Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby hava1 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:25 am

hi alice
the point about the women's issues, if you care to share your line of thinking, how do u reach a conclusion when a certain campaign is bogus, and when is it authentic re the feminist case.

I am asking for two reasons. One, the same fake diversions are used here (and the most famous one, was in the USA case of Clinton), it becomes very hard, almost detective work, to trace the spins. also, the feminists here would tell you that regardless of "the bad intent", politically, we need to pretend its kosher and go on, because that's how things are done in the "world of the big ones"

Socond reason, is that I was surprised to find out that Nawal El sawaadi (sp ?) agreed to an interview in israel, by an arab radio station. (she was interviewed by Amal Murkus, a singer, popular with the Jewish elites...), the interview , translated to hebrew, was posted in one of those pseudo radical israeli blogs. I found that to be suspicious.

In yet another pseudo such, the Mizrahi spin outlet, suddently there was what seemed like a fake debate on feminism/Sepharadi agenda. I am saying fake because these outlets, while attracting bona fide activists, are usually run by people who gradiated israeli military intel units that specialize in psyops on the web. I've had the feeling that there is some peculair parapolitical interest in the issue of women's rights, and how to weave it into the "Arab" quesion. (since the Israeli Mizrahi activists are speaking, in terms of their arab herritage). and I see what you've written...emmm.

i have to say, that I myself, became a very cautious feminist, seeing how , in Israel, the issue is spun. first, as diversion (one cannot place photos of naked women, so rape and sex offenses or discrimination, take the place), and also as in controling spills, and social discontent. the issue is quite complx, but I wonder if there are sort of checklist signs of a spun campaign.
hava1
 
Posts: 1141
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:07 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:56 am

hava1 wrote:hi alice
the point about the women's issues, if you care to share your line of thinking, how do u reach a conclusion when a certain campaign is bogus, and when is it authentic re the feminist case.


That's a good question, but it's hard to answer. Partly it's the timing, in a very critical period when the "counter-revolution" is in full swing.

One of the factors that made the revolution so effective was the incredible unity on display between people: men and women, old and young, Christian and Muslim, urban and rural, workers and middle class.

Another is that its demands are very specific and have been consistent since the first day of the revolution: for the downfall of the regime, including Mubarak and his government and his police state apparatus of repression; for a new constitution that guarantees dignity, human and civil rights for every citizen; for an end to the state of emergency; for the prosecution of those who engaged in the financial and political corruption that has been bleeding Egypt dry for decades; for workers' right to elect their own union representatives.

While promising to address every demand, the Armed Forces Council has been dragging its feet and responding only under great pressure, with the minimum it can get away with. There are things that could have been done within hours or even minutes, like releasing all political prisoners, for example, or ending the state of emergency that neutralizes civil and human rights, that they still haven't done nearly a month later. This has made people keep up the pressure and insist that they will not "go home" as they're being told to do, until all the revolution's demands have been fulfilled. A broad coalition of the revolutionaries have agreed that a small number will remain in Tahrir Square day and night, and large demonstrations will be held every Friday until then, specifically to avoid disrupting the economy. Friday is a non-working day.

The remnants of the former regime have claimed that expectations are too high and the demands are endless with new ones being added all the time and people expect too much all at once, which is patently untrue.

So one counter-revolutionary tactic is to make it true: suddenly there are all these demonstrations demanding all sorts of things all at once. We've had disabled people setting up road-blocks on major highways and paralyzing them, students refusing to attend classes and demanding that their university president be fired and a new one elected by them, etc., etc. Also, there are these demonstrations like the "Million Woman March" that are called for Tuesdays, a work and study day in the middle of the week, which basically serve to corroborate the Armed Forces Council accusation that the continued demonstrations are disruptive and costly and constitute "chaos".

There have also been some other, more serious diversionary tactics, especially to sow discord between Egyptians -- divide and conquer yet again.

Anyway, it's a question of context. I hope you read the article at the link I provided.
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
User avatar
AlicetheKurious
 
Posts: 5348
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Egypt
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby Nordic » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:42 pm

I came across this quote again the other day, and it reminded me of Egypt. It's always worth repeating:

Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.
Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong
which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or both.
The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.

- Frederick Douglas
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:07 pm

vanlose kid wrote:a friend of mine tells me this is about emir Abdel Khadir. i have no idea what they're singing but i've always liked it, so... hope that's reason enough.



*


I like this song too (it's got a good beat and you can dance to it!), but I don't understand the words either, because they are sung in a very strong Algerian dialect/accent.

I found a translation of the lyrics here:

Abdel Kader, my master, my guide
Ease my pain, make me strong
Help me through the dark night of my soul
O sweet girl of my homeland
Why is my heart so troubled
While yours is at peace?
In spite of love's many pleasures
She's turned away and left me
After a night of bliss

Abdel Kader, keeper of the keys
Keeper of my soul
I have left heaven and come back to earth
Away from her arms
I pray life is long enough to let me start over
Heal me and turn me away from my pain


The song is almost certainly addressed to Abdul-Qadir Gilani, a Sufi saint who lived during the Middle Ages.

It may also be a reference to Abdel-Kader al-Jazairi (Abdel-Kader the Algerian):

`Abd El-Kader Ben Muhieddine (6 September 1808 near Mascara - 26 May 1883 Damascus), (in Arabic عبد القادر ابن محي الدين) known as Emir "Prince" Abd al-Qādir or Abd al-Qādir al-Jazā'irī, was an Algerian Islamic scholar, Sufi, political and military leader who led a struggle against the French invasion in the mid-nineteenth century, for which he is seen by some Algerians as their national hero.


For trivia lovers, I also found this little tidbit there:

An indication of the international fame of al-Qādir's struggle is given by the way that the town of Elkader, Iowa in the United States came to be named after him. When the new community was being officially planned, on what was then the American frontier, founders Timothy Davis, John Thompson and Chester Sage—none of them Arabs or Muslims—were so impressed with what they heard of the Algerian leader's valiant struggle that they decided to name the new town for him. The American town has retained its Algerian connection by establishing a sister city connection with Mascara, Algeria.
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
User avatar
AlicetheKurious
 
Posts: 5348
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Egypt
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby DoYouEverWonder » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:31 pm

Awesome video!
Image
User avatar
DoYouEverWonder
 
Posts: 962
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:24 am
Location: Within you and without you
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby eyeno » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:10 am

(the embed worked, i'm so excited!)

ehhh, small pleasures ya know.



___________________
(bad old embed code originally meant for old windows media player embeds of some sort. now removed from main posting screen.)
here's what was enclosed in old wonky embed tags:
<object classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" id="+id+" width="400" height="336" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get/flashplayer/current/swflash.cab"><param name="movie" value="http://embed.crooksandliars.com/v/MTk5MTktNDQ2MDY?color=C93033" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="quality" value="high" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed src="http://embed.crooksandliars.com/v/MTk5MTktNDQ2MDY?color=C93033" quality="high" wmode="transparent" width="400" height="336" allowfullscreen="true" name="clembedMTk5MTktNDQ2MDY" align="middle" quality="high" allowScriptAccess="always" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer"></embed></object>
___________________



I'm not sure what "LessGovernment" has to do with Al Jazeera, but Judge Napolitano and Glenn Beck's bookers took the opportunity to let their spokesmouth, Seton Motley (yes, that IS his name), come on and "analyze" them after Hillary Clinton's remarks and praise of their broadcasts.

Mr. Motley starts out with some incoherence about campaigning in prose and broadcasting in Arabic before launching into an indictment of Hillary Clinton as a "leftist" who likes "leftist reporting". Oh, and then there's that thing about how Al Jazeera is no different than any US mainstream outlet because they all bash the Tea Party.

NAPOLITANO: ...can get real news around the clock. Is Secretary Clinton right? Is Al Jazeera one of the few sources left for real news and should we welcome it here in America? Here now to discuss is Seton Motley, president of Less Government. Well that's a great name for your organization - Less Government. Seton, welcome back to the Glenn Beck program. What is she talking about? Is Al Jazeera to be trusted? In English? Or in another language?

MOTLEY: Well, there's an old campaign saw. You campaign in poetry, you govern in prose, and Al Jazeera campaigns in English and governs in Arabic. And if you're watching Al Jazeera Arabic you get a whole different perspective on what's going on over there than what you do over here. Part of the reason it hasn't taken off greater here in America - the English version - is because it's just like ABC, NBC, CBS. I watched segments today where they're just bashing the Tea Party just like NBC does, ABC does, so there's no difference.

Alrighty then. It certainly couldn't have anything to do with the refusal of all cable providers to actually CARRY Al Jazeera, right? No, it's just because they're no different than the others. I'm truly not sure that this guy has ever really watched Al Jazeera for any length of time, but get a load of his next "analysis".


APOLITANO: All right, but do they have a message that they convey about behavior that goes over there that either we don't get from our own home-grown media -- Fox or CNN or whoever might be there -- and are they trustworthy? Or is this a propaganda arm of some government?

MOTLEY: I get this -- there's station Qatar and there's station Kuwait and they're based out of those two countries. And I -- I think it's a propaganda arm. I mean if you watch -- uh, there's a great website, MEMRI.org, Middle East Media and Research Institute -- If you watch Al Jazeera's Arabic language clips, it's presenting all kinds of crazy. You've got people saying jihadist things all the time, they reported on a British citizen who joined the Taliban and said "death to Americans". If they presented that here, I think they would get ratings, I think they would get viewership, I think there would be a clamor for what they're doing. But they're not presenting that over here. They're presenting it over there and not giving it to us here.

So that I understand him, I read it twice after I transcribed it myself. I think he is saying that IF they presented video that painted Arabs as crazy people who are out to kill Americans they'd get ratings. But because they don't do that on AJE, they're not viable? Is that really what he's saying? Well, it takes a propagandist to know one, after all, but I think he should actually WATCH what they do on both. I've watched AJE and AJArabic, and when it's live, it's often the very same video. One in English, the other in Arabic. While I don't speak Arabic, I'm not really inclined to believe the Arabic version is a propaganda version that Americans would love, are you?

And finally, all Fox/Beck viewers are admonished to beware that raving leftist, Hillary Clinton.

NAPOLITANO: All right, last question since we have 30 seconds. Why is Hillary Clinton saying this? Why is she, of all people, telling Americans to watch it?

MOTLEY: Because I think they have a similar agenda to what leftists like Hillary Clinton want to see advanced here. So this is another network that does what MSNBC, CNN and ABC does.

NAPOLITANO: Got it.

I'm glad Napolitano got it, because I'm still scratching my head. There's propaganda all right, but it's not being aired on Al Jazeera.

I'm starting to think maybe I should've stayed with the whales and fish another week.




http://crooksandliars.com/
User avatar
eyeno
 
Posts: 1878
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:22 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby crikkett » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:49 am

It struck me that it's probably not coincidental that Egypt's Million Woman March today coincided with the 100th anniversary of International Women's Day.

And I wouldn't have noticed if it weren't for Seemslikeadream's "shaking the tree" thread... ironic, isn't it, that Diane Sawyer wouldn't cover it, but did show film of women being beaten in Tahrir Square.
crikkett
 
Posts: 2206
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:03 pm
Blog: View Blog (5)

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:44 am

eyeno wrote:MOTLEY: I get this -- there's station Qatar and there's station Kuwait and they're based out of those two countries. And I -- I think it's a propaganda arm. I mean if you watch -- uh, there's a great website, MEMRI.org, Middle East Media and Research Institute -- If you watch Al Jazeera's Arabic language clips, it's presenting all kinds of crazy. You've got people saying jihadist things all the time, they reported on a British citizen who joined the Taliban and said "death to Americans".


Al-Jazeera Arabic is from Qatar, but I don't know what "station Kuwait" is. Never heard of it.

As he says, everything Mr. Motley knows about Al-Jazeera Arabic, he learned from the Mossad. Because the Mossad is highly trustworthy and conscientious about transmitting truthful information about what Arabs say and think.

No wonder Mr. Morley sounds like a moron who has no idea what the hell he's talking about. Frankly, I doubt the format and style of Al-Jazeera Arabic would go over well in the US. Unlike US news networks that jump from topic to topic, giving a few seconds to each "story", Al-Jazeera's coverage is more detailed and nuanced and they typically get a variety of views to supplement their correspondents' reports. There's no fluff and stuffing like on all the other news networks, even Al Jazeera English. No little "human interest" stories and the latest celebrity and golf news and commercial after commercial. It's almost all meat and potatoes: thought-provoking, intellectually stimulating, informative. The only exception is when Qatar was selected by FIFA to host the 2022 Soccer Mondiale, when it briefly sank into gushing silliness, but that's the only time I recall and even then, it only sank to the approximate level of most other networks.
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
User avatar
AlicetheKurious
 
Posts: 5348
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Egypt
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby hava1 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:20 am

Thanks, i see the issue is also present on this board (women's rights etc.).
So, you are saying its a matter of how/when, specific to that delicate situation over there. ok.

a small ps, when I browse the board I get an error message from google=chrome of windows, so far it only requires to "Send/dont send" check. I switched to explorer, no problem



AlicetheKurious wrote:
hava1 wrote:hi alice
the point about the women's issues, if you care to share your line of thinking, how do u reach a conclusion when a certain campaign is bogus, and when is it authentic re the feminist case.


That's a good question, but it's hard to answer. Partly it's the timing, in a very critical period when the "counter-revolution" is in full swing.

One of the factors that made the revolution so effective was the incredible unity on display between people: men and women, old and young, Christian and Muslim, urban and rural, workers and middle class.

Another is that its demands are very specific and have been consistent since the first day of the revolution: for the downfall of the regime, including Mubarak and his government and his police state apparatus of repression; for a new constitution that guarantees dignity, human and civil rights for every citizen; for an end to the state of emergency; for the prosecution of those who engaged in the financial and political corruption that has been bleeding Egypt dry for decades; for workers' right to elect their own union representatives.

While promising to address every demand, the Armed Forces Council has been dragging its feet and responding only under great pressure, with the minimum it can get away with. There are things that could have been done within hours or even minutes, like releasing all political prisoners, for example, or ending the state of emergency that neutralizes civil and human rights, that they still haven't done nearly a month later. This has made people keep up the pressure and insist that they will not "go home" as they're being told to do, until all the revolution's demands have been fulfilled. A broad coalition of the revolutionaries have agreed that a small number will remain in Tahrir Square day and night, and large demonstrations will be held every Friday until then, specifically to avoid disrupting the economy. Friday is a non-working day.

The remnants of the former regime have claimed that expectations are too high and the demands are endless with new ones being added all the time and people expect too much all at once, which is patently untrue.

So one counter-revolutionary tactic is to make it true: suddenly there are all these demonstrations demanding all sorts of things all at once. We've had disabled people setting up road-blocks on major highways and paralyzing them, students refusing to attend classes and demanding that their university president be fired and a new one elected by them, etc., etc. Also, there are these demonstrations like the "Million Woman March" that are called for Tuesdays, a work and study day in the middle of the week, which basically serve to corroborate the Armed Forces Council accusation that the continued demonstrations are disruptive and costly and constitute "chaos".

There have also been some other, more serious diversionary tactics, especially to sow discord between Egyptians -- divide and conquer yet again.

Anyway, it's a question of context. I hope you read the article at the link I provided.
hava1
 
Posts: 1141
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:07 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:22 am

I'm feeling sick and depressed beyond words. The old regime's thugs are back, with a vengeance. Demonstrators in Tahrir were viciously attacked last night around midnight, with molotov cocktails and live gunfire. The few dozen women and men who fell for the "Million Woman March" scam were brutally insulted and groped yesterday afternoon by a group of men who gathered around them.

A church has been demolished in Helwan (something that has never happened in Egypt's entire history); when Prime Minister Essam Sharaf went in person to talk to the thousands of Coptic demonstrators, he promised them it would be rebuilt before Easter at government expense and that all their demands would be fulfilled and exceeded. He also promised the Christian and Muslim residents of their village a new park and community center, as well as upgrading the medical center there. The Prime Minister's promise was announced and confirmed officially on the website of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces. The Coptic demonstrators were ecstatic, but then mysterious rumors began to spread, saying that the government had changed its mind, so the demonstrators became enraged. Some of them went to the Citadel area and set a mosque on fire and fought with Muslim residents. Armed thugs entered an elementary school in Alexandria -- they didn't physically hurt anybody, but teachers and students were terrorized. The same thing happened in a major hospital in Cairo.

What we're witnessing is what the neocons called "constructive chaos" in practise. It's a nightmare.

Some people understand what's going on, but too many are just panicking, willing to accept anything at this point, as long as the violence stops.

Time to rev up the prayer machine again. We've come too far to let the bastards win.

And as the saying goes, "Those who make revolutions half-way only dig their own graves."
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
User avatar
AlicetheKurious
 
Posts: 5348
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Egypt
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby crikkett » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:39 am

AlicetheKurious wrote:As he says, everything Mr. Motley knows about Al-Jazeera Arabic, he learned from the Mossad. Because the Mossad is highly trustworthy and conscientious about transmitting truthful information about what Arabs say and think.

:rofl:
crikkett
 
Posts: 2206
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:03 pm
Blog: View Blog (5)

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:57 am

I'm putting this here because it's beautiful, and because an Egyptian friend who happens to be Muslim posted it on her Facebook page and dedicated it to me:

"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
User avatar
AlicetheKurious
 
Posts: 5348
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Egypt
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:58 am

Sorry, double post. Firefox keeps crashing.

Well, since the post is here, I might as well write something in it: I eagerly look forward to the day when there will be genuine Christian-Muslim-Jewish solidarity and love throughout the Middle East!!
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
User avatar
AlicetheKurious
 
Posts: 5348
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Egypt
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby hava1 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:30 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:Sorry, double post. Firefox keeps crashing.

Well, since the post is here, I might as well write something in it: I eagerly look forward to the day when there will be genuine Christian-Muslim-Jewish solidarity and love throughout the Middle East!!


In fact, not having those statements where needed, might translate into a few more billions :)to the IDF.

Ehud Barak making last minute squeeze for more defense budgets, while expressing his support of the revolution. .. he is also mindful of the "needed statements" for the imperial gods.

Barak: Israel may seek additional $20 billion in US defense aid'
http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=211362

Personally, I have little regard for my ethnicity at this stage of my journey, but I did experience a lot of barriers and preconceptions as a result of my ethnicity, which I find regretful as any form of biggotry.
hava1
 
Posts: 1141
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:07 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby Nordic » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:53 pm

hava1 wrote:
Barak: Israel may seek additional $20 billion in US defense aid'
http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=211362



That's infuriating. He should get in line. Behind all the jobless homeless and sick people. Fuck him, what a prick.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests