The Arab Summer: All Out War?

[lupercal]

^ He says in the interview that a key motive is getting control of their oil and stealing their sovereign wealth funds, and if what's happening in Libya is any indication he's right. I've heard cheerful reports on NPR about the clever ways banksters are planning to steal Libya's sovereign wealth funds invested in the US, which are substantial, and apparently they've stolen quite a lot already, like that $1.2 billion by Goldman Sachs "lost" in six months. Here's another bil that a French outfit managed to "lose":

Bloomberg - Jun 2, 2011

Societe Generale (GLE) SA designed a $1 billion bet on its own shares for Libya’s sovereign wealth fund in March 2008, and the investment had fallen 72 percent in value by the middle of last year, the Financial Times reported, citing documents that it’s reviewed.

The transaction involved a $1 billion note, repayable to the Libyan Investment Authority in 2018, that would reflect the performance of an equivalent investment in SocGen’s shares; the bank told the Libyans that, while an equity investment in dollars would be subject to currency fluctuations, a derivatives transaction would hedge that risk, the newspaper said.

The episode is an example of how prominent European and U.S. financial companies did business with President Muammar Qaddafi’s Libya in ways that, whatever the benefits or lack of them for Libya, generated substantial fees for themselves, the FT said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-0 ... ports.html

Coincidence I'm sure.

At first I was thinking "why is the US, UK, Italy and France pushing so aggressively for war on Libya?" Afterall, all four were big business buddies of Ghadafy as of even January of this year.
I mean if we are to take their criteria at face value, Syria deserves "Western humanitarian intervention" more. Aw, but see...it's not war technically, it's "kinetic military action".
In the last week, a number of articles revealing mysterious bank actions with Libya have come out as you've pointed out and a clearer picture begins to emerge. Why is it that if there is any leftist alt media coverage against the war, it's simply from the perspective of being against US military action for the sake of military action(which I of course am against too) but...they don't go into the larger implications and reasoning. Actually I take that back, I seem to recall a number of stories a couple months ago about banks getting really tidy with the rebel government, as China seems to also be doing now.

For awhile the theme was "popular grassroots uprisings fueled by social media"(Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, etc) Now, it seems to be all out war. What's your take on Yemen? This is where the Gub'ment claims al Qaeda central now is and where all the alleged "terror plots" comes from. I suspect something much deeper is at play

Yeah a lot of it seems engineered to a) muscle China out of these markets and b) control oil supplies and Yemen seems to figure into both calculations. From an Engdahl article on Global Research:

The Yemen Hidden Agenda: Behind the Al-Qaeda Scenarios, A Strategic Oil Transit Chokepoint
Global Research, January 5, 2010


The strategic significance of the region between Yemen and Somalia becomes the point of geopolitical interest. It is the site of Bab el-Mandab, one of what the US Government lists as seven strategic world oil shipping chokepoints. The US Government Energy Information Agency states that "closure of the Bab el-Mandab could keep tankers from the Persian Gulf from reaching the Suez Canal/Sumed pipeline complex, diverting them around the southern tip of Africa. The Strait of Bab el-Mandab is a chokepoint between the horn of Africa and the Middle East, and a strategic link between the Mediterranean Sea and Indian Ocean." [9]

Bab el-Mandab, between Yemen, Djibouti, and Eritrea connects the Red Sea with the Gulf of Aden and the Arabian Sea. Oil and other exports from the Persian Gulf must pass through Bab el-Mandab before entering the Suez Canal. In 2006, the Energy Department in Washington reported that an estimated 3.3 million barrels a day of oil flowed through this narrow waterway to Europe, the United States, and Asia. Most oil, or some 2.1 million barrels a day, goes north through the Bab el-Mandab to the Suez/Sumed complex into the Mediterranean.

An excuse for a US or NATO militarization of the waters around Bab el-Mandab would give Washington another major link in its pursuit of control of the seven most critical oil chokepoints around the world, a major part of any future US strategy aimed at denying oil flows to China, the EU or any region or country that opposes US policy. Given that significant flows of Saudi oil pass through Bab el-Mandab, a US military control there would serve to deter the Saudi Kingdom from becoming serious about transacting future oil sales with China or others no longer in dollars, as was recently reported by UK Independent journalist Robert Fisk.

It would also be in a position to threaten China’s oil transport from Port Sudan on the Red Sea just north of Bab el-Mandab, a major lifeline in China’s national energy needs.

In addition to its geopolitical position as a major global oil transit chokepoint, Yemen is reported to hold some of the world’s greatest untapped oil reserves. Yemen’s Masila Basin and Shabwa Basin are reported by international oil companies to contain "world class discoveries."[10]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... context=va

Oil and stategery, who could have predicted.

[Spiro C. Thiery]

There was never any coincidence about it. The forces creeating the popular revolts and instability in the middle east are fairly well known in a generalized sense. Please don't trivialize the brave popular revolts in the middle east as being all stage managed by the invisible, all powerful cabal you believe is behind everything that happens in the world. Human beings actually still have some agency to alter their circumstances, you know?

So they'd be known in a "general sense" but one should not generalize about them. Check.

[wintler2]

While Indonesia descended into total anarchy in the late 1990's, and later Thailand.

what utter bullshit.

Oh really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... esignation

Indonesia got rolled by the financiers, hundreds of millions got poorer and got cross, a dictator was dumped and a sort of an election held.
Thats a LONG LONG way from total anarchy and trivialises what was a largely peaceful democratic transition in one of the largest countries in the world ruled by a US-allied thug.

Its the same "total anarchy" bogeyman our media and politicians tried to sell us on while Mubarak was shooting his citizens only a few months ago, are you aware of who's interests your gonzo prose is serving?

[brainpanhandler]

There was never any coincidence about it. The forces creeating the popular revolts and instability in the middle east are fairly well known in a generalized sense. Please don't trivialize the brave popular revolts in the middle east as being all stage managed by the invisible, all powerful cabal you believe is behind everything that happens in the world. Human beings actually still have some agency to alter their circumstances, you know?

So they'd be known in a "general sense" but one should not generalize about them. Check.

Er, no. I thought I was pretty clear. One should not speak of the popular uprisings in the middle east as though it was a coincidence. Besides the long, complicated historical record leading up to current events there is also the simple fact of people purposefully rebelling. Generalize all you wish, just don't call it coincidence. Is that clear enough?

[82_28]

There was never any coincidence about it. The forces creeating the popular revolts and instability in the middle east are fairly well known in a generalized sense. Please don't trivialize the brave popular revolts in the middle east as being all stage managed by the invisible, all powerful cabal you believe is behind everything that happens in the world. Human beings actually still have some agency to alter their circumstances, you know?

So they'd be known in a "general sense" but one should not generalize about them. Check.

Er, no. I thought I was pretty clear. One should not speak of the popular uprisings in the middle east as though it was a coincidence. Besides the long, complicated historical record leading up to current events there is also the simple fact of people purposefully rebelling. Generalize all you wish, just don't call it coincidence. Is that clear enough?

Uh, well if we're going to all agree that the MIGHTY AMERICANS and other westerners can get psychologically fucked with, I would imagine it just about anywhere on Earth happening as well. Unless you haven't been psychologically fucked with yourself by propagandistic world events lo these many years, you are very lucky and I would like to pitch a tent on your unconnected land.

[Spiro C. Thiery]

There was never any coincidence about it. The forces creeating the popular revolts and instability in the middle east are fairly well known in a generalized sense. Please don't trivialize the brave popular revolts in the middle east as being all stage managed by the invisible, all powerful cabal you believe is behind everything that happens in the world. Human beings actually still have some agency to alter their circumstances, you know?

So they'd be known in a "general sense" but one should not generalize about them. Check.

Er, no. I thought I was pretty clear. One should not speak of the popular uprisings in the middle east as though it was a coincidence. Besides the long, complicated historical record leading up to current events there is also the simple fact of people purposefully rebelling. Generalize all you wish, just don't call it coincidence. Is that clear enough?

Your condescending tone does not do much to validate the logic of your complaint. Combined with the do-goody "stop belittling the bravery" strawman, as a matter of fact, it makes the argument sound like the kind of cruise-missile exceptionalism which makes all of this even less of a coincidence.

There now seems to be no coincidence that virtually every single Arab Islamic nation since January from North Africa to the Middle East have erupted into revolutions and chaos.

So this 8bit turn of phrase notwithstanding (and in spite of that unfortunate choice of words), no one - and I repeat for clarity - no one has said that anything here is a coincidence.

[lupercal]

I repeat for clarity - no one has said that anything here is a coincidence.

Bingo. In fact that's the whole point of 8bit's thread. But from the agonized reaction you'd think he said God was dead. Come to think of it that wouldn't bother anyone here so why the long knives come out every time someone points out this fairly obvious state of affairs is a mystery.

Note to grammar police: the sentence "One should not speak of the popular uprisings in the middle east as though it was a coincidence" is ungrammatical in at least two ways, and in my experience, ungrammatical writing is a sign of disorganized thinking. Just my two euros.

[brainpanhandler]

In response to:

There now seems to be no coincidence....

I wrote:

There was never any coincidence about it.

Your condescending tone does not do much to validate the logic of your complaint.

Your logic does not do much to validate the logic of your counter complaint. So there.

Bingo. In fact that's the whole point of 8bit's thread. But from the agonized reaction you'd think he said God was dead. Come to think of it that wouldn't bother anyone here so why the long knives come out every time someone points out this fairly obvious state of affairs is a mystery.

That God is dead?

[lupercal]

. . . and speaking of Yemen, scalp #3:

Yemen rejoices as Ali Abdullah Saleh flies abroad for treatment
3:57PM BST 05 Jun 2011

A third Arab nation was on the verge of overthrowing a long-serving dictator on Sunday night as Yemen's President Ali Abdullah Saleh was flown abroad for medical treatment following an attack on his presidential palace.


Activists behind the Arab Spring movement that has inspired protests throughout the Middle East and toppled regimes in Egypt and Tunisia celebrated a third scalp on Sunday facepaint courtesy CIA art department, and yes they have an art department.

A power struggle was underway within Yemen among loyalists and opposition rivals after the forced departure of its wounded president left the country facing potential disintegration and civil war.

Ali Abdullah Saleh, who has held office for 33 years, underwent an operation in Riyadh to remove shrapnel from his chest following an artillery attack on his palace in the Yemeni capital Sana'a last Friday.

The president was also expected to receive plastic surgery after suffering burn marks to his face and neck.

Activists behind the Arab Spring movement that has inspired protests throughout the Middle East and toppled regimes in Egypt and Tunisia celebrated a third scalp on Sunday. cute huh?

"This signifies the fall of the third Arab authoritarian regime and will give a massive boost to those fighting in Syria and Libya," said 27-year-old Egyptian banker, Hussein Khalil, who was among protesters who brought down Egypt's president. yeah I'll bet the banksters are loving it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... tment.html

[Spiro C. Thiery]

Generalize all you wish, just don't call it coincidence. Is that clear enough?

Again, no one did. Anyway, it was already clear that that was not your complaint to begin with from this:

There was never any coincidence about it. The forces creeating the popular revolts and instability in the middle east are fairly well known in a generalized sense. Please don't trivialize the brave popular revolts in the middle east as being all stage managed by the invisible, all powerful cabal you believe is behind everything that happens in the world. Human beings actually still have some agency to alter their circumstances, you know?

You can pretend that the prime motivator of your comment was 8bit's use of the word "coincidence". And, yes, you said as much. But that was not the gist of your complaint. You were clearly aggravated by the suggestion that anyone or anything other than righteous bravery is at play in this uprising. And that I called you out on your contradiction within that same comment has led you to focus on the "coincidence" factor, which is at best an implication in the original post, not a claim.

[brainpanhandler]

Generalize all you wish, just don't call it coincidence. Is that clear enough?

Again, no one did. Anyway, it was already clear that that was not your complaint to begin with from this:

There was never any coincidence about it. The forces creeating the popular revolts and instability in the middle east are fairly well known in a generalized sense. Please don't trivialize the brave popular revolts in the middle east as being all stage managed by the invisible, all powerful cabal you believe is behind everything that happens in the world. Human beings actually still have some agency to alter their circumstances, you know?

You can pretend that the prime motivator of your comment was 8bit's use of the word "coincidence". And, yes, you said as much. But that was not the gist of your complaint. You were clearly aggravated by the suggestion that anyone or anything other than righteous bravery is at play in this uprising. And that I called you out on your contradiction within that same comment has led you to focus on the "coincidence" factor, which is at best an implication in the original post, not a claim.

Er, no. Again. I feel stupid having to cut and paste from the same page, but you prompted me to to clarify for you with this exchange:

There was never any coincidence about it. The forces creeating the popular revolts and instability in the middle east are fairly well known in a generalized sense. Please don't trivialize the brave popular revolts in the middle east as being all stage managed by the invisible, all powerful cabal you believe is behind everything that happens in the world. Human beings actually still have some agency to alter their circumstances, you know?

So they'd be known in a "general sense" but one should not generalize about them. Check.

Er, no. I thought I was pretty clear. One should not speak of the popular uprisings in the middle east as though it was a coincidence. Besides the long, complicated historical record leading up to current events there is also the simple fact of people purposefully rebelling. Generalize all you wish, just don't call it coincidence. Is that clear enough?

Now if you are too stupid to figure that out then I am done with you.

[Spiro C. Thiery]

Er, no. Again. I feel stupid having to cut and paste from the same page, but you prompted me to to clarify for you with this exchange:

No amount of "er"s or "uh"s or the even more vacuous "sheesh"es, "lol"s, or "wow, just wow"s will change what is clear in the exchange you just reposted. If it isn't clear to you, so be it. Still, not even once did anyone on this thread say that the uprisings are a coincidence.

Now if you are too stupid to figure that out then I am done with you.

Er, !

[brainpanhandler]

Anyone care to guess what's coming down the pipeline, and for what reasons?

No. And I really think you should stop predicting what the evil, invisiible overlords have in store for us as well. THEY do not have that much power. OK? So stop assigning it to them. If I had a nickle for every time you said you had a feeling something dark and spooky was "coming down the pipeline', well, I'd have a handfull nickles. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

There now seems to be no coincidence that virtually every single Arab Islamic nation since January from North Africa to the Middle East have erupted into revolutions and chaos.

There was never any coincidence about it. The forces creeating the popular revolts and instability in the middle east are fairly well known in a generalized sense. Please don't trivialize the brave popular revolts in the middle east as being all stage managed by the invisible, all powerful cabal you believe is behind everything that happens in the world. Human beings actually still have some agency to alter their circumstances, you know?

The human heart and condition in every person opposing Western backed autocrat/dictatorships is genuine, noone argues that. And I myself cringe at the idea that the whole situation is either supplanted or co-opted by Western power mongers. When studying the youth led "OTPOR!" peaceful resistance to Slobo and his murderous reign in Serbia circa 2000, I was saddened to find out the CIA was backing the whole thing. And that didn't come from some Alex Jones sight, but listening to NPR, reading PBS, etc.

Thanks for the clarification 8bit. Obviously I don't disagree with the idea that conflict in the world is often instigated and managed by powerful forces or that genuine popular movements and revolts can be infiltrated and co-opted and manipulated. It's pretty difficult from 4,000 miles away through the lens of western media, even npr or pbs which are only marginally better news sources, to figure out what is really going on when it actually is going on.

Since the trolls/so-like-trolls-there's-no-meaningful-difference seem to want to act as though they are aggrieved on your behalf I'd like to clarify that I have occasionally taken issue with your ideas and the way you present them but I have come to trust over the years that your heart and intentions are in the right place. I think based on your reactions, which have always been calm and devoid of hysteria, you understand that, as clearly evidenced by our exchange here. So cheers man.



.

[brainpanhandler]

Just a minor point of clarification:

you don't dog on free speculation as what happened to 8bit, in the thread that has been locked.

Clearly this thread has not been locked.


viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32297&start=15

[lupercal]

^ the only thing worse than a paid stooge is an unpaid one so put that in your bedpan and handle it.