Joplin suffers 'direct hit' from tornado; 'major damage'

[eyeno]

Or one could be bothered figuring enough about these things to figure out how they might work then try to find some evidence for them working and discuss it critically instead of pointing at glitches in a composite image structured and presented by either the govt or private corporations and speaking crap about it.

I've probably forgotten more about weather manipulation and weather modification for peaceful and weapons purposes than you've known in your whole life. Don't lecture me that I should read patents I first read over a decade ago.

Can you explain how the relationship between the circles in the radar maps and the actual weather that follows? How does that happen? What process is involved? What is happening when those circular things appear on the radar? And how does that generate the severe weather conditions that follow?

Was not directed at you, Joe, or anybody else in particular. Was not a lecture. Only suggested reading for any that may be interested. That is all.

[eyeno]

But for you Joe I will add this. If you don't understand how the technology can generate severe weather by heating the ionosphere, pushing it up, holding it up, and then letting the warm air rush down 24 hour later then maybe you need to read the patents again.

[Nordic]

So eyeno, why would these mysterious supervillians be raining big-ass tornadoes down upon Joplin Missouri?

[eyeno]

So eyeno, why would these mysterious supervillians be raining big-ass tornadoes down upon Joplin Missouri?

Don't necessarily think they would on purpose but if it was a side effect of using the radar system for war purposes I seriously doubt it would stop them. Also would not surprise me if they relished in the fact that the technology was suitable for food crop manipulation. They just ruined 40% of the nation's rice crop and thousands of acres of wheat to save the tiny town of Cairo...uhhhh...only to flood tens of thousands out of their homes. So obviously saving Cairo was not much of a humanitarian decision huh?

[Joe Hillshoist]

Don't necessarily think they would on purpose but if it was a side effect of using the radar system for war purposes I seriously doubt it would stop them.

I did a bit of speculating about weather modification on that thread about the world getting windier.

[justdrew]

if the artifacts in the weather radar really meant anything, they would have been scrubbed.

the storms are totally believable so far without resorting to this explanation.

if such ionospheric heating were being used for weather modification, would there be a way for civilians to build equipment to spot such it in use?

[eyeno]

this is a snip from an air force article that explains some of what they are doing. basically they are creating mirrors to bounce signals off of.
http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/ ... 3c15-1.htm

A Research Paper

Presented To

Air Force 2025

by

Col Tamzy J. House
Lt Col James B. Near, Jr.
LTC William B. Shields (USA)
Maj Ronald J. Celentano
Maj David M. Husband
Maj Ann E. Mercer
Maj James E. Pugh

August 1996

A number of methods have been explored or proposed to modify the ionosphere, including injection of chemical vapors and heating or charging via electromagnetic radiation or particle beams (such as ions, neutral particles, x-rays, MeV particles, and energetic electrons).45 It is important to note that many techniques to modify the upper atmosphere have been successfully demonstrated experimentally. Ground-based modification techniques employed by the FSU include vertical HF heating, oblique HF heating, microwave heating, and magnetospheric modification.46 Significant military applications of such operations include low frequency (LF) communication production, HF ducted communications, and creation of an artificial ionosphere (discussed in detail below). Moreover, developing countries also recognize the benefit of ionospheric modification: "in the early 1980's, Brazil conducted an experiment to modify the ionosphere by chemical injection."47

Several high-payoff capabilities that could result from the modification of the ionosphere or near space are described briefly below. It should be emphasized that this list is not comprehensive; modification of the ionosphere is an area rich with potential applications and there are also likely spin-off applications that have yet to be envisioned.

Ionospheric mirrors for pinpoint communication or over-the-horizon (OTH) radar transmission. The properties and limitations of the ionosphere as a reflecting medium for high-frequency radiation are described in appendix A. The major disadvantage in depending on the ionosphere to reflect radio waves is its variability, which is due to normal space weather and events such as solar flares and geomagnetic storms. The ionosphere has been described as a crinkled sheet of wax paper whose relative position rises and sinks depending on weather conditions. The surface topography of the crinkled paper also constantly changes, leading to variability in its reflective, refractive, and transmissive properties.

Creation of an artificial uniform ionosphere was first proposed by Soviet researcher A. V. Gurevich in the mid-1970s. An artificial ionospheric mirror (AIM) would serve as a precise mirror for electromagnetic radiation of a selected frequency or a range of frequencies. It would thereby be useful for both pinpoint control of friendly communications and interception of enemy transmissions.

This concept has been described in detail by Paul A. Kossey, et al. in a paper entitled "Artificial Ionospheric Mirrors (AIM)."48 The authors describe how one could precisely control the location and height of the region of artificially produced ionization using crossed microwave (MW) beams, which produce atmospheric breakdown (ionization) of neutral species. The implications of such control are enormous: one would no longer be subject to the vagaries of the natural ionosphere but would instead have direct control of the propagation environment. Ideally, the AIM could be rapidly created and then would be maintained only for a brief operational period. A schematic depicting the crossed-beam approach for generation of an AIM is shown in figure 4-1.49

An AIM could theoretically reflect radio waves with frequencies up to 2 GHz, which is nearly two orders of magnitude higher than those waves reflected by the natural ionosphere. The MW radiator power requirements for such a system are roughly an order of magnitude greater than 1992 state-of-the-art systems; however, by 2025 such a power capability is expected to be easily achievable.

[wintler2]

Eyeno, you do know that nearly all of our weather resides in the troposphere, the lowest part of atmsphere, up to 10km?

The ionosphere doesn't start till 50km up. And you're claiming that heating the ionosphere dramaticly changes the weather 50+km down? Not likely, to put it mildly.

But for you Joe I will add this. If you don't understand how the technology can generate severe weather by heating the ionosphere, pushing it up, holding it up, and then letting the warm air rush down 24 hour later then maybe you need to read the patents again.

The patents don't prove what you say is either possible or actually happening.

So eyeno, why would these mysterious supervillians be raining big-ass tornadoes down upon Joplin Missouri?

Don't necessarily think they would on purpose but if it was a side effect of using the radar system for war purposes I seriously doubt it would stop them.

Which war are you talking about? Has Missouri finally invaded Kansas? Excellent!


I have yet to see anyone attempt to show that enough energy is being effectively applied to enough air sufficient to change weather. I think fans of the idea lack appreciation of the scale of 'the ocean above' (atmosphere).

[Joe Hillshoist]

But for you Joe I will add this. If you don't understand how the technology can generate severe weather by heating the ionosphere, pushing it up, holding it up, and then letting the warm air rush down 24 hour later then maybe you need to read the patents again.

Yeah and there is no relationship between that and the glitches on a composite computer friendly image created by private and public orgs with govt contacts and contracts out of several different sources of raw data. Well there may be, but some hard evidence would help, as usual.

You can't use any old radar system to do that sort of thing, you need massive sources of energy and massive effective transmitters.

[Nordic]

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/ ... 3c15-1.htm

That's a very interesting article, but nowhere in it does it describe doing anything on a large scale. In fact, it specifies relatively small areas where this could be, in a best case scenario and by 2025, possibly affected.

It also mentions specifically that it doesn't intend to be able to deal with anything large scale such as intense low pressure systems and that sort of thing.

Listen, I've spent a lot of my life in tornado country, and in those places, Mother Nature just kicks man's ass. You can't even think of controlling it, even if you're the supervillian U.S. Military. It does what it wants, and has forever.

I remember a movie from the 30's about a big-ass tornado ....... let's see ..... oh yeah "Wizard of Oz".

[Joe Hillshoist]

Thats why weather control is such a stupid term.

The weather is one global dynamic system. Its huge and is driven by things like the 1000 Watt per metre2 of energy that the sun beams onto the surface of the earth.

[82_28]

So eyeno, why would these mysterious supervillians be raining big-ass tornadoes down upon Joplin Missouri?

Well, it's all nothing more than speculation, but it's the "small market" thing myself and 8bit brought up the other day. Tornadoes have always happened in this region of the US. Fair enough. But no, that circular shit around the radar sites never has. And I have never seen this kind of destruction ever. And focused around a hospital as the only standing structure? The destruction is too complete. There is something up. Take that or leave it, but that's my opinion.

[wintler2]

Thats why weather control is such a stupid term.

The weather is one global dynamic system. Its huge and is driven by things like the 1000 Watt per metre2 of energy that the sun beams onto the surface of the earth.

Yep. And a mere megawatt (100,000 watt) scale radio antenna pointing 40km from scene of the action is supposed to do something. Uh huh, and i'm going to change the channel on every tv in the next town by pointing my magic remote [i know its magic, the bloke who sold it told me], lol.

[Joe Hillshoist]

I dunno ... if you can find a way to point the beam then you can drive a low into a hurricane by heating the water in the path of the low system then it could be theoretically possible to create a hurricane or cyclone.

Its a fairly simple system and all you need to do is try and feed into the feedbackloop till its self sustaining. There's a threshold where the heat differential starts to force the system.

Its not a huge input, but it can have an effect, like pushing a car to get a bit more momentum if you're trying to roll start it on a hill.

Its adding to systems that are already in motion, but the only way I can think of that process fitting whats happened in the US lately is heating the gulf of mexico, and the amount of energy needed there ... its not like trying to heat a few sq km of water in front of a cyclone.

[23]

Some background info: