Insex Cult Leader Calls It Quits!

by **Project Willow** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:07 pm

I just thought I would post that at this time Moonshine has agreed to remove my images from the film.

by **proldic** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:16 pm

but before we spark it up, please let me try to find out what I can, it might take a day or two. Through another source who is into youth politics, I'm becoming somewhat aware of what's going on here. This whole thing has really disturbed me, and I think it leads to something very dark, something that Jeff has focused on in his posts, but it's like we're all feeling around the edges of this thing, in a dark room, not really able to make out what it is. I believe this thread represents a major piece of the puzzle. Self-victimization. Unconscious [?] perpetuation. What's the scientific term for something consuming itself? I, too, was horrified, suspicious, and angered at the producers by the presentation of the video. But apparently, the young woman 'Moonshine', is a real person. Obviously, she is deeply troubled. I don't know her full background yet, or whether she's being subconsciously manipulated by some outside forces or not, (which seems possible I know), but what I do know that she is a real 20-something new-left-counter-culture type, and known in those circles. Although it may be hard for us to understand, I think until now she may not have realized that she is [seen as] an exploitative pornographer. And a bad one, at that. See, this capitalist system eats it's young. Sure, we've known it from the past, we realize it's happening now, but somehow it's hard for us to grasp how massive the insanity is these days. So let's not knee-jerk glorify the youth as some bastion of revolutionary consciousness. In fact, I'm starting to think they may be one of the most bad-meme infected segments of our society, yeah, at this point worse than the boomers. Oh I should say, they're the fault of the boomers, really. They're your kids, and you have no idea how much the ramifications of "postmodernist" thought, of the CIA-sponsored anarchist movement, of the popular "freedom = absence-of-restraint" meme, of the "sexual revolution", etc. has effected them. In the context of the capitalist system, these effects are sure to be negative. Maybe we should say "don't trust anyone under 30". Remember when people were like, "when I was in high school there were fights, but people used their fists, or maybe brass-knuckles" then later people were like "don't fight, you'll get shot these days, there's metal detectors in the elementary school"? It's true. Things change radically for the worse the longer we dawdle. What I'm trying to say is that the rational, reasonable responses and expectations typified by this thread run smack up against a generation gap, these kids actually live like this, breathe this, they've embraced the dark side, and they think it's light, they've been taught to fetishize their suffering, pick at their scabs, and wear they're "specialness" like a boy scout badge of honor, and as you see actually end up perpetuating the very abuse they suffered, the vainglorious narcissus, capitalist culture of rehab and recovery that wallows in war stories, titillation, and shock value (sound familiar, anyone?). Not only do we have not a clue how fucked-up these kids are value-wise, sexually, without roots, without history, but they are pretty clueless about how permanently they're damaging themselves, and like all youth, it's hard to get them to se when they're being led on. They also have no concept of conventional social mores, and revel in rejecting them, yet they are genuinely shocked when they get dismissed and marginalized, a marginalization that they'd imposed on themselves quite proudly up to then. So here comes your next generation of filthy hippie communes, child neglect, "free love" sexual power-tripping, hard drugs, and of course most likely they'll end up like their predecessors, useless 50-something burnt-out "crustys", except this time they won't know a balance sheet from a triple beam, so I guess as much as it pains me to say it, in that instance, Moonshine's doing "better" than the rest of the crowd by "getting paid". What's even scarier is that as opposed to the hippies, these kids actually have a much more sophisticated half-baked warped philosophy behind them this time. And they are driven by an arrogant anarcho-DIY-self-righteousness that rejects basic human values, wisdom, honor, discipline, and good tradition. Permanently scarred, mentally marred. They don't only care about making cannon-fodder, this is a counter-revolutionary cointelpro directed at the youth. See, what this deeply traumatized, verging-on-permanently insane young women really needs is a fucking intervention!! And what makes me so fucking mad and sick to my stomach is she won't ever get it from her friends or her scene. She needs to reject the scene she's in 100%, but it's probably all she's had for years, and all she's known, and it probably "saved" her in her mind from a worse fate. Without the clean break, she's fucked. I've seen it before with these vegan-anarchist kids, they'd crawl over the bodies of their dead friends, get their dinner from dumpsters, even when they were at one point capable of working, and organizing in the workplace, justifying mind games, pedophilia-power-sex-rape, you name it. Anything but what's right. Just don't break up their consensus of shit. Truly frightening. Pray for the youth, and the poor little girls and boys being "turned out" right now. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I love to see my people living in love I hate to see them fighting and swimming in blood Nuff neglect the farming, the scorn in the mud Yet they want to be the first to reap the fruit as it buds Oh, they fill the earth with prison, church, and whore house Love the rum bar, yet they hate the pure house Dem take the microchip and override the poor out Less food, more shout and more mouth Take master spit inna dem face take back dem teet and smile Da bounce of the nile so mile and so fertile acres more than ah zillion mile People acting vile pick up cannibal style wan devour mama, papa, and child, oh Politician ah talk certain tings dem nah mention Sey ah drugs and gun people tax money spend pon Come wit plastic smile and dem wicked intention Inna ya hand, is where dem put dem evil invention Turn gun model seeking attention See it deh now ya dead and it is no redemption Parents ah wonder where to get the first cent from To bury the dirt dem not even got pension <hr></blockquote>

by **Dreams End** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:47 pm

A simple scam would not have needed to resort to this: <a href="http://www.reflectionsinthenight.com/">www.reflectionsinthenight.com/</a> Notice the name. I believe it is an alias for Moonshine.

by **GDN01** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:02 pm

I don't think this video is a scam. I agree somewhat with Proldic's assertion that there is a real difference in the sexual world of teens and early 20's today, and what it was even 10 years ago, and world's apart from 20 years ago. I do not believe this person, Moonshine, is participating in a plan to get people to buy porn and disguising it as an expose. Does she use methods I would not use? Sure. Does she use methods that might be inappropriate for this subject matter - I would say, in my opinion, yes. But I think this whole topic could have been approached with less hysteria and engaged with Moonshine to bring suggestions to her about the style and content. She has removed PW's artwork. Maybe, if she hadn't been attacked, she would have considered input and made other changes as well. There are people here, including myself, who have lived these realities, to differing degrees. Maybe we could have been a positive influence. I believe she thinks she is doing what she claims. Exposing a horrible sex industry that has wide implications on society as a whole, beyond what happens to the individuals in the porn industry. And I do think that sometimes people need to see how degrading it is. Many people have no idea this stuff is filmed and there is a market for it, or else it wouldn't be done. Who is benefitting from this type of pornography? What has happened to our society that many young women are willing to subject themselves to this type of treatment? What has happened to our sexuality that it is being marketed in this way. I found some of the remarks made in the interviews to be very enlightening. How these women who are profiled explained how their worth became tied up with just how much abuse they were willing and able to take. And I wonder how many women would enter this industry if they had someone explain this to them - their value will be based on their ability to take the most degrading and dehumanizing abuse. DE keeps bringing up the "r-rated music videos" as evidence that this is all a scam. I disagree. I have not purchased and watched the full 4 hours worth of information so I can't speak for how they are used in this project. But I will say that any discussion of how society is selling violence and sexuality - and connecting the two in the minds of young people, should include a look at the music video industry. What is shown on MTV and other video channels is filled with images of sexual degradation of women and combines it with violence. Our teens are given the message that this is sexy and glamorous and it is very damaging. The person who writes the "Reflections in the Night" blog that carries a link to the "exposee" site, in her "about" page, claims to have been born in 1941, and gives a very detailed account of her life, as well as provides pictures. I do not believe this is an alias for Moonshine. And the information that is linked to on "reflections" is very informative about RA and MC. I agree with Moonshines assertions that society is being conditioned to accept torture, degradation, and falling prey to MC. Many of the women in the film talked about how they had been willing to participate in what they thought were acceptable forms of BDSM when they began in the industry and had taken assignments that would involve this. You have to wonder why they were willing to do even this. What kind of societal conditioning has made this so commonplace and acceptable? Then, they explain that what they had been subjected to, after being taken to locations where they had no escape possible, or in a hotel room with several men when that had not been a part of the original agreement - and how they had felt trapped, needed to comply just to get out alive, how they had tried to figure out if saying "no" and resisting was only making the abuse and torture worse and so compliance might make the ordeal end more quickly. And then how having been violated in this way, the damage done to their psyche, had left them feeling this was all they were good for. The experts comments were very enlightening about the systematic methods that are used to bring this about which enables the perpertrators to hide behind the false claim of this all being "consensual". The perps know these forms of torture and abuse will create a "willing" subject. Where did these methods of torture and destroying "the core" and will of an individual originate? As Moonshine points out - these methods have been perfected in our own govt.'s MKUltra program. I'll say once again - I think an opportunity has been lost to work with Moonshine to help her rethink her approach because of the personal attacks on her and her motives. Thank you to all who participated.

by **israelirealities** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:53 pm

I agree with you. I was very confused with this entire situation, and still am. First I posted her intro letter and the link to the movie in a post in my blog (in Hebrew), and then after reading the follow up info I took out her intro, and left the link without reference as to whether its against SRA or an illustration thereof (which was OK in the larger context of my post), and then I decided, despite the criticism to translate her intro (the message she wrote in the thread) to Hebrew for the readers to judge (I am still working on it, its LONG). I don't know enough about the industry, I have lived some of the MK ultra realities, and so everything that sheds light on the "philosophy" of the perpetrators always seems important enough, better than the void. Also, in the last decade or so Israel has seen a sharp rise in S&M clubs/culture (sub culture), satanic cults, strange muders of ritual style, and the sexualization of torture in general. I think it is terrible, because we also happen to have a "real" torture industry (in the military) and this is very serious, not just teen agers playing tough. I will welcome any advice on all of this, in terms of how to present it in my blog. My post was dealing with the larger Israeli scene of perverse sex crimes and the failure of the police and the prosecution to deal with it - alluding to corruption in those places. What scared me was DE's speculation that this is intended to "blow off" people who have been programmed into killing themselves. I don't want to be the conduit for any such horrible consequences, or let it be spread via my blog.

by **professorpan** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:21 pm

Why would anyone -- in an attempt to expose something they found abhorrent -- peddle *hours* of vile video footage of what is clearly exploitative sexual abuse and manipulation? For those who haven't watched it, just the basic teaser (free) clip includes women eating feces, bound and gagged and crying, getting semen splashed on their faces by several men, choking and vomiting while fellating someone, and being beaten with a cane. And much, much more. That should be plenty to get the point across. (And the disclaimer lies, as Dream's End has clearly noted -- there's a LOT of sexual content in the free clip). For those who haven't actually navigated to the page that tries to sell the membership, this is the actual text. -- CLICK DOWNLOAD FULL VERSION NOW!!!!!! For $6.95 you get full access to our membership area and the full high quality version of XXXEXPOSE.COM THE MOVIE!!! Once logged in you will navigate through seven pages of over four and half hours of totally original footage and music video artwork [PP: except the stolen art, of course], each page featuring a different themed segment of the movie. You pass will grant you 3 days total in which you can download all seven portions: AVN Intro to Degrading Porn, Girls Gagged Until They Vomit, Confessions of a Human Tiolet [sic], R Rated Music Videos, BDSM Cult and Mind Control, a Word to the Parents, and the Extras: Strippers Stripped! -- Yeah, that's a mind control expose documentary. And I'm Alfred fucking Hitchcock. There's no need for confusion here, nor for giving the benefit of the doubt to Moonshine, whoever he/she is (maybe Adam Frauwirth, the owner of the domain, maybe not). This is a very clear marketing campaign for some of the most vile and abusive material available, designed to be inserted into the conspiracy and alternative mediasphere. It's clever, but also transparent. Don't forget that there's a wealth of mind-control porn on the web already, at sites such as this: <a href="http://www.mcstories.com/index.html">www.mcstories.com/index.html</a> I have no problem with anyone's sexual expression or fantasies, even when they're not to my tastes and even if they repel me. But trying to sneak some really extreme nastiness into people's faces under the guise of "exposure" is just repulsive.

by **Col Quisp** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:31 pm

I agree with PP. The only purpose of this stuff is to titilate, not educate, and perhaps serve as an instruction manual to would-be abusers.

by **israelirealities** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:54 pm

thanks. I think that settles it for me. Indeed i didn't watch it or even the preview and what you are saying satisfies me that this is something I will not consider "activist-expose work" but perhaps illustration of perverse porn or the results of a larger mental confusion (this is also important to shoe ,but its entirely a different treatment of the subject). I am still confused about the origins of such person/work, but I suppose it goes with the territory. The issue is very murky, as you have now the work of De Sade translated to Hebrew as fine arts, within the post modern resurrection of this kind of literature, as well. It is very "hip" amongst the intellectual elites now, and so this is very fine line here. Also, some of the serious work/journalism in Italy, these days, is financed by porn as some sort of "statement", but also because of financial realities. For instance, one of the most "radical left wing enlightened" websites, had porn mingled in, and recently they split the website into "serious stuff" and "porn website" (for the money). It so happened theythink that independent media cannot survive except this way. A sad point, but perhaps true as well. What is more of a "prostitution" these days ? going along with the tycoons OR doing some not so horrible porn to finance a very good, critical political website... It also reminds me of a semi celeb journalist here, in Israel, who wrote a book about how her father abused her sexually and she had a trial with him etc. At the same time, and as part of her recovery (she said) she started a TV show on erotics/sex crap (nothing hard, but very cheap). So, the lord's ways are mysterious and so is the recovery of abused ladies. One cannot be too cautious but neither too judgemental/self righteous. Having said that, I will leave this movie/letter out of my stuff and wait...

by **glubglubglub** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:03 pm

I suspect the professor is 100% correct; to play devil's advocate for a moment, however, if you were recently escaped from a bsdm-cum-porno cult, it's not out of the question that porn -- or really, the porn industry and its business strategies -- would be all that you knew. Either way I think the correct approach is criticism and explanations for why this approach is complete crap, but just wanted to point out that some recent escapee might not know anything different. No need to rehash with me the evidence and stuff earlier in the thread b/c I've read it and am in agreement with the consensus.

by **hmm** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:23 pm

I feel there is some jumping to conclusions. This is a difficult subject. Not everyone who has dismissed moonshine and the video seems to understand. I am uncomfortable with how this threads feels. can you comment?

by **professorpan** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:04 pm

Okay, I'm willing to consider that Moonshine is a messed up individual, albeit one with pure intentions. I don't think that's very likely, but I wouldn't say it was impossible. Let's leave him or her or them out of it. I think we can all agree that the content of the site is exploitative, insincere, misleading, and not conducive to an "exposé." Take Moonshine at his/her/its word if you want. Consider that Moonshine is misguided. But I feel there's a pretty good case against the site, the video footage, and the marketing.

by **Project Willow** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:17 pm

I'll add a few things to clear up some issues and reiterate what I know about the situation. I heard about the owner of the reflections web site at the same time Moonshine got in contact with me. For some reason, I believed they were the same person, but it looks like that was a memory problem on my part. My apologies for misleading you there DE. I know that Moonshine is a real woman, she met with and interviewed someone I know. I know that mc survivors who are still being controlled as adults have been sold into the bdsm community for sexual slavery. I know the technology has crossed the border into portions of that community and I suspect it happened because of overlap between cult populations and bdsm. When clients use mc subjects however, they cannot leave any marks, (marks would leave evidence.) That limits how these slaves can be used. So the thesis makes complete sense that hardened practitioners would want to create their own slaves. I'll also say again, I don't think this is a problem of intention, it's about the method. It may sound strange to the uninitiated, but the images like the robot are "tells" for me, even more important in some ways than the purely graphic scenes. There is much more going on here than what's being sold. I understand the anger in response to the site, because exposure to it could absolutely cause serious trouble for a survivor. However, I haven't seen any reason to hold Moonshine accountable for an agenda other than the one she's stated. I see this as another external erruption of what has been going on underground for a very long time. Survivors of mind control and torture are bound to evidence their histories in all manner of confusing and strange activity. If these things have been going on for three generations now, there will be reflections of it in all areas of culture. I've seen hints of this stuff in so much artwork, I've stopped keeping track of it. It's been beneficial to read the different responses to the material and the thread, and I appreciate the support on the image issue.

by **jenz** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:12 am

at the beginning of the time I started learning about ra et al, I read a remark made by an American law enforcement officer, that no-one sells pornography in (name of city) other than through the mafia, or they end up with their head in a trunk. so, not having looked at the video material, but basing my thoughts on what has been written here about it, how is what is fundamentally pornagraphic material being peddled from a site where the marketer can be easily identified, if it is not, in fact arranged via organised crime? and isn't it about time we had some clear thinking about what is appropriate in human relations and what isn't, and what we want our children to be able to see? too many people liking to put a foot on the slippery slope. there is both a micro and macro agenda in politics of control.

by **hmm** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:24 am

i have been wanting to say something, knew i couldnt phrase it correctly, and i hope it carries more weight coming from you thankyou

by **robertdreed** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:17 pm

I don't know what's up with you indicting an entire subculture as if this conduct were typical of it: So here comes your next generation of filthy hippie communes, child neglect, "free love" sexual power-tripping, hard drugs, and of course most likely they'll end up like their predecessors, useless 50-something burnt-out "crustys", except this time they won't know a balance sheet from a triple beam, so I guess as much as it pains me to say it, in that instance, Moonshine's doing "better" than the rest of the crowd by "getting paid". You sound as ignorant and self-righteous as the Christian Dominionists and the most hidebound of the cultural right wing- with the exception that you're aren't inclined to hold the perpetrators hustling the DVD responsible for their conduct. You grant them Victimhood as though they were typical products of "Capitalism." That's what stands in for "Satan" with you. And, presumably, the makers of XXXpose are typical examples of The Youth that have been "possessed" by the demon Capitalism, which led them to make that DVD and promote it like advertising spam on non-adult websites, with inadequate and arguably fraudulent advance notice of the content. For what it's worth, that isn't the story that Moonshine gives as her personal narrative. I didn't read any mention of her personal upbringing. Even if she's the offspring of the radical fringe hippie subculture that you conjure as her upbringing, I don't find anything typical about her story. You're simply dealing in canards, not too different than George Sensenbrenner. Moonshine speaks of being involved with youthful Left politics before getting into the BDSM scene, in fact- but I don't view her as a typical result of dabbling in Left politics. Although plainly it didn't immunize her from what followed as a result of her personal explorations. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 10/19/05 7:20 pm

Insex Cult Leader Calls It Quits!

Update

Now, I love a good bonfire as much as anyone

Re: Now, I love a good bonfire as much as anyone

I will continue to say

Re: I will continue to say

Just a couple quick questions

Re: Just a couple quick questions

Re: Just a couple quick questions

my only contribution to this sordid affair, I hope

Re: Update - can you comment on benefit of doubt?

Benefit of the doubt

Re: Benefit of the doubt

marketing

Re: Benefit of the doubt, thankyou willow

proldic..

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