Do you own a firearm?

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Re: Do you own a firearm?

Postby Six Hits of Sunshine » Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:45 am

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful and well reasoned answers. Really, you've got quite a nice community here and I appreciate it very much.

I got thinking about this seriously because I read an essay by Sam Harris recently in which he talked about violence, how to avoid it and how to actively prepare yourself, mentally, to respond to it. Very interesting stuff. Here's an excerpt and a link:

The Truth about Violence
3 Principles of Self-Defense

As a teenager, I once had an opportunity to fly in a police helicopter over a major American city. Naively, I thought the experience might be uneventful. Perhaps there would be no crime between 8:00 and 10:00 p.m. on a Saturday night. However, from the moment we were airborne, there was a fresh emergency every fifteen seconds: Shots fired… rape in progress… victim stabbed…It was a deluge. Of course, the impression this left on me was, in part, the result of a sampling bias: I was hearing nothing but incident reports from a city of 4 million people, most of whom would never encounter violence directly. (No one calls the police to say “Everything is still okay!”) Yet it was uncanny to discover the chaos that lurked at the margins of my daily routine. A few minutes from where I might otherwise have been eating dinner, rapes, robberies, and murders were in progress.

Just as it is prudent to wear your seat belt while driving, it makes sense to know how best to respond to violence. In fact, it is overwhelmingly likely that some of you will become the targets of violence in the future. The purpose of this essay is to help you prepare for it. While I do not consider myself an expert on personal security, I know enough to have strong opinions. In my youth, I practiced martial arts for many years and eventually taught self-defense classes in college.[1] My education included work with firearms and a variety of other weapons.⁠ I eventually stopped training and moved on to other things, but my interest in self-defense has resurfaced. It’s hard to say why. No doubt receiving occasional death threats and other strange communications has been a factor. But I think that having a family has played a much larger role. I now feel acutely responsible for the safety of those closest to me.

In my experience, most people do not want to think about the reality of human violence. I have friends who sleep with their front doors unlocked and who would never consider receiving instruction in self-defense. For them, gun ownership seems like an ugly and uncivilized flirtation with paranoia. Happily, most of these people will never encounter violence in any form. And good luck will make their unconcern seem perfectly justified.

But here are the numbers: In 2010, there were 403.6 violent crimes per 100,000 persons in the United States. (The good news: This is an overall decrease of 13.4 percent from the level in 2001.) Thus, the average American has a 1 in 250 chance of being robbed, assaulted, raped, or murdered each year. Actually, the chance is probably greater than this, because we know that certain crimes, such as assault and rape, are underreported.

Of course, your risks vary depending on who you are and where you live. In Compton, one of the more dangerous parts of Los Angeles, your chances of experiencing violent crime in 2010 were 1 in 71; if you lived in Beverly Hills they were 1 in 458. Still, even in good neighborhoods, the likelihood of being attacked is hardly remote. In the comparative safety of Beverly Hills, assuming the crime rate stays constant, the probability that you will be robbed, assaulted, raped or murdered at some point over the next 30 years is 1 in 16. (The average risk in the U.S. is 1 in 9; in Compton it’s better than 1 in 3.) Again, these statistics surely paint too rosy a picture, because many crimes go unreported.

It may seem onerous to prepare yourself and your family to respond to violence, but not doing so is also a form of preparation. Failing to prepare is, generally speaking, preparing very well to do the wrong thing. Although most of us are good at recognizing danger, our instincts often lead us to behave in ways that increase our chances of being injured or killed once a threat emerges.

Why can’t civilized people like ourselves simply rely on the police? Well, look around you: Do you see a cop? Unless you happen to be a police officer yourself, or are married to one, you are very unlikely to be attacked in the presence of law enforcement. The role of the police is to respond in the aftermath of a crime and, with a little luck, to catch the person who committed it. If you are ever targeted by a violent predator, whether you and your family are injured or killed will depend on what you do in the first moments of the encounter.⁠ When it comes to survival, therefore, you are entirely on your own. Once you escape and are in a safe place, by all means call the police. But dialing 911 when an intruder has broken into your home is not a strategy for self-defense.[2]

However, instruction in self-defense need not consume your life. The most important preparations are mental. While I certainly recommend that you receive some physical training, merely understanding the dynamics of violence can make you much safer than you might otherwise be.


The rest: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the- ... -violence/
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Re: Do you own a firearm?

Postby justdrew » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:15 am

well, about the locked doors thing... It's said that most of the door locks are there to keep honest people honest. Look how easy it is to open many of them...

lock bumping
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Re: Do you own a firearm?

Postby Stephen Morgan » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:58 am

Why bother picking a lock when the whole house is covered in easily smashed windows? If you want your building to keep out thieves, go and buy a castle.

As for guns, certainly buy one if you don't value your lack of bullet holes. Among American police most gun-related injuries are caused by police weapons, shooting themselves, shooting each other, being shot with police weapons taken by criminals. And that's with training and a near erotic fascination with the firearm, not to mention constant interaction with armed American outlaws. Think you can do better?
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: Do you own a firearm?

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:37 pm

It's like children, to me: if you're smart enough to realize you shouldn't have them, you're pretty much obligated to have them.
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Re: Do you own a firearm?

Postby Simulist » Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:32 pm

Do you own a firearm?

No. Though I do own several non-lethal weapons, which I much prefer, and a nice broadsword in the unlikely event that an intruder might need to become a head shorter.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
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Re: Do you own a firearm?

Postby justdrew » Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:21 pm

Simulist wrote:
Do you own a firearm?

No. Though I do own several non-lethal weapons, which I much prefer, and a nice broadsword in the unlikely event that an intruder might need to become a head shorter.


heh, I do have a dull katana, a broken sharp pool cue (for vampires lol), a nasty long hollow steal pole with deep screw threads at each end, and a couple bamboo wailing sticks for good measure. but they just sit in various corners doing nothing.
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Re: Do you own a firearm?

Postby Elvis » Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:40 pm

Stephen Morgan wrote:Among American police most gun-related injuries are caused by police weapons, shooting themselves


Just a funny story...
Here in my college town, for years--decades---the campus cops begged to have guns. Finally in the '90s their fond wish was granted.

About a week later, I saw the captain, with whom I shared a passing acquaintance, in a store, wearing a bandage & splint on his hand. I asked him, "What happened?"

He looked at the floor and sheepishly muttered, "Oh...I shot myself."

I teased him and he took it well (imagine the merciless ribbing from his fellow cops).



Moral? When cleaning semiauto?---please to take out round in chamber.
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Re: Do you own a firearm?

Postby ShinShinKid » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:31 pm

Yes, and I would recommend the responsible ownership of such tools.
Yes, they make a shotgun/ rifle combination weapon...it's called an over-under...they make one that's a .22 rifle and a .410 shotgun, perfect for bird hunting. For SHTF stuff think two .22 semiauto rifles with large drums or several large clips. The rounds have a greater chance of penetrating a kevlar vest the zombies are sure to be wearing, the bullets are also faster, in a game of milliseconds, your bullets reaching the target first will matter...and ammunition is cheap, easy to get, and even easy to make yourself.
If you want to be taken REALLY seriously by the wandering hordes, google Saiga semi-auto shotgun...You can own one in the states, think 20 round drum, solid slug 12-guage that looks and feels like the AK Wombaticus recommends.
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Re: Do you own a firearm?

Postby ninakat » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:18 pm

Here's a older thread on the subject.... I was considering a firearm then (2008) but still haven't "gone there".... and still think the term "shit-magnet" applies.

A gun
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19730
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Re: Do you own a firearm?

Postby Six Hits of Sunshine » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:04 pm

ninakat wrote:Here's a older thread on the subject.... I was considering a firearm then (2008) but still haven't "gone there".... and still think the term "shit-magnet" applies.

A gun
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... =8&t=19730


Thanks for that. Now I don't feel so bat shit crazy for posing the question.
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Re: Do you own a firearm?

Postby Six Hits of Sunshine » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:07 pm

ShinShinKid wrote:Yes, and I would recommend the responsible ownership of such tools.
Yes, they make a shotgun/ rifle combination weapon...it's called an over-under...they make one that's a .22 rifle and a .410 shotgun, perfect for bird hunting. For SHTF stuff think two .22 semiauto rifles with large drums or several large clips. The rounds have a greater chance of penetrating a kevlar vest the zombies are sure to be wearing, the bullets are also faster, in a game of milliseconds, your bullets reaching the target first will matter...and ammunition is cheap, easy to get, and even easy to make yourself.
If you want to be taken REALLY seriously by the wandering hordes, google Saiga semi-auto shotgun...You can own one in the states, think 20 round drum, solid slug 12-guage that looks and feels like the AK Wombaticus recommends.


ssk, thanks. i must say I don't hunt animals because I love and respect them too much, but my fear is that at some point humans will be reduced to the life of a sub-animal (see modern prison living for an example of what I mean) so I appreciate your input. Cheers!
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Re: Do you own a firearm?

Postby 82_28 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:35 am

The Longform.org Guide to Guns

Great stories about guns and the people who love, hate, and sell them.

Every weekend, Longform.org shares a collection of great stories from its archive with Slate. For daily picks of new and classic nonfiction, check out Longform.org or follow @longformorg on Twitter.
Gun. The way of the gun, as collected by Longform.org


Stockbyte

They’re controversial and closely held; they can be both deadly and lucrative. Here are our favorite stories about guns—from the Kalashnikov to robot-operated weapons—and the notorious (and sometimes stoned) people who traffic them.

Charlton Heston’s Last Stand

Ed Leibowitz • Los Angeles Magazine • February 2001

A profile of the late actor-turned NRA president:

“ ‘Actor! Author! Civil Rights Champion! Patriot!’ the film's narrator cries above the trumpets' blare. ‘He hasn't just spoken the word of God, he's also spent his life defending the freedoms God has given us. Today, with your rights under the fiercest attacks in history, Heston is there.’

“A figure emerges from the wings, more than six feet tall but appearing shorter, his torso inclined forward. Speedo propylene beach slippers make the journey to the podium with hesitant steps. Hip-replacement surgery and old age have dampened the fabled dynamism: no more battles with broadswords; no more chariot races for him. But above the uncertain legs, the chest is still massive, the cheekbones still chiseled, the broken nose as resolute as the NRA eagle on all those baseball caps bobbing above the crowd. As Charlton Heston approaches the microphone, his lungs swell, the vocal cords making their splendid, vibrant music out of ordinary air. ‘I'm inclined to quit while I'm ahead,’ he jokes. ‘But I won't. No!’ ”

The Gun

C.J. Chivers • Esquire • November 2010

Adapting from his book of the same name, Chivers traces how the design and proliferation of small arms, originating from the Pentagon and the Russian army, rerouted the 20th century:

“Since the AK-47, or Kalashnikov, had first surfaced, the American military had dismissed it as cheap and ineffective. But as this new weapon's cracking bursts were heard in battle each day, the Eastern bloc's assault rifle at last captured the Pentagon's attention. It marked the Kremlin's influence on how war was experienced by combatants of limited means — the Kalashnikov-carrying guerrilla, a common man with portable and easy-to-use automatic arms, was now in the field by the tens of thousands, and these men were outgunning American troops. To close the gun gap, the Pentagon rushed the M16 into service.”

Shoot!

Evan Ratliff • The New Yorker • February 2009

Most military experts agree that robots, not people, will inevitably do the fighting in ground wars. In Tennessee, a high-end gunsmith is already there. The story of Jerry Baber and his robot army:

“We sat in a pair of office chairs, and Baber grabbed a radio-signal remote control. He switched on the larger robot, directing it across the concrete floor until the treads bumped against my foot. On an LCD display behind Baber, I could see an image of my leg, transmitted by a camera under the robot’s gun barrel. The gun then pointed at my stomach. He assured me that it was not loaded.”

The Stoner Arms Dealers

Guy Lawson • Rolling Stone • March 2011

How two twentysomethings, equipped with the Internet and weed, ruled the lucrative world of weapons trading ... for a while:

“Packouz and Diveroli had picked the perfect moment to get into the arms business. To fight simultaneous wars in both Afghanistan and Iraq, the Bush administration had decided to outsource virtually every facet of America's military operations, from building and staffing Army bases to hiring mercenaries to provide security for diplomats abroad. After Bush took office, private military contracts soared from $145 billion in 2001 to $390 billion in 2008. Federal contracting rules were routinely ignored or skirted, and military-industrial giants like Raytheon and Lockheed Martin cashed in as war profiteering went from war crime to business model. Why shouldn't a couple of inexperienced newcomers like Packouz and Diveroli get in on the action? After all, the two friends were after the same thing as everyone else in the arms business — lots and lots and lots of money.”

The Secret History of Guns

Adam Winkler • Atlantic • September 2011

On America’s relationship with the right to bear arms, from the founding fathers to the Black Panthers and the Ku Klux Klan:

“The Text of the the Second Amendment is maddeningly ambiguous. It merely says, ‘A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.’ Yet to each side in the gun debate, those words are absolutely clear.

“Gun-rights supporters believe the amendment guarantees an individual the right to bear arms and outlaws most gun control. Hard-line gun-rights advocates portray even modest gun laws as infringements on that right and oppose widely popular proposals — such as background checks for all gun purchasers — on the ground that any gun-control measure, no matter how seemingly reasonable, puts us on the slippery slope toward total civilian disarmament.”

Arms and the Man

Peter Landesman • New York Times Magazine • August 2003

The author sits down with notorious (and recently convicted) arms dealer Viktor Bout, Bout’s brother, and a close friend:

“Bout, who is 36, six feet tall and somewhat expansive in girth, nimbly made his way through the crowded lounge. He didn't shake my hand as much as grip it, with a firm nod. Icy blue eyes like chips of glass punctuated a baby face. We sat on one of the lounge's dingy couches, and he placed a thick folder of papers on his lap.

“ ‘Look, here is the biggest arms dealer in the world,' Chichakli said, half mocking me and half mocking Bout. Bout opened his blazer. 'I don't see any guns,' he said with a shrug. Then Sergei raised his arms. ‘None here either.’ (Both spoke excellent English.) ‘Maybe I should start an arms-trafficking university and teach a course on U.N. sanctions busting,’ Victor Bout said. The brothers looked at each other and laughed.”

Could You Forgive the Man Who Shot You in the Face?

Michael J. Mooney • D Magazine • October 2011

In the days after 9/11, Mark Stroman went on a revenge killing spree in Texas. Rais Bhuiyan survived and, a decade later, tried to stop Stroman’s execution:

“The first thing 27-year-old Rais Bhuiyan (pronounced Boo-yon) did when he got to the Texaco station every day was read the headlines in the Dallas Morning News. On September 17, 2001, he read something terrifying: a convenience store clerk had been shot and killed a few blocks away. Bhuiyan begged his boss, the owner of the station, to reinstall the security cameras—he’d already received a few tense glares in the days after 9/11—but money was tight. Bhuiyan had dreams in which customers suddenly pulled out guns and started shooting at him. He had been working at the station in Mesquite for only a few months and he’d already been robbed once. At the time, he thought the man was trying to sell him a handgun.

“ ‘How much?’ Bhuiyan asked when he saw the weapon.

“The man pulled back the hammer with his thumb — click. ‘No, amigo.’ ”


Links to full stories at original. . .

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/long ... m_org.html
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Do you own a firearm?

Postby utopiate » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:46 am

I own two firearms and have a concealed carry permit.
I sometimes think of myself as a gun toting’ liberal but I’m not a gun nut.
A couple of years ago our government was kind enough to give us all $600 without us asking. This is something I don’t ever recall seeing in my lifetime so I figured the shet was about to hit somehow and bought a nice Mossberg 590 marine coated 12 gauge, blinged it with dual pistol grips and a heat shield so I’d look all Rambo when the inevitable hoard of zombies cross some imaginary line I’ve drawn in the sands of my mind. Just in case the zombie hoards don’t show up and it’s just a run of the mill robber/rapist/psycho the first round or two are non-lethal bean bags, the next seven assure that I will be redoing the wallboard whether I miss or not. The other gun is a Glock 26 which is a small enough 9mm to carry somewhat unnoticed, it’s blinged with a laser sight and hopefully the laser blinding them will be enough to make someone think twice.

Things to remember...there are only two places to shoot that will assure that you instantly stop someone. One's in the brain and the other is the cervical spine/neck. Yes, what you see on tv is fake. Even if you shoot someone directly in the heart, they still have about ten seconds to shoot back before reality catches up. They may go down in a heap because of the shock of being shot, but if they’re ornery enough they’ll keep shooting/attacking. Also to remember, even Dirty Harry’s gun won’t lift someone off the ground and throw them back ten feet otherwise it would do the same to you when you fired the gun, it’s an equal and opposite reaction physics thingy.

Good luck deciding either way.
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Re: Do you own a firearm?

Postby RobinDaHood » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:05 pm

I'll start my reply with this...
10-year-old Wash. Boy Defends Mom With BB Gun
BELLINGHAM, Wash. -- Police in Bellingham, Wash., say a 10-year-old boy defended his mother from an attacker by shooting him in the face with a BB rifle as many as four times.

Paul R. Newman, the man accused of the attack, rents a room in the woman's home and came home drunk and angry Tuesday morning. Police say he kicked in a bedroom door and started choking the woman, according to Associated Press.

Officers say the boy hit the attacker with a board and then shot him in the face with the pump-action BB rifle as he grappled with the woman.

The woman and boy were able to flee to a neighbor's home and call for help.

Newman was treated at a hospital and arrested for investigation of assault and making death threats.

The victim, who sustained non-life threatening injuries, was taken to an area hospital for treatment, according to KOMOnews.com.

from-http://www.aol.com/2011/11/23/10yearold-wash-boy-defends-mom-with-bb-gun_n_1110106.html
Everyone here has the RESPONSIBILITY to protect and defend themselves and their loved ones. Repeat after me- I am responsible for myself, and my family and friends' lives and safety. The ten year-old above gets it. In fact, we should probably take up a collection and get the kid one of these...
Image
http://www.ruger.com/products/1022/index.html Let's move the kid up to the big leagues.
Everyone, and I mean everyone should have a 10/22 in the house. If you're on the fence about guns, find someone with a .22 rifle and have them take you out. The satisfaction that will come from learning to enjoy and most likely master the simplest, most user-friendly shooting platform ever devised will change how you think about guns. I've shot a dozen different .22s and have yet to find one that wouldn't take the eraser off a pencil at 50 paces and make me smile doin' it. *WARNING* Shooting can become so enjoyable you may become addicted.
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Re: Do you own a firearm?

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:55 pm

Never thought about loading the shotgun with beanbags, that's fucking brilliant, thank you.
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