The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

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Re: The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

Postby Plutonia » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:03 am

Perfect! I was wondering where to put this ...

I had a flash of insight today while chatting with my boss about neoteny and entrepreneurship - best part of my day lol!

First a bit of background for how neoteny works in humans:
- Neoteny is a "gene-controlled change" in the way individuals mature "where juvenile features are retained into adulthood", as in domesticated animals ie what were wolves become dogs.
- Cold climates tend to encourage neotic development, possibly because harsh winters encourage cooperative social behaviors ie the community works together to make the children safe from harm.
- Unsafe conditions for children discourage neotic development.
- Physical features of neotic development in humans include hairlessness; round head; flat face and short nose; evenly distributed subcutaneous fat; epicanthic eyelid fold and increased brain size/intelligence ie the Asian and Mongoloid races - that includes North American Natives, particularly from the north ie the Inuit, Cree and Dene etc.
- Because of the Roman Empire and later, Holy Roman Empire, contemporary Northern Europeans have their ideological and sociological roots in southern climes ie the Mediterranean and Middle East, where cooperative behaviors with regard to child safety were less urgent.
- Psychological neoteny (a different beast that occurs independent of physical neoteny) includes features of neuronal plasticity ie adult learning and adaptability; youthful behavior and attitudes; delayed maturation and inventiveness.
- And I posit another form of developmental neoteny - one that is engendered by an environment of unaccountable privilege, which could be seen as maladaptive, but which in practical terms imposes a correcting effect - more on that later.

The most neotenic people on the planet are the East Asians and the most neotenic East Asians are the Koreans, who have the most subcutaneous fat, 19 followed closely by the Han Chinese and other Mongoloids. 20 Just like babies, East Asians have a round head with a flat chubby face, a small nose, short arms and legs, very little body hair, and extra fat evenly distributed over their entire body. Their “third eyelid” (epicanthic fold) and smaller eye sockets help to protect their eyes from the cold. Clearly, these people evolved to live in a cold climate and, since they became so neotenic, that suggests that neoteny was advantageous in that climate. (Chap. 4, Rule 11).

http://erectuswalksamongst.us/Chap6.html


So imagine the social dynamics of these neotic effects interacting with each other within a Capitalist system which manipulates insecurity and competition for those at the bottom (think Industrial Revolution) and which elevates and protects privilege for those at the top...

Theoretically, those at the bottom should revert to more feral and even predatory antecedent features, right?

Right.

Psychohistory: The Childhood Origins of World War II and the Holocaust by Lloyd deMause

Infant mortality in Bavaria, where breastfeeding was rare, was given as 58% and was probably closer to 75%, which means almost every child watched their mothers strangle or otherwise kill their siblings when born.6 Mothers were described as being without remorse as they killed their newborn.7 Children routinely saw dead babies in sewers, on roads and in streams as they played.8 From early childhood on, German children experienced in direct form the terror of seeing babies killed without remorse by their Killer Mothers,
http://www.psychohistory.com/originsofw ... igins.html


That was Germany a generation or two before Hitler. (Ground zero of the Protestant Reformation, BTW, which provided the moral justification of Capitalist exploitation ie The Work Ethic.

That's an extreme example, but if you wanted to breed feral, predatory human beings, according to these theories of neotic development, conditions of communal, health, food and housing insecurity, competitiveness and endemic child abuse, would do it.

As for Psychological Neotenic features, recent history gives this example within the sciences one or two generations into the establishment of the Welfare State, where conditions for a large set of Western children improved (through the struggle of their progenitors) to include freedom from labour, food security and extended education (several years rather than none or few) - conditions which could be simplified to "some competition, some cooperation and generally assured survival":

The rise of the boy-genius: psychological neoteny, science and modern life. Medical Hypotheses. 2006;

The mid twentieth century saw the rise of mathematicians and physicists who looked and behaved in a markedly youthful style, and this boy-genius stereotype spread to include most other branches of science. My suspicion is that that a personality type characterized by prolonged youthfulness is advantageous not just in science, but in most areas of modern life due to its need for flexible specialization. We are witnessing the evolution of ‘psychological-neoteny’, in which ever-more people retain for ever-longer the characteristic behaviours and attitudes of earlier developmental stages.

http://www.hedweb.com/bgcharlton/ed-boygenius.html

And what about the other end of the spectrum, the realm of the beneficiaries of Empire - those whose privileged and cosseted lives are maintained by the exploitation of the under classes, for whom there is no competition? Well, look around. Look at George Bush Jr. It'll be obvious to you once you consider what can be said about the failed elite of the British Empire:

Image
(That's from this book, an anthology of Northern European essayists:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=hiOvQjI ... &q&f=false)

Anmd that's the class of infantilized "rulers" satirized by PG Wodehouse in his Jeeves and Wooster stories- adult children practically and emotionally dependent on their superior (intellectually and otherwise) servant/parents:


In this context, it's possible to interpret the tradition of harsh, competitive, boarding and military schooling of the predatory British ruling class as an attempt to counter-act the neotic incapacitation that was evident in their children.

So that's the third for of neotic development - an infanilizing mechanism that ensures that predatory rule is not heritable and that abuses and exploitation will breed an underclass of usurpers.

Ha!
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Re: The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

Postby Nordic » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:32 am

Plutonia wrote:
Psychohistory: The Childhood Origins of World War II and the Holocaust by Lloyd deMause

Infant mortality in Bavaria, where breastfeeding was rare, was given as 58% and was probably closer to 75%, which means almost every child watched their mothers strangle or otherwise kill their siblings when born.6 Mothers were described as being without remorse as they killed their newborn.7 Children routinely saw dead babies in sewers, on roads and in streams as they played.8 From early childhood on, German children experienced in direct form the terror of seeing babies killed without remorse by their Killer Mothers,
http://www.psychohistory.com/originsofw ... igins.html


That was Germany a generation or two before Hitler. (Ground zero of the Protestant Reformation, BTW, which provided the moral justification of Capitalist exploitation ie The Work Ethic.




:shock:

Really? This might deserve its own thread. Wow.
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Re: The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

Postby Plutonia » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:43 am

Nordic wrote:
Plutonia wrote:
Psychohistory: The Childhood Origins of World War II and the Holocaust by Lloyd deMause

Infant mortality in Bavaria, where breastfeeding was rare, was given as 58% and was probably closer to 75%, which means almost every child watched their mothers strangle or otherwise kill their siblings when born.6 Mothers were described as being without remorse as they killed their newborn.7 Children routinely saw dead babies in sewers, on roads and in streams as they played.8 From early childhood on, German children experienced in direct form the terror of seeing babies killed without remorse by their Killer Mothers,
http://www.psychohistory.com/originsofw ... igins.html


That was Germany a generation or two before Hitler. (Ground zero of the Protestant Reformation, BTW, which provided the moral justification of Capitalist exploitation ie The Work Ethic.




:shock:

Really? This might deserve its own thread. Wow.


If i remember correctly, Lloyd deMause's psychohistory has come up in other threads, Nordic, but his analysis certainly warrants inclusion in this one.
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Re: The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

Postby Nordic » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:48 am

Oh, absolutely. I wasn't inferring that it didn't belong here, it was just something that shocked me and was something I wanted to delve into more.

Now I've got up a book from one of her citations, THE NAZI DOCTORS: Medical Killing and the Psychology of Genocide. I'm hesitating to go there.

Makes your basic Wall Street psychopath look pretty benign by comparison.
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Re: The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

Postby Plutonia » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:54 am

Nordic wrote:Oh, absolutely. I wasn't inferring that it didn't belong here, it was just something that shocked me and was something I wanted to delve into more.

Now I've got up a book from one of her citations, THE NAZI DOCTORS: Medical Killing and the Psychology of Genocide. I'm hesitating to go there.

Makes your basic Wall Street psychopath look pretty benign by comparison.

Not really, if you think about Afghanistan, Iraq and the whole of Africa.
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Re: The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

Postby Elvis » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:36 am

Plutonia wrote:In this context, it's possible to interpret the tradition of harsh, competitive, boarding and military schooling of the predatory British ruling class as an attempt to counter-act the neotic incapacitation that was evident in their children.


Fascinating post, thanks!

In the 1960s, a friend's parents sent him to a well-known British-style boarding school in Canada (a natural thing for his Oxford-bred British father to do). Highlights of his time there include 'hiding under the bed in terror while the son of the prime minister of such-and-such country raped the son of the chairman of such-and-such corporation.' (His brother was molested by headmasters in a similar Canadian "British style" boarding school.) He got out of there and refused to go back, and has ever since stood with the underclass.

Plutonia wrote:the class of infantilized "rulers" satirized by PG Wodehouse in his Jeeves and Wooster stories- adult children practically and emotionally dependent on their superior (intellectually and otherwise) servant/parents


Quigley in "Tragedy and Hope" talked about elites' relationship to servants and other working-class people, contrasting them with the grasping middle class. (Quigley of course was made famous by the Bircher right who still cite his 'exposé' as their proof of an Establishment/Communist plot etc., so I just want to say it's a boss book but I hope it's self-evident I'm not a Bircher, k.)

Strangely enough, the non-middle classes had more characteristics in common with each other than they did with the middle classes in their midst. The chief reason for this was that all other groups had value systems different from the middle classes and, above all, placed no emphasis on display of material affluence as proof of social status. From this came a number of somewhat similar qualities and attitudes that often gave the non-middle-class groups more in common and easier social intercourse than any of them had with the middle classes. For example, all placed much more emphasis on real personal qualities and much less on such things as clothing, residence, academic background, or kind of transportation used (all of which were important in determining middle-class reactions to people). In a sense all were more sincere, personally more secure (not the Lumpenproletariat), and less hypocritical than the middle class, and accordingly were much more inclined to judge any new acquaintance on his merits.
...
Another good evidence of class may be seen in the treatment given to servants (or those who work in one's home): the lower classes treat these as equals, the middle classes treat them as inferiors, while aristocrats treat them as equals or even superiors.

(a butchered scan of the book is at: real-world-news.org/bk-quigley/20.html#74)


The madness of American society is the universal middle-class aspiration to join the sociopatholigarchy, manifested partly in that "display of material affluence as proof of social status." Reading over that chapter after 20 years, I see some relevant background:

The character of any society is determined less by what it is actually like than by the picture it has of itself and of what it aspires to be. From this point of view, American society of the 1920's was largely middle class. Its values and aspirations were middle class, and power or influence within it was in the hands of middle-class people. On the whole, this was regarded as proper, except by iconoclastic writers who gained fortune and reputation simply by satirizing or criticizing middle-class customs.

To be sure, even the most vigorous defenders of bourgeois America did not pretend that all Americans were middle class: only the more important ones were. But they did see the country as organized in middle-class terms, and they looked forward to a not remote future in which everyone would be middle class, except for a small, shiftless minority of no importance. To these defenders, and probably also to the shiftless minority, American society was regarded as a ladder of opportunity up which anyone could work his way, on rungs of increased affluence, to the supreme positions of wealth and power near the top. Wealth, power, prestige, and respect were all obtained by the same standard, based on money. This in turn was based on a pervasive emotional insecurity that sought relief in the ownership and control of material possessions. The basis for this may be seen most clearly in the origins of this bourgeois middle class.

A thousand years ago, Europe had a two-class society in which a small upper class of nobles and upper clergy were supported by a great mass of peasants. The nobles defended this world, and the clergy opened the way to the next world, while the peasants provided the food and other material needs for the whole society. All three had security in their social relationships in that they occupied positions of social status that satisfied their psychic needs for companionship, economic security, a foreseeable future, and purpose of their efforts. Members of both classes had little anxiety about loss of these things by any likely outcome of events, and all thus had emotional security. [I'm pretty sure it sucked to be an English peasant a thousand years ago, but I accept his point in this context.]

In the course of the medieval period, chiefly in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, this simple two-class society was modified by the intrusion of a small, but distinctly different, new class between them. Because this new class was between, we call it middle class, just as we call it "bourgeois" (after bourg meaning town) from the fact that it resided in towns, a new kind of social aggregate. The two older, established, classes were almost completely rural and intimately associated with the land, economically, socially, and spiritually. The permanence of the land and the intimate connection of the land with the most basic of human needs, especially food, amplified the emotional security associated with the older classes.

The new middle class of bourgeoisie who grew up between the two older classes had none of these things. They were commercial peoples concerned with exchange of goods, mostly luxury goods, in a society where all their prospective customers already had the basic necessities of life provided by their status. The new middle class had no status in a society based on status; they had no security or permanence in a society that placed the highest value on these qualities. They had no law (since medieval law was largely past customs, and their activities were not customary ones) in a society that highly valued law. The flow of the necessities of life, notably food, to the new town dwellers was precarious, so that some of their earliest and most emphatic actions were taken to ensure the flow of such goods from the surrounding country to the town. All the things the bourgeois did were new things; all were precarious, and insecure; and their whole lives were lived without the status, permanence, and security the society of the day most highly valued. The risks (and rewards) of commercial enterprise, well reflected in the fluctuating fortunes of figures such as Antonio in The Merchant of Venice, were extreme. A single venture could ruin a merchant or make him rich. This insecurity was increased by the fact that the prevalent religion of the day disapproved of what he was doing, seeking profits or taking interest, and could see no way of providing religious services to town dwellers because of the intimate association of the ecclesiastical system with the existing arrangement of rural landholding.

For these and other reasons psychic insecurity became the keynote of the new middle-class outlook. It still is. The only remedy for this insecurity of the middle class seemed to it to be the accumulation of more possessions that could be a demonstration to the world of the individual's importance and power. In this way, for the middle class, the general goal of medieval man to seek future salvation in the hereafter was secularized to an effort to seek future security in this world by acquisition of wealth and its accompanying power and social prestige. But the social prestige from wealth was most available among fellow bourgeoisie, rather than among nobles or peasants. Thus the opinions of one's fellow bourgeoisie, by wealth and by conformity to bourgeois values, became the motivating drives of the middle classes, creating what has been called the "acquisitive society."

In that society prudence, discretion, conformity, moderation (except in acquisition), decorum, frugality, became the marks of a sound man. Credit became more important than intrinsic personal qualities, and credit was based on the appearances of things, especially the appearances of the external material accessories of life. The facts of a man's personal qualities—such as kindness, affection, thoughtfulness, generosity, personal insight, and such, were increasingly irrelevant or even adverse to the middle-class evaluation of a man. Instead, the middle-class evaluation rested rather on nonpersonal attributes and on external accessories. Where personal qualities were admired, they were those that contributed to acquisition (often qualities opposed to the established values of the Christian outlook, such as love, charity, generosity, gentleness, or unselfishness). These middle-class qualities included decisiveness, selfishness, impersonality, ruthless energy, and insatiable ambition.

As the middle classes and their commercialization of all human relationships spread through Western society in the centuries from the twelfth to the twentieth, they largely modified and, to some extent, reversed the values of Western society earlier. In some cases, the old values, such as future preference or self-discipline, remained, but were redirected. Future preference ceased to be transcendental in its aim, and became secularized. Self-discipline ceased to seek spirituality by restraining sensuality, and instead sought material acquisition. In general, the new middle-class outlook had a considerable religious basis, but it was the religion of the medieval heresies and of puritanism rather than the religion of Roman Christianity.

This complex outlook that we call middle class or bourgeois is, of course, the chief basis of our world today. Western society is the richest and most powerful society that has ever existed largely because it has been impelled forward along these lines, beyond the rational degree necessary to satisfy human needs, by the irrational drive for achievement in terms of material ambitions. To be sure, Western society always had other kinds of people, and the majority of the people in Western society probably had other outlooks and values, but it was middle-class urgency that pushed modern developments in the direction they took. There were always in our society dreamers and truth-seekers and tinkerers. They, as poets, scientists, and engineers, thought up innovations which the middle classes adopted and exploited if they seemed likely to be profit-producing. Middle-class self-discipline and future preference provided the savings and investment without which any innovation—no matter how appealing in theory—would be set aside and neglected. But the innovations that could attract middle-class approval (and exploitation) were the ones that made our world today so different from the world of our grandparents and ancestors.

This middle-class character was imposed most strongly on the United States. In order to identify it and to discuss a very complex pattern of outlooks and values, we shall try to summarize it. At its basis is psychic insecurity founded on lack of secure social status. The cure for such insecurity became insatiable material acquisition. From this flowed a large number of attributes of which we shall list only five: future preference, self-discipline, social conformity, infinitely expandable material demand, and a general emphasis on externalized, impersonal values.

Those who have this outlook are middle class; those who lack it are something else. Thus middle-class status is a matter of outlook and not a matter of occupation or status. There can be middle-class clergy or teachers or scientists. Indeed, in the United States, most of these three groups are middle class, although their theoretical devotion to truth rather than to profit, or to others rather than to self, might seem to imply that they should not be middle class. And, indeed, they should not be; for the urge to seek truth or to help others are not really compatible with the middle-class values. But in our culture the latter have been so influential and pervasive, and the economic power of middle-class leaders has been so great, that many people whose occupations, on the face of it, should make them other than middle class, none the less have adopted major parts of the middle-class outlook and seek material success in religion or teaching or science.

The middle-class outlook, born in the Netherlands and northern Italy and other places in the medieval period, has been passed on by being inculcated to children as the proper attitude for them to emulate. It could pass on from generation to generation, and from century to century, as long as parents continued to believe it themselves and disciplined their children to accept it. The minority of children who did not accept it were "disowned" and fell out of the middle classes. What is even more important, they were, until recently, pitied and rejected by their families. In this way, those who accepted the outlook marched on in the steadily swelling ranks of the triumphant middle classes.


The lower, working class, he sets apart from the others as the only sane group in the bunch:

The working class in the United States is much smaller than we might assume, since most American workers are seeking to rise socially, to help their children to rise socially, and are considerably concerned with status symbols. Such people, even if laborers, are not working class, but are rather petty bourgeoisie. The real working class are rather relaxed, have present rather than future preference, generally worry very little about their status in the eyes of the world, enjoy their ordinary lives, including food, sex, and leisure, and have little desire to change their jobs or positions. They are generally relaxed, have a taste for broad humor, are natural, direct, and friendly, without large basic insecurities of personality. The world depression, by destroying their jobs and economic security, much reduced this group, which was always proportionately smaller in America, the land of aspiration for everyone, than in Europe.



Plutonia, I read the very engaging essay about the "cretinous stupidity of the English ruling class" and thought you'd find this interesting (also from "Tragedy and Hope"), and it echoes that theme of the "ascended" middle class, in this case in Britain:

...This idea of "unfairness," or, on its positive side, "fair play," is a concept which is very largely Anglo-Saxon and which is largely based on the class structure of England as it existed up to the early twentieth century. This class structure was clearly envisioned in the minds of Englishmen and was so completely accepted that it was assumed without need to be explicitly stated. In this structure, Britain was regarded as divided into two groups the "classes" and the "masses." The "classes" were the ones who had leisure. This meant that they had property and income. On this basis, they did not need to work for a living; they obtained an education in a separate and expensive system; they married within their own class; they had a distinctive accent; and, above all, they had a distinctive attitude. This attitude was based on the training provided in the special educational system of the "classes." It might be summed up in the statement that "methods are more important than goals" except that this group regarded the methods and manners in which they acted as goals or closely related to goals.

This educational system was based on three great negatives, not easily understood by Americans. These were (a) education must not be vocational—that is, aimed at assisting one to make living; (b) education is not aimed directly at creating or training the intelligence; and (c) education is not aimed at finding the "Truth." On its positive side, the system of education of the "classes" displayed its real nature on the school level rather than on the university level. It aimed at developing a moral outlook, a respect for traditions, qualities of leadership and cooperation, and above all, perhaps, that ability for cooperation in competition summed up in the English idea of "sport" and "playing the game." Because of the restricted numbers of the upper class in Britain, these attitudes applied chiefly to one another, and did not necessarily apply to foreigners or even to the masses. They applied to people who "belonged," and not to all human beings.

The functioning of the British parliamentary system depended to a very great extent on the possession by the members of Parliament of this attitude. Until the end of the nineteenth century, most members of Parliament, coming from the same class background, had this attitude. Since then, it has been lost to a considerable extent, in the Conservative Party by the growing influence of businessmen and the declining influence of the older aristocracy, and in the Labour Party by the fact that the majority of its members were never subjected to the formative influences, especially educational, which created this attitude. The loss of this attitude, however, has not been so rapid as one might expect because, in the first place, plutocracy in England has always been closer to aristocracy than in other countries, there being no sharp divisions between the two, with the result that the aristocracy of today is merely the plutocracy of yesterday, admission from the latter group to the former being generally accomplished in one generation through the financial ability of the first generation of wealth to send its children to the select schools of the aristocrats. This process is so general that the number of real aristocrats in Britain is very small, although the number of nominal aristocrats is quite large. This can be observed in the fact that in 1938 more than half of the peerage had been created since 1906, the overwhelming majority for no other reason than recognition of their ability to acquire a fortune. These new peers have aped the older aristocrats, and this has had the effect of keeping the attitudes which allow the constitution to function alive, although it must be confessed that the new businessmen leaders of the Conservative Party (like Baldwin or Chamberlain) displayed a more complete grasp of the forms than of the substance of the old aristocratic attitude.

Within the Labour Party, the majority of whose members have had no opportunity to acquire the attitude necessary to allow the proper functioning of the constitutional system, the problem has been alleviated to a considerable extent by the fact that the members of that party who are of working-class origin have given very wide influence to the small group of party members who were of upper-class origin. The working-class members of the Labour Party have proved very susceptible to what is called the "aristocratic embrace." That is, they have shown a deference to the points of view and above all to the manners and position of the upper classes, and have done so to a degree which would be impossible to find in any country where class lines were not so rigidly drawn as in England. The working-class members of the Labour Party, when they entered Parliament, did not reject the old upper-class methods of action, but on the contrary sought to win upperclass approval and to retain lower-class support by demonstrating that they could run the government as well as the upper class had always done. Thus the business-class leaders of the Conservative Party and the working-class leaders of the Labour Party both consciously sought to imitate the older aristocratic attitude which had given rise to the conventions of parliamentary government. Both failed in essence rather than in appearance, and both failed from lack of real feeling for the aristocratic pattern of thought rather than from any desire to change the conventions.


(This is late in the book when Quigley waxes philosophical, draws conclusions and expresses some old-fashioned opinions with which I often disagree. He was, after all, an essentially 'conservative' elite educator and historian, writing in the mid '60s. In any case, here I think he's on solid ground.)


Finally, considering the current campaign circus, I can't resist adding this somewhat off-topic tidbit, one of Quigley's many notes on the two-party illusion of choice, from the same chapter quoted above:

In these terms the political struggle in the United States has shifted in two ways, or even three. This struggle, in the minds of the ill informed, had always been viewed as a struggle between Republicans and Democrats at the ballot box in November. Wall Street, long ago, however, had seen that the real struggle was in the nominating conventions the preceding summer.
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Re: The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

Postby gnosticheresy_2 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:16 am

The real working class are rather relaxed, have present rather than future preference, generally worry very little about their status in the eyes of the world, enjoy their ordinary lives, including food, sex, and leisure, and have little desire to change their jobs or positions. They are generally relaxed, have a taste for broad humor, are natural, direct, and friendly, without large basic insecurities of personality.


:rofl: are they indeed? I'm guessing the author's experience of the "real working class" was somewhat limited.

<edit: tense>
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Re: The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

Postby Elvis » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:12 am

gnosticheresy_2 wrote:
The real working class are rather relaxed, have present rather than future preference, generally worry very little about their status in the eyes of the world, enjoy their ordinary lives, including food, sex, and leisure, and have little desire to change their jobs or positions. They are generally relaxed, have a taste for broad humor, are natural, direct, and friendly, without large basic insecurities of personality.


:rofl: are they indeed? I'm guessing the author's experience of the "real working class" was somewhat limited.

<edit: tense>


Well, as I say, Quigley "was, after all, an essentially 'conservative' elite educator and historian, writing in the mid '60s," so his experience with working schmucks was probably limited. I dunno, actually.

But I think he's generally right (and he says generally twice in the two sentences) about the workaday stiffs, compared to the twisted anxieties of the middle class. I don't think he's patronizing the working class in a "the working classes are happy in their simple way" manner, but actually their simpler life based on simple values probably does make them happier than the nervous, insecure and self-conscious middle-classers, as he defines them.


(Edited...for tense!)
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Re: The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

Postby Sounder » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:49 am

Elvis wrote...
But I think he's generally right (and he says generally twice in the two sentences) about the workaday stiffs, compared to the twisted anxieties of the middle class.


A life that embraces physical work has less inherent need to resort to duplicity in order to achieve objectives.

It also seems like much middle class anxiety is sourced in politics, or lying for strategic purposes, and is bound to be wearing on the psyche.
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Re: The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

Postby gnosticheresy_2 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:53 am

Elvis wrote:
gnosticheresy_2 wrote:
The real working class are rather relaxed, have present rather than future preference, generally worry very little about their status in the eyes of the world, enjoy their ordinary lives, including food, sex, and leisure, and have little desire to change their jobs or positions. They are generally relaxed, have a taste for broad humor, are natural, direct, and friendly, without large basic insecurities of personality.


:rofl: are they indeed? I'm guessing the author's experience of the "real working class" was somewhat limited.

<edit: tense>


Well, as I say, Quigley "was, after all, an essentially 'conservative' elite educator and historian, writing in the mid '60s," so his experience with working schmucks was probably limited. I dunno, actually.

But I think he's generally right (and he says generally twice in the two sentences) about the workaday stiffs, compared to the twisted anxieties of the middle class. I don't think he's patronizing the working class in a "the working classes are happy in their simple way" manner, but actually their simpler life based on simple values probably does make them happier than the nervous, insecure and self-conscious middle-classers, as he defines them.


(Edited...for tense!)


You could equally make the argument that it's the working classes that are nervous, insecure and self-conscious and it's the smug middle classes that are happier and less introspective. Equating working class life with simplicity is deeply dodgy imo, it's the language of the rulers - and as you say, Quigley was a card-carrying member of the elite.
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Re: The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

Postby Elvis » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:19 am

Sounder wrote:You could equally make the argument that it's the working classes that are nervous, insecure and self-conscious and it's the smug middle classes that are happier and less introspective.


If you follow his preceding line of middle class history, I think the stronger argument is that it's they who have wacked values that strain on psyche, as Sounder points out.


gnosticheresy_2 wrote:Equating working class life with simplicity is deeply dodgy imo, it's the language of the rulers


I admit, "simpler life based on simple values" is a facile way of putting it, but I'm sleepy and my brain is halfway to bed. Let's just say that one sense of the word "simple" is "guileless" and I think that a working man, generally, is just simpler that way.
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Re: The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

Postby Plutonia » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:34 pm

Thanks for the input Elvis, I passed it on to my boss who is encountering for the first time the stone-walled enclosure of the middle class without any class analysis (until recently she thought she was on the inside but a couple of recent, perplexing encounters has made her aware that she's on the outside.)

Elvis wrote:
In the 1960s, a friend's parents sent him to a well-known British-style boarding school in Canada (a natural thing for his Oxford-bred British father to do). Highlights of his time there include 'hiding under the bed in terror while the son of the prime minister of such-and-such country raped the son of the chairman of such-and-such corporation.' (His brother was molested by headmasters in a similar Canadian "British style" boarding school.) He got out of there and refused to go back, and has ever since stood with the underclass.

Which one? A friend of mine who dropped out of Queens Univerity described the culture/climate there as abusive and insane.

A couple of points on what Quigley has to say:

Strangely enough, the non-middle classes had more characteristics in common with each other than they did with the middle classes in their midst. The chief reason for this was that all other groups had value systems different from the middle classes and, above all, placed no emphasis on display of material affluence as proof of social status. From this came a number of somewhat similar qualities and attitudes that often gave the non-middle-class groups more in common and easier social intercourse than any of them had with the middle classes. For example, all placed much more emphasis on real personal qualities and much less on such things as clothing, residence, academic background, or kind of transportation used (all of which were important in determining middle-class reactions to people). In a sense all were more sincere, personally more secure (not the Lumpenproletariat), and less hypocritical than the middle class, and accordingly were much more inclined to judge any new acquaintance on his merits.

A good example of how the similar eschewment of wealth display between the highest and lowest classes is the Preppy Handbook, which is, ironically, a durable best seller and inspiration for J Crew and LL Bean's product lines for upwardly aspiring middle-classians:

Image

The new middle class of bourgeoisie who grew up between the two older classes had none of these things. They were commercial peoples concerned with exchange of goods, mostly luxury goods, in a society where all their prospective customers already had the basic necessities of life provided by their status. The new middle class had no status in a society based on status; they had no security or permanence in a society that placed the highest value on these qualities. They had no law (since medieval law was largely past customs, and their activities were not customary ones) in a society that highly valued law. ...

For these and other reasons psychic insecurity became the keynote of the new middle-class outlook. It still is. The only remedy for this insecurity of the middle class seemed to it to be the accumulation of more possessions that could be a demonstration to the world of the individual's importance and power. In this way, for the middle class, the general goal of medieval man to seek future salvation in the hereafter was secularized to an effort to seek future security in this world by acquisition of wealth and its accompanying power and social prestige. But the social prestige from wealth was most available among fellow bourgeoisie, rather than among nobles or peasants. Thus the opinions of one's fellow bourgeoisie, by wealth and by conformity to bourgeois values, became the motivating drives of the middle classes, creating what has been called the "acquisitive society."

An interesting, often overlooked effect of the rise of the merchant class was the establishment and commodification of a market in Fine Art and the elevation of leading artist-producers to celebrity. This was because of the connection of mercantilism to the sin of usury for which the Church required merchants to perform acts of contrition or purchase intercessions. This practice escalated into competitive wealth displays in commissioning high-status artists and architects to build, decorate and embellish Church properties. That was when the practice of signing artworks and assigning importance to the identification of the object with the artist began in the West. The practice also undermined Catholicism in that it engendered widespread institutional corruption, which was a primary impetus for the Protestant Reformation.

See, here it is:
As the middle classes and their commercialization of all human relationships spread through Western society in the centuries from the twelfth to the twentieth, they largely modified and, to some extent, reversed the values of Western society earlier. In some cases, the old values, such as future preference or self-discipline, remained, but were redirected. Future preference ceased to be transcendental in its aim, and became secularized. Self-discipline ceased to seek spirituality by restraining sensuality, and instead sought material acquisition. In general, the new middle-class outlook had a considerable religious basis, but it was the religion of the medieval heresies and of puritanism rather than the religion of Roman Christianity.


But I think there's a more subtle mechanism to explain the value the British ruling class assigned to the practices of "fair play":
...This idea of "unfairness," or, on its positive side, "fair play," is a concept which is very largely Anglo-Saxon and which is largely based on the class structure of England as it existed up to the early twentieth century. This class structure was clearly envisioned in the minds of Englishmen and was so completely accepted that it was assumed without need to be explicitly stated. In this structure, Britain was regarded as divided into two groups the "classes" and the "masses." The "classes" were the ones who had leisure. This meant that they had property and income. On this basis, they did not need to work for a living; they obtained an education in a separate and expensive system; they married within their own class; they had a distinctive accent; and, above all, they had a distinctive attitude. This attitude was based on the training provided in the special educational system of the "classes." It might be summed up in the statement that "methods are more important than goals" except that this group regarded the methods and manners in which they acted as goals or closely related to goals.

This educational system was based on three great negatives, not easily understood by Americans. These were (a) education must not be vocational—that is, aimed at assisting one to make living; (b) education is not aimed directly at creating or training the intelligence; and (c) education is not aimed at finding the "Truth." On its positive side, the system of education of the "classes" displayed its real nature on the school level rather than on the university level. It aimed at developing a moral outlook, a respect for traditions, qualities of leadership and cooperation, and above all, perhaps, that ability for cooperation in competition summed up in the English idea of "sport" and "playing the game." Because of the restricted numbers of the upper class in Britain, these attitudes applied chiefly to one another, and did not necessarily apply to foreigners or even to the masses. They applied to people who "belonged," and not to all human beings.


According to Rene Girard's theory of mimetic desire, the contagious nature of desire ensures competitive reactions whenever desire is present, and that the fiercest competitions will be between those who are most alike: You and I are friends. I see that you desire X. I feel your desire for X. There being only one object of desire, X, I am now in competition with you to acquire X. Now I am your enemy.

So institutionalization of "fair play" attitudes and behaviors is a stabilizing social adaptation of the class, mitigating the danger of counter-productive competitive rivalries - a socially imposed, secular sort of state of desirelessness, if you will.

You shall not covet the house of your neighbor. You shall not covet the wife of your neighbor, nor his male or female slave, nor his ox or ass, nor anything that belongs to him. (Exod. 20:17)

If individuals are naturally inclined to desire what their neighbors possess, or to desire what their neighbors even simply desire, this means that rivalry exists at the very heart of human social relations. This rivalry, if not thwarted, would permanently endanger the harmony and even the survival of all human communities. Rivalistic desires are all the more overwhelming since they reinforce one another. The principle of reciprocal escalation and one-upmanship governs this type of conflict. This phenomenon is so common, so well known to us, and so contrary to our concept of ourselves, thus so humiliating, that we prefer to remove it from consciousness and act as if it did not exist. But all the while we know it does exist. This indifference to the threat of runaway conflict is a luxury that small ancient societies could not afford.

The commandment that prohibits desiring the goods of one's neighbor attempts to resolve the number one problem of every human community: internal violence.

In reading the tenth commandment one has the impression of being present at the intellectual process of its elaboration. To prevent people from fighting, the lawgiver seeks at first to forbid all the objects about which they ceaselessly fight, and he decides to make a list of these. However, he quickly perceives that the objects are too numerous: he cannot enumerate all of them. So he interrupts himself in the process, gives up focusing on the objects that keep changing anyway, and he turns to what never changes. Or rather, he turns to that one who is always present, the neighbor. One always desires whatever belongs to that one, the neighbor.

Since the objects we should not desire and nevertheless do desire always belong to the neighbor, it is clearly the neighbor who renders them desirable. In the formulation of the prohibition, the neighbor must take the place of the objects, and indeed he does take their place in the last phrase of the sentence that prohibits no longer objects enumerated one by one but "anything that belongs to him [the neighbor]." What the tenth commandment sketches, without defining it explicitly, is a fundamental revolution in the understanding of desire. We assume that desire is objective or subjective, but in reality it rests on a third party who gives value to the objects. This third party is usually the one who is closest, the neighbor. To maintain peace between human beings, it is essential to define prohibitions in light of this extremely significant fact: our neighbor is the model for our desires. This is what I call mimetic desire. (1)

Mimetic desire does not always result in conflict, but it frequently does so for reasons that the tenth commandment makes evident. The object I desire in envious imitation of my neighbor is one he intends to keep for himself, to reserve for her own use; she will not let someone snatch it away without combat. My desire will be thwarted, but in place of accepting this and moving on toward another object, nine times out of ten my desire will resist this and become even more intense in imitating the desire of its model.

http://girardianlectionary.net/res/iss_1-scandal.htm


And that's anathema to the middle class, making it an inherently unstable social arrangement.
[the British] government always kept a kind of standing army of news writers who without any regard to truth, or to what should be like truth, invented & put into the papers whatever might serve the minister

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Re: The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

Postby Elvis » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:28 pm

Plutonia, thanks for your considered comments and elaboration.

Plutonia wrote:
Elvis wrote:

In the 1960s, a friend's parents sent him to a well-known British-style boarding school in Canada (a natural thing for his Oxford-bred British father to do). Highlights of his time there include 'hiding under the bed in terror while the son of the prime minister of such-and-such country raped the son of the chairman of such-and-such corporation.' (His brother was molested by headmasters in a similar Canadian "British style" boarding school.) He got out of there and refused to go back, and has ever since stood with the underclass.


Which one?


Upper Canada College.

Founded in 1829 by Lieutenant Governor of Upper Canada Sir John Colborne, UCC is the oldest independent school in the province of Ontario,[3][4] the third oldest in the country, and is described as one of Canada's most prestigious preparatory schools,[5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13] having many of Canada's most powerful and wealthy as graduates.[3][13][14] Modelled on the British public schools, throughout the first part of its history the college both influenced and was influenced by government and maintained a reputation as a Tory bastion from its founding. However, UCC is today fully independent and the student and faculty populations are diverse in terms of cultural and economic backgrounds. A link to Canada's royal family is maintained through Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, who is the college's Official Visitor and a member of the Board of Governors.[15]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Canada_College

Oh, and looky here:

Scandals

Upper Canada College has had a number of incidents in the decade following 1998 where staff were accused of statutory rape or of possessing child pornography. Only three ended in convictions. In early February 2007, the school mailed a letter to the entire UCC community apologizing for the sexual and physical abuse at the school and referring to the abuse of students as the most difficult issue the school has had to face in its 177-year history.[36]

Clark Winton Noble

In 1998, Clark Winton Noble ("Knobby") was convicted of sexual assault stemming from an event that occurred in 1988 against a student at Appleby College where he was teaching.[37] At that time he also admitted to an earlier attack on a UCC student in 1971, when he was a teacher at the school, though he was never convicted of that crime as the charges were withdrawn.[38] The incident occurred off-campus, and the student never notified the school of what went on until Noble had resigned from the College. After learning of what went on, UCC informed Noble's subsequent employer and the Toronto Police.[39]

Doug Brown

In 2003, UCC was embroiled in a very public class action lawsuit brought by eighteen students, led by a former pupil, who sued the school over sexual abuse by Doug Brown, a member of the faculty who taught history, geography and English at the prep school from 1975 until 1993.[40] In October 2004, Doug Brown was found guilty of nine counts of indecent assault, while a housemaster and teacher at UCC.[41] In January 2005, he was sentenced to three years in jail. An appeal is currently in the works. A resolution process was agreed upon to resolve the lawsuit. In a media release, UCC has announced that they "continue to offer [their] support to those who were victims of abuse at the College, and [they] are committed to a fair process for determining the school's responsibility to compensate those who were victimized by Doug Brown."[41]

Ashley Chivers

In 2003, UCC graduate, and later teaching assistant, Ashley Chivers, then 28, who had been working at the school since 1996, was arrested on child pornography charges after police (acting on a tip from California law enforcement) found evidence of criminal images on his home computers.[42] Chivers' duties at UCC included taking pictures at school events, though after a search of the 6,000 illegal images in his possession, Toronto police confirmed no UCC students, past or present, were evident. Chivers was convicted of one count of possessing child pornography, but not creating it, and was given an 18-month conditional sentence in October, 2004.[43]

Lorne Cook

Lorne Cook, a teacher at UCC from 1978 to 1994, who was found guilty on October 12, 2006, of two counts of sexual assault on UCC students in 1991 and 1993. He was acquitted of one count of indecent assault and one count of sexual interference. The judge told the court that Cook touched his pupils inappropriately as a way to control and abuse the students without their consent, saying Cook has abused his "significant power in a way that violated the sexual integrity" of his pupils, and not for reasons of sexual gratification. In the November 2006 sentencing, he was spared jail time and instead sentenced to house arrest.[44]

In response to the allegations put forward, UCC formed a review team to assess school policies, and create new ones, under the direction of Sydney Robins, QC, a former Justice of the Court of Appeal for Ontario, and author of Protecting Our Students: A Review to Identify and Prevent Sexual Misconduct in Ontario Schools.[45]

Adam Grant

On August 5, 2008, Adam Grant, a Security employee who worked at UCC for several years, was arrested for possession of child pornography. He was a security employee.[46]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Upper_Canada_College#Scandals

And I'm sure there's more, no time just now to look.

My friend who witnessed the horsing around sexual attacks and beatings carried out by "tomorrow's leaders" says this was tolerated (probably encouraged) by the administrators as long as they didn't have to answer for any of it. Of course, students (in his day, anyway) faced whippings from the headmasters as well.

Interesting: on the UCC website (http://www.ucc.on.ca), next to a cheery cartoon holiday greeting, is an "In the News" link to a story about of a student who "aims to break the chains of child sex slavery."

The last line of their mission statement is, "Graduates depart with more than knowledge: they leave with confidence and an appreciation of the role they may play in shaping tomorrow." Ah, there's that British elite confidence.
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Re: The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

Postby Nordic » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:58 pm

Sounder wrote:A life that embraces physical work has less inherent need to resort to duplicity in order to achieve objectives.

It also seems like much middle class anxiety is sourced in politics, or lying for strategic purposes, and is bound to be wearing on the psyche.


Sounder, I think that's a brilliant insight.

In the entertainment business I have worked both above the line, which is the term for people who aren't basically doing some kind of craft that involved labor at an hourly rate, and above the line, which is management as well as the intellectual property holders such as the writers directors and actors. I prefer the company of the below the line people for the very reason you mention. And even if they're just knucklehead guys who never went to college and want nothing more out of life than to rebuild that old car, have their team win, and go on a good vacation once a year, they are far happier, honest, and probably psychologically healthier than the above the line folks, where it seems you constantly have to be fooling people into convincing them you are one of these things that anyone can CLAIM to be.
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Re: The Sociopatholigarchy Thread

Postby crikkett » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:22 pm

gnosticheresy_2 wrote:
You could equally make the argument that it's the working classes that are nervous, insecure and self-conscious and it's the smug middle classes that are happier and less introspective. Equating working class life with simplicity is deeply dodgy imo, it's the language of the rulers - and as you say, Quigley was a card-carrying member of the elite.


Once, a working-class life was an easy life; put in your 20-30 years at some job, leave your work behind when you go home, pay off your mortgage in time to retire with a pension. Now you can't trust a pension to be real or lasting unless it's a govt pension (and for how much longer that will be true, nobody knows, right?)
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