Huge explosion in Oslo

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby RobinDaHood » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:07 pm

stickdog99 wrote:
Searcher08 wrote:
stickdog99 wrote:
Searcher08 wrote:Sorry, I appear to have over-estimated your intelligence and under-estimated your attachment to John Wayne movies.

Because only John Wayne would dare try to stop kids from getting shot by the dozen.
:lol2:

I can imagine you posting a tirade after the madman turned Utoya into a radioactive pit, screaming

"HOW COULD THE POLICE HAVE INTERVENED?
WHY COULD THEY NOT HAVE WAITED?"

You and Lupercal are turning into the Nico Haupt and Gerald Holmgren of RI

So I'm a raving lunatic because I don't have your hyperactive imagination and I, like most Norwegians (and hopefully most people everywhere but here), think cops should do their jobs and protect innocent lives even during dangerous emergencies?

I wonder where you're sitting as you write that. Where I'm at, "protecting innocent lives even during dangerous emergencies" is no longer in the job description.
June 28, 2005

WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html
^^I guess this has jaded me considerably.
User avatar
RobinDaHood
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:35 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby vanlose kid » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:21 pm

i've been wanting to return to an aspect of this that got lost after the first few pages, the Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami angle and its pushers, starting at p.4:

Harvey brought it up first (i think) here: viewtopic.php?p=415110#p415110

followed by Nordic: viewtopic.php?p=415113#p415113

then Peachtree Pam posted this:

Peachtree Pam wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html?_r=2&hp

...snip....


A terror group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or the Helpers of the Global Jihad, issued a statement claiming responsibility for the attack, according to Will McCants, a terrorism analyst at C.N.A., a research institute that studies terrorism. The message said the attack was a response to Norwegian forces’ presence in Afghanistan and to unspecified insults to the Prophet Muhammad. “We have warned since the Stockholm raid of more operations,” the group said, according to Mr. McCants’ translation, apparently referring to a bombing in Sweden in December 2010. “What you see is only the beginning, and there is more to come.” The claim could not be confirmed.

...snip...



Is this the same CNA?

http://www.cna.org/about/staff/featured

Address: (in very small type) 4825 Mark Center Drive, Alexandria, VA 22311 | 703.824.2000 | Directions


here: viewtopic.php?p=415120#p415120

then Peachtree Pam with more on CNA (now on p.5):

Peachtree Pam wrote:More on the background of CNA, located in Alexandria, Virginia, which translated the statement from the "terrorists":



CNA’s approach to research is a modern iteration of Isaac Newton’s insight that direct observation of events and people increases one’s understanding of complex, dynamic processes.

That was the methodology CNA’s first researchers used when they pioneered the field of operations research and analysis by helping the Navy address the German U-boat threat in the early 1940s. Not content to study the problem from afar, this small group of MIT scientists insisted on deploying with Navy forces so they could directly observe operational challenges and collect the data needed for meaningful analyses. Their groundbreaking work resulted in anti-submarine warfare barrier equations that set the standard for future operations research methods.

Today's CNA, with more than 350 researchers at our headquarters and 45 analysts in the field, still takes this real-world approach to its work. Our research and analysis model uses on-site analysts to carefully observe all aspects of a process—people, decisions, actions, consequences—who collaborate with a research team based at our headquarters to assess data, and arrive at findings.

This model has proved valuable to a wide range of government decision makers, and work that began with national defense-related concerns addressed by the Center for Naval Analyses has grown to include a broad range of public interest issues that are addressed by the Institute for Public Research — including education, health care and public health, homeland security, human capital management, and air traffic management.

http://www.cna.org/about/history


viewtopic.php?p=415124#p415124

i responded to her first post with this:

vanlose kid wrote:
Peachtree Pam wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html?_r=2&hp

...snip....


A terror group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or the Helpers of the Global Jihad, issued a statement claiming responsibility for the attack, according to Will McCants, a terrorism analyst at C.N.A., a research institute that studies terrorism. The message said the attack was a response to Norwegian forces’ presence in Afghanistan and to unspecified insults to the Prophet Muhammad. “We have warned since the Stockholm raid of more operations,” the group said, according to Mr. McCants’ translation, apparently referring to a bombing in Sweden in December 2010. “What you see is only the beginning, and there is more to come.” The claim could not be confirmed.

...snip...



Is this the same CNA?

http://www.cna.org/about/staff/featured

Address: (in very small type) 4825 Mark Center Drive, Alexandria, VA 22311 | 703.824.2000 | Directions


Alleged Claim for Oslo Attacks
Posted: 22nd July 2011 by Will McCants in Europe
56

This was posted by Abu Sulayman al-Nasir to the Arabic jihadi forum, Shmukh, around 10:30am EST (thread 118187). Shmukh is the main forum for Arabic-speaking jihadis who support al-Qaeda. Since the thread is now inaccessible (either locked or taken down), I am posting it here. I don’t have time at the moment to translate the whole thing but I translated the most important bits on twitter.

Update: Abu Sulayman has now issued a retraction, stating clearly that “Helpers” was not involved in the operation and that his statement was not an official statement. He says those who carried out the attacks “must surely be known to all.”

http://www.jihadica.com/alleged-claim-for-oslo-attacks/


right...

Jihadica:

About
By Will McCants

Jihadica is a clearinghouse for materials related to militant, transnational Sunni Islamism, commonly known as Jihadism. At the moment, much of this material is diffuse, known only to a few specialists, and inaccessible to the public and policymakers unless they pay a fee. Jihadica provides this material for free and keeps a daily record of its dissemination that can be easily searched and studied. These records are accompanied by the expert commentary of people who have the requisite language training to understand the primary source material and advanced degrees in relevant fields.


The Team

William McCants, the founder and co-editor of Jihadica, is a research analyst at the Center for Strategic Studies at CNA and adjunct faculty at Johns Hopkins University. He has served as Senior Adviser for Countering Violent Extremism at the U.S. Department of State, program manager of the Minerva Initiative at the Department of Defense, and fellow at West Point’s Combating Terrorism Center. Will has a PhD from Princeton University and is the editor of the Militant Ideology Atlas. Far afield from his publications and translations related to jihadism, Will’s book on early Islamic culture myths, Founding Gods, Inventing Nations, will be published this Winter.

Thomas Hegghammer is a fellow at Harvard Kennedy School and a senior research fellow at the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (FFI). He has a PhD from Sciences-Po in Paris and is the author of a forthcoming book entitled Jihad in Saudi Arabia.

Vahid Brown is a former Harmony Fellow at the Combating Terrorism Center at West Point, a senior instructor for the CTC’s FBI program, and now pursuing a PhD in Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University. He is the author of Cracks in the Foundation: Leadership Schisms in al-Qa’ida, 1989-2006. His research focuses on the history of transnational Islamist militancy, particularly in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Brynjar Lia is the director of terrorism research at the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (FFI). He holds a PhD from the University of Oslo. He is the author of several books on terrorism and Islamism, including Architect of Global Jihad: The Life of Al-Qaida Strategist Abu Mus`ab al-Suri.

Hanna Rogan is a research fellow at the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (FFI) and a PhD candidate at the University of Oslo. She wrote a Master’s thesis on al-Qaida’s media strategy and is currently working on jihadism in North Africa.

Scott Sanford is a graduate student at George Washington University, Washington D.C. His research focus is militant movements in the Levant.

Anne Stenersen is a research fellow at the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (FFI) and a PhD candidate at the University of Oslo. She is the author of the book Al-Qaida’s Quest for Weapons of Mass Destruction. Her current research focuses on the history of the Arabs in Afghanistan and Pakistan after 9/11.

Truls Tønnessen is also a research fellow at the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment and a PhD candidate in History at the University of Oslo. His MA degree focused on Islamism in Egypt, while his doctoral research centers on the Iraqi insurgency.

All contributors are writing in a private capacity; the views expressed here do not represent those of their employers, their affiliate institutions, or the governments of the countries in which they live.

http://www.jihadica.com/about/


Thomas Hegghammer (CV) is an academic specialising in the study of violent Islamism. He is a senior research fellow at the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (FFI) in Oslo and a non-resident fellow at New York University's Center on Law and Security. He is the author of the book Jihad in Saudi Arabia (Cambridge University Press) and the co-author of al-Qaida in its own words (Harvard University Press, 2008). Thomas Hegghammer also edits the blog Jihadica and comments frequently in international media.

Recent Publications
- "Sikkerhetspolitiske implikasjoner av opprørene i Midtøsten", DNAK Kortinfo, (11 May 2011)
- "The Rise of Muslim Foreign Fighters", International Security (6 January 2011). See also the related policy brief.
- "The case for chasing al-Awlaki", ForeignPolicy.com (24 November 2010)

Other news
- Jacket cover of the forthcoming book The Meccan Rebellion available (21 May 2011)
- Audio interview with the Economist on the death of Usama bin Ladin (6 May 2011)
- Thomas Hegghammer awarded the annual prize for young scholars (humanities and social sciences) by the Royal Norwegian Society of Sciences and Letters (11 March 2011)
- Testimony to the Special Senate Committee on Anti-Terrorism, Canadian Senate (6 December 2010)
- Webcast recorded for the National September 11 Memorial Museum website (7 July 2010)

Upcoming talks
- none scheduled

http://hegghammer.com/


Brynjar Lia
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Brynjar Lia (born July 14, 1966) is a Norwegian historian and research professor at the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (FFI) where he is head of FFI's research on international terrorism and global jihadism. Lia is viewed as one of Norway's foremost experts on terrorism and is much cited in Norwegian and international media in connection to Al-Qaeda and international terrorism. Lia's last book is about Abu Musab al-Suri, which has been reviewed in publications like Newsweek, The Economist, London Review of Books, and The New York Review of Books.
[edit] Bibliography of books in English

Architect of Global Jihad: The Life of Al Qaeda Strategist Abu Mus'ab Al-Suri (Columbia Univ. Press, 2008)
Building Arafat's Police: The Politics of International Police Assistance in the Palestinian Territories After the Oslo Agreement (Ithaca Press, 2007)
A Police Force Without a State: A History of the Palestinian Security Forces in the West Bank And Gaza (Ithaca Press, 2006)
Globalisation and the Future of Terrorism: Patterns and Predictions (Routledge, 2005)
The Society of the Muslim Brothers in Egypt 1928-42 (Ithaca Press, 1998)

[edit] External links

FFI explains al-Qaida document, regarding a pre-warning found on the Internet about the Madrid 2004 bombing
Dr Brynjar Lia's "The al-Qaida Strategist Abu Mus'ab al-Suri: A Profile", from Counterterrorism blog
Newsweek article about Abu Musab al-Suri with comments from Lia
Book review of Architect of Global Jihad (The Economist, 2007)
Book review of Architect of Global Jihad (London Review of Books, 2008)
The growth of 'online Jihadism' (BBC World, 26 October 2006)
Jihadi Suicide Bombers: The New Wave (The New York Review of Books, June 2008)

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... rynjar_Lia


Ever since the late 1990s, it has been claimed that the threat of chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear (CBRN) terrorism from al-Qaida is real and growing. Yet, few academic studies have been focused towards analyzing al-Qaida¿s actual interest in developing a CBRN capability. This book seeks to investigate al-Qaida¿s interest in CBRN weapons, as reflected by statements and activities on various levels within the network between 1996- 2007. The study considers a variety of primary sources, ranging from the writings of well-known strategists to chemical formulations posed on al-Qaida-affiliated web pages. The study concludes that al-Qaida¿s interest in using non- conventional means to achieve their goals appears lower than commonly anticipated. The book then goes on to discuss why there is an apparent lack of CBRN-related innovation within the network, drawing from previous studies on CBRN terrorism and innovation in militant organizations. This book is aimed at anyone with an interest in the topics of CBRN terrorism or militant islamism, and might be of particular interest to professionals within the counter-terrorism community.

About the Author
Anne Stenersen, M.Phil: Studied Arabic at the University of Oslo and has conducted research on terrorism and militant Islamism since 2006. Research fellow at the Terrorism and Political Violence Project at the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (FFI).

http://www.amazon.com/Al-Qaidas-Quest-W ... 203&sr=1-1


*


there it ended. i still find these "actors" and their responses interesting. also, i think "Ansar al-Jihad" were made up wholecloth. everyone was waiting for the usual suspects, not just the MSM but the spook media-saturation outfits. then they got hit with Breivik and the original posting is retracted. coverage starts to quiet down rapidly. and the counter spin starts: handwashing and accusations on all fronts.

edit: "they" (supply your own preferred filler) were not expecting Breivik.

*
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
User avatar
vanlose kid
 
Posts: 3182
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby ShinShinKid » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:38 pm

What I find interesting is the coincidence between the CNA (safe to say "right wing"?) Norwegian personnel, and the fact they were the FIRST to come out with a "responsibility claim". Their claim ended up being false, but how many of these people knew this Norwegian character?
Well played, God. Well played".
User avatar
ShinShinKid
 
Posts: 565
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:25 pm
Location: Home
Blog: View Blog (26)

Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby kenoma » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:52 pm

I'm glad someone's keeping an eye on 'Will McCants'. Everything he said about Ansar al-Jihad al-Alamineed needs to be preserved in aspic and compared to similarly Olympian judgments regarding the 'Deccan Mujahideen' and whatever other threats await us.
Expectation calibration and expectation management is essential at home and internationally. - Obama foreign policy advisor Samantha Power, February 21, 2008
User avatar
kenoma
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:32 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby solace » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:04 pm

"Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg can claim a 94 percent approval rating of his leadership during the past five days"

Massive fail, shooter.
solace
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 11:38 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby kenoma » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:13 pm

But anyway, I was asking what name one should give to this new strain of Eurofascism. I'd call it EuroKahanism or, in some circumstances, ChristoKahanism. I think that describes well that new arc of fascism spreading across the Atlantic between Southern USA and Northern Europe through to Israel. The term encompasses the (antisemitic) judeophilia and sinister violence of the groups invovled, as well as their virulent Islamophobia. Not to mention encompassing that weird ideology, spread by the culture industry, in which privileged whites are in fact the victims of the poor South.

What do you think the English Defence League was modelled on, for instance?
Image

Edited: Significantly
Expectation calibration and expectation management is essential at home and internationally. - Obama foreign policy advisor Samantha Power, February 21, 2008
User avatar
kenoma
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:32 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:25 pm

"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby DrVolin » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:34 pm

That's quite interesting. A physical description from more than one witness is certainly more thought provoking than reports of shots coming from multiple directions.
all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars

--Guns and Roses
DrVolin
 
Posts: 1544
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:19 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:54 pm

Just so we don't get carried away with wondering why kids werent playing iphone camera tourist or this or that, and reduce this to an elephant telephone game with a strong disconnect...this is some of the nearly 80 kids killed

Image

Strangely, the gub'ment is saying some child smut addicted unstable soldier was stage a series of terror bombings at Fort Hood today.
No surprise, it's a white "al Qaeda" guy who wanted to blow up the base because of the US involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan.

See, they can stage terror without even going all the way with these patsies. Oh dont like the wars going on? Don't like Obama and NATO playing Breivik every damn day in the middle east and north africa?
Well, you're a potential terruh-ist!
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby justdrew » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:05 pm

kenoma wrote:But anyway, I was asking what name one should give to this new strain of Eurofascism.


it's not necessarily new...

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32612&p=415734#p415734
Palingenetic ultranationalism
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby barracuda » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:22 pm

8bitagent wrote:this is some of the nearly 80 kids killed


While it's tempting to focus upon the pathos of the children victims, I'd like to point out that it seems a great number of adults were also killed in this incident, so I'm not sure that characterisation is quite correct. For example, in the list provided here by the Norwegian police, 26 of the 42 names are 18 years of age or over, and 13 of those 26 are 25 years or older. I realise this doesn't make the thing any less shockingly awful, but to say "80 children killed" is not entirely accurate.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:24 pm



According to witnesses, the man about 180 centimeters tall, had thick, dark hair and had a Nordic look. He had a pistol in his right hand and a rifle on his back, writes VG Nett.
- I am convinced that there were two people who shot, says Aleksander Stavdal, 23, told the newspaper.


This would go some way toward explaining the disparity in reports of the weapons used. People asked how Breivik had got to the island with a shotgun, machine pistol, and some kind of rifle, plus explosives, without anyone noticing - the answer, I thought, was that he had established weapons caches there some time in advance of the attack, as the plan in his manifesto stipulates. But another gunman, already there or arriving from a different (or the same) place would perhaps explain it better. Maybe.

Also, leading off from Mac's link:

He planned to film their attacks

In the 1517-page manifesto describes Anders Behring Breivik how best to plan a mass murder.
Here is how the bombs are manufactured. And he also recommends how everything must be documented - with a mini camera.
- I have tested it personally and it works very well, he writes.


That is in the manifesto, as I mentioned earlier. So there could be film. I'll never watch it, but it might exist. Not that it'll convince the already convinced.

One of the more unusual sections describe how he plans to document the operation.
- AEE PD80 4GB Mini DV DVR Camera. This extremely small and lightweight camera used to document the operation. Four gigabytes is enough for two hours of continuous shooting, he writes.
Police would not comment.

He also writes that he plans to send the movie to the media as "may publish the uncensored" or to add it yourself on the Internet using a mobile phone.

It is not known whether Behring Breivik brought along a camera during the mass murder of Otöya or bombings in Oslo. Police have refused to comment on what they are convicted, in addition to a gun, a gun and police uniform, he was dressed in.
During Sunday evening's press conference the police refused to answer the question whether he documented attacks. They referred to the preliminary investigation is ongoing.


Somewhat shoddy translation. I hope he failed to film it, though, as he failed in so much else.*

*Yes, yes - if he was the shooter, and if Berwick is Breivick, and also if his manifesto even approaches a real account of the build up to the crime, which it might not, and probably doesn't exactly, given the type of person he seems to be in it by his own account (if he is him).
---

Anyway, one way or another, we have all just witnessed the most violent book-launch in history.
"The universe is 40 billion light years across and every inch of it would kill you if you went there. That is the position of the universe with regard to human life."
User avatar
AhabsOtherLeg
 
Posts: 3285
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:43 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Harvey » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:53 pm

Breivik, son of a diplomat at the Norwegian embassy in London found himself at some point in his life severely compromised. Clearly he couldn't deal with whatever happened to him, and the deadly results we are only just learning about. But he did not act alone, and despite the dodgy dossier, we really don't know why he did what he did.

We do know however, that he did not act alone. Anybody who says he did is either a retard or hasn't been paying attention.

One of the key questions is how the other shooter or shooters left the island. Either posing as victims, or posing as special forces. The former might lead us to wonder who might have already sought benefit from events. It might be somebody already politically active, somebody perhaps already having come into a small fortune around the same time as Breivik, somebody being groomed for power. The latter, we can't even guess who. Yet.

One thing I do know for certain, very few people are asking the right questions. So far.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


Eden Ahbez
User avatar
Harvey
 
Posts: 4200
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:49 am
Blog: View Blog (20)

Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby lupercal » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:55 pm

^ Harvey: agreed, how they got out of there is a question.

AhabsOtherLeg wrote:People asked how Breivik had got to the island with a shotgun, machine pistol, and some kind of rifle, plus explosives, without anyone noticing - the answer, I thought, was that he had established weapons caches there some time in advance of the attack, as the plan in his manifesto stipulates.

It's also possible that they were in this van, which apparently came over on the ferry, if the caption under this pic from Sunday's Daily Mail is correct:

Image
Crime scene: The 32-year-old Norwegian is said to have used this white van to drive onto the island of Utoya
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -fire.html

My current theory is that the shooter dressed as a cop drove the van and handled the crossing while Breivik and the un-uniformed shooter(s) were inside with the ammo. As I say I doubt if Breivik actually shot anyone, though it's possible, but the only pic I've found that looks at all threatening seems to show a bald guy with a long fringe, while Breivik has short hair, though I've seen so few pics of him it's hard to be sure:

Image
same link.
User avatar
lupercal
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Harvey » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:02 pm

I have a very strong intuition that the other shooters were already on the island.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


Eden Ahbez
User avatar
Harvey
 
Posts: 4200
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:49 am
Blog: View Blog (20)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 170 guests