OSAMA BIN LADEN ANNOUNCED DEAD BY OBAMA (renamed thread)

[JackRiddler]

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Now a Little One, I'm afraid is far more probable, and may not even come from "Them." A strike within the US of any size would have dramatic repercussions for mobilizing hysteria, unity shows and further boosting surveillance and control. There hasn't actually been anything here in 10 years.

Meanwhile, xymphora lives in his own world, making up scenarios whole-cloth that he convinces himself are indisputable the moment he's penned them and you must be a moron if you don't see the same thing. Still I can't resist checking in occasionally, and his latest input is, well, one possibility out of many:

Obama's Osama II

Americans of all political stripes are shouting 'USA, USA' and behaving in the embarrassing style to which the rest of the world has become accustomed. Much celebration of the competence and toughness of the American military. But the greater operation was a complete fuck-up. Obama was supposed to be able to announce, in quick succession:
- the death of Gaddafi, and thus the American 'salvation' of the people of Libya; and
- the live capture of Osama bin Laden.

Instead, these incompetents end up killing Seif (the Lesser) and possibly three Gaddafi grandsons, and letting Osama turn into a martyr. 'USA, USA' indeed. Morons! I'll bet Obama's swearing at hearing the results peeled the wallpaper off the walls of the Oval Office. It must have been like one of those Hitler videos. Then he had to put on his game face, turn on the teleprompter, and announce 'victory'.

Burial at sea? If they were really interested in preventing the creation of a shrine they could have easily buried him anywhere in Pakistan in an unmarked grave the whereabouts of which was only known to a handful of American soldiers. We've reached the point where we are seeing additions to the Official Story that are included just to create interest amongst the conspiracy crowd. I am reminded of Atta's passport.

I think the intent was 100 percent a dead OBL. Or rather, a "dead" "OBL" regardless of when OBL died or who was killed on Sunday. Which puts a different spin on "burial at sea."

But the intent to have combined OBL with Gaddafi on the same weekend sounds about right.

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[8bitagent]

Again I usually roll my eyes at Alex Jones these days, especially with his birther crap...
but I agree with what he said today "This bin Laden thing is the beginning of something big...I think they're getting ready to blow a city with nukes"

This I actually felt was necessary prior to September 11th, which is why I was honestly expecting such a thing -- a "Reichstag Fire" event -- on the basis of the Bush mob seizing power in a fraudulent election and the revival of the Central Asian great game. This is not necessary today. In case you haven't noticed, US people barely noticed that a new front was opened in Libya, and they don't even know Yemen exists. What's to stop escalations or new campaigns, other than overstretch or military defeat? However, as those are factors, the crew in the cockpit right now is looking to maintain the ongoing wars, not to open new fronts. We'll see about Pakistan. I'm expecting status quo -- already murderous -- with lots of kabuki diplomatic conflicts.

Jack, doesn't this argument, that America has acute ADD distraction and goldfish memory give credence all the more that only a "big one" will be able to really galvanize support? I literally overnight have seen so many "Obama is a muslim commie blah blah" people on tv and radio change their tune on Obama. After a major nuke attack, he'd be a God. Sure, some would say he failed to protect us, but he'd be Lord Obama. Of course the PTB could also pull the neo Nazi lone wolf card to drum up race wars, hence the baiting the racist right wingers in America("the only brown thing at this protest is my sign")

Also, we're debating this as if the US is acting in its own interests...seems to me the game was to destroy America. Use it like a tampon, and flush it down the toilet. How much has been spent in ten years, trillions? America's name is in the crapper, the financial situation. I suspect much deeper interests are influencing the scenes, and ultimately 9/11 was to get the US sucked into endless protracted wars to spread America thin and bleed us financially. Now some might attribute that to bin Laden's angle, but he's been groomed from birth to be where he is...as has Obama. Kabuki indeed.

They never cared a crap about international support for that. Never. Yeltsin's first war on Chechnya had failed because of Russians hating it and hating him. Do you remember that? Do you even know about the mid 1990s Chechnya war? The mothers' protests, as they were called, did that in, forced a withdrawal. The point in 1999 was to mobilize Russians in support of a second Chechnya war -- also to deify the FSB's wonderman Putin as the solution for a Russia seemingly in terminal crisis. It worked.

I misspoke, I meant to type internal support. And I definitely remember the early 90's through mid 90's former Soviet conflicts. Georgia, Azerbaijan, Chechnya. I spent awhile researching Bosnia and the Balkan conflicts of 92-02. I've long believed Bosnia and Chechnya is how the ptb the hijackers and created the spine of sept 11th. But I agree 100% with your take on Chechnya. They even have killed any journalist and whistleblower exposing this stuff. Wikileaks said last year FSB is in bed with mafia running cities.

You're not really going to want to debate *what* we saw under Bush in the way of Homeland insanity and repressions, as opposed to what we've seen under Obama? The roundups right after September 11th, all the fake warnings and color-coded panics, renditions, torture, children at Gitmo? Some things have been phased out, but there is a remarkable continuity in the last two years and a continuing salami tactic of expanding the surveillance and control systems, and it's absurd to suggest there's a radical new quality to it that's especially Obama's. (And who mentioned shoes? They've been making me take off my goddamn shoes for almost 10 years now.)

True, but now we could get ready to see this treatment to the public at large. If we see a total collapse of the economy, all bets are off as well. And what happened to all the popular leftist protests against Bush during all the torture, abu gharib, war, etc stuff?

Huh? Who forced the US to scale back on Libya? Did you see any protests? Fact is, the US has been ambivalent about Libya from the beginning. That's not an excuse for its participation. UK, France and Italy led the charge politically and now militarily.

Well it seems a lot of the liberal media and self ascribed liberals supported this. "humanitarian wars" are always neo liberal positions.

Do you think a "Big One" solves the problem that the US military is overstretched and already draining too much of what's left of the Treasury? They're already spending a trillion dollars a year and the corporations are plundering too much of it to actually field a force that can do much more than what is already in play.

The whole point is to overstretch! To drain, to bleed. To crash the empire and bring about total chaos.

You always say this and it's bullshit. A bunch of Obama cheerleaders at the White House yesterday is not "the left." I don't know what you define as "the left" but I see many signs of growing popular mobilization against the class war, and opposition to the military budgets will go with that as it grows. Because that part is unavoidable. War eats any part of this nation's surplus wealth that the super-rich don't rake in as rentier income and plunder.

Maybe I don't live in Austin, Portland, etc...but I just don't see this mass true leftist awakening. Jack, it's certainly not being shown in any of the liberal blog news sites. Huffpo, Dailykoss, Crooksandliars, Firedoglake, Politico, etc is all raw raw go Obama, we got that thar Ay-rab...lock stock with Fox, MSNBC, CNN, etc.

I never saw one damn protest against Afghanistan, unlike the controlled ptb created "anti Iraq" swell. "Iraq war=good/Afghanistan war=justified/Bin Laden did 9/11". Thats been, and has always been the liberal meme. Now and then I run across college kids and others who aren't too sure about Obama anymore, but the message of the media and popular thought is "anti Obama=racist birther tea partier"

Has there been any big anti war demos lately? Any liberal sites questioning this bin Laden stuff? Even conspiracy truther friendly Rawstory was making fun of people who question the bin laden dead story.
everytime I bring up anything regarding oil, finances, war, etc I always hear leftists say "yeah yeah, conspiracy theories". This is why I like Norman Finklestein a lot more than Chomsky...John Pilger a lot more than Naomi Klein, etc

You will see continued bombings and attempts to continue the current force commitments in Afpak and to stay in Iraq. That's horrible for the bombed and the occupied. You will not see new ground force commitments. At least, I don't believe that's the plan, because I don't see the logic or the reasons for it you say you do.

And in this case, I certainly hope I'm right!

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True. And they're going back and forth with Pakistan. They double crossed us, no theyre our allies in the war on terruh...no wait, they financed al qaeda and taliban...
Now its "Pakistani ISI was behind Mumbai 2008 massacre". All I know is it seems like war isnt going to ebb, but graduate to the new level beyond these piddly little small time conflicts.

[One Dog Watching]

Fucking hideous...

http://www.usatoday.com/yourlife/mind-soul/2011-05-04-bin-laden-youth-millennials_n.htm

"It's like Voldemort is dead," Howe says. "It's a Harry Potter world. For this generation, there's either pure evil or pure good. There's no anti-hero. They're out to get rid of these terrible forces and have a celebration. A happy ending. This is very defining for their generation. They've supplied the young troops who've been over there fighting for their lives."

[8bitagent]

.

Now a Little One, I'm afraid is far more probable, and may not even come from "Them." A strike within the US of any size would have dramatic repercussions for mobilizing hysteria, unity shows and further boosting surveillance and control. There hasn't actually been anything here in 10 years.

Meanwhile, xymphora lives in his own world, making up scenarios whole-cloth that he convinces himself are indisputable the moment he's penned them and you must be a moron if you don't see the same thing. Still I can't resist checking in occasionally, and his latest input is, well, one possibility out of many:

Obama's Osama II

Americans of all political stripes are shouting 'USA, USA' and behaving in the embarrassing style to which the rest of the world has become accustomed. Much celebration of the competence and toughness of the American military. But the greater operation was a complete fuck-up. Obama was supposed to be able to announce, in quick succession:
- the death of Gaddafi, and thus the American 'salvation' of the people of Libya; and
- the live capture of Osama bin Laden.

Instead, these incompetents end up killing Seif (the Lesser) and possibly three Gaddafi grandsons, and letting Osama turn into a martyr. 'USA, USA' indeed. Morons! I'll bet Obama's swearing at hearing the results peeled the wallpaper off the walls of the Oval Office. It must have been like one of those Hitler videos. Then he had to put on his game face, turn on the teleprompter, and announce 'victory'.

Burial at sea? If they were really interested in preventing the creation of a shrine they could have easily buried him anywhere in Pakistan in an unmarked grave the whereabouts of which was only known to a handful of American soldiers. We've reached the point where we are seeing additions to the Official Story that are included just to create interest amongst the conspiracy crowd. I am reminded of Atta's passport.

I think the intent was 100 percent a dead OBL. Or rather, a "dead" "OBL" regardless of when OBL died or who was killed on Sunday. Which puts a different spin on "burial at sea."

But the intent to have combined OBL with Gaddafi on the same weekend sounds about right.

.

They came close to getting Ghadafy. I jokingly posted on cheering threads and comment sections with smarmy stuff like "Hell yeah we got bin Laden! And Obama got those Ghadafy grand kids too. America, hell yeah! Us Democrats can kick Ay-rab butt too!"

That article isn't correct tho. They went in to kill bin Laden, simple as that. There would not be mass celebration if he was alive. They needed their Hitler death anniversary.

[8bitagent]

Glad to hear it. I'm planning for kids too. Good luck, I met my girl online a long time ago. Once you meet in person its like a regular date anyhow. The one thing the iboga experience gave me, and it is really impossible to put into words, was something I would term spiritual. I believe there is something inherently transcendental about us, which is why we have so many faiths to begin with, which is nothing to say about how the organized institutions are run themselves.

Nice! Yeah sadly most my courtships began from online-to-real life. I definitely dont consider anything official til ya meet in person. But I got crushes just snail mailing with pen pal girls in the early to mid 90's, tape trading mix riot grrl/underground music and hand written letters. Got into chats, forums, newsgroups, emails in 1996 and the rest is history. I believe strongly in fate...that you could miss your bus, decide to walk and meet the girl or guy of your dreams in a cafe youve never been before...but that day decide to go to. Or a waffle house in the middle of nowhere on a trip, that you ask your buddies to pull over to as you have a sudden craving...and a girl likes your depeche shirt as she is about to leave.

That so rocks you saw Bill Hicks in person when he was alive. And Im glad ya had a kind of metaphysical transformative experience. I once witnessed a near hour long dancing UFO formation in the sky a couple decades back, though Ive always been quite reluctant to try any drug or hallucinagen

[Luther Blissett]

I don't know what to say about any of this. I don't know where we're headed.


C.I.A. Closes Unit Focused on Capture of bin Laden

The goal has never been to get bin Laden

I truly am not that concerned about him

Catching or killing Bin Laden is not a significant US objective

[Avalon]

Oh yeah, and "a prepared flat board"? What the fuck kind of English is that? "A prepared flat board"? Fuck off!

I took it to be suggestive of waterboarding, only this time they really would drown him if only he weren't already dead. A sort of poetic nudge nudge wink wink.

[8bitagent]

Gosh bless Glenn Greenwald, one of the few more visible liberal writers speaking truth to power

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn ... index.html

[Nordic]

This is NOT from The Onion. Repeat, NOT from The Onion:

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/05/03/outr ... ens-death/

Outrage as Steelers’ Running Back Insufficiently Happy With Bin Laden’s Death

Steelers' President Terms Comments Incomprehensible

Popular outrage is swelling tonight against Pittsburgh Steelers running back Rashard Mendenhall following the star’s tweets about the slaying of Osama bin Laden.

Mendenhall, whose previous tweets about the merits of the NFL Draft came under scrutiny, caused quite a stir when, citing the Christian principle “those who judge others, will also be judged themselves,” wondered whether it was appropriate to “celebrate” the death of anyone.

Mendenhall’s comments were quick to spawn a flurry of controversy and public condemnation. Steelers owner Art Rooney II termed Mendenhall’s lack of joy incomprehensible in an official response, saying that the “entire Steelers’ organization” is officially very proud of the killing.

Mendenhall’s comment was a paraphrase of Matthew 7:1, a part of the biblical Sermon on the Mount termed the “discourse on judgementalism.” Though the sermon is considered the canonical word of God throughout Christendom, there is a considerable debate among Christians today over whether there is an implied Osama Exemption within the sermon that permits Christians to celebrate his slaying.

"Christian Nation" my ass.

Oh and by the way, when you link to something from that site, antiwar.com, Fascistbook gives you this weird warning that makes it look like you're going someplace that's gonna give you a virus or rip you off. It's weird and I've never seen it for any other link on FB. Assholes.

[Nordic]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/ ... 4E20110503

Should bin Laden have been captured and tried?






Hoo, boy, thats a funny one! Could you IMAGINE? Suddenly I want to become a playwright and write a few of those scenes. You know, at the trial. Under questioning. WOW.

Next would have to be Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the rest of them. Just make it an endless string of terrorist conspirators.

[AhabsOtherLeg]

Yet, all the CIA/DELTA/Series from that 2001 mission have come out and exposed how Rumsfeld aborted the mission last minute. Just like Clinton and Sandy Berger 10 times before.
Bin Laden was a protected boogeyman til they wanted him dead.

Yes, he was, but Cofer Black knew (or just ranted) that they would need DNA evidence of Bin Laden's death in 2001. If they had killed him and got the DNA evidence back then, when they were making the most noise about their intention to do so, it seems they would not have had a readily available comparison sample from one of his many siblings, half-siblings, or sons to test it against. So they wouldn't have been able to bury him as hurriedly as they have, after doing the DNA test in a helicopter or on board a ship, as they have done now, "in accordance with Islamic custom."

But they do have samples now, anyway, I suppose, from his son who defected, and the test is done, and they've buried him at sea someplace, so it doesn't matter anymore. To be honest, I just needed to have a post or two on the Osama's Death thread. Sorry.

[Nordic]

Haven't watched Jon Stewart in a while, gave up on him, he's become a mainstream Obama-Putz and an all around ASS, but tonight I thought I'd see how he was dealing with the OBL thing.

He is equating those who want to see pictures of Osama's body with moon-landing-conspiracy-theorists.

Yes, he's actually doing that. We don't need evidence, we don't need proof, if we don't just take Obama's word for it, you're exactly like the birth-certificate nutjobs.

I swear to god.

And now he's going after Pakistan.

Which seems to be the developing story, to go after Pakistan.

Yesterday, not so much. The official story from the State Dept types seemed to be "well, Pakistan is as much a victim of terrorism as anyone else blah blah blah".

God it's weird how much I hate Stewart, after loving him for so long.

He's going after the Pakistani ISI at this point. Like that's news. He's turning into an alternate universe Rush Limbaugh.

[82_28]

[kenoma]

Sly insinuations at the end of this article by Declan Walsh - in the Guardian of all places:

It is unclear what will happen now to the house that Osama built. It has become an embarrassment for Pakistan, a reminder of the fact that the world's most famous fugitive managed to live in suburban comfort, apparently undetected, for up to six years.

Some fear it could become a shrine of sorts for al-Qaida supporters, and so it may be destroyed. But failing that, it may simply be rented out again. It is, after all, an attractive property – spacious, well located, and fully fitted with advanced security features. In fact it's just the sort of house that is favoured by security-conscious US diplomats elsewhere in Pakistan. Perhaps they might consider taking it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ma ... death-raid

[8bitagent]

I have to admit...Im starting to regret spreading all the Pakistani ISI stuff...regardless if they are behind the Mumbai attack or have had a hand in al Qaeda and Taliban, so many of the headlines and right wing talking points(even MSNBC talking point) is Pakistan Pakistan Pakistan. They double crossed us, they are behind bin Laden. Even the head of counter intelligence and the top generals saying that today.

Wasn't Ray Davis caught trying to stir up networks in Pakistan, more nuclear subterfuge and more post AQ Khan planting?

A very dangerous game indeed that's being played...

Yet, all the CIA/DELTA/Series from that 2001 mission have come out and exposed how Rumsfeld aborted the mission last minute. Just like Clinton and Sandy Berger 10 times before.
Bin Laden was a protected boogeyman til they wanted him dead.

Yes, he was, but Cofer Black knew (or just ranted) that they would need DNA evidence of Bin Laden's death in 2001. If they had killed him and got the DNA evidence back then, when they were making the most noise about their intention to do so, it seems they would not have had a readily available comparison sample from one of his many siblings, half-siblings, or sons to test it against. So they wouldn't have been able to bury him as hurriedly as they have, after doing the DNA test in a helicopter or on board a ship, as they have done now, "in accordance with Islamic custom."

But they do have samples now, anyway, I suppose, from his son who defected, and the test is done, and they've buried him at sea someplace, so it doesn't matter anymore. To be honest, I just needed to have a post or two on the Osama's Death thread. Sorry.

It's hard to know what to believe anymore. It is VERY odd none of the bin Laden videos seemed very legit...like the 2007 dark beard one that was just way too bizarre.
The white house is absolutely refusing to release any bin Laden evidence, and the sentiment is your a "birther" if you want proof.