Michael Hudson, Nov '10: GOP plans shutdown as "fiscal 9/11"

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Re: Michael Hudson, Nov '10: GOP plans shutdown as "fiscal 9

Postby Canadian_watcher » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:55 pm

stefano wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:But just look in to him. Look in to how he made his money.. it was ruthless, particularly for ordinary Britons and Russians.
Yeah, it was, I agree. But again, he didn't make the rules that made that possible, and now he's out to change them. Which he can afford to do. Remember that Marx lived off Engels's money, profits made in a dark Satanic mill in Manchester, and that Engels himself did his pivotal social studies because his family's company brought him close to the working class...


It's the bolded part I'm dubious about. It would be the first time in history anyone besides Ghandi ever gave up money and power for the betterment of society. And Ghandi he ain't.

I don't have any fondness for Marx, either, fwiw..
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: Michael Hudson, Nov '10: GOP plans shutdown as "fiscal 9

Postby stefano » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:01 am

Canadian_watcher wrote:It would be the first time in history anyone besides Ghandi ever gave up money and power for the betterment of society.
This is the same kind of nonsensical sweeping statement as "the uber-rich will do anything to anyone". I give up money for the betterment of society all the time. Lots of people do. And if your only reputation comes from being rich then your money is your power.
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Re: Michael Hudson, Nov '10: GOP plans shutdown as "fiscal 9

Postby crikkett » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:37 am

Canadian_watcher wrote:It would be the first time in history anyone besides Ghandi ever gave up money and power for the betterment of society.


Isn't giving up money and power for the betterment of society the subject of the "how to make the world a better place" thread?

I think there are more Ghandis in the world that you suppose. But that's easy for me to say.
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Re: Michael Hudson, Nov '10: GOP plans shutdown as "fiscal 9

Postby Canadian_watcher » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:49 am

crikkett wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:It would be the first time in history anyone besides Ghandi ever gave up money and power for the betterment of society.


Isn't giving up money and power for the betterment of society the subject of the "how to make the world a better place" thread?

I think there are more Ghandis in the world that you suppose. But that's easy for me to say.


yes, I suppose it is part of that thread. However, the OP in that case didn't do that.. he lost everything involuntarily and started from scratch. And in this thread, I am not positive but I do not believe that Soros is planning on emptying his bank account to pursue survival gardening.

There may well be people who have given up their wealth for no reason other than to benefit society.. but I don't know any of them. Do you?
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: Michael Hudson, Nov '10: GOP plans shutdown as "fiscal 9

Postby Canadian_watcher » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:53 am

stefano wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:It would be the first time in history anyone besides Ghandi ever gave up money and power for the betterment of society.
This is the same kind of nonsensical sweeping statement as "the uber-rich will do anything to anyone". I give up money for the betterment of society all the time. Lots of people do. And if your only reputation comes from being rich then your money is your power.


ummmm... giving to charity isn't the same thing as paying 50 million dollars to host a conference of economists to rewrite the rules of the game supposedly to make it impossible for people like you NOT to make any more money. If he believes it is so amoral do have done so the way he did so, then he should really give that money back - directly to the people he took it from, not by trying to cut out his competition.

Next - I believe that in our society there is no one with power who doesn't also have money, personal power which serves only that person's well-being excluded.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: Michael Hudson, Nov '10: GOP plans shutdown as "fiscal 9

Postby crikkett » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:19 am

Canadian_watcher wrote:
crikkett wrote:Isn't giving up money and power for the betterment of society the subject of the "how to make the world a better place" thread?

I think there are more Ghandis in the world that you suppose. But that's easy for me to say.


yes, I suppose it is part of that thread. However, the OP in that case didn't do that.. he lost everything involuntarily and started from scratch. And in this thread, I am not positive but I do not believe that Soros is planning on emptying his bank account to pursue survival gardening.

There may well be people who have given up their wealth for no reason other than to benefit society.. but I don't know any of them. Do you?


St. Colette of the Poor Clares is one of my favorites.
St Colette’s life

Colette lived in, what some have called, the most hideous selection of time and space in history: the Hundred Year War in France. The English came, robbing, pillaging and taking hostages, needing to be bought off. The French came to drive out the English; they, too, lived off the land. The Strippers of the Wheat: the marauding private war bands came, fighting their own vendettas, torturing, burning, raping; indiscriminately hiring themselves to either side and exacting tribute. The crops failed, the plague came. So many died there were none left to bury the dead. The Church was in fragments; it was the age of the "Babylonian Captivity." There was one Pope in Avignon and one in Italy. Yet the well-nigh atheistic illuminators of the fat, millionaire Duc de Berry's Books of Hours mainly depict rose gardens, hunting dogs and banquets, all under the signs of the Zodiac in a fallacious chivalric bubble.


St Clare and St Francis seem almost like legends; myths of a sunrise age, compared with Colette. Colette was diamond grit in the wheels of history.


She was born in 1381, at Corbie, a village near the River Somme; (one of the battlegrounds of the First World War.) Unlike Clare and Francis, who came from wealthy, aristocratic and merchant families, Colette was the child of a peasant artisan, a stone mason who worked on Corbie's Benedictine Abbey. Colette had arrived very late in her parents' lives. According to her contemporary biographers, Andre de Vaux and Perrine de Balme, her mother was 60 when she was born after prayer to the heavenly patron of children, St Nicholas.

Life for the future
Colette was left an orphan in her early teens and a ward of the Benedictine Abbot, Raoul de Roye. Refusing to be married off, she tried her hand at various religious ensembles, including the Poor Clares. Finally, she settled to be an anchoress, rather in the style of Julian of Norwich. A cell was built for her on the side of Corbie Parish Church and in 1402, she was perpetually enclosed, complete with the solemn ceremony of bricking up the entrance of her hermitage. But God had other ideas.
In a series of visions Colette saw, as it were, the whole corrupt social fabric of her age, collapsing into destruction like leaves swept into a furnace. There was nothing exaggerated in her visions. She could almost have seen the reality by looking out of the window. Then she saw St Francis come before the Lord, and kneeling down, he begged, “Lord, give me this woman for the reform of my Order". For the Franciscan Order, too, had been part of Colette's vision of a destroyed world. To Colette's horror the Lord graciously bowed his head in assent.
And Colette refused. The Lord showed her a vision of a great golden tree from which sprung other trees: she was the first tree and the nurslings were the houses she was to found. Unimpressed, she pulled up the trees and threw them out of the window. As she would not look at him, God took away her ability to see at all. As she refused to listen, she found herself deprived of the power of hearing. Such was the struggle that the thought of having to reform the Franciscan Order wrought in her. In the end, exhausted by her own refusal to serve, she gave her heart and will over to God - and agreed.
Now, all she needed was freedom to move - (she was still an anchoress), support, and permission from at least one of the Popes, and some followers. God sent them.
Pierre de la Saline was a Franciscan friar, deeply troubled by the state of the Church and the world. He visited another anchoress, Marie Amante, far away in Avignon. Enlightened by a vision, Marie sent Father Pierre to Colette. He arrived there in the company of one of the most powerful women of his age, Blanche of Geneva, sister of the previous Avignon Pope. Before her, few walls remained standing. She swept Colette up and took her to see Pope Benedict XIII - Pedro de Luna. He blessed Colette, gave her the black veil of a professed Poor Clare, and sent her out to reform the Franciscan Order. She was twenty five years old.

New Dawn
The first house she reformed was Besançon. In her travels she had picked up a number of followers. Together they now began to recreate the Gospel way of life of the original Poor Clares. Miraculously, she had somehow obtained a copy of the Rule of St Clare. The original manuscript of the Rule had been buried with St Clare in 1253 and was only unearthed at the end of the 19th Century.
The Poor Clare sisters had been forced ten years after Clare's death, to adopt the rule of Pope Urban IV, if they wished for the continued support of the Friars; but Colette restored Clare's own rule. Though relatively few of her letters survived the sacking of the French and Belgium Colettine houses during the French Revolution, it is known that she corresponded with Paula Monaldi and Caecilia Coppolla who were working for the reform of the Clares in Italy, and with St Bernardine and St John of Capistrano who were founding the reformed Friars, as well as with Cardinal Giuliano Gesarini, the Cardinal Legate of the Council of Basle which was convened to reduce the multiplicity of Popes. The Cardinal (the letters are still extant) was touchingly anxious that she would think of him as her son and humbly sent an alms to buy her and her sisters woolen underwear.
None of those who encountered Colette were left unchanged. She numbered both Armagnacs and Burgundians among her benefactors, as she crossed battlefields and negotiated peace.

Re-forming the scarred face
The women who followed Colette came from every level of society. Even as she had seen in her visions the brokenness that extended across every strata of life, so she was to see its mending in those who came to join her; peasant women who had been her childhood companions in Corbie, and princesses from the Bourbon House of Naples were amongst those she selected as abbesses for the houses of her reform.

Colette reformed the Friars, and until later rearrangements of the Order of Friars Minor in the early twentieth century, there were branches of theorder that held the title Colettari. She did not achieve her ends by haranguing anyone. When invited to speak to the (very unreformed) friars of Dole, she knelt humbly on the floor and prayed - and she remained in prayer, never saying a word.

Blanche of Geneva, the great lady who had helped to start Colette's reform, had asked to be buried in whatever community Colette happened to be at the time. So they buried her at Poligny. Colette had also intended to be buried there (and had prophesied it), but the weariness of a long life devoted to her sisters, travelling from house to house, wore her out finally at Ghent, in Belgium. She died there on 6th March 1447. However, God uses even political chaos to fulfil the words of his saints. During the French Revolution the monastery at Ghent was in danger, and Colette's relics were sent for safety to Poligny, in Savoy, where they are cherished and venerated to this day.

Pictures: Top: Colette the golden tree TMD 20 C, Chassé of Colette's relics at Poligny 15 C (the top figures are Benedict XII & Colette).
Ty Mam Duw Monastery of the Poor Clare Colettine Community Hawarden CH5 3EN Wales UK

http://www.poorclarestmd.org/colette/life/story.html
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Re: Michael Hudson, Nov '10: GOP plans shutdown as "fiscal 9

Postby stefano » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:26 am

Canadian_watcher wrote:ummmm... giving to charity isn't the same thing as paying 50 million dollars to host a conference of economists to rewrite the rules of the game
Well, it's comparable. Like setting up a bursary fund or a school or something.

Canadian_watcher wrote:supposedly to make it impossible for people like you NOT to make any more money.
What?

Canadian_watcher wrote: If he believes it is so amoral do have done so the way he did so, then he should really give that money back - directly to the people he took it from
He took it from other currency traders. Investment banks and so on. And I don't expect he considers it amoral. But he can see that the system harms people and he wants to change it.

Look, you obviously have no interest in finding out what he's trying to do, so never mind. It's just funny that you would so earnestly urge me to look into him, and then so obstinately refuse to do just that.
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Re: Michael Hudson, Nov '10: GOP plans shutdown as "fiscal 9

Postby Canadian_watcher » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:44 am

stefano wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:ummmm... giving to charity isn't the same thing as paying 50 million dollars to host a conference of economists to rewrite the rules of the game
Well, it's comparable. Like setting up a bursary fund or a school or something.


I don't really see it that way.. I see it more as someone figuring out how to stop all bursaries right after they had finished benefiting from them. Not that I think the monetary system doesn't need reform. Of course it does. But not by a shark. How can you dismiss his evil in the past and believe that he is pure of heart now? He has done/said nothing to indicate that he regrets what he has done.

stefano wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:supposedly to make it impossible for people like you NOT to make any more money.
What?


just what I said above re the bursaries. He is trying to stop the system that enriched him, thereby eliminating competition.

stefano wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote: If he believes it is so amoral do have done so the way he did so, then he should really give that money back - directly to the people he took it from
He took it from other currency traders. Investment banks and so on. And I don't expect he considers it amoral. But he can see that the system harms people and he wants to change it.

Look, you obviously have no interest in finding out what he's trying to do, so never mind. It's just funny that you would so earnestly urge me to look into him, and then so obstinately refuse to do just that.
[/quote]

Can you tell me what he is trying to do? I certainly don't know, except that he is saying it'll be good for us... better for the whole world. That usually isn't too kosher, but then, what does he care about kosher?
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: Michael Hudson, Nov '10: GOP plans shutdown as "fiscal 9

Postby Canadian_watcher » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:45 am

@ Crikkett

you had to go back to the 14th century. what does that tell you?
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: Michael Hudson, Nov '10: GOP plans shutdown as "fiscal 9

Postby crikkett » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:40 pm

Canadian_watcher wrote:@ Crikkett

you had to go back to the 14th century. what does that tell you?


It tells me that you're a contrarian.

(edited to correct misstatement)
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Re: Michael Hudson, Nov '10: GOP plans shutdown as "fiscal 9

Postby barracuda » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:57 pm

Canadian_watcher wrote:@ Crikkett

you had to go back to the 14th century. what does that tell you?


See: Karl Rabeder.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
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Re: Michael Hudson, Nov '10: GOP plans shutdown as "fiscal 9

Postby Canadian_watcher » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:04 pm

crikkett wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:@ Crikkett

you had to go back to the 14th century. what does that tell you?


It tells me that you're a contrarian.

(edited to correct misstatement)


I am so, a lot of the time.

You are so when it comes to whatever I post. I am flattered, though. My own personal booing section.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: Michael Hudson, Nov '10: GOP plans shutdown as "fiscal 9

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:16 pm

Not OT:

Unpaid jobs: The new normal?
FORTUNE, March 25, 2011 12:33 pm

While businesses are generally wary of the risks of using unpaid labor, companies that have used free workers say it can pay off when done right.

By Katherine Reynolds Lewis, contributor

FORTUNE -- With nearly 14 million unemployed workers in America, many have gotten so desperate that they're willing to work for free. While some businesses are wary of the legal risks and supervision such an arrangement might require, companies that have used free workers say it can pay off when done right.

"People who work for free are far hungrier than anybody who has a salary, so they're going to outperform, they're going to try to please, they're going to be creative," says Kelly Fallis, chief executive of Remote Stylist, a Toronto and New York-based startup that provides Web-based interior design services. "From a cost savings perspective, to get something off the ground, it's huge. Especially if you're a small business."

In the last three years, Fallis has used about 50 unpaid interns for duties in marketing, editorial, advertising, sales, account management and public relations. She's convinced it's the wave of the future in human resources. "Ten years from now, this is going to be the norm," she says.

...

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2011/ ... ew-normal/


Those quotes are vile, the whole article is vile, the entire vampiric mindset and vocabulary is just fucking obscene. ("Human resources" - it's unspeakable. And "creative"! Crawling is now deemed creative.)

But it demonstrates once again what the vampires want: they want it all, literally. And for that they need slaves ("it can pay off when done right").

Slavery: the new normal.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
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