Huge explosion in Oslo

[vanlose kid]

...

Oh, I see. You were making an assumption with your statement. Sounded to me like you were making a statement of fact. Thats why i asked for a source, since we use the same internet and all. Yeah, I thought you knew where Norway's highly trained Counter-Terrorism Delta Force (NOT the police) deployed their (reportedly defective and sinkable) RIBs. That would be good to know, but you're bored with that line of questioning of events. Like I said, not important at all. Or the whereabouts of their military equipped Bell helicopters on that day as well. Their sharpshooter and pilot must of had the day off or something when the order to deploy immediately to the island came from the high command. Shopping at the local ikea maybe. Or frying fish in a pan. I guess we'll never really know what happened, unless you believe what the media reported. In which case this highly trained force with a history of saving lives was completely incompetent for an hour. Sitting there doing nothing while the regular Norway police took charge and got there ahead of them with practically the use of fishing boats. Yeah, I can see how that's a totally believable story.

hmm, snafu or conspiracy. so far i'm going for snafu. is that allowed? or is there like irrefutable proof of conspiracy?

*

[barracuda]

Then there is this:

Doesn't it occur to you that the existence of all these separate and different timelines means that no one is yet certain enough of the chronology of events for these exercises to have any meaning? But feel free to mix and match them, or ignore the ones which don't conform to your made up mind on the matter.

Oh, I see. You were making an assumption with your statement. Sounded to me like you were making a statement of fact. ...Yeah, I can see how that's a totally believable story.

Hey, don't let my opinion get in the way of your beliefs, man. It's got to be kind of a drag, though, to be so intensely committed to an idea you have so little hard information about.

[vanlose kid]

didn't say it was. don't think i'd have taken it though. too high on the water.

Exactly. When kids are being shot to death, it's no job for a ferry.

i can just imagine what you'd have made out of this if they had taken the ferry and been forced to turn around because a couple of cops had their heads blown off on the boat.

*

[vanlose kid]

...


So the fake policeman commandeers the ferry within 5 minutes. And the ferry returns to the shore within 5 minutes. But, an hour later, the real cops are completely stumped as to how to fjord the stream.

Fake cop commandeers ferry within 5 minutes. The camp owner commandeers boats to rescue survivors within 5 minutes. But it takes the real cops about 30 minutes to find a "suitable" boat. And when they finally get one, they manage to sink it.

does this really make sense to you or are you just being cute? you're not an ex-army officer or something are you? the reason i ask is cause you think like one.

*

[vanlose kid]

What do you suggest?

I suggest that no one undertakes such a mission without significant support, and that the climate against muslim immigrants in Europe has evolved into a situation in which obviously many people there, and here in the US, secretly support Breivik's actions 100%, or at least the philosophy which underlines his actions. When he tells the court he has cells of sympathisers or supporters, I don't doubt it in the slightest, because behind all his bodybuilding and steroids and nicotine patches, he's a coward and a narcissist. He sees himself as a knight, but he didn't take many risky chances by shooting unarmed children on a remote island. Maybe he acted alone, or maybe with confederates, but you know damn well he didn't go ten years without a support network of some kind. The people I would look at first for signs of complicity would be members of the political establishment that nutures this kind of far-right hatred for it's own purposes, in Norway, England and beyond - the EDL, the Progress Party, etc. I think you have to identify the structure of the smaller players here before you can work your way up the ladder to incriminating the big dogs. Who are the backers of the various political forums he wrote on? Who did he contact through the internet? Did he have a second or third Facebook account through which he sent out his messages? Who was on the friends list? Who else did he send his manifesto to? Follow his money, his travel, and the history of his connections to the far-right. And though much of that information has come out, there is more to come as his network is slowly revealed. As a task, it's probably a lot more mundane drudgework than this armchair quarterback stopwatching routine of the last fifteen pages, but that's what investigative work is really about.

...

Thursday, April 24, 2008
Surrender, Genocide… or What?
Regular readers will remember our guest-essayist El Inglés, who has contributed several thoughtful pieces to Gates of Vienna in the past.

The essay below presents a stark view of the West’s most likely future. It’s difficult to read such a pessimistic scenario, but El Inglés’ analysis rewards close scrutiny.

Remember: the article below is descriptive, not normative.


The Ummah Jack

Surrender, Genocide… or What?
by El Inglés

Introduction

A few months ago, I wrote “The Danish Civil War”, a fictional scenario which served to structure a consideration of various issues relating to the rise of Islam in Europe and the likely consequences thereof. The essay finished with the conclusion that Islam constituted an existential threat to the survival of European civilization, and that Islam’s influence on Europe therefore needed to be eliminated. It further concluded that, logically speaking, the various ways of achieving this goal could be broadly subdivided into three categories:

1) inducing Muslims to leave of their own free will,
2) mass deportations, and
3) genocide.

(Hereinafter referred to as options one, two and three, respectively)

This final conclusion was delivered as dispassionately as possible due to a desire to present the situation objectively, as if an alien super-intelligence were viewing the conflicts of various warring tribes of hairless apes. If I am correct in arguing that the number of Muslims in Europe must be reduced to no more than a fraction of its current value, then the three options I discussed are the only three options for achieving this goal. We may consider all three to be morally abhorrent and decide to submit to Islam rather than avail ourselves of any of them, but that does not alter the brute analysis of what could, in principle, be done in response to the Islamization of Europe.

Having now had several months in which to further consider this issue, it seems to me that my conclusions in this regard can be considerably refined. For reasons that I hope to make clear in this essay, I no longer believe that it is possible to solve the problem that Islam has become by means of option one, and I have little confidence that even option two could constitute an effective tool in this regard. I therefore predict that Europe is being swept into a position where it will be forced to choose between relying overwhelmingly on option three and surrendering...

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http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2008/04/surrender-genocide-or-what.html

more at source.

Breivik is also not the sole author of that tome, a work called "2083 - A European Declaration of Independence" and which calls for a crusade against Islam in Europe. Hundreds of pages were written by other right-wing bloggers, Breivik simply copied and pasted them into his treatise. Dozens of chapters were published in recent years on blogs like Gates of Vienna (GoV) and The Brussels Journal, two of his most-cited sources. Breivik himself claimed to follow the "Viennese school of thought," a direct reference to GoV.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 13,00.html

*

[vanlose kid]

The Peaceful Political Expression Of Conservatism

From the desk of Michael Presley on Mon, 2011-07-25 21:48

A Google search shows over 5,000 references to The Brussels Journal and the Norway killer, Anders Breivik. Two of the most notable sources are the UK Guardian, and the German Spiegel Online. From these and others we find that Breivik's own writing contained references to material sourced from The Brussels Journal and another blog, The Gates of Vienna. From both venues the anonymous writer Fjordman is cited. The implication is that The Brussels Journal's political writings are in some way responsible for creating an intellectual ground leading to the murder of innocents.

Der Spiegel's Frank Patalong labels The Brussels Journal a window “into a “strange scene.” That is,

“...pro-Western, exceedingly pro-American and friendly to Israel -- but extremely anti-Muslim, aggressively Christian and openly hostile to everything which is liberal, leftist, multi-cultural or internationalist. It is a "patriotic-nationalist" scene which detests the Nazis but is sympathetic - to the point of maintaining informal contacts -- to the Tea Party Movement in the US, to the right-wing populist Freedom Party of Austria, to the right-wing football fan group known as the Casuals and to the stridently anti-Muslim English Defence League.” [see footnote]

In addition, Patalong explicitly accuses Fjordman of being the “actual author of several hundred pages” of Breivik's manifesto, when in fact the latter merely cut and pasted the former's words into his own political treatise-collage.

The Guardian's Andrew Brown, as we stated previously, writes how “[Fjordman] has also written for The Brussels Journal, a fanatically anti-EU blog.” He then goes on:

“Obviously these people cannot be held responsible for the use to which their ideas were put. No matter how deranged a killer's ideas, he still needs a deranged personality to put them into action. But anyone tempted to take them seriously should consider what were almost Breivik's last words: "For the last three years I have been working full time on a cultural conservative work which will help to develop and market these political ideas." “

The intentions of Patalong and Brown are clear. It is to delegitimize and in fact smear conservative political writing. No more and no less. It is an attempt to silence political thought by associating political ideas with criminal acts. In Patalong's list of thought crimes, the most telling is his understanding that the very heterogeneous conservative voices at The Brussels Journal do have one thing in common: a dislike (Patalong uses the charged word “hostility”) of leftist liberalism.

No Brussels Journal author has called for, much less expressed a hope or longing for political violence. I myself have indicated that continued violence is what we can likely expect, but to say so is simply recognizing the world for what it is, and what it is becoming — a collection of individuals forming groups with no clear cultural-social-political homogeneity or bond. And that is the most anyone here has ever stated.

Perhaps the greatest contribution of Western civilization to our present well-being is democratic institutions that allow for peaceful political expression. Clearly political action cannot be grounded upon violence. It is, instead, the anarchist, the anti-political nihilist who champions civil discord, and who then justifies his actions in the name of revolutionary progress. The Brussels Journal and its writers exist within and argue for our continued civilized Western political tradition. To attempt to associate the Journal and its contributors with anarchic criminals is despicable.


___________________________

Remark from the editors: While it is not our intention to systematically deny every wild assertion or far-fetched guess about The Brussels Journal and its writers, and while we are not tracking every footstep of our contributors, we think it is highly improbable that any of our current authors have contacts with the English Defence League, the Casuals football fan group (whatever that may be) or the Austrian Freedom Party, contrary to what Mr. Frank Patalong from Der Spiegel suggests.

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http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/4778

Norwegian Tragedy And Absence Of Debate

From the desk of Lucien Oulahbib on Sun, 2011-07-24 12:55

Bitter criticism of Islam, a "grass-roots" profile, islamophobia: that's what "experts" immediately point to in the wake of the disaster created by a so-called "Christian extremist" (or, in contradiction, a freemason). Compared with the Oslo bombing and the Utøya killings, a small anti-christian killing in Egypt or elsewhere is explained simply as an act of an unbalanced lunatic, or as the effect of social tension caused by the "American-Zionist" masters of the universe. That is the iniquitous model of the bankable explanation presented to us.

Without reducing the inexcusable aspect of his acts, let's focus on the circumstances in which Anders Behring Breivik planned his crime. Was he a "lone wolf", like the Oklahoma City bomber or the failed assassin of Chirac? Is he a white knight trying to stop the supposed implosion of a derailed world by shooting at the heart of the future elite? Let's follow this hypothesis for a while, and hence reject that he was pathologically affected. His rage, fed by video games, may also have been caused by the lack of real debate on the radical changes caused by a multiculturalism.

If there were a real counter-power, symbolic or spiritual, enabling a critical debate on the role of Islam in the world without being accused as a racist, maybe this inexcusable and vile act would have taken another form? Nobody knows. But please, do not put all the blame on islamo-criticism gone wrong. This criticism is either absent in the mainstream, or demonized. The thousands and thousands of people murdered by (radical) Islam should weigh heavier than these 92 deaths.

So, let us remain rational and ask ourselves why such extreme acts are perpetrated. Don't put the blame solely on populism and its derivatives. Lacking real debate, society is forced, even raped, to the point of disappearing, dissolving the people and replacing it with another one - and whoever refuses is treated as a racist. If this continues, we should not be surprised to see other tragedies occur.

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http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/4773

*

[Stephen Morgan]

http://k2-solutions.eu/forum/user/9702-private-pilot/

Birthday: Nov 2nd

Gender: Male

Location: Mounds, ok

Occupation: Civil/Structural Designer

Hobbies: Fly RC Airplanes

If one of you guys can find 22 embedded in that string as well we have our final sick joke.

I know I've probably gone of my head here, but all of this is from following one thread, on the badge in Breiviks video, KT and 08 68. Spooks talking to each other?

Weird huh?

2/11?

[stickdog99]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ds-newsxml

Questions are being raised as to why it took Norwegian police and special forces an hour to reach the island of Utoya - as gunman Anders Behring Breivik indiscriminately opened fire on his unsuspecting victims. It has emerged that special forces in Oslo did not have an operative helicopter available that could take them straight to the island. And when they finally arrived after a 28 mile trip by road to Hoenefoss, opposite the island, 60 minutes after (police dishonestly claim) receiving the first reports of the shooting, they could not find a suitable boat to use. The one they did board almost sank because their equipment was too heavy - and they had to continuously bail out water as they made the crossing.

Police spokeman Johan Fredriksen told a press conference this afternoon that: 'The police helicopters are only useful for observation, not for transporting groups of police. 'For transport we had to rely on assistance from the military.' ...

Police operations chief in the northern Buskerud County Erik Berga said earlier today: 'When so many people and equipment were put into it, the boat started to take on water, so that the motor stopped. 'The boat was way too small and way too poor.'

The delay allowed 32-year-old Breivik to go about his deadly work undisturbed by police for an hour after (police dishonestly claim they received) the first reports of gunfire.

Sissel Hammer, the police chief in Hoenefoss, said she understood why critics 'think it took too long for the police to come' but said they had moved as quickly as possible.

Hammer said: 'I ask for understanding of the fact that it takes time to send out a special armed force. The personnel have to be notified, they must put on protective gear, arm themselves and get out to the area.' ...

Police sources said there had been much internal police debate over whether the first responders should have approached the island without waiting for the Oslo force.

[stickdog99]

http://www.rnw.nl/international-justice ... st-delay-1

Amid heavy criticism after police initially said it took an hour and a half to get to the scene of the second massacre, senior officer Johan Fredriksen told a news briefing the gap was closer to an hour.

Uh, oh. Did somebody make the mistake of telling the truth? Oops. Let's just fudge a little and pretend that all of those 911 calls took 20+ minutes to get through to us. Fog of war and all that.

[stickdog99]

http://www.3news.co.nz/Norway-Two-hours ... fault.aspx

5:45pm:

At another camp site on the mainland shore near Utoya Island, camp owner Brede Johbraaten has been listening to the sound of gunfire - sometimes lone pops, other times staccato bursts - waft across the humid evening air for more than half an hour.

But it's only now that he discovers the horror unfolding some 800 metres of frigid water away.

The first survivors, among the strongest and luckiest, have swum the full distance. They aren't wounded but say many of their campmates are dying in the water behind, some bleeding to death from bullet wounds, others cramping up and drowning.

Johbraaten, 59, and other campers rally several small craft to join a local flotilla converging on the island from several points, including another island to the north. They pluck both flailing swimmers and lifeless bodies from the surface.

"It was hard for some of these youngsters to swim a distance of 800 metres under these conditions," Johbraaten said.

Amid the chaos, the arriving police SWAT team complains that no boats have remained on shore as they'd expected, compounding the delay.

So there is no way these police can use a bullhorn or their sirens to alert all these boats no more than 500 meters away that they are in need to transport?

[stickdog99]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2 ... tml?r=news

Inept Norweigan cops couldn't locate a helicopter or a boat, allowing the gunman to shoot down his victims for 90 minutes before help arrived. By that time, the mass murderer in a police uniform had methodically slaughtered 85 victims. The terrified victims fleeing Anders Behring Breivik ran and swam for their lives as they waited in horror for help that came too late for many, officials said yesterday.

A SWAT team dispatched to the killing field on Utoya island about 50 minutes after the first report of gunfire went by car because their helicopter wasn't on standby, said Police Chief Sveinung Sponheim. After the 20-minute ride, the emergency response was delayed another 20 minutes when the team couldn't find a boat to reach the island just a few hundred yards offshore, he said. ...

Although police wouldn't cross the frigid water to the island without a boat, teens desperately trying to flee the carnage swam to safety.

[stickdog99]

The original story

A SWAT team was dispatched to the island more than 50 minutes after people vacationing at a campground said they heard shooting across the lake, according to Police Chief Sveinung Sponheim. The drive to the lake took about 20 minutes, and once there, the team took another 20 minutes to find a boat.

[stickdog99]

The AP is now admitting the full 90 minute delay.

The sharp reduction in the death toll adds to a list of police missteps: They took 90 minutes to arrive at the island retreat after the first shot and survivors who called emergency services reported being told to stay off the lines unless they were calling about the Oslo bombings.

On Monday, the force revealed its entire Oslo helicopter crew had been sent on vacation and thus couldn't be mobilized to the scene.

By contrast, Breivik, who donned a police uniform as part of a ruse to draw campers to him, appeared in total control during the island rampage, police official Odd Reidar Humlegaard said.

[stickdog99]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/world ... ivors.html

Mads Andenas, a law professor, said that his niece had survived the gunman’s rampage, but that she was too traumatized to speak. Three of his students were killed on the island; another is missing and presumed dead.

But Mr. Andenas, a professor of law at the University of Oslo and a former director of the British Institute of International and Comparative Law, said he was angry at the authorities, who he said were slow to respond, and at the political establishment for allowing extremism to take root in Norway.

He said he wanted to know why it took the police 90 minutes to stop the slaughter and refused to accept the bombing in central Oslo as an excuse.

“The police operation was bungled, one of the most bungled operations of its kind,” Mr. Andenas said. “We have many questions about the police inaction. Their account reads as a tragedy of errors.”

“We have failed the young people at the Young Socialist summer camp,” he said.

Some reports in the local media have suggested that a helicopter that would usually have been used to respond to the emergency on the island had been taken out of service over the summer holidays. There were also reports of a police boat’s engine failure.

But beyond such issues, which are sure to be addressed in inquiries, Mr. Andenas also said he saw a failure by the government in Norway and governments in other Western countries to track right-wing extremists spreading hatred of foreigners and immigrants.

[stickdog99]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/ ... ZC20110725

"Why didn't you come earlier?," survivors screamed when Norwegian police arrived after an hour in which Anders Behring Breivik had wandered the wooded island of Utoeya shooting dead 68 people, most of them teenagers. ...

It was 5.26 p.m. on Friday when local police in Nordre Buskerud first received an alert about shootings on the island. Four minutes later they notified Oslo and another eight minutes after that they formally requested back-up.

Fourteen minutes later still, local police arrived at the shore of the mainland, but for a further 17 minutes waited for a boat.

"We asked for help from the SWAT team in Oslo, which is specially trained to deal with armed situations. We did not know about the extent of the situation that was out there," North Buskerud police chief Sissel Hammer was quoted as saying by the Dagsavisen daily newspaper.

"But this was not about waiting, this was 17 minutes during which we prepared ourselves."