Global Warming, eh?

[compared2what?]

I'm not sure how that differs from using your judicious discernment to study artifacts, for which imaginary pastime I think you just condescendingly insulted me. To be honest with you. Yet you seem to think very highly of yourself for doing it.
I'm confused. How does that make you better than me except that in your opinion, you just are?

Not better than or worse than, the context is that there are causes and effects,...real people do, and the total number of these are probably about 10% of the world's population (and not necessarily all on the one side), and the 90% play out the consequences of the doers action, as 'actors',... they live in an sort of virtual reality brought to them by the 10%.

I'm sorry, but I'm still confused.

If, let's say, it was obvious not only that my general position on the subject we're discussing had been dictated to me by a paid shill, but also that I'd given it so little specific consideration that I was just mindlessly repeating his talking points without noticing errors that it wouldn't take more than a plain literal understanding of the words I was typing to reveal:

Then you might have a point.

But I'm not. I'm reading two sides of a dispute while making an effort to consider the points being made on their merits. And that does include considering the source to the best of my ability to do so, as you have every reason to know, due to, for example, my inquiry about the provenance of that graph.

IOW: It's not like I'm just...Oh, I don't know...taking my reality wholesale from the authorized person who hands it to me without adding anything of my own, including thought, and then proceeding to cling to it so blindly and tenaciously that when somebody else suggests I expand my understanding of it by reading another person's work, I flatly refuse to do it, without explanation.

So how, exactly, do you figure that my reality is brought to me by others rather than experienced independently?

Only those people of the 90% concern themselves with pride of position, possessions, appearance, respect from others, etc., as that is the only thing that gives them a sense of being real and of worth, and unfortunately if that is shattered then there is an awful emptiness and feeling of worthlessness as they are not yet really real people like the 10%ers. Theirs (90%ers) is a world based on conceptualized reality, ie.thought based, whereas the others live in the here and now and therefore are always in the thick of it (actual REALITY).

I don't care at all about my position relative to others. I don't like power, and it's a global dislike (ie -- I don't like it in others and don't like having it myself.) I suppose that I am concerned with respect to the extent that I feel my personhood should be acknowledged, at least in a general way, for social and political purposes. But again, that's a global deal, insofar as I believe it applies equally to all people.

I have to admit that I'm not totally indifferent to my possessions, though. I'm not status-conscious about them, and I don't own any fancy things. Nevertheless, I definitely do love the things I find beautiful very much. (Mostly old things -- books, objects, music, art, etcetera. Clothing, too, though. I cannot tell a lie.)

But aesthetic joy is a conduit to the divine, as I experience it. So I can't honestly apologize for that. And I don't really see why I should.

WRT appearance: I enjoy being a girl. Sue me.

Okay. I bore with you. But you weren't really talking to me. You were talking to some strawman.

I was talking to the whole person, the real person, the actor and the potential doer.

I understand that was your intention. But you were attributing all kinds of biases and prejudices to me that I hadn't shown any sign of having -- such as my putative enslavement to the diktats of proxies working for the PTB, as outlined above. So I'm afraid that you kind of missed the mark.

I appreciate the effort, though. And you still have my amity and respect, fwiw. As you would under all circumstances, assuming that you're a person. So no worries.

[norton ash]

^^^^ Beautiful. Pearls before swine are still pearls.

[Simulist]

And C2w is such a polite person, in addition to being so obviously intelligent. I sincerely admire her.

[compared2what?]

Thanks! I love and hold both of you in the highest esteem as well.

The only reason I don't mention it more often is that I've noticed that singling out someone for praise on an internet discussion board is kind of like hugging someone while leaving a Post-It note that says "Kick me!" on his or her back.

So...um...Please, you guys. You're being TOO KIND.



Besides, I'm a total asshole sometimes. Regrettably. We all know it.

[slimmouse]

Squeeky?, once again: what will stop tptb/corporate meatgrinder/4th dimensional shape shifting lizards/aliens from the tv show 'V', from doing whatever evil they chose, if they had your magical-unlimited energy machines?

People die and exist in grinding poverty courtesy of the cost of a barrel of Oil. Where I currently live, the average is electricity bill is about half of the average salary. So, If you dont understand why technology that takes this power away from the oligarchs , would make a difference to people, then perhaps I should remove intelligent from that list of plaudits previously offered.

And since youve forced me to to do so, I daresay I should post the link, cos you may not now be possibly smart enough to find it. Not that youre hero and other cheerleaders arent, but hey I think I know where some of them are coming from already. I should just ask you to notice the date this thread began btw, and then maybe ask yourself why youre cheerleader hasnt gone there.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29202

[wintler2]

... I should just ask you to notice the date this thread began btw, and then maybe ask yourself why youre cheerleader hasnt gone there.

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... =8&t=29202

Given that i am named in 1st post on that thread, i assume the cheerleader you're referring to in your customary insulting way is me. I suspect you taunt me regularly because i am reactionary & i actually help you to derail threads, but not this time. As mere words on a page are worth precisely nothing as physical proof, and if you really think you have a 'free energy' device that works, you should go build one, make a billion dollars, and then come back and rub my nose in it. Until then, go waste your own time.

[wintler2]

https://www2.ucar.edu/atmosnews/attribu ... ate-change

Are we "doping" our atmosphere?

What's going on with these record warm temperatures… extreme snowfall… even January tornadoes?

Is climate change the cause? Or more appropriately, what impact is climate change having on our weather?

To help answer those questions, a group of researchers has just released a new online guide for understanding the links between more extreme weather and a warming planet.

Is global warming throwing our weather out of whack? Scientists tell us there's no easy, blanket answer. The bottom line is that the evidence can be strong or weak, depending on the type of weather. That, admit researchers, can be confusing to anyone looking for a clear answer.

"This is a very complicated subject," said David Hosansky, spokesman for the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research, which produced the report and operates the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo. "We were convinced that these different messages could confuse the public and leave the people thinking that we just can't connect the dots. And in fact, a lot of the dots are being connected."

To help connect those dots, the center created a new webpage called "Weather on Steroids." (The banner image on the website even features a syringe injecting Planet Earth with an unknown substance.) They've even taken a shot at an animated analogy, comparing our weather to a baseball player on steroids.
...
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/global ... d=15534047

[Sounder]

wintler2, I just wonder how it is that people of your belief sets can make claims of progressiveness and yet be so freaked out by possibilities of different thinking that you are not even able to look at evidence.

It sort of reminds me of a bishop who refused to look through a telescope a few centuries ago.

Times really do not change much, do they?

Anyway, I have no inherent need for rancor and a number of the examples may be hoaxes or falsely narrated examples, but not all of them.

[wintler2]

...off-topic..

responded to here.

-

Back on topic..



-


Aristocrat AGW-denier advising Aus mining billionaires to buy up Aus media, which they have done - ALL major newspapers now controlled by blatent AGW-deniers Murdoch & Rinehart ..




Effective action on climate change is still a radical cause. Denying the real planet-scale impacts of human activities serves only the violently heirarchical status quo.

Parallels between denying AGW and denying of prevalence of elite pathology, the toxicity of many household products, and the corrupt motives of foriegn policy, are obvious, both in terms of who is doing the denying and who is benefiting.

[Sounder]

This fellow was a warmist himself but did not care for how inquires were handled. So much for 'objective' science.

I wonder how AGW friendly Bild Has been in the past?

Body Blow To German Global Warming Movement! Major Media Outlets Unload On “CO2 Lies!”

http://notrickszone.com/2012/02/06/body ... -co2-lies/

By P Gosselin on 6. Februar 2012

Page 2 story in Bild today! The first of a series.

“THE CO2 LIES … pure fear-mongering … should we blindly trust the experts?”

That’s what Germany’s leading daily Bild (see photo) wrote in its print and online editions today, on the very day that renowned publisher Hoffmann & Campe officially released a skeptic book – one written by a prominent socialist and environmental figure.

This is huge. More than I ever could have possibly imagined. And more is coming in the days ahead! The Bild piece was just the first of a series.

Mark this as the date that Germany’s global warming movement took a massive body blow.

Today, not one, but two of Germany’s most widely read news media published comprehensive skeptical climate science articles in their print and online editions, coinciding with the release of a major climate skeptical book, Die kalte Sonne (The Cold Sun).

Germany has now plunged into raucus discord on the heated topic of climate change

What has set it all off? One of the fathers of Germany’s modern green movement, Professor Dr. Fritz Vahrenholt, a social democrat and green activist, decided to author a climate science skeptical book together with geologist/paleontologist Dr. Sebastian Lüning.

Vahrenholt’s skepticism started when he was asked to review an IPCC report on renewable energy.

He found hundreds of errors. When he pointed them out, IPCC officials simply brushed them aside. Stunned, he asked himself, “Is this the way they approached the climate assessment reports?”

[Saurian Tail]

With regards to technology and AGW, I don't understand why the two positions need to be viewed as mutually exclusive. I believe global warming is anthropocentrically caused and I have no trouble with the proposition that revolutionary technologies are ignored and/or suppressed. What's the big deal?

Here is a revolutionary technology that is completely above ground that no one in the mainstream cares about in the least:



Reversing desertifcation is not technologically difficult. No, it is mentally and emotionally difficult! It requires a re-imagining of what it means to be a human being interacting with the web of life on planet earth.

You see, we are trapped by our language and cultural stories.

“Permaculture is revolution disguised as organic gardening.”

- Graham Burnett ‘Permaculture – A Beginners Guide’

We can do better. Much better. There is magic embedded in nature and our job is to discover it and cooperate with it. There are tantalizing clues all around us as to what is possible if we only open our eyes and think differently.

Terence McKenna once said "If the truth can be told so as to be understood, it will be believed." This is where we fail so miserably. Our cultural stories are false. Our language is inadequate. We fight over these false stories and we are not understood. The meaning of our existence eludes us because we have lost the ability to pay attention. Thus we thrash about in the dark.

[Ben D]

I appreciate the effort, though. And you still have my amity and respect, fwiw. As you would under all circumstances, assuming that you're a person. So no worries.

And thank you for your effort,...rationalizations and all. No offence though as everyone indulges in them to make themselves look right when chinks begin appearing in their armour of a cherished belief.

But seriously, enough of this off topic chit chat, you may be able to get away it but latest polls show my popularity rating is at rock bottom and there are drum beats of foreboding regarding the destiny of this thread, as well as a sense of welling of hatred in the gathering horde sniping away at a messenger of unwelcome words.

However as a sign of good will and compliance with correct RI protocol, I return the thread to topic and to a matter on which we can all tenderly nod our heads in agreement as we indulge in a humongous group hug and sing...

...RI posters can all agree, that Global Warming for all to see, since GW records began to be, is 0.8 of one degree C...

..namaste...

[Sounder]

Saurian Tail wrote…

With regards to technology and AGW, I don't understand why the two positions need to be viewed as mutually exclusive.

The two need not be mutually exclusive and it’s kind of sad to think that some people would believe that the two positions are mutually exclusive. My personal impression though is that bureaucrats believe that models are good while people are bad, and this is not fair. Bureaucrats, by definition cannot have a creative thought, ok that’s a bit of hyperbolae, but still they are not the go to guys when we are talking about as yet unmanifested potentials within nature. I mean common, let’s get real.

You see, we are trapped by our language and cultural stories.

We are trapped by our beliefs, that is where we choose to be trapped. Yes language is inherently limiting but we can write new cultural stories at any time. My curiosity is as to why folk seem to be so dependent on old stories while at the same time proclaiming quite loudly that they are proponents of a new story.

I think that the PTMB like AGW because it promotes a physicalist model of science. Win or lose, it’s about thinking that being in control is when we control some proxy element. It’s the anti-shadow for all the DU and radiation we spew into the environment.

[Iamwhomiam]

Slimmouse & Sounder, please keep your exotic energy arguments from polluting this thread, they're off topic here. Here we're discussing or trying to, the topic of Global Warming.

And slim, about this you wrote:

"People die and exist in grinding poverty courtesy of the cost of a barrel of Oil."

I really don't understand you two, slimmouse and Sounder. You ally yourself with one you must know (if you've read this thread) who's worked for one of the world's worst polluters, Mobil Oil, and yet you claim that I, an environmentalist and an activist involved daily in protecting public health and our environment, work in some mysterious way pushing the agenda of the worlds worst polluters and the ptb? And you give Ben D a free ride? Really, it's hard to take either of you seriously.

Ben D has been pushing the same agenda the polluters have been spending millions of dollars on in a massive PR effort to convince the public that pollution controls are onerous and hamper profits. Almost all of his sources admit AGW is real. Those that do not are simply incredible. His 'proofs' are all economic and one, in fact, suggests that the wiser and less costly thing for the ptb to do is to engage in geoengineering; spraying chemicals into our atmosphere. Environmental Economist Alan Carlin.

JEEEZUS!

[Sounder]

Iamwhomiam wrote...

Slimmouse & Sounder, please keep your exotic energy arguments from polluting this thread

Yeah this is such a pristine environment so far and all.

But really, where are the exotic energy arguments here, what a pedantic prig and wannabe cop you are.


Here is the go to guy on environmental policy for Aus. This is not about BenD, this is about pro-polluter scum that make out like that they care about anything more than money and power. Not you Iamwhoiam, you are prob along for the ride because you are smart but not smart enough to see through the bullshit. Do you think you can have BenD be the only one with enough guts to stay off the bandwagon if you keep abusing others until they give up the field? Governments love forms with no substance, and are looking to add the environment to the freedom and democracy shtick.

http://www.stopgillardscarbontax.com/20 ... nd-up.html

This is a borrowed cut and paste of the issue:

>Ross Garnaut: "The failure of our generation will haunt humanity until the end of time"
"While the good and gilt-edged professor was highlighting the impending loss of the Great Barrier Reef, a few thousand kilometres to the north, Lihir Gold, a mining company of which Professor Garnaut is chairman, was dumping millions of tonnes of toxic-sludge into the ocean near its mine site on Lihir Island, north of the Papua New Guinea mainland.

While the good professor has making us all feel guilty every time we turn on our leaf-blower or toaster, up in Papua New Guinea, his mine was destroying about 60 square kilometres of ocean floor, and it is just getting started. The mine has a life expectancy of 20 years so by the time it stops, toxic-waste will have destroyed coral reef and ocean life
over a vast area of the Pacific. It is creating a dead-zone".

http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/doo...mining-garnaut

Dumped into our world by Ok Tedi mining, of which Garnaut is a director:

http://www.quadrant.org.au/img/conte...aut%20mine.jpg

"The mine sludge contains cyanide and heavy metals and the practice of dumping toxic mine-waste, submarine tailings, into the sea, is *banned* in China, Canada and the United States. It is banned by the UN. But in his webcast to Lihir shareholders last month, Professor Garnaut made the extraordinary statement that “The LGL Board, [Lihir Gold] has always
adopted responsible environmental management. Our environmental track record of Lihir is exemplary".

"The Ok Tedi mess is considered the worst environmental disaster in the Southern Hemisphere, where over 20 years, 80,000 tonnes of mine waste has been dumped into the Ok Tedi and Fly rivers, every day. BHP, the then co-owner of the mine, sought legal indemnity from the PNG government for the pollution and environmental damage it caused in exchange for billions of dollars in compensation and restoration. Ok
Tedi affects 50,000 people and 120 villages and will take an estimated half a century to clean up.

So while we were all being lectured about our failure to protect the Murray River from the environmental consequences of global warming, by our overuse of fossil fuels, up north, across the border at Ok Tedi, a *Ross* *Garnaut* company has been up the mighty Fly River. Talk about hypocrisy.

http://phorums.com.au/showthread.php?28 ... -time-quot