How to undermine RI w/out breaking any rules?

[crikkett]

Let's keep personalities out of the conversation, otherwise it's not a beneficial thread. And it could be.

Hey I thought you were suspended.

Searcher, Jeff's forum is probably here so that he can hash out material for his writing. That's a common reason for authors to host a discussion forum. I'm honored to be in his presence (no brownnose smilie?)

Also, I've noticed how some of us have started linking to our own works in our sig files.

My own sig file links to a bit of advice that was spewing from 82_28's potty-mouth a couple of pages ago: how to better enjoy RI by putting disruptors on 'ignore'. I think that if more people adopted this practice then bullshit posts would never gain enough mass to metasticize and the level of discourse here would be raised.

I would advise you, 82_28, to take your own advice. Maybe that way you won't be so angry, and maybe you'll stop swearing at people, and then I won't have to keep reminding myself that you can be a fair contributor and deserve my attention.

Thanks Jeff, for reminding him about the rules against profanity directed at other users.

Edited to tweak language because I can't leave well enough alone...

[crikkett]

Another point of discussion for Searcher: I wonder if the difference in what we're posting is related to the focus of our culture at large: during Bush's term a lot of people were thinking magically. The thrift shop I volunteer at sees what was popular "last season" and in 2009 and 2010 (2009 especially) we had a huge increase in donations of "magical" merchandise and books on fortean topics and spiritual enlightenment. The fact that people are giving these things up leads me to think that overall, the cultural focus has changed. Also, we're having the damndest time moving sci fi, probably because of the "hauntological" opinion that we're living what used to be sci fi.

PS wintler2: we're all melodramatic, but not all of us all of the time.

[Searcher08]

Another point of discussion for Searcher: I wonder if the difference in what we're posting is related to the focus of our culture at large: during Bush's term a lot of people were thinking magically. The thrift shop I volunteer at sees what was popular "last season" and in 2009 and 2010 (2009 especially) we had a huge increase in donations of "magical" merchandise and books on fortean topics and spiritual enlightenment. The fact that people are giving these things up leads me to think that overall, the cultural focus has changed. Also, we're having the damndest time moving sci fi, probably because of the "hauntological" opinion that we're living what used to be sci fi.

PS wintler2: we're all melodramatic, but not all of us all of the time.

A thought after looking at the volcano thread again....

An Analyst will consider the introduction of a Speculators material as very bad manners based on content of message -it's lack of focus or clarity etc will be received in as visceral way as if a person came in and through a glass of red wine over them - and will be very angry at the Speculator for doing this.

The Speculator will consider the anger of the Analyst as coming straight out of left field, a completely unprovoked and very personal assault, literally as if they were walking along in a group then one of the group shoves them to the ground for no reason. Their anger will be personal, they will experience the behaviour as unprovoked bullying or aggression



Hey, crikkett, THAT is fascinating info - and my intuition says it will be relevant to the thread -
If sci-fi isnt moving, what are the things in ThriftLand that are moving?

[barracuda]

I hate to say it, but at this point I'm kind of working my way towards sympathising with 82_28 on this one. I don't think it's entirely appropriate that there's a thread the entire point of which seems to be that he's not smart enough to be a poster here. It's elitist and counterproductive. And in the absence of any real evidence, the insinuation that several individuals have joined together to "undermine" the forum in some way is simply and clearly in contravention of the agent-baiting rule. I find it hard to castigate 82_28 too severely for his profanity here. I'd be fucking pissed if I were him.

I apologise for my limited involvement of the last few pages. I have a small flu, though I doubt I would have been watching it through the night anyway. It seemed as if you gentlemen needed to get some things off your chests, but that's done now, and the results might have been the better acheived through some form of physical competition, perhaps a drinking contest or a thumb-wrestling tournament, neither of which are, unfortunately, available in this venue.

This thread has provided evidence that there are among you those with great moderator potential, whom I'll remember when time comes for me to turn in my keys and make a recommendation to our fair host. I would simply advise you that there have been real threats to this board, and persons on this board, that have warranted the most serious consideration. This case is probably not one of those.

[Luther Blissett]

I think I, too, have difficulty parsing individual posters's personalities on here and rather just take everything as information. I like the current system of bumping threads on a single subject (Sarah Palin is a fine example) so that all our data is consolidated into one source. It gets a little daunting when going back to search for data, but that's what the search function is for, I guess.

I really am sort of clueless about what's being discussed in this thread. Maybe it's about me and the deep web.

[brainpanhandler]

This thread has provided evidence that there are among you those with great moderator potential, whom I'll remember when time comes for me to turn in my keys and make a recommendation to our fair host.

I agree that Nordic would be an excellent candidate.

But seriously, searcher08 seems like mod material.

And once you lay down your mod duties will you be returning to your former acerbically witty ways? I miss that Barracuda.

I would simply advise you that there have been real threats to this board, and persons on this board, that have warranted the most serious consideration. This case is probably not one of those.

Probably not.

_________________________________________________________________

Thanks for publicly standing by your principles. I'd be terribly disappointed any other way.

[vanlose kid]

...


A couple of months ago, I did an Excel based comparative analysis of front pages stories, views and replies - regarding an intuition that RI had changed over the last couple of years from being quite diverse in its subject matter wrt 'Fortean' subjects to being much more focused on gender issues, current news and events.

and broadly speaking, that seems to be the case.

So (and I guess this is directed at Jeff) two useful questions would seem to surface here...

A Purpose Question
What is the purpose of RI? - what does it DO? - why have it?
(no Motherhood and ApplePie statements , plz )
and
A Vision Question
What specifically do you want to see happen with it in the future?
What would real success for RI look / sound / feel like to you?


My greatest concern about RI is that events really ARE moving faster and faster in the 'real world' and RI will have to adapt or die, a prospect about which I am currently 'cautiously pessimistic'.

good post. re this: i don't really see that divide between the fortean and the mundane. in my experience of Ri. from Jeff's blog to the forum, the two (and i'm only making the distinction for pedagogical purposes) are tied, or reflected in each other. one of the great things about Jeff's writing is the fact that he actuall manages to show the relations that most miss. it's a yin yang thing.

apart from that things do seem to be moving faster. and that too i think reflects on how info dissemination on the net is having an effect in meat-space. i do think people are wising up. maybe that's the optimist in me, but i'm in agreement with some who view the recent uprisings as being other than managed from central casting. specifically because their reactions are way behind the beat. also, i don't think "they" are that powerful. they never were in history. i fail to see why they should be now, so that show in my reactions to posts and discussions. which again doesn't mean i dismiss central casting's role. they do have a role. only, they are not as omnipotent as some would like them to be. in my view.

just to say that the dichotomy isn't one unless you insist on making it one.

edit: i'm kind of careful about stepping into the fortean discussions but that's mostly because i prefer talking about things i know something about. otherwise i just read and hope to learn. i suspect there are a few of us who do that.

*

[vanlose kid]

on further thought and just to sum things up:

there are proponents of the view that "all the people (sheeple) are being fooled all the time". i find that hardly credible.

i think that, in part, is what bph and wintler2 object to. and in that i find myself in agreement with them.

edit: don't know about any concerted effort at undermining the forum though. it's more of a disagreement. cf., myself and lupercal.

*

[lupercal]

I would simply advise you that there have been real threats to this board, and persons on this board, that have warranted the most serious consideration. This case is probably not one of those.

Probably not.

As long as you're graciously admitting that you faked the whole thing to win an argument you roundly lost in another thread, I think it would be a good idea to apologize to 82 and 8bit for falsely casting aspersions on them. 82 stuck his neck out and in return has got shat on for six inane pages, including by mod and owner, and in my view that's a disgrace but hey that's just me.

Since I don't expect any apology will be forthcoming I'd like to apologize on your behalf and also to Nordic. Those are three of my favorite guys here and I can't believe they've been hung out to dry for two days. Seriously, that's weak. So, sorry guys, you didn't deserve it.

[barracuda]

82 stuck his neck out and in return has got shat on for six inane pages, including by mod and owner, and in my view that's a disgrace but hey that's just me.

Excuse me: what?

I think I'd like to apologise on your behalf to me.

[MacCruiskeen]

I'm in fucking favour of even more rambling fucking inconsequential unedited fucking posts full of free fucking assocation and innumerable fucking swearwords and unsolicited personal fucking information essentially telling the fucking world only one thing, ie what a great fucking guy I am and how anyone who fucking disagrees with me or even fucking ventures to voice the sligtest fucking criticism of me is a total fucking facist asshole.

Beacuse thats what make's this fucking board the fucking indispensible asset it is.

What part of RIGOUROS dont you understand, motherfuckers??

Fuck.

[lupercal]

^ If you disklike someone's style, address that issue. This does NOT address that issue; it creates a completely false one, and an unbelievably corrosive one. Don't play games. And b okay you said you were sick but basically you washed your hands and asked what is truth like a certain Pontius Pilate but fine, maybe I misread you. But I see no reason this thing had to go on for two days.

[barracuda]

Lupercal, look at the time stamps on the posts from last night. If you think I stay up til three o'clock in the morning stressing over a thread like this even in the most robust health, you're sadly mistaken.

I accept your proxy apology.

[Spiro C. Thiery]

How to undermine RI w/out breaking any rules? Simple.

1) Join, preferrably a team of 2 or 3 so as to be able to reinforce each other or create ersatz exchanges.

2) Post prolifically, preferrably by starting lots of new threads so General discussion constantly churns over.

3) Write gibberish, pretentious, self contradictory posts that are quite literally unintelligible.

4) Find the wedge issues in the community and then exploit them.

5) Harass key individuals who by their erudition and insight are natural leaders on the board so as to drive them out.

6) All the while cultivating a persona of being the good RI citizen innocently seeking the truth with fellow travelers.

7) When criticism arises take cover by pretending to be aggreived and appealing to people's compassion and natural tendency to protect an underdog. (Oh yah, you're an underdog)

You could follow this formula for years without any interference. It's net effect is to dumb down the conversation, drive away more thoughtful members and prevent more thoughtful members from joining or speaking.

How to tell the difference?

This is actually brilliant. I would only add:
8 - Hide in plain sight. Post a list explicating how to achieve your goal; follow up by doing 1, 4, 5, and 6 almost immediately; be oblivious to the irony of 5 because you're too erudite to care; when necessary, invoke 7 in as adulating a fashion as possible in a transparent attempt to curry favour with someone who might give you just enough authority to finish things off once and for all.

You see how that works?

[Joe Hillshoist]

Well, in a something a little longer than a phrase, Jeff, it's that this thread was begun because I came to 8bit's "aid" because BPH is not nice to people like myself and 8bit. I have continuously called for people to chill the fuck out. I have made my love of RI and all her people known. Yet, this is not good enough to some. I have done nothing here, I follow all "guidestones" and I just think that this thread is bullshit, because it is "accusing" me and others of being in some sort of "cahoots" in order to "undermine" RI. This, I do not appreciate. That is why I will be "out" very soon if some of this hatred is not curtailed very soon. This thread was essentially directed at me, because BPH saw fit to dog on 8bit's back of the napkin speculation, which I happen to appreciate and then the thread in question, being this one, was made as an accusation of any of us looking after one another is "undermining" RI. There is only one provocateur here, well maybe two. See, IanEye's comment above.

The simple, clinical, assholeness of BPH and Wintler2 is what is in question. They just won't let some of us be. And that is my problem.

Imagine, just for a second, that what is happening here is not necessarily PERSONAL, or with intent, but an emergence of dynamics that are playing out at a far deeper level than we might realise. I have seen a similar dynamic being played out on other message boards and it seems to come down to:


One set of people speculate and think as they write, so engage in relatively little editing before pressing the Submit button - "the Speculators"
Another set of people analyse - and think, then they write - and engage in a LOT of editing before pressing Submit - "the Analysts"

Speculators perceive Analysts as (at worst) intuition intolerant, cognitive fascists with a flavour of overbearing arrogance verging on bullying

Analysts perceive Speculators as (at worst) deliberately unfocused, time wasting, mental masturbators getting in the way of real rigourous conversation / debate.




What ideas do you have for making this dynamic more constructive?


@Jeff

Getting people to reflect on it is certainly a good start Searcher.