February 17, 2011 11:15 am ET — 39 Comments
Responding to Wisconsin state workers' protests against Gov. Scott Walker's (R) proposed legislation that would strip state workers of their collective bargaining rights, right-wing media have characterized the protests as "riots" and "uprisings" and attacked the protesters as "thugs" who could "get violent."

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WI State Workers Protest Against Proposed Anti-Union Bill

WI Public Workers Rally Against Proposal That Would Strip Most Of Collective Bargaining Rights. The Wisconsin State Journal reported on February 17:

With a key committee vote out of the way, Republican leaders plan to soon pass a bill that would effectively strip collective bargaining rights from most public workers in Wisconsin, suggesting only modest changes to the proposal introduced by Gov. Scott Walker.

Key GOP lawmakers offered minor adjustments Wednesday night to the legislation, crafted during hours of closed-door meetings throughout the day, but those tweaks don't affect Walker's collective bargaining overhaul -- a sweeping plan that brought thousands of protesters to the state Capitol for three consecutive days of demonstrations.

[...]

Walker and Republicans said they would not alter their plans despite the thousands of protesters who continue to flood the state Capitol. The crowd only got louder Wednesday as some pounded drums, others played bagpipes, and many chanted, "Kill the bill" and, "Recall Walker now!"

Some protesters never left. Hundreds came with sleeping bags or blankets and spent Tuesday night in the Capitol rotunda while hoping to speak at a hearing about the bill. Public testimony stretched from 10 a.m. on Tuesday to about 3 a.m. Wednesday and beyond, with Democratic lawmakers listening to people through the morning. [Wisconsin State Journal, 2/17/11]
Right-Wing Media Label Protests "Riots," Attack Protesters

Beck Characterizes Union Protests As "Riots" And "Uprisings." On the February 16 edition of his radio show, Glenn Beck stated of union protests: "You are about to see this president start embracing the uprisings in this country. You are going to see him embrace the teachers unions and all of the unions that are marching on the streets." Beck later characterized the protests as "riots in the streets." [Premiere Radio Networks' The Glenn Beck Program, 2/16/11]

Beck Cites WI Protests To Claim That "Evil [Is] Spreading Around The Globe." On the February 16 edition of his Fox News show, Beck stated that protests in Madison, WI, as well as in the Middle East and Mexico are part of "evil spreading around the globe." [Fox News' Glenn Beck, 2/16/11]

Malkin: Protesters "Stormed" Capitol For Demonstration; Teachers Used Students As "Kiddie Human Shields." In a February 16 post about protests in Wisconsin, Michelle Malkin wrote that the SEIU "and its allies stormed in for a sleepover protest" at the state Capitol building. She later wrote of teachers staging a protest: "Kiddie human shields become kiddie sacrificial lambs." In a later post, Malkin called the protesters "union thugs." [MichelleMalkin.com, 2/16/11, 2/16/11]

Malkin On Fox: Protesters Engaging In "Thuggery." On February 17, Malkin took her attacks on the union protesters to Fox & Friends, stating, "If this brave Republican governor can stand up to the immense amount of power and thuggery, essentially, by these unions, it bodes very well for other states." [Fox News' Fox & Friends, 2/17/11]

FBN's Byrnes: Protests Could "Borderline ... Get Violent." On the February 16 edition of Fox Business' Varney & Co., Tracy Byrnes stated that protests in Wisconsin are "actually, borderline gonna get violent, it sounds like." Byrnes later stated, "I for one hope they lose. I hope they lose. I hope they stick their ground and the unions lose in the end." [Fox Business' Varney & Co., 2/16/11]

Obenshain: Wisconsin Teacher Protests Are "Reminiscent Of Greece." On the February 16 edition of Fox News' Hannity, Republican strategist Kate Obenshain stated: "We see something that's going on, say, in Wisconsin, where they have the rallies for the teachers, where teachers are yanking kids out of the classrooms and calling in sick -- totally lying - which is reminiscent of Greece and England." [Fox News' Hannity, 2/16/11]

RedState: "Leftist Union Bosses Also Know They May Be Losing Their Grip On Taxpayers' Throats And They Are Desperate To Keep It There." A February 17 post on RedState discussed the union protests in Wisconsin, as well as others in Ohio and Indiana, and stated: "As labor activists strategize for 'class war,' Leftist union bosses also know they may be losing their grip on taxpayers' throats and they are desperate to keep it there. They're not going to let go easily either." [RedState.com, 2/17/11]
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby vanlose kid » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:59 am

have no fear, glenn beck is here...



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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:10 am

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Wis. Dems leave state to avoid a vote
MADISON, Wis. -- Faced with a near-certain Republican victory that would end a half-century of collective bargaining for public workers, Wisconsin Democrats retaliated with the only weapon they had left: They fled.

Fourteen Democratic lawmakers disappeared from the Capitol on Thursday, just as the Senate was about to begin debating the measure aimed at easing the state's budget crunch.

By refusing to show up for a vote, the group hoped to pressure Republicans to the negotiating table.

"The plan is to try and slow this down because it's an extreme piece of legislation that's tearing this state apart," Democratic Sen. Jon Erpenbach said in a telephone interview.

Republican Gov. Scott Walker, who took office last month, has made the bill a top priority. He urged the group to return and called the boycott a stunt.

"It's more about theatrics than anything else," Walker said, predicting the group would come back in a day or two, after realizing "they're elected to do a job."

Walker said Democrats could still offer amendments to change the bill, but he pledged not to concede on his plan.

Republicans hold a 19-14 majority in the Senate, but they need at least one Democrat to be present before voting.

Erpenbach said the group had been in Rockford, Ill., but they dispersed by late afternoon.

Sen. Tim Cullen said he was back in Wisconsin by Thursday night, but he did not expect Democrats to return to take up the bill until Saturday. The sergeant-at-arms immediately began looking for the missing lawmakers. If authorized, he can seek police help.

The Senate planned to try again today to convene. The Assembly took no action Thursday but could take up the bill today whether the Senate does or not, said John Jagler, spokesman for Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald.

The drama unfolded in a jam-packed Capitol. Madison police and the State Department of Public Instruction estimated the crowd at 25,000 protesters, the largest number yet.

"We are all willing to come to the table. ... But you can't take A, B, C, D and everything we've worked for in one fell swoop," said teacher Rita Miller.

The proposal marks a dramatic shift for Wisconsin, which passed a comprehensive collective bargaining law in 1959 and was the birthplace of the national union representing all non-federal public employees.


Wisconsin Is a Battleground Against the Billionaire Kochs' Plan to Break Labor's Back
The war on Wisconsin employees isn't just about the budget or Wisconsin: Koch toady Gov. Walker is just one soldier in the billionaire's offensive to kill labor.
February 18, 2011 |
Photo Credit: PR Watch

As some 30,000 protesters overwhelmed the state capitol building in Wisconsin today, Democratic state senators hit the road, reportedly with State Police officers in pursuit. The Dems left the state in order to deprive Republicans the necessary quorum for taking a vote on Gov. Scott Walker's bill to strip benefits and collective bargaining rights from state workers. Newsradio 620 WTMJ reported that the Democratic senators were holed up in a Rockford, Illinois, hotel, out of reach of Wisconsin state troopers. Now, it seems, Republican lawmakers are beginning to waver on their support for the union-busting bill.

Last week, Walker threatened to activate the National Guard in the event of any disruption in services from public employees that, he said, could occur as a result of his legislation.

Gov. Walker claims that his war on the public workers in his state is simply about balancing Wisconsin's budget; believe that and there's a collapsed bridge in MInnesota I'd like to sell you. The fact is, Walker is carrying out the wishes of his corporate master, David Koch, who calls the tune these days for Wisconsin Republicans. Walker is just one among many Wisconsin Republicans supported by Koch Industries -- run by David Koch and his brother, Charles -- and Americans For Prosperity, the astroturf group founded and funded by David Koch. The Koch brothers are hell-bent on destroying the labor movement once and for all.

During his election campaign, Walker received the maximum $15,000 contribution from Koch Industries, according to Think Progress, and support worth untold hundreds of thousands from the Koch-funded astroturf group, Americans For Prosperity. AlterNet recently reported the role of Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus and Americans For Prosperity in a vote-caging scheme apparently designed to suppress the votes of African-Americans and college students in Milwaukee. In 2008, Walker served as emcee for an awards ceremony held by Americans For Prosperity. There, he conferred the "Defender of the American Dream" award on Rep. Paul Ryan, now chairman of the House Budget Committee.

On Monday, AlterNet reported on the gaggle of Koch-sponsored politicians who individually graced the podium at last weekend's Conservative Political Action Conference (including several from Wisconsin: Rep. Paul Ryan and Sen. Ron Johnson). Rep. Michele Bachmann, also a Koch favorite from next-door Minnesota, kicked off the conference.

Not Just About Wisconsin -- or State Workers

It's said that states are the laboratories of democracy, but the Kochs are determined to make Wisconsin a laboratory of corporate oligarchy. Nationwide, the war on public workers -- and government in general -- is not simply a facet of an ideological notion about the virtues of small government. The war on government is a war against the labor movement, which has much higher rates of union membership in the public sector than it does in the private sector.

Labor is seen by corporate leaders as the last strong line of resistance against the wholesale takeover of government (and your tax dollars) by corporations. So, by this line of thought, labor must die.

But it's even deeper than that. The labor movement holds whatever modicum of workplace fairness standards exist for the rest of workers, be they organized or not. Contracts won by organized workers function as a ceiling for what the rest of the workforce is able to demand. Without the labor movement, there's not a worker anywhere in the nation who has much of a bargaining position with her or his employer. And that's the way David Koch and his brother, Charles, want it.

Midwest Frontier Province of Kochistan

Although headquartered in Kansas, Koch Industries has at least 17 facilities and offices in Wisconsin (by my rough count of facilities and companies noted on the Koch Industries "Wisconsin Facts" page), and operates "nearly 4,000 miles of pipeline" through its Koch Pipeline Company, L.P. Which may account for Wisconsin's evolution into the Midwest Frontier Province of Kochistan.

The conglomerate boasts "four terminals and strategically located pipelines" through its Flint Hills Resources, LLC, which it describes as "a leading refining and chemicals company" that markets "gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, ethanol, olefins, polymers and intermediate chemicals, as well as base oils and asphalt."

The Kochs' Georgia Pacific paper and wood products division has six facilities in Wisconsin. Its C. Reiss Coal Company "is a leading supplier of coal used to generate power," according to the Koch Web site. "The company has locations in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan."

Is it any wonder that Gov. Walker signed Americans For Prosperity's pledge (PDF) against energy reform legislation?

"I Don't Run a Union Facility"

At the Americans For Prosperity Foundation's RightOnline conference last July, a breakout session for managers and entrepreneurs focused on how to talk to workers about legislative issues -- including the Employee Free Choice Act, which would simplify the process by which workers could elect to join a union. Among the panelists was former Godfathers Pizza CEO Herman Cain, who is currently exploring a presidential bid. (Last month, Mark Block stepped down from his perch as state director of Americans For Prosperity Wisconsin chapter in order to serve as Cain's chief of staff.) The panel also featured Timothy Nerentz of The Oldenburg Group, a mining and defense equipment manufacturer based in Milwaukee. Nerentz illustrated how he talked to his workers about EFCA: "[W]e don't operate a union facility. That's all I have to say."

"Now, you certainly have a right to a union, right?" Nerenz continued. "You got rights, I got rights, all God's children got rights. But you need to know before you make that decision what's involved in that decision." When I pressed him after the panel to clarify whether he was threatening to shut down a factory whose workers chose to unionize, he simply restated his initial point: "We don't operate a union facility."

Stimulus Spending Seen as Too Friendly to Unions

You'd think that a big business like Koch Industries would love the idea of stimulus spending, since it's bound to improve the economy. So, what gives? Why do these guys hate the stimulus funds so much?

Well, it seems that too much of it, in their view, goes to preserve the jobs of unionized workers -- like autoworkers and teachers -- which, in turn, preserves unions as part of the U.S. workforce. So that's why, presumably, Americans For Prosperity President Tim Phillips today sent out a newsletter touting an anti-stimulus bill introduced by a House member from the Midwest Frontier Province of Kochistan:

By the way, newly-elected Congressman Sean Duffy from Wisconsin (emphasis mine) made one of his first efforts in Congress a bill that returns non-obligated stimulus funding to the taxpayers. Now his bill has been included in the continuing resolution the House is working on this week. It’s great to see our efforts to end government overspending become the core of actual legislation and not just something we all rally for.

Bus Follies

While we're on the topic of e-mail blasts, I received quite the indignant one today from something called the Campaign To Defeat Obama, a.k.a., Our Country Deserves Better PAC, a.k.a., Tea Party Express. The e-mail expresses great consternation at the fact that Organizing For America, the remnant of the Obama campaign's organizing effort (now part of the Democratic National Committee), helped get protesters to Madison to protest at the Wisconsin state capitol. "They sent out 54 messages on Twitter alone!" the e-mail shouts (emphasis theirs). They accused the Obama administration of sending in a "mob" to the state capitol to "bully" state lawmakers to abandon Walker's bill.

In the e-mail, Tea Party Express Our Country Deserves Better Campaign to Defeat Obama screams:

Organizing For America is responsible for most of the chaos, and has been filling bus after bus with protestors and shuttled them to the State Capitol. This was not a spontaneous uprising - this was an organized effort by Barack Obama to further his radical, leftist agenda.

Tea Party Express worked with Americans For Prosperity during the mid-term election campaign. What did they do? Filled buses with activists to get them to rallies and protests.

Today, however, it seems Americans For Prosperity had a hard time finding takers for their free-bus-trip offer for those wanting to support Gov. Walker's union-busting, worker-bashing bill. As of scheduled departure time, reports the Racine Journal Times, only six people had boarded AFP's Racine bus to Madison. Several key Republican lawmakers, according to recent reports, are beginning to waver in their support for Walker's labor-bashing bill.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
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But instead, they want mass death.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:31 pm

"I'm starting to hold Sen. Miller responsible for this," Fitzgerald said. "He shut down democracy."

You're wrong fuck head

This is what Democracy looks like, get used to it


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Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:12 pm

eyeno wrote:"suspicious and doctrinaire"?


Not what I wrote! It's suspiciously doctrinaire!
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:13 pm

seemslikeadream wrote:This is what Democracy looks like, get used to it


Image


Hell fucking yeah.

Are we allowed to imagine that one universal lesson from Egypt can be learned in the USA?

.STAY IN THE SQUARE.

Or the capitol, in this case.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby Mallard » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:30 pm

seemslikeadream wrote:"I'm starting to hold Sen. Miller responsible for this," Fitzgerald said. "He shut down democracy."

You're wrong fuck head

This is what Democracy looks like, get used to it


Image



I wish I was there. Seems to me that they should have enough signatures there to start the recall. I'm sure thats going on, it must be.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby 23 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:52 pm

Don't you just love coincidences?

http://www.channel3000.com/news/26900285/detail.html
Hundreds Of Wisconsin National Guard Soldiers To Return Home
CAMP DOUGLAS, Wis. -- Senior National Guard officials and family members will welcome home about 300 soldiers from the 724th Engineer Battalion.

There will be a brief ceremony before the soldiers are taken to nearby Fort McCoy to start about five days of demobilization before their release.

The battalion formally ended its mission in Iraq on Monday. The 724th Engineer Battalion was deployed last April with about 400 soldiers from units from Chippewa Falls, Hayward, Superior and Medford.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby eyeno » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:08 pm

JackRiddler wrote:
eyeno wrote:"suspicious and doctrinaire"?


Not what I wrote! It's suspiciously doctrinaire!



I hear ya Jack. lol

I am with you in spirit on this. I hope I am incorrect. I hope you are correct. I will gleefully be wrong on this. I just have little faith that this is anything more than posture.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby nathan28 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:50 pm

Does anyone have the actual text of Obama's remarks?

Here's what the Washington Pravda tells us:

"Some of what I've heard coming out of Wisconsin, where they're just making it harder for public employees to collectively bargain generally, seems like more of an assault on unions," Obama told a Milwaukee television reporter on Thursday, taking the unusual step of inviting a local TV station into the White House for a sit-down interview. "I think everybody's got to make some adjustments, but I think it's also important to recognize that public employees make enormous contributions to our states and our citizens."


These people talk in hieroglyphics. I don't know WTF Obama, who is resolutely against the public sector unions, is doing making some vague, vague gesture of support, besides shoring up his reputation as America's vaguest president who is so committed to post-partisan "compromise" that he feels it necessary to extend perfunctorily some gesture of moral (but no other) support to people whose goals he, over half his own party, almost all of his constituents (i.e., business) and all the Republicans oppose.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:00 pm

nathan28 wrote:These people talk in hieroglyphics. I don't know WTF Obama, who is resolutely against the public sector unions, is doing making some vague, vague gesture of support, besides shoring up his reputation as America's vaguest president who is so committed to post-partisan "compromise" that he feels it necessary to extend perfunctorily some gesture of moral (but no other) support to people whose goals he, over half his own party, almost all of his constituents (i.e., business) and all the Republicans oppose.


They still have elections, remember? These are his voters.

Yo, teachers and garbagemen: Don't forget to mail your absentee ballot from the box outside your former home, as you pack your junk together on Eviction Day!

So what I meant before, general abuse against Democrats is out of place here because it would be like, well, if an officer in Egypt refuses orders to shoot at the protesters, we should honor -- or at least encourage! -- that officer without needing to belabor the usually valid point about the army itself. To do so just when someone's doing the right thing is reflexive and doctrinaire, see?

.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby Simulist » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:11 pm

JackRiddler wrote:
nathan28 wrote:These people talk in hieroglyphics. I don't know WTF Obama, who is resolutely against the public sector unions, is doing making some vague, vague gesture of support, besides shoring up his reputation as America's vaguest president who is so committed to post-partisan "compromise" that he feels it necessary to extend perfunctorily some gesture of moral (but no other) support to people whose goals he, over half his own party, almost all of his constituents (i.e., business) and all the Republicans oppose.


They still have elections, remember? These are his voters.

Yo, teachers and garbagemen: Don't forget to mail your absentee ballot from the box outside your former home, as you pack your junk together on Eviction Day!

So what I meant before, general abuse against Democrats is out of place here because it would be like, well, if an officer in Egypt refuses orders to shoot at the protesters, we should honor -- or at least encourage! -- that officer without needing to belabor the usually valid point about the army itself. To do so just when someone's doing the right thing is reflexive and doctrinaire, see?

.

No, it isn't — at least not necessarily.

Loyalty to the Democratic Party — in spite of decades of selling its supporters down the river — has helped bring about the terrible situation being faced today.

Those Democrats who are doing the right thing should themselves be praised — but the party itself should be viciously excoriated for its multitudinous betrayals of its loyal supporters.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby No_Baseline » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:40 pm

Loyalty to the Democratic Party — in spite of decades of selling its supporters down the river — has helped bring about the terrible situation being faced today.

Those Democrats who are doing the right thing should themselves be praised — but the party itself should be viciously excoriated for its multitudinous betrayals of its loyal supporters.


Yeesss.

And Jack, I always read your posts with interest and the utmost respect.

But here the Dems are still not espousing what they stand for, or even against. If they had shown up in the rotunda and stood with the protesters, the message would have been clear.

What exactly is their message by fleeing... obviously they are disagreeing, but with what exactly? Why are we left still trying to suss out the meaning when 25,000 protestors are making it perfectly clear?
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby nathan28 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:46 pm

JackRiddler wrote:
nathan28 wrote:These people talk in hieroglyphics. I don't know WTF Obama, who is resolutely against the public sector unions, is doing making some vague, vague gesture of support, besides shoring up his reputation as America's vaguest president who is so committed to post-partisan "compromise" that he feels it necessary to extend perfunctorily some gesture of moral (but no other) support to people whose goals he, over half his own party, almost all of his constituents (i.e., business) and all the Republicans oppose.


They still have elections, remember? These are his voters.

Yo, teachers and garbagemen: Don't forget to mail your absentee ballot from the box outside your former home, as you pack your junk together on Eviction Day!

So what I meant before, general abuse against Democrats is out of place here because it would be like, well, if an officer in Egypt refuses orders to shoot at the protesters, we should honor -- or at least encourage! -- that officer without needing to belabor the usually valid point about the army itself. To do so just when someone's doing the right thing is reflexive and doctrinaire, see?

.


I'm all for the WI Dems. But I can't understand Barack's "support" here. His rhetoric is so tailored that I have no idea what it means, except that he's not going to send out the Nat'l Guard.
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