BBC: Down 'the rabbit hole of conspiracism' (Jonathan Kay)

[MacCruiskeen]

As the tenth anniversary approaches, the BBC starts catapulting the propaganda, and typically shabby, shoddy stuff it is too.

The four-minute audio interview at the link was broadcast on the Today show, a very popular daily "news" magazine.

Down 'the rabbit hole of conspiracism'

Why do sensible people sometimes believe the most unlikely conspiracy theories?

"Not all modern conspiracy theories are anti-Semitic - however the basic structure has been replicated in all sorts of conspiracy theories", says Jonathan Kay.

The columnist Jonathan Kay, author of Among the Truthers: A Journey Through America's Growing Conspiracist Underground, has been investigating the phenomena for two and a half years.

In all that time, he told Evan Davis, "I can confess that I did not win a single argument with a conspiracy theorist".

The quality that binds conspiracy theorists together, he explained, was distrust - of government, media and organised religion.

"There is an impulse to align ideology with facts. They want to make the world as they imagine it appear as the world as it is."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/ne ... 506368.stm

Tha fact that he never won a single argument proves only one thing, of course: that "conspiracy theorists" are "impervious" to "rational argument".

"There is an impulse to align ideology with facts. They want to make the world as they imagine it appear as the world as it is."

What a perfect and admirably succinct description of the imperialist mindset.

[NeonLX]

Wow...it's sad to see that the UK version of The Toady Show is as bad as the yank show that goes by the same name.

[MacCruiskeen]

The BBC's in a terrible state, and has been for decades. Ever since Thatcher, it's been getting steadily worse. It's now packed with toadies and timeservers and careful careerists.

The Glory Days (which didn't just happen to be the Sixties) are long gone:



In a recent interview, John Cleese recalled "the nicest thing anyone ever said to me about the show". Which was this:

"After watching it, you couldn't take anything on the TV seriously, least of all the news."

[Stephen Morgan]

I watched Panorama the other day. Well, the start of it. It was just a long parade of people denouncing the unemployed and advocating tough measures, not the sort of thing you'd expect from a famous documentary and investigative journalism strand.

[Joe Hillshoist]

BBC been taken over by Murdoch too Steve?

[gnosticheresy_2]

The BBC's in a terrible state, and has been for decades. Ever since Thatcher, it's been getting steadily worse. It's now packed with toadies and timeservers and careful careerists.

The Glory Days (which didn't just happen to be the Sixties) are long gone:



In a recent interview, John Cleese recalled "the nicest thing anyone ever said to me about the show". Which was this:

"After watching it, you couldn't take anything on the TV seriously, least of all the news."

There's still loads of good stuff on the BBC, but BBC News, BBC1, R1, R2 are godawful.

[blanc]

A few years back (3,4,5? not sure exactly) a former Today journalist prepared a report on on of the organised abuse cases this 'conspiracist' blathers on about in general terms at each opportunity, and leaving us, expressed determination to get it exposed. Of course it wasn't. I wonder if there was a conspiracy? Or just a lot of pressure to present more interesting material in the time slot, like this stuff about how conspiracists refuse to see the clear stupidity of their ideas.

[Hammer of Los]

R4 is the worst.

Don't get me started.

Seriously.

They're all ghastly.

Them and the bleedin' Guardian.

I have to gird my loins to endure any of the drivel coming from that lot.

I guess that means I distrust the media, therefore I am a conspiracy theorist.

Of course, it follows that if I trust the media (ha!), I am therefore sane, rational and normal.

"Trust us!" They say.

Of course, when someone says, "Trust me," the first thing I do is guess they are lying their pants off.

It's a bit like when a recorded message calls my home phone and says, "Don't hang up.." I know what I do as soon as I hear that phrase. In fact, I never get as far as hearing what they say next.



But, I would never suggest, for instance that any journalists or others working for the BBC or the Guardian, are spooked-up, as it were. I couldn't possibly say that.

I might though, if I were feeling extremely bold, suggest that, at least sometimes, and possibly far more often, such organs appear to act as vehicles for propaganda of the most misleading and agenda driven kind, in what seems to be the systematic management of public opinion, in pursuit of certain policy agendas.

Thank heavens that child was a road accident victim though!

Oh, the appaling lies of the Gaddafi regime! Oh the horrors!

Everyone knows Nato bombing campaigns are so precise, not a single innocent person is harmed!

I mean, I could go check how much tonnage of ordnance Nato has dropped on Libya. Or how many separate bombing raids there have been. Probably quite a few. But all that is to protect and save civilians, it doesn't harm them! Oh, how could anyone be so stupid as to be deceived by the transparent lies put out by the Gaddafi regime! Thank heavens I have the BBC and the Guardian to put me right. It's nice to have someone you can trust.

[Searcher08]

HoL,

I think the same - I no longer regard the BBC as having a culture that is trustworthy in any way. Just comparing the coverage of the BBC with that of Channel 4 for the Egyptian uprising - it was like they were at different events, with the BBC basically repeating Obama talking points versus Channel 4 reporters getting threatened by the 'authorities' for investigating what was going on...
I always respect reporters who put themselves in harms way.

Interestingly, a friend who frequently dealt with Ministers in the UK in an IT context said that the Civil Service policy makers were actually NOT aged 'Whitehall Mandarins' but actually 23 year old ultra PC careerist economics 1sts from Oxbridge with absolutely no sense of humour as their defining characteristic - they would not take any major policy decision without checking it out with The Guardian - he said that place was the Gold Standard.

My own take is that The Guardian is probably much more damaging to UK society than any other paper - it is the epicentre of fascistic Scientism, which is very very focused on becoming more influential throughout the BBC. The idea of being 'Governed by the Scientists' is getting a LOT of airtime at the BBC at the moment, with a recent lecture by the BBC's answer to Carl Sagan calling for programmes to be 'evidence based' and ones which were not to be forced to have a warning about this. The lack of wisdom this guy showed regarding political power in action beggared belief. He was an idiot with a high IQ

[Wombaticus Rex]

I love stuff like this, because it's such a beautiful distillation of conformity and entrainment patterns.

What I find especially compelling is the fact that at no point do these kind of pieces examine their own beliefs, assumptions and narratives. This makes for remarkably flexible antibody propaganda -- you could sit 5 people with very different beliefs down together to watch this and each would come away a little more secure in their own reality tunnel. It's an "us" without any actual content at all, because this is strictly an exercise in What Not To Think.

Anyways, really enjoyed this, thanks for the heads-up.

I would like to someday do a documentary exactly like this about rich and powerful people, political leaders and captains of industry, and examine how utterly insane they are. I understand why you guys resent this kind of material so much, but I really don't, because we're all fucking nutters and consensus reality is no exception.

[hanshan]

I love stuff like this, because it's such a beautiful distillation of conformity and entrainment patterns.

What I find especially compelling is the fact that at no point do these kind of pieces examine their own beliefs, assumptions and narratives. This makes for remarkably flexible antibody propaganda -- you could sit 5 people with very different beliefs down together to watch this and each would come away a little more secure in their own reality tunnel. It's an "us" without any actual content at all, because this is strictly an exercise in What Not To Think.

Anyways, really enjoyed this, thanks for the heads-up.

I would like to someday do a documentary exactly like this about rich and powerful people, political leaders and captains of industry, and examine how utterly insane they are. I understand why you guys resent this kind of material so much, but I really don't, because we're all fucking nutters and consensus reality is no exception.

Excellent precis, tx. & on the mark...



...

[Jeff]

FWIW, Jonathan Kay on Canada's new far-right and virtually unviewed Sun-TV:

[IanEye]

The BBC's in a terrible state, and has been for decades.

fair enough, Mac.

but I was listening to the BBC the other day, and they were kind enough to mention to me that one of your beloved Daleks (aka Roy Skelton) had passed away.



Zippy voice actor Roy Skelton dies aged 79

come to think of it, I should probably add this "rabbit hole" article to my Alice thread in the Lounge....

[Stephen Morgan]

BBC been taken over by Murdoch too Steve?

Not quite, just been corrupted by the forces of evil. Murdoch still wants rid of them because they're competition. Been trying to steal their funding and so on.

[Stephen Morgan]

R4 is the worst.

Too true. Their resident psych-lad was for many years, I think still is, the discredited plagiarist and fraudster Raj Persaud. Any radio station with Raj Persaud, Jeremy Hardy and Woman's Hour is gonna get on my nerves.

Don't get me started.

Seriously.

They're all ghastly.

Them and the bleedin' Guardian.

Tell me abaht it! And another opportunity to link to 50,000 editions of the imperialist, warmongering, hate-filled Guardian newspaper.

I have to gird my loins to endure any of the drivel coming from that lot.

I guess that means I distrust the media, therefore I am a conspiracy theorist.

Of course, it follows that if I trust the media (ha!), I am therefore sane, rational and normal.

"Trust us!" They say.

Of course, when someone says, "Trust me," the first thing I do is guess they are lying their pants off.

It's a bit like when a recorded message calls my home phone and says, "Don't hang up.." I know what I do as soon as I hear that phrase. In fact, I never get as far as hearing what they say next.

I never receive such calls. It was only yesterday that I got my first Jehovah's Witness at the door. I did consider trying to talk them into my brand of Christianity, as they had so obligingly wandered into my web, but then I realised I don't know what they believe so couldn't argue against it. But I digress.

But, I would never suggest, for instance that any journalists or others working for the BBC or the Guardian, are spooked-up, as it were. I couldn't possibly say that.

The Guardian don't need to be, they're just a business in league with the APAX private equity consortium. But, I refer you to the Christmas Tree Files, re the BBC being spookificated.

I might though, if I were feeling extremely bold, suggest that, at least sometimes, and possibly far more often, such organs appear to act as vehicles for propaganda of the most misleading and agenda driven kind, in what seems to be the systematic management of public opinion, in pursuit of certain policy agendas.

They're mostly just lazy and incompetent, and I have no respect for the incompetent. They spend all their time repackaging press releases and agency press. Advertisers and marketing men decide what goes on the news by writing it for them, so the actual "newsmen" don't have to do any work. One group of advertisers is the Govenment's Central Information Office, traditional purveyors of public information, but these days it's the PR spivs who write all the news.

Thank heavens that child was a road accident victim though!

Oh, the appaling lies of the Gaddafi regime! Oh the horrors!

The news on the Radio today, from the "Sky News Centre", was that David Kelly definitely committed suicide and Gadaffi definitely had his troops raping native women. There's new evidence for it, so it must be true.

Everyone knows Nato bombing campaigns are so precise, not a single innocent person is harmed!

I mean, I could go check how much tonnage of ordnance Nato has dropped on Libya. Or how many separate bombing raids there have been. Probably quite a few. But all that is to protect and save civilians, it doesn't harm them! Oh, how could anyone be so stupid as to be deceived by the transparent lies put out by the Gaddafi regime! Thank heavens I have the BBC and the Guardian to put me right. It's nice to have someone you can trust.