Peak Oil

[wintler2]

A real solution might be/imagine if Obama nationalised US oil production (?about 1/3 of consumption?), and guaranteed everyone an equal share (aka oil depletion protocol). Then poor folks could be surer of having enough to get to work/school etc, and silly folks that still think driving is a recreation could pay the international market price for their indulgence. Even now, 40 years post-US-peak, there might still be enough for a smooth descent if carefully husbanded. But not if sold & burnt as quick as possible to whoever has the most money.

[Iamwhomiam]

Well, that's never going to happen, though I wish we would nationalize the oil companies, you know, for our National Security.

If Obama did such a thing as you've suggested, I suspect it would be very short-lived. He would most probably lose the the upcoming election because, well, because even more people than now would he's a Socialist.

But that could turn out to be a plus... he could win, too, with him being looked upon as a hero for disemboweling the oil companies. But then again, how does our imported oil get here? Right, the oil companies deliver it in their ships. So we're screwed either way.

I feel like a junkie, right about now. We'll keep paying whatever's asked until we cannot afford to pay any more.

[NeonLX]

Pump price of gasoline jumped $0.30/gallon overnight here. I noticed it as we went past a filling station on the bus I ride to work.

[JackRiddler]

If Obama did such a thing as you've suggested, I suspect it would be very short-lived. He would most probably lose the the upcoming election because, well, because even more people than now would he's a Socialist.

But that could turn out to be a plus... he could win, too, with him being looked upon as a hero for disemboweling the oil companies. But then again, how does our imported oil get here? Right, the oil companies deliver it in their ships. So we're screwed either way.

If he even made it to the election alive, the most likely scenario would be that he loses, but that this would be attributed to some personal enormity that comes suddenly to light. It's likely one or another segment of the "PTB" or CIA already have blackmail on him as an insurance policy, but we've also seen that sexual and/or financial nonsense charges can be fabricated and made to stick.

Of course, if the nationalization started immediately, and if it became the primary issue without distraction, and if he wasn't neutralized by one of these many means available... then he might emerge a hero, but it would be damn close. Because the oil companies, which would still be operating from abroad, and the banks, and most of the big corporations, would all do everything "to make the economy scream" and to paint him, not just as a socialist, but as a villain on Hitlerian scale. (Look, a brief attempt to restore Clintonian tax rates on the rich was enough for the likes of Schwarzman to call it equivalent to invading Poland.)

But anyway, this is all science fiction. Because never.

[wintler2]

In these days, sure, it is still unthinkable. But times change, i think often faster than we, who (if you'll forgive the generalisation) have always lived in the relative peace and stability inside the 1st world fence, can imagine. Nationalisation will eventually happen, if only to ensure supplies to the military. Some time between then and now, there will be a chance for some sorta democratic govt to seize the same resources for the common good.
Other than that hopeful possibility, adaptation must lie much closer to home, which is i think what NeonLX is reporting on. If i lived within coo-ee of you Neon i'd be getting together to find a way to capitalise on your farming knowledge. Where i am the supermarkets are still crushing farmers on price, but that worm will turn too as energy-intensive food distrib becomes more costly than local production. Hard to imagine maybe, but not as hard as it was ten years ago.

[NeonLX]

Yeah, fortunately "community gardens" are becoming quite popular 'round here. At chez Neon, we are working on converting the decrepit old lawn around our decrepit old house into veggie gardens as well. Grass lawns are utterly stupid. Heck, at least dandelions are edible...

[Iamwhomiam]

And dandelion flowers make a wonderful wine!

[Hammer of Los]

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I would rather reread the (Esalen connected) Ray Bradbury than worry about peak oil.

I dont drive and avoid flying unless nagged into it. I turn all my lights off etc.

I wish they would stop burning oil.

Then everyone could stop worrying about it.

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[wintler2]

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I would rather reread the (Esalen connected) Ray Bradbury than worry about peak oil.

I dont drive and avoid flying unless nagged into it. I turn all my lights off etc.

I wish they would stop burning oil.

Then everyone could stop worrying about it.

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Nice set of delusions you got there HoL, thanks for demonstrating the insulating and stupifying effects of wealth. Many a slave owner never saw their slaves.

[Hammer of Los]

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I have no wealth.

I own little.

What are my delusions?

I am not deluded about my liking for Bradbury.

I am not deluded about my lack of drivers' licence or fear of flying.

I use as little energy as I possibly can.

I own very little. I ask my wife only for my basic subsistence needs to be met.

Where are my delusions?

Where is my wealth?

You know, sometimes I really really like you Wintler2.

Other times, not so much.

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[wintler2]

Having the leisure to post here and the hardware to do it already makes us both the beneficiaries of huge investments of fossil fuels. How do you think the internet would work without plastic insulation on the wire, or the legions of techs who drive around maintaining the infrastructure? And deepsea cable layers, humming data centres you can see from space, and tech-trash pollution plumes that rise and settle out over countries a long way from both of us. Globalised manufacturing needs cheap oil, ditto supermarkets. In the unlikely event you made your computer from bellybutton lint and grow all your own food, fuel and fibre, what about your neighbours? Their tolerance of you is contingent on their needs being supported by oil. S'okay rilly, i used to be just as blinded by my own privelidge as you still are by yours.

[Hammer of Los]

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Having the leisure to post here and the hardware to do it already makes us both the beneficiaries of huge investments of fossil fuels. How do you think the internet would work without plastic insulation on the wire, or the legions of techs who drive around maintaining the infrastructure? And deepsea cable layers, humming data centres you can see from space, and tech-trash pollution plumes that rise and settle out over countries a long way from both of us. Globalised manufacturing needs cheap oil, ditto supermarkets. In the unlikely event you made your computer from bellybutton lint and grow all your own food, fuel and fibre, what about your neighbours? Their tolerance of you is contingent on their needs being supported by oil. S'okay rilly, i used to be just as blinded by my own privelidge as you still are by yours.

If that is how you feel, then why don't you stop using your computer to post here? If I am compromised by having internet access, then so are you. You wouldn't want to be a hypocrite, I'm sure.

I did build my own computer on a strict bang per buck basis, at much less than entry level pre build. And I am not sure about my neighbours tolerance of me being contingent on their access to oil. It's more likely contingent on how loud I play my highly eco friendly but cheap digital radio. I guess having a digital radio makes me a super polluter or something. I don't know. But I couldn't live without Planet Rock.

Any more than any of us could.

I do buy local produce as much as I can, plus fairtrade and all that.

Plus I constantly look for ways to reduce, reuse and recycle.

After all, its better than not doing so.

No, I suppose it shouldn't assuage my conscience.

Nor does it.

Have a nice day.

Oh, we do grow a small variety of vegetables in our garden, and plan to grow more.

Personally, I would like some sort of micro solar/wind generator, but yeah, I guess I am a dreamer.

And for a hobby I like to carve wood. Wood that nature gives freely unto me, out of her bounty. Wood that has fallen naturally. It's a simple, humble pursuit that costs me nothing. I'll carve you a walking stick if you pay me a little. You could send me some food instead, or find something else to barter. After all, the worker is worthy of his hire.





ps I am very happy Wintler2 to hear that you are no longer blinded by your privelidge(sic) as I am. Lacking your piercing insight, I humbly ask for your loving kindness and compassion.

pps The utter overthrow/overhaul of the capitalist system is something to be considered, but its rather a tall order. I hardly think you can criticise me on that score.

ppps Sorry this is not on topic about peak oil. I don't care about peak oil. We ought to stop burning oil anyway. I dont like to use oil, I use as little as I can. I don't know what else anyone wants me to do about it, other than be scared about imminent apocalypse. Well, I aint gonna be scared of imminent apocalypse. "Apocalypse" simply means "Unveiling" after all. Don't you want to find out what is behind the curtain?

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[wintler2]

...[defensive waffle]...

I'm not criticising you for hypocisy HoL nor setting myself up as better than you, just pointing out that your "i don't care cos i don't use oil" line is a dangerous delusion.

[Hammer of Los]

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I'm not criticising you for hypocisy HoL nor setting myself up as better than you, just pointing out that your "i don't care cos i don't use oil" line is a dangerous delusion.

Its not that I dont care cos I dont use oil.

I don't care because it seems there is little to nothing that I can do about it.

Those things that might conceivably be a relevant response to the imminent and permanent exhaustion of the planet's "fossil" fuel reserves and the transition to, hopefully, green renewable energy sources, I am already doing.

Especially given that I have already said I oppose burning "fossil" fuels.

I don't believe I have delusions, dangerous or otherwise. I guess some folk might disagree on that score.

Yet I am sure you are right that I am not doing enough. I probably should get my finger out and organise off grid renewable green energy generation for me and my 11 neighbours in our block of flats.

But again, that's a bit of a tall order. I am no technologist. I prefer Imagination to Reason.

It has a longer pedigree.





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[Hammer of Los]

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Furthermore, I am not really interested in Mike Ruppert's investment advice.

I don't have a portfolio.

I prefer to be as the birds in the trees.

Mike was more interesting when he was exposing the crimes of the CIA.

Yes, I know it isn't about Mike Ruppert.

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