Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby slimmouse » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:56 pm

American Dream wrote:
slimmouse wrote:

If you're getting at what I think you're getting at, I would say "member of the Israeli Right" for citizens of that State, and "supporter of the Israeli Right" for non-citizens.


Could you be more specific about who these members of the Israeli "right" are/have been, or is/was it not politically correct in your movement to name names.

But be careful now, cos you know youre heading into ZOG territory here, dont ya ? And we all know thats a whammie for the dupes.

Is it just me, or wouldnt you agree that this is kinda like chasing your own tail. You dont think by any chance that youve been duped too, do you ?
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby American Dream » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:30 pm

slimmouse wrote: You dont think by any chance that youve been duped too, do you ?


If by that you're alluding to anything in the general ballpark of Icke's "Rothschild Zionism" Theory, then- no, I do not think I've been duped.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby Searcher08 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:45 pm

Blimey - I post a video of a jazz song dedicated to Nica Rothschild for an intermission and come back to find a Finklestein on the table.
OK

I am going to start a
David Icke, the Superthread
thread

and a
Rothschild family under the microscope of RI at it's best
thread

and a

Palestinian Activism Issues
thread

and a
Serious Exopolitics / Annunaki thread


Put mathematically...
I appreciate this thread is being very contentious and at any moment, someone is probably driving someone else round the bend (First RI Theorem) and at any moment another someone is being driven up the wall by someone else (Second RI Theorem) but that Everything In A Thread Can Change Instantly (Third RI Theorem) .
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:49 pm

Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up -- Please Give Us an Acceptable Way of Insulting You

here denial... there denial.... everywhere denial

Should all holocausts be treated equally? That is the question


omittere


Genocide-ignoring lies in Obama's Mideast speech
By: Dr Gideon Polya | May 23, 2011

Image
Obama's speech on the Middle East is extraordinary for its comprehensive dishonesty involving egregious deceit, lying by commission and lying by omission. Obama's ignoring of the US-imposed Muslim Genocide (about 12 million indigenous deaths in Palestine, Iraq, Somalia and Afghanistan) is far worse than genocide denial or holocaust denial because at least denial admits the possibility of public discussion.

One is reminded of Winston Churchill who completely omitted from the text of his Nobel Prize-winning, 6-volume treatise The Second World War any mention the 1942-1945 Bengali Holocaust in which he deliberately starved to death 6-7 million Indians.

Obama's falsehoods in his 19 May 2011 Middle East speech are so numerous that one must confine analysis to the biggest lies as set out below.

Iraqi Holocaust,
Iraqi Genocide


Obama: After years of war in Iraq, we have removed 100,000 American troops and ended our combat mission there. In Afghanistan, we have broken the Taliban's momentum, and this July we will begin to bring our troops home and continue transition to Afghan lead.
Reality: ignoring US interference in Iraq's internal affairs and Israeli bombing of Iraq prior to 1990, the US has been making war on Iraq since 1990. In the Sanctions period 1990-2003, violent Iraqi deaths in the Gulf War totalled 0.2 million, avoidable deaths from war- and sanctions-imposed deprivation totalled 1.7 million and under-5 infant deaths totalled 1.2 million, 90% avoidable and due to US Alliance war crimes. Post-invasion in the period 2003-2011, violent deaths have totalled 1.5 million, post-invasion non-violent avoidable deaths from war-imposed deprivation total 1.2 million, under-5 infant deaths total 0.8 million (90% avoidable and due to US Alliance war crimes in gross violation of the Geneva Convention) and refugees total 5-6 million. 1990-2011 has seen an Iraqi Holocaust involving 4.6 million dead, an Iraqi Genocide as defined by Article 2 of the UN Genocide Convention. 50,000 US troops remain in Occupied Iraq backing a puppet Iraqi Government elected under Occupier guns and a semi-autonomous Kurdish Government in northern Iraq.
Obama's personal contribution to this carnage in occupied Iraq in the 2.3 years since his inauguration can be crudely assessed as 2.7 million x 2.3 years/ 8.3 years of occupation = 0.75 million dead Iraqis, this including 0.9 x 0.8 million infant deaths x 2.3 years/ 8.3 years of Occupation = 0.2 million dead Iraqi infants.

Afghan Holocaust,
Afghan Genocide.


Obama: In Afghanistan, we have broken the Taliban's momentum, and this July we will begin to bring our troops home and continue transition to Afghan lead.
Reality: the US-backed coup against a progressive secular government led ultimately to Russian invasion and war and civil war with the US backing fundamentalists such as the Taliban and Al-Qaeda led by Osama bin Laden. Excess deaths in the period of the war against the Russians and their indigenous supporters (1979-1989) totalled 2.9 million. Excess deaths in the subsequent Afghan civil war (1989-1999) totalled 3.3 million. Although the Taliban Afghan Government offered to send Osama bin Laden to a third country for investigation over the 9-11 atrocity (3,000 dead), the US preferred war that so far has killed 5.0 million Afghans, this including 1.2 million violent deaths, 3.8 non-violent avoidable deaths from war-imposed deprivation and 2.7 million under-5 infant deaths (90% avoidable and due to US Alliance war crimes in gross violation of the Geneva Convention). There are 3-4 million Afghan refugees and Obama's extension of the war to Pakistan has created 2.5 million Pashtun refugees, with US bombing of Pakistan being obscenely expanded after the devastating floods that made 20 million Pakistanis homeless. According to UNICEF Under the lying Bush-Obama official version of 9-11 no Afghans were involved in the 9-11 atrocity. Indeed bin Laden denied involvement in 9-11 and was not wanted for that crime by the FBI.
Obama's personal contribution to this carnage in Afghanistan in the 2.3 years since his inauguration can be crudely assessed as 5.0 million x 2.3 years/ 9.75 years of Occupation = 1.2 million dead Afghans, this including 0.9 x 2.7 million infant deaths x 2.3 years/ 9.75 years of Occupation = 0.6 million dead Afghan infants.

Somali Holocaust,
Somali Genocide


Obama made no reference to occupied Somalia, occupied Haiti or occupied Diego Garcia in his speech.
Reality: Somalia has been variously invaded and partly occupied by the US and thence by US-backed UN forces (December 1992- May 1995) or US surrogate forces (in the period 2006-2011) and it remains substantially occupied by US-backed foreign forces. Post-invasion excess deaths in this 18.5 year period (December 1992 May 2011) can be crudely assessed from infant mortality data to be about 1.8 million. Excess deaths from deprivation are 1.4 times under-5 infant deaths, 69,000 under-5 year old Somali infants die each year (UNICEF) and hence on this basis total excess deaths in the post-9-11 era total 920,000. This catastrophe merits the term
Obama's personal contribution to the post-9-11 part of the Somali Holocaust and Somali Genocide can be estimated as 1.2 million x 2.3 years in office/ 9.75 years post-9-11 = 0.3 million, this including 0.9 x 9.75 years x 60,000 under-5 infant deaths per year x 2.3 years /9.75 years = 124,000 dead Somali infants.

US-linked 9-11
atrocity and
murder of bin Laden


Obama: And after years of war against Al-Qaeda and its affiliates, we have dealt Al-Qaeda a huge blow by killing its leader Osama Bin Laden. Bin Laden was no martyr. He was a mass murderer who offered a message of hate an insistence that Muslims had to take up arms against the West, and that violence against men, women and children was the only path to change. He rejected democracy and individual rights for Muslims in favour of violent extremism; his agenda focused on what he could destroy not what he could build. Bin Laden and his murderous vision won some adherents. But even before his death, Al-Qaeda was losing its struggle for relevance, as the overwhelming majority of people saw that the slaughter of innocents did not answer their cries for a better life.
Reality: Osama denied involvement in 9-11 and was clearly not physically involved according to the lying Bush-Obama official version (in which all the alleged perpetrators conveniently allegedly died). Scientific evidence (notably compelling evidence for the explosive demolition of the 3 World Trade Centre buildings) and science, architecture, engineering, military and intelligence experts say that the US did 9-11 (possibly with Israeli involvement) and not men in caves in Afghanistan
In paragraph 4 of Obama's speech (quoted above) with a transposition of "Muslims" and "the West" Obama could have been talking about himself: "He [Obama] was a mass murderer who offered a message of hate - an insistence that the West had to take up arms against the Muslims, and that violence against men, women and children was the only path to change. He rejected democracy and individual rights for Muslims in favour of violent extremism; his agenda focused on what he could destroy - not what he could build."
Osama was wanted by the FBI in relation to the killing of 29 Americans in the 1998 East Africa Embassy bombing and the 2000 USS Cole bombing (29 Americans killed in all, 5 fewer than killed by the Apartheid Israelis in the attack on the USS Liberty in 1967) and not for the 9-11 atrocity (3,000 killed, almost certainly by the US, certainly not by Osama and very likely involving the Israelis).
Osama's great crime was rhetoric that helped enable the war criminal US war on terror that has so far actively or passively killed about 9 million Muslims in the 21st century (mainly in Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia, 2.3 million dying under Nobel Peace Prize winner and mass murderer Obama) plus a further 1 million people who have died from opiate drug-related causes due to the US restoration of the Taliban-destroyed Afghan opium industry

US role in the
Middle East region


Obama: The question before us is what role America will play as this story unfolds. For decades, the United States has pursued a set of core interests in the region: countering terrorism and stopping the spread of nuclear weapons; securing the free flow of commerce, and safe-guarding the security of the region; standing up for Israel's security and pursuing Arab-Israeli peace. We will continue to do these things, with the firm belief that America's interests are not hostile to people's hopes; they are essential to them. We believe that no-one benefits from a nuclear arms race in the region, or Al-Qaeda's brutal attacks. People everywhere would see their economies crippled by a cut-off in energy supplies. As we did in the Gulf War, we will not tolerate aggression across borders, and we will keep our commitments to friends and partners. This statement involves egregious lying by Obama.
Reality: the US first invaded this region in the 1801-1805 Tripolitania War in Libya. In the 20th and/or 21st centuries the US invaded most of the countries in this region, the list of countries invaded by the US including (West to East) Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Sudan, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. Middle East countries variously attacked by US-backed Israel include Tunisia, Libya, Sudan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine, Iraq, Turkey (9 killed on the Gaza Flotilla) and the US itself (34 killed on the USS Liberty, noting that the US could be considered part of the Middle East because it has forces in so many ME countries (notably Iraq, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan) and has variously attacked and occupied so many Middle East countries).
Obama said that For decades, the United States has pursued a set of core interests in the region: countering terrorism and stopping the spread of nuclear weapons; securing the free flow of commerce, and safe-guarding the security of the region; standing up for Israel's security and pursuing Arab-Israeli peace - but in reality the US has devastated the region with US and US-backed Israeli, French and UK state terrorism; the US has permitted Apartheid Israel to acquire reportedly 400 nuclear weapons; the US has applied sanctions to Libya, Palestine, Syria, Iraq and Iran, thus preventing the free flow of commerce; the US has undermined Israel's long-term security by backing the racism-, violence-, theft-, genocide- and militarism-based racist Zionist regime running apartheid Israel to the exclusion of peace based on justice, equity and reconciliation.
Obama said that: We will continue to do these things, with the firm belief that America's interests are not hostile to people's hopes; they are essential to them- but as for people's hopes just tell that to the parents of the 0.9 x 6.3 million = 5.7 million under-5 year old infants who have died due to US- or US surrogate-imposed deprivation in the in Palestine, Iraq, Somalia and Afghanistan.
Obama said: We believe that no-one benefits from a nuclear arms race in the region, or Al-Qaeda's brutal attacks. But the US backs nuclear armed, nuclear terrorist Apartheid Israel and refuses to support the nuclear-free zone proposed repeatedly for the Middle East by Iran. Al-Qaeda's terrorist crimes against Americans (according to the FBI) left 29 Americans dead, 34 fewer than the pre-9-11 American victims of Israeli sate terrorism. Yet US state terrorism has so far killed 4.6 million Iraqis and 5.0 million Afghans.
Obama said: As we did in the Gulf War, we will not tolerate aggression across borders - but the US has tolerated Israeli attack on Tunisia, Libya, Sudan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine, Iraq, Turkey (9 killed on the Gaza Flotilla) and the US itself. The US green-lighted the Iraqi attack on Kuwait and tolerates the Saudi invasion of Bahrain. Not satisfied with devastating Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan , the US (which has invaded about 32 countries post-1945) is now part of a France-UK-US (FUKUS) Coalition bombing Libya back to the pre-industrial age.
Simple analysis of this paragraph alone from Obama's 19 May Middle East speech proves Obama to be a pathological liar, holocaust ignorer and holocaust denier, as well as an anti-Arab anti-Semitic, Islamophobic, racist warmonger, war-maker and war criminal.

US violence and
repression in
the region


Obama said: The United States opposes the use of violence and repression against the people of the region. We support a set of universal rights. Those rights include free speech; the freedom of peaceful assembly; freedom of religion; equality for men and women under the rule of law; and the right to choose your own leaders whether you live in Baghdad or Damascus; Sanaa or Tehran.
Reality: the US has backed repressive dictatorships from Morocco to Pakistan; has invaded and imposed its will on nearly all the countries in the region; has been party to murderously attempting to exterminate major political groups it doesn't like in North Africa (the Muslim Brotherhood), Palestine (Hamas), Iraq (the secular Ba'athists), Afghanistan (both the secular socialists and the religious Taliban), democrats (Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States) and secular and religious democrats (Iran under the US-backed Shah) .

Iran

Obama said: Our opposition to Iran's intolerance as well as its illicit nuclear program, and its sponsorship of terror is well known. But if America is to be credible, we must acknowledge that our friends in the region have not all reacted to the demands for change consistent with the principles that I have outlined today. That is true in Yemen, where President Saleh needs to follow through on his commitment to transfer power. And that is true, today, in Bahrain.
Reality: Zionist-beholden US is a racist Zionist-dominated Lobbyocracy (money buys votes and influence) and Murdochracy (money determines public perception of reality) that has killed scores of millions of people around the world imposing US-acceptable regimes on other countries. 1950-2005 avoidable deaths from deprivation in countries variously occupied by the US in the post-1945 era total 82 million. Iran has not invaded another country for several centuries and has democratic elections but with a theocratic oversight (just as the Western democracies have Big Money and Big Media oversight) but anti-democracy US dismisses the election outcome. Likewise Lebanon has a vigorous democracy but the US Alliance dismisses the major Hezbollah group as terrorists. Unlike nuclear terrorist Apartheid Israel, US, UK and France, Iran does not have nuclear weapons and does not seek nuclear weapons.
And as for terror, Muslim-origin non-state terrorists have killed about 2,000 Westerners in 40 years (this figure excluding about 2,000 Israelis killed on stolen Palestinian land by aggrieved Palestinians since 1950 and the 3,000 killed on 9-11 the latter almost certainly killed by the US and quite likely with Israeli participation. Compare this evil killing of 2,000 Westerners over 40 years by Muslim-origin fanatics (some US-backed) with the circa 5,000 Americans killed every decade in Detroit, Michigan, the 29,000 Americans dying from guns every year, and the estimated 2.3 million Muslims killed by Obama alone in 2.3 years and the 0.9 million Muslim infants killed by Obama over the same period.
Israel should go back to 1967 borders
The good thing in mass murderer Obama's speech was his (qualified) insistence on the pre-1967 borders between Apartheid Israel and Palestine, something that has been supported by international law, the UN General Assembly, the UN Security Council and all decent, anti-racist humanity for over 40 years.
Of course the racist Zionists have immediately rejected this proposal to obey international law and international humanitarian conventions. Mehdi Hasan writing in the UK New Statesman commented on the US reaction from the traitorous racist Zionists and the racist Zionist beholden Congressmen in an article entitled The 535 Americans who are blocking peace in the Middle East, stating: The US Congress is so in thrall to the American Israel lobby AIPAC that it more of a hindrance to the peace process than the Knesset itself The Congress of the United States consists of 100 senators and 435 members of the House of Representatives; in effect, just 535 Americans are blocking efforts to bring peace to the Middle East. Why? In September, the UN General Assembly will prepare for a vote on whether to recognise Palestine as a sovereign state. But Israel's illegal occupation of the West Bank is a reminder of just how irrelevant UN votes are. It is the votes on Capitol Hill that matter.
And as for 21st century deaths, the racist Zionist (RZ)-promoted War on Terror has involved the deaths so far of about 6,034 US servicemen, 100,000 Americans [and 1 million people world-wide] who have died opiate drug-related deaths due to US restoration of the Taliban-destroyed Afghan opium industry, 200,000 under-5 year old American infants and millions more Americans who have died avoidably due to massive AIPAC-backed diversion of US funds from health and preventative medicine to killing Muslims.
Moves by JFK and Robert Kennedy to register pro-Zionist Lobbyists as agents of a foreign country were blocked by the respective assassinations (Robert Kennedy's assassination done by a Palestinian whose family were hostages of the racist Zionists in the Occupied Palestinian Territory ). Racist Zionism represents a huge threat to America, the West, humanity, democracy and to decent, anti-racist Jews who condemn racist Zionism.

Summary and
conclusions


Obama's speech was a disgraceful litany of lying by commission and lying by omission. Of course the biggest lie of all was implicit in the Obama back to 1997 borders with swaps. If Obama seriously wanted Apartheid Israel to obey the UN and International Law and return to the 1967 borders he would simply suspend the gigantic aid that permits this nuclear-armed racist Zionist colony to survive economically while treating its Indigenous Subjects and neighbours like untermenschen (sub-humans). Lying, racist, genocidal, anti-Arab anti-Semitic, Islamophobic, warmongering, war-making, war criminal Obama simply won't do it because of the power of the traitorous racist Zionist Lobby in the US. However decent people can say Yes we can by (a) informing everyone they can and (b) by imposing Boycotts, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) on Apartheid Israel and on all countries, corporations, people and politicians who support racist Zionism.
Countercurrents
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby American Dream » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:59 pm

seemslikeadream wrote:
Should all holocausts be treated equally? That is the question


I strive towards consistent principle with regards to Human Rights- and also towards Racism.

What about you, slad?
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby slimmouse » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:06 pm

American Dream wrote:
slimmouse wrote: You dont think by any chance that youve been duped too, do you ?


If by that you're alluding to anything in the general ballpark of Icke's "Rothschild Zionism" Theory, then- no, I do not think I've been duped.


Well, are you sure about that ? I mean you allude to oppose a horrendous political regime and appartheid warmongering state whose influence clearly extends throughout most of the Western world where it really matters , but seem to appear incapable of defining who this group are, beyond, to all intents and purposes a small and essentially meaningless label .

Talk about a faceless unquantifiable unknown enemy. Not that the elephant isnt actually in the room of course. Sure you arent chasing your own tail ? Sure you aint been just as duped as those who support this monstrousity into silence by confusion ?

Its almost as if theyre ......dare I say it some kind of metaphorical, now you see it now you dont shapeshifting entities. Perhaps theres a cartoon out there that could illustrate them ?

All your so called legitimate sources meanwhile it appears belong to the same group of Zionazis and holocaust deniers ( well "leftist" Finklestein for one - I eagerly await more), that you abhorr ?

How in the world did we end up in this situation in trying to identify this blatent monster, which the vast majority of Western public opinion ( or at least that which counts ) still seems to find as pure as the driven snow ?
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby AlicetheKurious » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:24 pm

To American Dream: I just knew you wouldn't answer any of my questions. Maybe you should have risked your head exploding -- might have done you some good, made you more human, someone capable of a real, honest-to-god conversation.

Why do you feel the need to repeat that you're an "activist", a veteran of the "trenches", "associated with many, many Palestine solidarity campaigns", blah-blah-blah? Do real activists even talk like that? Do you think such totally unsupported claims give you some kind of authority over others? (Even if they were supported, which they're not).

Maybe you've got some Walter Mitty thing going on, and we're supposed to gasp and be impressed. Maybe you think we're stupid, or you are. With all your copying and pasting of articles here, your contributions are neither original nor at all indicative of all this wealth of personal experience you say you've acquired "in the trenches" -- terms so vague they are little more than slogans or labels with no meaning or substance. In fact, you seem truly incapable of carrying on a discussion on level with more depth or complexity than that of slogans and labels, maybe bumper-stickers ("I strive towards consistent principle with regards to Human Rights- and also towards Racism.")

In all the years here, I can't recall one unique insight you've contributed, one story from all those supposed "trenches": just copy-paste, copy-paste, and then, when you do finally emerge from behind all those articles written by other people, you do so to make your robotic, repetitive, poisonous insinuations, usually in the form of a classic passive-aggressive question, oddly impervious to reason or rebuttal, only to retreat behind your articles again until the next time, leaving behind a trail of destroyed, boring, petty threads and a fog of bad feelings. This has just happened too many times; it's very frustrating.

What a terrible waste. I'm ready to give the "ignore" button a shot. I strongly recommend that slad and slimmouse join me, before they're driven off the deep end. Can anybody tell me how it works?
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby American Dream » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:34 pm

slimmouse wrote:
American Dream wrote:
slimmouse wrote: You dont think by any chance that youve been duped too, do you ?


If by that you're alluding to anything in the general ballpark of Icke's "Rothschild Zionism" Theory, then- no, I do not think I've been duped.


Well, are you sure about that ?

Yes.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby Sounder » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:13 pm

Alice wrote...
To American Dream: I just knew you wouldn't answer any of my questions.


Sometimes I wonder if this is a forum for cultivating obsessive entrenchment rather than being a discussion board.

And anyway Alice, it would be bad for the 'movement' for AD to actually engage with questionable folk such as us.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby eyeno » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:47 pm

This trips me out beyond my ability to understand it. In the interest of science I plan to run a web bot test. I don't get this I really don't. I am tripped out by this Finklestein thing. How in the hell could AD ever endorse Finklestein, a known holocaust skeptic? Is this a web bot? Lets find out...

Premise: Perhaps there is an advanced form of web bot intelligence in this world.

Theory: If so, It would speak in short sentences, be unable to answer questions, and sometimes give conflicting answers that do not fit a general theme because it has no personal convictions.

Test: Give bot two instances of philosophy that agree. One of which the bot has agreed to and has stated is "solid stuff." Other instance a quote that is of same philosophy that bot has not commented on, yet....

Test below for bot: Trigger words for bot, of course, its own name.

American Dream, you have stated that Finklestein is "solid stuff" do you agree with this statement?

American Dream, do you agree with the following quote from Jewish historian Arnold Wiznitzer in reference to the North American black slave trade? “the buyers who appeared at the auctions were almost always Jews, and because of their lack of competitors they could buy slaves at low prices. If it happened that the date of such an auction fell on a Jewish holiday the auction had to be postponed.”

American Dream, how do you "feel" about these statements?

In The United States Jewry 1776-1985 Jacob Marcus wrote, “all through the eighteenth century, into the early nineteenth century, Jews in the North were to own black servants. In 1820 over 75% of all Jewish families in Charleston, Richmond, and Savannah owned slaves. Almost 40% of all Jewish householders in the United States owned one slave or more.”
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby Searcher08 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:07 pm

If unclear how the last N posts are related to the OP?

It would be nice to refocus on it. This thread is a bit of a fast breeder reactor for important issues still I wonder if we are not missing a trick by not addressing the OP? :angelwings:
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby eyeno » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:18 pm

Searcher08 wrote:If unclear how the last N posts are related to the OP?

It would be nice to refocus on it. This thread is a bit of a fast breeder reactor for important issues still I wonder if we are not missing a trick by not addressing the OP? :angelwings:



Absolutely. I agree. My scientific mind could not resist testing the inconsistent Finklestein reference though. That was too much. I have mostly stayed out of this thread but data being what it is, this had to be addressed. Lets see what happens. The answer should yield loads of data. I like data. I can crunch data. I specifically structured the data to be somewhat conclusive. I doubt I will reply to what ever answer comes from it, but my background dictates I apply the test.

edit...

The reason I pick I slavery in the north american south is because the NAME american dream wrote pages, pages, pages, pages, about its evils. Now I want to see finklestein and north american slavery come together in some sort of homogenous way. When I say "bot" I mean it from the bottom of my heart. I have never seen more than one or two sentences come from the name american dream. I want to see more. Sorry, but i'm skeptical that technology has overtaken the conversation. I may be stupid, probably I am, but I know damn well that finklestein and civil war slavery don't go together. Or so they? Maybe they do? They just don't. Or do they? I can figure that one out in my sleep. I want to see the bot figure this out. I want to see if we get several paragraphs of coherent written dialogue on the subject. If not, then we don't. Bots can't write paragraphs that have the same common theme. Not yet...anyway...
Last edited by eyeno on Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:20 pm

:shock:
move over David :)

Lib Dem peer resigns party whip in row over anti-Israeli remarks
Israeli ambassador condemns peer who quit party whip after refusing to apologise for saying country would not last for ever

Nicholas Watt, chief political correspondent
The Guardian, Wednesday 29 February 2012

Liberal Democrat peer Lady Tonge has been criticised by Nick Clegg, George Osborne, the Israeli ambassador and the chief rabbi.

Israel's ambassador to Britain has issued a defiant message after a Liberal Democrat peer said the country would not last for ever "in its present form".

Daniel Taub said Israel had "no intention of going anywhere" after Lady Tonge warned the country to "beware" because the United States would eventually end its support for its ally in the Middle East.

The ambassador spoke out after Tonge resigned the party whip after rejecting a call from the party leader, Nick Clegg, to apologise or leave the Lib Dem grouping in the Lords. Tonge told the leadership in a phone call that she could not accept the ultimatum from the deputy prime minister because she stood by her remarks.

Clegg acted after the Guido Fawkes website ran a video clip of Tonge at a Middlesex University meeting last week, where she said: "Beware Israel. Israel is not going to be there forever in its present form. One day, the United States of America will get sick of giving £70bn a year to Israel to support what I call America's aircraft carrier in the Middle East – that is Israel. One day, the American people are going to say to the Israel lobby in the USA: enough is enough. Israel will lose support and then they will reap what they have sown."

The Israeli ambassador, who was speaking at a dinner organised by the Community Security Trust, said: "We have had some troubling reminders, even most recently hearing shockingly a member of the House of Lords saying that Israel will not be there for ever. I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I tell Baroness Tonge we have no intention of going anywhere."

The chancellor, George Osborne, who was at the same dinner, said: "I've got a message for Jenny Tonge. The state of Israel is going to be around a lot longer than you are, Jenny."

Clegg said: "These remarks were wrong and offensive and do not reflect the values of the Liberal Democrats … The Liberal Democrats have a proud record of campaigning for the rights of Palestinians, and that will continue, but we are crystal clear in our support for a two-state solution."

The chief rabbi, Lord Sacks, said the remarks were "dangerous, inflammatory and unacceptable" and "have no place in civil public discourse".

Tonge, who was sacked as the Lib Dem children's spokeswoman in the Commons in 2004 when she suggested she could consider becoming a suicide bomber, blamed "Zionist campaigners" for the furore. The peer said: "The comments I made have been taken completely out of context. They followed a very ill-tempered meeting in which Zionist campaigners attempted continually to disrupt proceedings. They mouthed obscenities at the panellists, to the extent that university security attempted to remove them from the premises.

"The comments I made were in protest at the treatment of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank and the treatment of Israeli Arabs. I am disappointed the leadership of my party did not consult me before issuing a press release and seems always to abet the request of the pro-Israel lobby."

The Liberal Democrats Friends of Israel said it applauded Clegg's sacking of Tonge: "Nick rightly gave Jenny Tonge the chance to apologise and retract her recent statement on Israel and she declined. The rest is history. I hope this now draws a line under the continual smearing of Lib Dem party policy on Israel and the Middle East by former Lib Dem Baroness Tonge. I'm pleased to say she is now somebody else's problem."
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby American Dream » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:05 am

eyeno wrote:
I may be stupid, probably I am.


Well, there's at least some glimmer of hope that things might change.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby eyeno » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:02 am

American Dream wrote:
eyeno wrote:
I may be stupid, probably I am.


Well, there's at least some glimmer of hope that things might change.



This is amazing. Seriously. I don't know what to think. Bot city I guess.

One more try.

American Dream, you have stated that Finklestein is "solid stuff" do you agree with this statement?
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