Coming Soon - War with Iran?

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Re: Coming Soon - War with Iran?

Postby Hammer of Los » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:58 pm

...

Meanwhile, British Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg said on February 2 that he was worried that the US and Israel would “take matters into their own hands and launch a military strike against Iran.”

He added that Britain had been attempting to demonstrate that “there are very tough things we can do which are not military steps in order to place pressure on Iran.”


God Bless Nick Clegg!

I knew there was a reason I voted for him.

It looks like that prayer I said to invoke the conscience of the good men of Albion worked.

Perhaps the spirits that attend me did their bit, too.



:lovehearts: :angelwings: :lovehearts:

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Re: Coming Soon - War with Iran?

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:56 am

See No Evil: A Strange Absolution of Obama’s Warmongering
Written by Chris Floyd
Friday, 03 February 2012 00:55

It's hard to say which is more disturbing in Patrick Cockburn's recent analysis of America’s warmongering toward Iran: his portrait of wily Jews manipulating and "bamboozling" the American power elite into acting against their own interests and good intentions; or the 'Amos and Andy' echoes in the image of a Negro President too dumb to know he's being played by wicked Hebrews. In any case, it is an astounding -- and dismaying -- performance from a writer who has long been one of the very best in delineating the operations of empire in the Middle East.

As so often happens, Arthur Silber has already been on the case. In his latest post, Silber notes that most of Cockburn's analysis is right on target. Cockburn writes that the methods being used "by the US, Israel and West European leaders" to whip up war fever against Iran are "deeply dishonest," and "similar to the drumbeat of propaganda and disinformation about Iraq's non-existent weapons of mass destruction." Cockburn also says that sanctions, such as the ones recently imposed by the European Union on Iranian oil sales, "are likely to intensify the crisis, impoverish ordinary Iranians and psychologically prepare the ground for war because of the demonization of Iran." All of this is demonstrably and undeniably true. But then he goes on. Silber sets the scene (and adds the emphases):

But note what else Cockburn says, which is most definitely not similar to anything I've written. Writing about U.S. neoconservatives, the Likud Party and the Israel lobby in Washington, Cockburn states:
These are very much the same people who targeted Iraq in the 1990s. They have been able to force the White House to adopt their program and it is now, in turn, being implemented by a European Union that naively sees sanctions as an alternative to military conflict. ….

It is this latter policy [of toppling the Iranian government] that has triumphed. Israel, its congressional allies and the neoconservatives have successfully bamboozled the Obama administration into a set of policies that make sense only if the aim is overthrow of the regime in Tehran….

It is difficult not to admire the skill with which Netanyahu has maneuvered the White House and European leaders into the very confrontation with Iran they wanted to avoid.


Let me see if I understand this correctly. Obama was strapped down, blindfolded, deprived of all food and water for weeks on end, and tortured in numerous ways. Perhaps Netanyahu screamed at him nonstop for 10 or 12 days. (It would unquestionably work on me.) And then, on top of that, Obama was tricked. Tricked!!! How unbelievably dastardly.

Thus was Obama -- who happens to be the goddamned President of the United States, who happens to be the goddamned Commander-in-Chief of all the U.S. military forces -- "forced," "bamboozled" and "maneuvered" into taking actions he doesn't begin to understand and doesn't actually intend.

Silber goes on to lay out the overwhelming evidence, from Obama's own statements and actions, disproving Cockburn's ludicrous contention -- evidence which, as Silber says, "supports only one conclusion: what Obama is doing comports fully and precisely with what he himself believes."

Exactly. Unlike Cockburn -- and the innumerable progressive apologists for Obama -- I have the fullest respect for the president's intellect and his powers of perception. I think it is deeply insulting to him to say that he is not aware of the true impact of his policies, both in foreign and domestic affairs. As Cockburn himself states, Obama is pursuing "a set of policies that make sense only if the aim is overthrow of the regime in Tehran." Yes. That is indeed the case. The glaringly obvious aim of American policy toward Iran is regime change. But Cockburn is asserting that Barack Obama literally has no sense. He is too stupid to see what Cockburn plainly (and rightly) sees.

Again, what's being said here? That Jews have some kind of occult power to control the minds of America's power elite and force them to act against their will? One really can't credit a writer like Cockburn with such a crude conception -- but something very like it is implicit in his wording. And of course, this idea is prevalent in many circles, on both the right and the left, who continually posit "wag the dog" scenarios about decent Americans being led astray by mesmerizing Israeli leaders and Homeland neo-cons. As I wrote a few years ago, when the Iraq War was plunging deeper and deeper into horror:

To think that all of this has happened because a small band of extremist ideologues – the neocons – somehow "hijacked" U.S. foreign policy to push their radical dreams of "liberating" the Middle East by force and destroying Israel’s enemies is absurd. The Bushist power factions were already determined on an aggressive foreign policy; they used the neocons and their bag of tricks – their inflated rhetoric, their conspiratorial zeal, their murky Middle East contacts, their ideology of brute force in the name of "higher" causes – as tools (and PR cover) to help bring about a long-planned war that had nothing to do with democracy or security or any coherent ideology whatsoever beyond the remorseless pursuit of wealth and power, the blind urge to be top dog.

The neocons were happy to be used, of course … [but] Shakespeare anticipated this tawdry crew long ago, in Hamlet: "Such officers do the king best service in the end: he keeps them, like an ape, in the corner of his jaw, first mouthed, to be last swallowed. When he needs what you have gleaned, it is but squeezing you, and sponge, you shall be dry again." Whatever their baleful influence, these servile ministers were not the drivers of Bush’s war chariot to Babylon. The reins – and the whip – have always been in the hands of the blood-and-iron factions and their feckless front man, the Commander-in-Chief.

And again a bit later on the same theme:

For what's the underlying implication of the "neo-cons über alles" meme? … It's that no U.S. administration would ever undertake the kind of rapacious policies we've seen in the last five years – unless they'd been tricked into it by wily Zionists and their ideological outriders. It is, in short, our old friend "American exceptionalism," decked out in dissident drag. ….

It is the American elite – pursuing, as always, the enhancement of its own power and privilege, heedless of the consent of the governed or the genuine interests of the American people (or the Palestinian people or the Israeli people or the Lebanese people or the Iraqi people) – that bedevils us. The emergence of the cretinous neo-conservative cult is just a symptom of a deeper moral corruption coursing through the dominant institutions and structures of American society. The body politic is rotting from the head.


II.
But there's something else going on here, and Silber, as usual, goes deeper to get at it:

What interests me about this kind of mental contortion -- and where I think its significance lies -- is what it achieves, and what unspoken premises it reveals. Among other things, it accomplishes a distancing from evil. If we acknowledge that Obama knows exactly what he's doing and that he intends the likely outcome of the events he sets in motion, we are compelled to conclude that he is engaged in a plan which can only be described as deeply, unforgivably evil. The effects of regime change, most likely accompanied by air strikes or military action(s) of some other kind, will include the widespread deaths of innocent human beings and vast destruction."


Again, you cannot pretend that the American elite do not know this. They know it very well. They are discussing it openly every day. As Jim Lobe tells us, yet another bipartisan gaggle of the great and good has just released yet another report stoking war fever against Iran.

The "Bipartisan Policy Center" is chaired by former Democratic Senator Chuck Robb and ex-Air Force general Charles Wald and included "retired flag officers, several former congressmen from both parties" and other wise elders plugged into the power grid. Lobe also notes that group's "staff director was Michael Makovsky, who worked as a consultant to the controversial Pentagon office set up in 2002 to find evidence of operational ties between al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein as a justification for the invasion the following year."


Lobe lays out what these heavyweights are calling for. In the inevitable event that sanctions fail to force Iran to give up its entirely legal nuclear energy program (which is policed by the most intensive international inspection regimen in history):

Washington should launch an “effective surgical strike against Iran’s nuclear program” involving aerial attacks and the deployment of U.S. Special Forces units over a period of weeks, according to the task force. …

In addition to hitting suspected nuclear sites, according to the report, an initial U.S. military attack should target Iranian communications systems and air-defense and missile sites, facilities of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), the Iranian and IRGC navies, sites related to Iran’s missile and biological or chemical weapons programs, munitions storage facilities, and airfields, aircraft, and helicopters on the ground or in the air.

If, as a result of retaliation by Tehran or its allies in the region, it was deemed necessary to escalate the conflict, Washington should expand its target list to include Iranian tanks and artillery units, power-generation plants and electrical grids, transportation infrastructure, and manufacturing plants and refineries.

While “U.S. plans would not include targeting of civilians,” according to the task force, Washington should also prepare to provide humanitarian relief in Iran “to counter any crisis that could result from kinetic action.”


No, they are not "targeting civilians" -- just power plant and electric company employees, bus drivers, train drivers, factory workers, highway crews, oil riggers, people who work for mobile phone companies, television and radio stations and all other media which might be used by the regime for "communications." And all the civilians working in government offices and military facilities, and all the civilians who might live near factories, train stations, power plants, oil fields, government offices, military facilities, and all the civilians who ride trains, buses, drive on the roads and highways and otherwise avail themselves of "transportation infrastructure."

Despite their tender forbearance in declining to target civilians (except for the millions of innocent civilians described above), even our bipartisan poobahs recognize that "kinetic action" will induce a need for "humanitarian relief." However, lest anyone think our poobahs are going soft, they make clear that this "relief" is intended solely for PR purposes:

“The United States would lose international support for military action against Iran — or for future action against other states — if it neglected to address the humanitarian consequences of a military strike,” according to the report.


To repeat: this kind of talk is going on across the networks of power in Washington, on every level: formal, informal, official, semi-official, openly and secretly. Indeed, as Lobe notes, this week the Obama administration has been racketing up the warmongering to new heights:
On Sunday, for example, Pentagon chief Leon Panetta vowed to take “whatever steps are necessary” to prevent Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon, while on Tuesday, the director of national intelligence, Gen. James Clapper, testified that Tehran may be preparing to conduct terrorist attacks in the U.S. in the event of a war.


The impetus behind these efforts is the same: to force regime change in Iran, either by collapsing the regime now in place or else breaking it into complete acquiescence with the armed domination of world affairs that is Washington's openly stated agenda. As Defense Secretary Leon Panetta put it, in introducing Obama's "Defense Strategic Review" last month: "We must maintain the world's finest military, one that supports and sustains the unique global leadership role of the United States in today's world."

This includes maintaining the American military's "ability to project power in areas in which our access and freedom to operate are challenged," the Obama review says. In other words, no one, anywhere, has any right to deny the American war machine from doing whatever it wants in their territory. Any "potential adversary," as the Review puts it, must be deterred by the "power projection” of America’s overwhelming military might.

Obama himself presented this reaffirmation of the doctrine of armed domination in a special appearance at the Pentagon. And as Silber points out (and carefully documents), Obama's open and enthusiastic embrace of this doctrine goes back many years. It is myopic -- to a mind-boggling degree -- to assert that he is being "bamboozled" into carrying out his own clearly stated strategy: “projecting power” against a "potential adversary" in a region that is crucial for "sustaining America’s unique global leadership role" in today's oil-driven world.

This is precisely what he came to power to do. It is precisely what he said he intended to do. It is precisely what he has been doing for years, all over the world. He is serving the interests, promoting the agenda and embodying the values of the American elite, whose lust for empire long pre-dates the founding of the state of Israel. He knows what he is doing; the militarist courtiers in Washington know it; the Israelis know it; and so do the Iranians.

The only people being “bamboozled” about the direction and intentions of American policy toward Iran are the “mental contortionists” who, for whatever reasons, are trying desperately not to see the stark reality in front of their eyes.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Coming Soon - War with Iran?

Postby AlicetheKurious » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:15 pm

But Iran has no nuclear weapons program. Furthermore, Iran is not an enemy of the United States, indeed it has a long record of trying to initiate dialogue and come to a mutually acceptable arrangement with the US government that would safeguard both countries' interests. Forget the "crazy mullahs" caricature; you'd be hard pressed to find a more deeply pragmatic and reality-based bunch than those who run the current Iranian government.

On the other hand, and for the same reason, Iran is indeed an implacable enemy of Israel, one that moreover, understands Israel's true agenda in the region and is taking concrete and so far very effective actions to thwart it. It is Israel, not the US, that desperately NEEDS to neutralize Iran, just as permanently and absolutely as Iraq has been neutralized.

No, Obama is not stupid, nor is he blind. But unlike Chris Floyd, he doesn't indulge in fantasies about how public officials get elected in the United States, nor in fairy tales about how much real power "the goddamned President of the United States, who happens to be the goddamned Commander-in-Chief of all the U.S. military forces" actually has. He knows what it costs in the current system to reach that position, what it costs to keep it, and what can happen to those who deny the zionists anything, anything at all, that they want.

There's nothing "occult" about it: it's the way the system works. It's a system designed to filter out those who refuse to be servile to Israel before they can even begin to have a chance to run for office. There's only one, "bi-partisan", issue, on which there can only be absolute, total unanimity with no dissent allowed; only one issue that can reduce grown men and women to groveling and gushing incoherently about their love and their deep, undying passion as they struggle to prove who can demonstrate the most abject, humiliating obedience to a foreign state, who can win the coveted blessing of a foreign government, exactly as though it were a precondition to being allowed to run America on its behalf.

It's hard to say which is more disturbing in Patrick Cockburn's recent analysis of America’s warmongering toward Iran: his portrait of wily Jews manipulating and "bamboozling" the American power elite into acting against their own interests and good intentions; or the 'Amos and Andy' echoes in the image of a Negro President too dumb to know he's being played by wicked Hebrews.

Again, what's being said here? That Jews have some kind of occult power to control the minds of America's power elite and force them to act against their will? One really can't credit a writer like Cockburn with such a crude conception -- but something very like it is implicit in his wording. And of course, this idea is prevalent in many circles, on both the right and the left, who continually posit "wag the dog" scenarios about decent Americans being led astray by mesmerizing Israeli leaders and Homeland neo-cons. As I wrote a few years ago, when the Iraq War was plunging deeper and deeper into horror:

To think that all of this has happened because a small band of extremist ideologues – the neocons – somehow "hijacked" U.S. foreign policy to push their radical dreams of "liberating" the Middle East by force and destroying Israel’s enemies is absurd. The Bushist power factions were already determined on an aggressive foreign policy; they used the neocons and their bag of tricks – their inflated rhetoric, their conspiratorial zeal, their murky Middle East contacts, their ideology of brute force in the name of "higher" causes – as tools (and PR cover) to help bring about a long-planned war that had nothing to do with democracy or security or any coherent ideology whatsoever beyond the remorseless pursuit of wealth and power, the blind urge to be top dog.

The neocons were happy to be used, of course … The reins – and the whip – have always been in the hands of the blood-and-iron factions and their feckless front man, the Commander-in-Chief.


Here's the "implicit" message in this silly screed, which is nothing but a cover story designed to explain evidence that has become too obvious for anybody to simply ignore: Cockburn is an anti-semite and an anti-Black racist, as is anybody else who acknowledges the increasingly hysterical, rabid and desperate warmongering from Israel and its agents to push the US to attack Iran for no rational motive related to any American interests whatsoever. According to Floyd, the real perpetrators here are Nazis (the "blood-and-iron factions") and they are "using" Israel and its agents as tools for their own crazy purpose. (Since they don't exist, they can be as crazy as Floyd wants them to be).

In other words, while the author claims that it's "absurd" to point out the obvious, which is that Israel really, really wants the US to bomb Iran to eliminate the single most formidable obstacle to its known, concrete objectives (control over the vast gas reserves along the Mediterranean coast, the annexation of Lebanese territory south of the Litani River, the total elimination of Hamas and any other popular resistance movement, access to Iraqi oil and water resources, among others), his own, not-so-implicit narrative about American Nazis "using" Israel's agents to push for a suicidal war that will likely finish off the United States economically and otherwise is not.

Fail.
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Re: Coming Soon - War with Iran?

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:24 pm

Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Coming Soon - War with Iran?

Postby AlicetheKurious » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:01 am

Oh, for pete's sake:

Saturday February 4: Day of Mass Action to Stop a U.S. War on Iran

Visible street protests and other events and outreach will happen in many places, including around the world: in Ireland at Shannon Air Base (forward base for NATO); in London; in Dacca, Bangaldesh; in Calcutta and other cities in India. Search this page for several actions in Canada as well.


Will it be as big as the global protests to stop the war on Iraq 9 years ago? Because those were enormous...

Haven't we learned yet that demonstrations alone accomplish very little in concrete terms? Experience should have taught us by now that only labor strikes, mass boycotts and other economic collective actions have a chance of building up the kind of real pressure that forces politicians to obey the public will.

(And before anybody mentions the Egyptian case, may I remind everyone that in fact Mubarak remained firmly in place despite the millions in the streets until the public sector workers went on strike, literally paralysing the economy during the last three days before he was forced out.)
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Re: Coming Soon - War with Iran?

Postby Sounder » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:20 am

Yes but surely the public sector workers were encouraged by the millions in the street.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Coming Soon - War with Iran?

Postby Searcher08 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:29 am

This situation is very different this time - I think the chances of millions in the street in the West are near zero - with Iraq there was a drumbeat, a buildup over an extended period of time - this is not the same situation.

There is probably going to be nothing but the same-old same-old propaganda exchanges between the West and Iran, followed by a non-telegraphed Israeli attack.
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Re: Coming Soon - War with Iran?

Postby ninakat » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:55 pm

Runaway Train: Stop the War Against Iran -- Now
Written by Chris Floyd
Monday, 06 February 2012

Almost every day brings some new barrage of fear-mongering lies and vaporous accusations from leading members of the Obama Administration and other nabobs at the top of the political-media elite, all of them aimed relentlessly at one goal: justifying military action against Iran.

It is an almost exact replay of what we saw in 2002-2003 during the build-up to the war of aggression against Iraq – with one significant exception. The "progressive" opposition to the baseless warmongering is virtually non-existent this time around – because the warmonger-in-chief is their own champion, their partisan standard-bearer. Many voices that hurled thunderous denunciations at the Bush Regime for its brazen manipulations toward a baseless and unjustified war are now silent – that is, if they are not actively supporting the increasingly rabid saber-rattling by the Peace Laureate. To them, Obama's re-election is more important than anything on earth: certainly more important than the thousands (or tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands) of innocent people who will die in the long-running, far-reverberating hellstorm that an attack on Iran will create.

So now there is even less resistance to the fever-stoking against Iran. Yet what is playing out before our eyes is even more brazen than the build-up to the war crime against Iraq. Right now, in real time, in real life, the Obama administration and its allies in warmongering are telling the American people, over and over, that Iran is preparing terrorist strikes in the United States, that Iran is joining hands with Al Qaeda, that Iran is killing American soldiers in Afghanistan (just as they did in Iraq), that Iran is building long-range missiles that launch their nearly-completed nuclear weapons straight into the Heartland. The Obama administration is carefully – and deliberately and knowingly – building up the Iranian "threat" to such monstrous heights that it will be impossible to back down: Tehran terrorists striking in the Homeland with Al Qaeda while they ready their nukes to destroy America – we're supposed to negotiate with such monsters? There is only one way to save our sweet little children from nuclear obliteration – strike the Persian aggressors before they kill us! It's a plain case of self-defense.

There is of course absolutely no substance to any of this. There is no substance to the claim that Iran is building a nuclear weapon. And there would be no "threat" to the United States if they did build one. (And no threat to Israel either, which is sitting there with its vast nuclear arsenal, fully able – right now, in real time, in real life – to "wipe Iran from the map" at the push of a button.) The only "threat" Iran poses – with or without nuclear weapons – is to the domination of the Middle East and its oil wealth by the American elite and its international partners.

Yet here we are, genuinely on the brink of another war – a war which will make the mass-murdering, $3 trillion FUBAR in Iraq and Afghanistan look like the Summer of Love. Yet the "professional Left" is bending all its might to re-elect the perpetrator behind this Bush-like push for aggressive war. (And of course the professional Right is fully on board.) Can anything stop this runaway train?

In his latest post, Arthur Silber lays out a number of practical, effective steps that can be taken today to bring the danger of this lunatic course to public consciousness. They are there if anyone wants to take them up – especially those in the "dissident" world who already have a broad media platform, and could leverage that position to force this issue to the forefront.

Will anyone do it? Like Silber, I have my doubts. But the alternative is a numb acquiescence to an enormous evil being prepared right in front of us. If it happens, no one can say that they didn't see it coming. When the thousands lie dying and the world grows darker, the only question will be this: Did you try to stop it, or not?
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Re: Coming Soon - War with Iran?

Postby Simulist » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:27 pm

Searcher08 wrote:This situation is very different this time - I think the chances of millions in the street in the West are near zero - with Iraq there was a drumbeat, a buildup over an extended period of time - this is not the same situation.

There is probably going to be nothing but the same-old same-old propaganda exchanges between the West and Iran, followed by a non-telegraphed Israeli attack.

Plus, the start of the Iraq War had a Republican as the figurehead; Democrats didn't mind protesting that. But with a Democrat in office now, mainstream Democratic outrage will likely be muted, especially in an "election" year. ("Team spirit," and "getting with the program," you know.)
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Re: Coming Soon - War with Iran?

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:57 am

Look, it's easy to get sucked into the whirlwind of hysteria emanating from Washington and Tel Aviv, but let's step out of it for a second and consider the reality: If the US did militarily attack Iran, it would be incredibly out of character, not to mention insane, self-destructive and pointless.

Cut through all the bullshit and it will become evident that, at least since WWII, the US has only attacked very weak states, whose military capacities are either non-existent or have been badly downgraded. This is definitely not the case here. Iran has had at least a decade to prepare itself for this war, and it has not wasted one minute of that time. Having endured several years of arms embargo, post-revolutionary Iran learned early on the importance of self-sufficiency in arms production and development, and has built up a formidable military-industrial complex of its own, as well as one of the most highly developed intelligence capabilities in the region. Its strategists have demonstrated a very high degree of competence (far higher than their American counterparts), which has allowed them repeatedly to outwit the latter so that it is Iran that has emerged, over and over, as a major beneficiary from the US' costly and disastrous invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, just as America's incompetence pushed both Lebanon and Syria away from the US orbit and into Iran's.

In any attack against Iran, the US would have no legal cover and very few allies. The Europeans would lose a crucial source of fuel at a time when they simply can't afford to. The US' "friends" India and Pakistan have already indicated that they oppose such a war. Even Iraq has clearly registered its opposition to any US attack against Iran. This would be no "coalition of the willing", but a headlong rush into disaster for which the US would bear the stupendous cost all by itself.

Finally, in case it is attacked by the US, Iran has also explicitly threatened, not only to retaliate against American targets, but to devastate the Gulf monarchies which form the main pillar of US hegemony in the region, already prompting them to hastily issue statements that they will not support nor provide logistics for any American attack on Iran. They know, if the US does not, how fragile is their hold on power.

That map you posted, slad, of the US military bases in the so-called "Greater Middle East", illustrates everything that the US has to lose. Each military base reflects a state in which the US maintains a puppet regime. The US' military, economic and political hegemony in the region depends absolutely on its ability to prop up precarious dictatorships that are becoming more precarious every day. A war against Iran would be the equivalent of throwing a firecracker at a house of cards, with consequences that would be impossible to contain, but which would necessarily entail huge, possibly fatal, strategic losses for the US.

The exact opposite is true with regard to Israel: Israel, unlike the US, is not a viable state. The collapse of the Mubarak regime has already cost it a crucial source of gas imports, resulting in near-panic as the Israeli government struggles to locate an alternative source, since gas is used to generate 36% of its electricity needs. This is expected to rise to 70% by 2020. Israel is a settler state that maintains a First World level of consumption in a land that simply cannot sustain it. Literally in order to survive, it needs to continuously conquer new sources of water, arable farmland, fuel and other raw materials, yet cannot afford to pay for them. In this endeavor, Iran represents a major obstacle, because it actively supports the indigenous resistance movements that prevent Israel from expanding beyond the borders it conquered in 1967, despite more than 4 decades of strenuous efforts to do so.

The only one who has everything to gain and nothing to lose, especially if the US attacks Iran alone, is Israel. Except, of course, for the US politicians who hope to attain or keep their decision-making positions on the Titanic by promising their Israeli patrons that they will steer the ship directly into the path of the iceberg.
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Re: Coming Soon - War with Iran?

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:24 am

Exclusive: India delegation to go to Iran to boost oil exports
Reuters February 2, 2012, 8:36 pm
1 Comment

NEW DELHI (Reuters) -
India will send a business delegation to Iran at the end of February to explore how it can increase exports in order to meet payments for Iranian oil hit by international sanctions, a senior government official said on Thursday.

India, Iran's second-biggest oil client after China, buys 12 percent of its oil needs from the Islamic nation, worth about $12 billion annually.

Last month, Reuters reported that India would pay for some of its oil imports in rupees via an Indian bank, resorting to the partially convertible currency after more than a year of payment problems in the face of fresh, tougher U.S. sanctions.

To meet its oil demand, India could step up exports including in farm products such as wheat, industrial goods and gems and jewelry, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivities of the subject.

"You have to devise a mechanism with which you can pay for the import of oil and avoid attracting sanctions," the official said. "We will need to lead a business delegation there, taking potential exporters across a range of sectors, and go out there and talk to their counterparts."

"It's for individual traders to strike deals with each other," the official said.

(Reporting by Matthias Williams; editing by Krittivas Mukherjee) Link
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Re: Coming Soon - War with Iran?

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:32 am

I just came across this, on Ynet, of all places (!!!):

    'Israeli attack will prompt Pakistani response'

    European diplomat based in Islamabad says Israeli strike would force Pakistan to support Iranian retaliation, while EU official says 'political and economic consequences of attack would be catastrophic for Europe'

    Dudi Cohen and AP
    Published: 02.05.12, 23:26 / Israel News



    Is the world counting down to "D-Day"? After US Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta estimated that Israel would attack Iran by June, and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warned government officials against "Iran chatter," A European diplomat based in Pakistan said that if Israel attacks, Islamabad will have no choice but to support any Iranian retaliation.

    The diplomat's statement raised the specter of putting a nuclear-armed Pakistan at odds with Israel, which is widely believed to have its own significant nuclear arsenal.

    To some, the greatest risk of an attack was to the moribund world economy. Nick Witney, former head of the EU's European Defense Agency, said "the political and economic consequences of an Israeli attack would be catastrophic for Europe" since the likely spike in the price of oil alone "could push the entire EU, including Germany, into recession."

    He said this could lead to "messy defaults" by countries like Greece and Italy, and possibly cause a collapse of the already-wobbly euro.

    Witney, a senior fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations, added that "the Iranians would probably retaliate against European interests in the region, and conceivably more directly with terrorism aimed at Western countries and societies."

    Meanwhile, Iran continued to raise the bar, a senior Revolutionary Guard commander on Sunday warned that the Islamic Republic will target any country where an attack against it is staged.

    Gen. Hossein Salami, deputy commander of the elite Revolutionary Guard, Iran's most powerful military force, did not elaborate. His comments appeared to be a warning to Iran's neighbors not to let their territory or airspace be used as a base for an attack.

    On Friday, Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, called Israel a "cancerous tumor that should be cut and will be cut," and boasted of supporting any group that will challenge the Jewish state. Link

Ok, I'll stop now.
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Re: Coming Soon - War with Iran?

Postby Spiro C. Thiery » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:31 am

AlicetheKurious wrote:Look, it's easy to get sucked into the whirlwind of hysteria emanating from Washington and Tel Aviv, but let's step out of it for a second and consider the reality: If the US did militarily attack Iran, it would be incredibly out of character, not to mention insane, self-destructive and pointless.

Cut through all the bullshit and it will become evident that, at least since WWII, the US has only attacked very weak states, whose military capacities are either non-existent or have been badly downgraded.

I tend to agree. There's a whirlwind of hysteria for a reason, though, and this seems to me to be less drumming up a case for war or the like, and more a diversion of some kind. Still, I don't think anyone can predict what the US will or won't do here and I don't necessarily believe that any option is off the table. The only thing I am sure of is that whatever happens, someone will profit from it, regardless of how detrimental it is for however many others.

Lest anyone think, however, that they are not at war already (most likely because if doesn't fit our apocalyptically-fetished vision of what that means), the empire has long since declared war on human existence, that is, the empire is at war, it started long ago...

It's just that many are dreading - in a twisted and titillating fashion - some final outcome, which may never arrive, or certainly won't be recognized as such.

A friend coined the following a year or two ago, which I think adequately summarizes what I am trying to say here:
Eschatological paranoia is fueled by an awareness that others are enduring a personal apocalypse now, and that none familiar with its cause should remain immune to its effects.
Seeing the world through rose-colored latex.
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Re: Coming Soon - War with Iran?

Postby Spiro C. Thiery » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:18 am

The sanctions need to be stopped, but how?
Protesters speak out against US policies toward Iran
RALEIGH (WTVD) -- Rising tensions with Iran spawned anti-war protests in the Triangle. About two dozen protesters gathered outside the federal courthouse in downtown Raleigh Friday.

The protesters in Raleigh joined people in at least four dozen other cities protesting American involvement in pressuring Iran to end its nuclear program.

"I feel that our nation is way too aggressive," said protester Stormie Kirk. "I don't feel like we have any right to be involved in what's going on in Iran."

Demonstrators said new economic sanctions against the Islamic-fundamentalist country are too severe.

"The sanctions that are being imposed right now are really an act of war against the Iranian people," said protester Andy Koch. "They are going to cause hardship, suffering, starvation, and lack of medical supplies, right now today."

However, some experts said stopping the sanctions would not be a good idea.

Duke University Professor Dr. Bruce Jentleson said the sanctions serve a different purpose, while also hoping meaningful diplomacy follows.

"There's a certain point at which you bring them to the table to negotiate," said Jentleson. "But, there's never been a case in history where a country has said uncle because of them."

Jentleson said the threat of Iran developing nuclear weapons remains a very real concern but political rhetoric has caused scaremongering.

"Most estimates I've seen is that there is time," said Jentleson. "Iran is not on the brink. They are trying to do it. But they are not on the brink. But we really need to make smart decisions and not get caught in any sort of rush to judgment."

Regardless, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta says Israel could strike Iran in April, as the Persian nation refuses to back down.

Demonstrators say protests against military and economic action against Iran will continue across the United States Saturday.
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Re: Coming Soon - War with Iran?

Postby StarmanSkye » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:04 am

"There's a certain point at which you bring them to the table to negotiate," said Jentleson.

Boy, that's a damn hard act to follow.

I wonder if Jentleson would be amazed & astounded to learn just how many times and ways Iranian spokespersons have earnestly TRIED to open negotiations with US officials? Its outrageous beyond words that the corporate media is uncritically cheerleading yet another unjustified, immoral and illegal war of aggression based entirely on hysterical assumptions and alarmist exaggerations, but their silence verges on criminal re: the calculated hypocrisy and scheming duplicity of US officials who pretend for public consumption to want Iran to make concessions yet repulsing every compromise or overture made, even those made thru a 3rd party the US has friendly relations with -- going so far to sabotage talks as by closing diplomatic relations and refusing to even schedule meetings.

This is the same kind of haughty posturing and brusque isolationism the US treated Iraq to in the runup to THAT particular episode of egregious warcrimes.

BTW Spiro C. Thiery: GREAT quote by your friend, that's a superlative effort at distilling the core essence of the ackward feeling after moments, days, weeks and months of anticipating the impending catastrophe of the dropping of That Shoe to fall which, when it finally happens, ends up having had a far greater portent than the eventual personal impact which one always thinks ought to have been more -- or something like that.

--quote--
Eschatological paranoia is fueled by an awareness that others are enduring a personal apocalypse now, and that none familiar with its cause should remain immune to its effects.

*********
Brilliantly said!
ThanX for sharing it!
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