Huge explosion in Oslo

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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby solace » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:29 pm

vanlose kid wrote:
solace wrote:Guy hates Muslims. Anyone know exactly how many Muslims he actually killed?


from his manifesto, in case you missed it:

In one section Breivik argues that is better to kill civilians than those who would offer more resistance, writing: "It is much more rational and pragmatical to focus on the easier unprotected targets instead of sacrificing good men on an impossible target … we should target unprotected category A and B traitors first and foremost."


*


Thank you, I did miss it. Also I just saw this from his lawyer.

"He admitted responsibility. He feels that it was cruel to have to carry out these acts but that, in his head, it was necessary.

He has said that he believed the actions were atrocious, but that in his head they were necessary.

He's stated that he went to Utøya [where 700 youths in the age of 15-25 were gathered] to give the Labour party a warning that 'doomsday would be imminent' unless the party changed its policies,.

He wanted to hurt the Labour party and halt its recruitment in the worst possible way, referring to party members as marxists.

I think he's realised what he's done, and he views himself as sane. He's told me that he surrendered to Delta [Norwegian special forces].

He wanted to open doors [by committing these crimes]. He will explain the background of his actions and why he actually did it for media.

He sits on a lot of hatred for many people, which incorporates most significant societal institutions.

He says that there was no other way. He had tried all possible alternatives.He felt that his actions were gruesome, but necessary."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/20 ... ve-updates
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby vanlose kid » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:29 pm

Norway attacks: Anders Behring Breivik will join history's human monsters
This a ghastly return of Übermensch mentality that was the mark of Hitler's Nazism. An idyllic country is once again exposed to the banality of evil



Henning Mankell guardian.co.uk, Monday 25 July 2011 20.00 BST

The 32-year-old Norwegian who has confessed to killing more than 70 people requested two things for his court appearance: he wanted to wear a uniform, and he wanted the hearing to be open.

This makes what has happened more complicated. It seems that the man who committed this hideous crime developed a political agenda to defend his actions. He cannot be dismissed simply as a "madman", he is something more. He regards himself as a soldier and he thinks that he has something important to say.

The question is, what?

Perhaps we can find the answer in a book that the German-Jewish philosopher Hannah Arendt wrote during the trial in Israel in 1961 of Adolf Eichmann. For those who do not remember the case, Eichmann had been a much-feared Nazi camp commander who did not hesitate to carry through the orders he received about the mass extermination of the Jews, the Romanies and other people that Hitler thought should be removed from the face of the earth. He had been on the run since Nazi Germany collapsed in the spring of 1945, but was captured by Mossad agents in Argentina and brought secretly to Israel. He was sentenced to death and later executed by hanging.

In her book, Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil, Arendt tries to understand the minds of those people who are prepared to indiscriminately kill their fellow humans without empathy. Often they are ordinary people who cherish their gardens and play with their dogs and their children. No one on the street would ever suspect them of being a deranged murderer.

What we know about the man in Norway indicates banality, too. He is torn apart by an inner rage. He is opposed to Muslims. He is opposed to different types of people meeting in a multicultural society. He detests the ambitions of globalism and is willing to attack the very idea of the modern age. He is a cold-blooded Don Quixote tilting at people who live and breathe.

Everything was well planned. On the surface, there was little or nothing to indicate what was about to happen. After he was arrested, he is reported to have described his actions as "heinous, but necessary". He had launched his own war to "awaken" his fellow countrymen. He wanted to perform in a uniform and he wanted the hearing to become a stage where he could act and deliver his message.

Perhaps he imagines that, in time, he will become the hero that "saved" Norway. Or perhaps he will be satisfied with being inducted into the hall of fame of human monsters.

We might ask whether we have been waiting for this, a brutal act of terrorism not committed by people who have kidnapped the Islamic faith and who claim to act in the name of that religion, but a man with a different political and religious motive. A rightwing extremist, a nationalist with elements of Christian fundamentalism.

One could say that what happened in Norway is a ghastly return of the Übermensch mentality that was the mark of Hitler's Nazism which occupied and tortured Norway during the second world war.

At least we now know one thing that we might not have been certain of before yesterday: people can find the justification for acts of terrorism in all religious, political and ideological contexts. Now we know that those who claimed that terror is always synonymous with the Islamic faith were wrong.

The distant and in many ways idyllic Norway, the country with the oil and the wealth, is suddenly exposed to the banality of evil.

It may be impossible to completely defend oneself and one's country against these actions, but we must try. We must defend the open society, because if we start locking our doors, if we let fear decide, the person who committed the act of terror will win. He will have injected fear into our community. As Franklin D Roosevelt put it: "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

However hard the young Norwegian man tries to justify his actions, there will still be something that we cannot understand: what goes through the mind of a person who turns a gun against a young woman or man he does not know and pulls the trigger.

In every barbaric act there is a human element. That is what makes the barbaric act so inhuman.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ng-breivik


from the comments:

TeflonBliar
25 July 2011 8:18PM
I read some of his manifesto. It seemed to be saying that he would like to live in a 1950s version of Norway and that Islam, multiculturalism and global capitalism had led to the world that we have today where you have to lock everything up and can get sacked for saying what you think. I think his points are rational and well researched but are impractical. It's a good thing that we can read what he says rather than have him merely labelled a mad man, chucked in a jail and throw away the key. It doesn't say that he thinks Western Europeans are superior to other races as suggested in this article.

His ideas are probably in line with millions of people in Europe, his method of gaining publicity are not.



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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:37 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:
barracuda wrote:If this kind of hyperbole is your notion of considering what happened, how do I take anything you say here seriously? I might as well ask Hugh what Nicholas Cage movies premptively highjacked the story, for what the above post is worth.


"Hyperbole"? You're the one who said I might as well join the numerologists. Now you're saying I'm carrying on like Hugh at his wildest and most movie-obsessed, just because I declared myself unwilling to take every wacky logical possibility equally seriously. Shurely shome mishtake?

barracuda wrote:You find the conspiracy obvious


No, I don't. I do find it obvious that the Norwegian police (and air force, and medical and emergency services) were grotesquely, unconscionably slow in responding to an obvious ongoing mass murder, even though the country was under attack and they were all on high alert very close to the scene of the crime. You, by contrast, are fine with that, unlike the Norwegians and tourists who were even closer to the scene of the crime, and indeed dodging bullets while rescuing children; they too were furious, and baffled. Maybe they too should join the numerologists.

I also find it incomprehensible that the Norwegian police initially overestimated the number of dead bodies on that tiny island by sixteen (in figures:16). You claim, at least implicitly, to find that bizarre brainfart (or whatever it was) perfectly comprehensible, although you haven't yet deigned to share your superior understanding with me or anyone else on the board.


Yeah, I've been discussing this aspect of it on my Facebook page, where I've said the following:

What circumstances could possibly explain Norwegian police mistakenly counting an EXTRA 16 dead people???

I can MAYBE understand counting too FEW dead people, but counting too many makes no sense at all.

I'm all ears for theories.


Dead bodies get reported as dead. Missing people get reported as missing. Unless the people doing the reporting are terminally stupid.


We're not talking about hundreds or thousands of dismembered corpses, buried under rubble in a highly populous city.

We're talking about 76 bodies, on a tiny island, where someone certainly had a list of everyone who was supposed to be there due to the fact that it was a camp.

Under those circumstances, 16 extra dead people is an awful lot of extra dead people.


I'm not sure exactly what my implication is, but if I were a reporter with resources I would sure as hell demand to know how on earth the Norwegian police could have possibly counted 16 extra dead people and published that number before bothering to figure out that someone made a seemingly impossible mistake.


Incidentally, responses include:

"People hiding until they knew it was safe? Chaos surrounding the crime scene?"

and...

"The fog of war?"

and from an acquaintance who dutifully equates any questioning of an official story with conspiracy lunacy...

"The Trilateral Commission?" :wallhead:
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby solace » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:41 pm

Bruce Dazzling wrote:
MacCruiskeen wrote:
barracuda wrote:If this kind of hyperbole is your notion of considering what happened, how do I take anything you say here seriously? I might as well ask Hugh what Nicholas Cage movies premptively highjacked the story, for what the above post is worth.


"Hyperbole"? You're the one who said I might as well join the numerologists. Now you're saying I'm carrying on like Hugh at his wildest and most movie-obsessed, just because I declared myself unwilling to take every wacky logical possibility equally seriously. Shurely shome mishtake?

barracuda wrote:You find the conspiracy obvious


No, I don't. I do find it obvious that the Norwegian police (and air force, and medical and emergency services) were grotesquely, unconscionably slow in responding to an obvious ongoing mass murder, even though the country was under attack and they were all on high alert very close to the scene of the crime. You, by contrast, are fine with that, unlike the Norwegians and tourists who were even closer to the scene of the crime, and indeed dodging bullets while rescuing children; they too were furious, and baffled. Maybe they too should join the numerologists.

I also find it incomprehensible that the Norwegian police initially overestimated the number of dead bodies on that tiny island by sixteen (in figures:16). You claim, at least implicitly, to find that bizarre brainfart (or whatever it was) perfectly comprehensible, although you haven't yet deigned to share your superior understanding with me or anyone else on the board.


Yeah, I've been discussing this aspect of it on my Facebook page, where I've said the following:

What circumstances could possibly explain Norwegian police mistakenly counting an EXTRA 16 dead people???

I can MAYBE understand counting too FEW dead people, but counting too many makes no sense at all.

I'm all ears for theories.


Dead bodies get reported as dead. Missing people get reported as missing. Unless the people doing the reporting are terminally stupid.


We're not talking about hundreds or thousands of dismembered corpses, buried under rubble in a highly populous city.

We're talking about 76 bodies, on a tiny island, where someone certainly had a list of everyone who was supposed to be there due to the fact that it was a camp.

Under those circumstances, 16 extra dead people is an awful lot of extra dead people.


I'm not sure exactly what my implication is, but if I were a reporter with resources I would sure as hell demand to know how on earth the Norwegian police could have possibly counted 16 extra dead people and published that number before bothering to figure out that someone made a seemingly impossible mistake.


Incidentally, responses include:

"People hiding until they knew it was safe? Chaos surrounding the crime scene?"

and...

"The fog of war?"

and from an acquaintance who dutifully equates any questioning of an official story with conspiracy lunacy...

"The Trilateral Commission?" :wallhead:



My experience with police is that they are way better on tv than in real life....way smarter too.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby tazmic » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:44 pm

Harvey wrote:I was also a bit thrown by the apparent size of his head in the image, but it's clearly collapsed perspective due to long focal length, so my first impression on that was wrong too. I still can't explain the depth of field issues on the seat belt and his right arm, given that it's a flash photo.

How long do you think the focal length is? I see a flat view of one side of the window frame and about 45 degrees on the other side. I'd guess it was a crop, especially given the quality under flash, of a wider lens. And wouldn't long lens compression make their heads similar sizes? But if you blow up the image the upper left of the window has his hair seemingly on the glass. (Also it looks like the autofocus chose the window, so everything inside the vehicle should be fading out evenly, focus wise, but I wouldn't trust that bright red to behave.)
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Harvey » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:53 pm

I think this may be the 1968 reference on the badges... Trying to find provenance for this, feels too contemporary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_in_Norway

An old woman of 90 from Valdres in Norway had a vision from God in 1968. The evangelist Emanuel Minos had meetings (services) where she lived. He had the opportunity to meet her, and she told him what she had seen. He wrote it down, but thought it to be so unintelligible that he put it in a drawer. Now, almost 30 years later, he understands he has to share the vision with others.

The woman from Valdres was a very alert, reliable, awake and credible Christian, with a good reputation among all who knew her. This is what she saw:

"I saw the time just before the coming of Jesus and the outbreak of the Third World War. I saw the events with my natural eyes. I saw the world like a kind of a globe and saw Europe, land by land. I saw Scandinavia. I saw Norway. I saw certain things that would take place just before the return of Jesus, and just before the last calamity happens, a calamity the likes of which we have never before experienced.

She mentioned four waves:

1. "First before Jesus comes and before the Third World War breaks out there will be a ‘détente’ like we have never had before. There will be peace between the super powers in the east and the west, and there will be a long peace. (Remember, that this was in 1968 when the cold war was at its highest. E. Minos) In this period of peace there will be disarmament in many countries, also in Norway and we are not prepared when it (the war) comes. The Third World War will begin in a way no one would have anticipated - and from an unexpected place.

2. "A lukewarmness without parallel will take hold of the Christians, a falling away from true, living Christianity. Christians will not be open for penetrating preaching. They will not, like in earlier times, want to hear of sin and grace, law and gospel, repentance and restoration. There will come a substitute instead: prosperity (happiness) Christianity.

"The important thing will be to have success, to be something; to have material things, things that God never promised us in this way. Churches and prayer houses will be emptier and emptier. Instead of the preaching we have been used to for generations -like, to take your cross up and follow Jesus, - entertainment, art and culture will invade the churches where there should have been gatherings for repentance and revival. This will increase markedly just before the return of Jesus.

3. "There will be a moral disintegration that old Norway has never experienced the likes of. People will live together like married without being married. (I do not believe the concept ‘co-habitor’? existed in 1968 - E. Minos.) Much uncleanness before marriage, and much infidelity in marriage will become the natural (the common), and it will be justified from every angle. It will even enter Christian circles and we pet it - even sin against nature. Just before Jesus return there will be TV- programs like we have never experienced. (TV had just arrived in Norway in 1968. E. Minos)

"TV will be filled with such horrible violence that it teaches people to murder and destroy each other, and it will be unsafe in our streets. People will copy what they see. There will not be only one ‘station’ on TV, it will be filled with ‘stations.’ (She did not know the word ‘channel’ which we use today. Therefore she called them stations. E. Minos.) TV will be just like the radio where we have many ‘stations,’ and it will be filled with violence. People will use it for entertainment. We will see terrible scenes of murder and destruction one of the other, and this will spread in society. Sex scenes will also be shown on the screen, the most intimate things that takes place in a marriage." (I protested and said, we have a paragraph that forbids this kind of thing. E. Minos.) There the old woman said: "It will happen, and you will see it. All we have had before will be broken down, and the most indecent things will pass before our eyes."

4. "People from poor countries will stream to Europe. (In 1968 there was no such thing as immigration. E. Minos.) They will also come to Scandinavia - and Norway. There will be so many of them that people will begin to dislike them and become hard with them. They will be treated like the Jews before the Second World War. Then the full measure of our sins will have been reached (I protested at the issue of immigration. I did not understand it at the time. E. Minos.)
Last edited by Harvey on Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:01 pm

Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Harvey » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:02 pm

TV will be filled with such horrible violence that it teaches people to murder and destroy each other, and it will be unsafe in our streets. People will copy what they see

I'm sure this 'prophecy' is the intended reference. They're fucking with us, people. It fits with the three main biblical passages when you reference 22:07
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby IanEye » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:17 pm

if someone who was trying to comprise a tally of those killed arrived at the mainland shore, and as they were waiting to be taken to the island saw bodies being loaded into hearses, ambulances etc asked how many bodies had been taken off the island so far, they might be told "16" and write down that number.

then, upon arriving on the shore of the island seeing more bodies being prepared to be moved, asked how many bodies there were they might be told the total number of bodies (including those already taken off), but then they mistakenly add the number they were just given to the first number they wrote down, this miscalculation would add 16 bodies to the body count

that's all i can come up with.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Nordic » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:19 pm

Harvey wrote:And the fact that double yellow lines become single yellow line, but I agree, probably nothing, as I said.



Okay, I don't see what you're referring to there. But I'd be happy to check it out if I can figure out what to look at.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Harvey » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:20 pm

Nordic wrote:
Harvey wrote:And the fact that double yellow lines become single yellow line, but I agree, probably nothing, as I said.



Okay, I don't see what you're referring to there. But I'd be happy to check it out if I can figure out what to look at.


Never mind, it's irrelevant. There's a reflection of double yellow lines on the car body, not in the windows. But it doesn't matter.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Harvey » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:30 pm

Alright, Emmanuel Minos supposedly wrote down this prophecy in 1968:

http://www.offgridworship.com/2010/10/1 ... egian.html

And it says 08-1968 and KT on the England badge and Emmanuel Minos is a member of Kensington Temple:

http://www.revivaltimes.org/index.php?aid=288

http://www.kt.org/

This is definitely the reference they are trying to make, the reference isn't just Knights Templar, it's Kensington Temple. I think they are trying to create multiple levels of fear here.
Last edited by Harvey on Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:37 pm

Who benefits when individuals become so radicalized that they are willing to sacrifice their own lives in dramatic and seemingly senseless acts of terror?

Consider the irony: Military leaders in the West have often bemoaned the difficulty in getting Western operatives to give up their lives for the cause, citing this as a key military strategic advantage that Muslim forces have over Western forces.

So who comes to their rescue but an anti-Muslim extremist.

The more I think about this, the more I feel the narrative of the super-powered wingnut lone wolf serves the interests of the global elite. If they can just get a bunch of other wingnuts similarly willing to sacrifice their own lives in the pursuit of senseless, yet highly dramatic terror, they will be able to enact any totalitarian measures they desire with no resistance from either the left or the right.

Note that this guy killed almost 3 times as many people in one day than any single Palestinian suicide attack has been able to kill in Israel.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Nordic » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:37 pm

justdrew wrote:
Beck: Youth camp attacked in Norway ‘like the Hitler Youth’
07.25.11 | By David Edwards

Conservative radio host Glenn Beck said Monday that a Labour Party youth camp that was attack in Norway Friday “sounds a little like the Hitler Youth.”

“Saturday I was following the news of the shooting in Norway and the explosion in Norway, which happened what on Friday,” Beck recalled. “When we heard the explosion everybody was willing to say, it’s Muslim extremists, it’s Muslim extremists. I don’t think we made a comment on it because we didn’t know other than a bombing had happened, and as the thing started to unfold and there was a shooting a political camp, which sounds a little like the Hitler Youth or you know whatever. Who does a camp for kids that’s all about politics? Disturbing. But, anyway, so there’s this political camp and so crazy man goes and starts shooting kids.”

Politicususa noted that Beck’s 9/12 Project held its own political camp for kids this summer.




Wow. This may be the sickest thing Beck has ever said, tacitly giving his seal of approval to the massacre. Holy shit.

My theory for years now is that Beck and his ilk are TRYING to make something like this happen in the United States. They have been trying trying trying!

And it's amazing that atrocities like this don't happen every damn week here. Considering the way so many people are screaming this kind of hate speech into the ears of the disturbed.

Beck and his cronies are probably wildly jealous of this event. How did this happen so EASILY in Norway? When they've been putting so much effort into making them happen here?
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Nordic » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:39 pm

stickdog99 wrote:Note that this guy killed almost 4 time as many people in one day than any single Palestinian suicide attack has been able to kill in Israel.



And how do we know these "Palestinian" suicide attacks were what Israel said they were?

Israel's entire existence is based upon the "oh my god they're trying to kill us!" mindset.

And they practically invented the modern False Flag attack.
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