Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby Searcher08 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:02 am

eyeno wrote:
American Dream wrote:
eyeno wrote:
I may be stupid, probably I am.


Well, there's at least some glimmer of hope that things might change.



This is amazing. Seriously. I don't know what to think. Bot city I guess.

One more try.

American Dream, you have stated that Finklestein is "solid stuff" do you agree with this statement?


Why are you asking someone if they agree... with themselves??
And WTF does research into Jewish slavery participation practices have to do with this thread???

Jesus H Christ , this thread has Attention Deficit Disorder.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:42 am

I am not and never have been a holocaust denier....I am a believer in many many holocausts and would like to see fair treatment for every genocide committed on this planet.

Why would this be happening now?

move over Tonge, it's Art's turn

Republican Congressional Candidate Says 'Holocaust Never Happened'

Art Jones, who hopes to challenge Democrat Dan Lipinski in Illinois' 3rd Congressional District, neither denies nor repudiates his past affiliation with the neo-Nazi Party.

By Lorraine Swanson
February 29, 2012

A congressional candidate running as a Republican in the upcoming Illinois primary says the “Holocaust never happened.”

Arthur Jones, 64, a Lyons, IL, insurance salesman who organizes family-friendly, neo-Nazi events around Adolf Hitler’s birthday, hopes to be the Republican candidate chosen to run against Democratic Congressman Dan Lipinski in Illinois’ 3rd Congressional District.

“As far as I’m concerned, the Holocaust is nothing more than an international extortion racket by the Jews,” Jones said. “It’s the blackest lie in history. Millions of dollars are being made by Jews telling this tale of woe and misfortune in books, movies, plays and TV.

"The more survivors, the more lies that are told."

A member of the Nationalist Socialist Party in his younger days, Jones took part in the Nazis’ march on Chicago’s Marquette Park in 1978. While he doesn’t deny nor repudiate his “past affiliations,” he says he votes Republican “90 percent of the time.”

“Philosophically, I’m a National Socialist,” Jones said. “Officially, I don’t belong to any party except my own, the America First Committee.”

Jones hopes three’s a charm after blowing his retirement savings on two prior congressional runs. He hopes to win the Republican primary and go on to challenge Lipinski this November. The 3rd District covers portions of Chicago's South Side and a large swath of the south suburbs.

Part of the reason he’s jumping in again is what he describes as Lipinski’s strange affiliation with the American Israel Pro Israel Affairs Committee.

“(The committee) was bragging on their website how (Lipinski) is ‘spearheading’ the effort in the House of Representatives with a Jewish congressman from Virginia named Frank Wolf,” Jones said. “The two are spearheading an effort in the House to get tough with Iran, including closing off any oil exports to China that could lead to World War III.”

While Jones said Wolf was Jewish, he is Presbyterian.

Jones compares today's conditions in the United States to Germany following the end of World War I.

“Our country is falling apart economically, politically, culturally, militarily,” he said. “We are going down.”

A veteran of the Vietnam War with all of its modern horrors, he sees the same betrayal in the “so-called War on Terrorism.”

“These war-mongering fools in congress like Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney—we can’t let Iran have one nuclear weapon but we let Israel have all the nuclear weapons they want,” Jones said. “This is ridiculous.”

Jones is on the ballot against Jim Falvey and Richard Grabowski in a district that has sent a conservative Democrat to Congress for decades. The district includes sizable ethnic populations, primarily the descendants of Irish, German, Polish and Czech immigrants.

In his Patch candidate questionnaire, Jones submitted that he's not been convicted of a felony but has been arrested for "minor street skirmishes with Leftists."

Editor's Note: Story has been updated to reflect that Congressman Frank Wolf is Presbyterian and not Jewish.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby psynapz » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:40 am

eyeno wrote:Sorry, but i'm skeptical that technology has overtaken the conversation.

Well if so, I think it might be broken or something... There's one good cure-all for a malfunctioning computer:

Image

eyeno, you're new here. It's not your fault. It happened to all of us once.

AD does paste in a lot of articles, and basically only converses when there's an opportunity to pet the whole thread from tail to head, over and over again, until it finally reaches around and swats at him, which he takes as license to hold the thread down by force and pet it even harder in the wrong direction until it passes out from having its thready little lungs crushed under the weight of his fasces. That's his schtick.

But what you wouldn't know, being new, is that on at least one occasion I couldn't possibly find right now if I tried, another poster in the NY-NJ-PA area has claimed in passing to have met AD in person and had a wonderful time, over drinks with a small group of RI posters if I remember correctly. I want to say it was beeline who mentioned this here once, but I could be wrong. Can someone corroborate this please, since AD won't address anything asked of him directly? AD's identity as an organic human being here depends on it, and we certainly couldn't ask him to provide us with a scan of his birth certificate, now can we?

Unless AI's sophisticated enough to convince a paranoid bar booth full of other RI personalities that it too is a real person has been developed inexpensively enough for one to be allocated almost exclusively for disrupting RI on a regular basis and very very occasionally making a convincing human appearance somewhere? I doubt that, on the face of it.

Now with all that said, also since you're new here, you have to understand why we have a moderation rule against calling other posters out as agent provocateurs or any other form of mal-intended board disruptor. That being:

The community would collapse neatly into its own footprint in a matter of weeks if we didn't.

You need to proceed on this board under the assumption that one or more lurkers and one or more active posters are willing participants in a long-term project to at least monitor if not subtly disrupt this board whenever we get too close to dangerous truths that might radicalize some of us into action against the entities involved, but you need to behave on this board like everybody is here in earnest and in free agency as truth seekers constructing deeper understandings of and better solutions to all the world's problems either created or exacerbated by fascism in any form.

The reason you must behave this way is because feeding into paranoid disruption of constructive conversation meets or exceeds the goals of any potential troublemakers present, and not giving way to call-outs, lynch mobs and courts of public opinion stifles and drastically reduces their potential vectors of attack on conversational momentum here. Let them out themselves first, then we'll all run them out of town with torches pitchforks, but not a second before.

In short, the only way we can defeat disruption here is to pretend it's not happening, and that any disruption is the result of ego imbalance, which is also more statistically probable assuming all posters are human beings with neurochemical consciousness, which is also more fruitful to assume unless an AI outs itself as an AI, which you have to wonder whether that's even possible at any rate.

If nothing on-topic is accomplished with this thread, it's my sincerest hope that it at least inspires AD to be less irritating, interrogatory and, well, fascist, and just generally open up more to constructive dialogue. Double bonus if he stops begging us to invent a drinking game involving his use of italics, bold, and large font size, which might help the rest of us if my aforementioned hopes for inspiration are not realized. :cheers: :happydrunk: :puke:
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby American Dream » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:59 am

I have my own perspective on things here.

Principles of the utmost importance to me include: anti-Racism, academic rigor, and doing real and effective work to change Society in a positive direction. There are many others, but these are three that I will mention at this time.

In addition, I do not see conspiracy research as entertainment, nor as breezy as shooting the shit at a pub. I see the world as in a very serious crisis- with the possibility that humans may survive it- but pretty much hanging by a thread. So the stakes are high- and whether we are perpetuating bullshit or taking things to a higher level makes all the difference...
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:11 pm

eyeno,

Here are two of the board's posting guidelines:

The charge or insinuation of "disinfo agent" can almost never be proven, and poisons and often ends meaningful discussion. Therefore suggesting a poster is purposefully spreading disinformation is not permitted.


Please refrain from personal attacks, and keep arguments issue-based.


While accusing a poster of being a web bot isn't specifically mentioned, I'm going to say that it falls under both of the above guidelines, in that the charge is unprovable, while also moving the conversation away from the issue-based dialogue that we strive for here at RI.

This is an official warning to not do it again.

If you do it again, your account will be suspended.
"Arrogance is experiential and environmental in cause. Human experience can make and unmake arrogance. Ours is about to get unmade."

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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby psynapz » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:24 pm

American Dream wrote:I have my own perspective on things here.

Principles of the utmost importance to me include: anti-Racism, academic rigor, and doing real and effective work to change Society in a positive direction. There are many others, but these are three that I will mention at this time.

In addition, I do not see conspiracy research as entertainment, nor as breezy as shooting the shit at a pub. I see the world as in a very serious crisis- with the possibility that humans may survive it- but pretty much hanging by a thread. So the stakes are high- and whether we are perpetuating bullshit or taking things to a higher level makes all the difference...


Italics, take a drink. :cheers:

Large font size, take a drink. :beer:

Ooh that last one was a Guinness. Hope he goes back to font-size normal soon, before somebody pukes on his shoes...
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:29 pm

psynapz wrote:
American Dream wrote:I have my own perspective on things here.

Principles of the utmost importance to me include: anti-Racism, academic rigor, and doing real and effective work to change Society in a positive direction. There are many others, but these are three that I will mention at this time.

In addition, I do not see conspiracy research as entertainment, nor as breezy as shooting the shit at a pub. I see the world as in a very serious crisis- with the possibility that humans may survive it- but pretty much hanging by a thread. So the stakes are high- and whether we are perpetuating bullshit or taking things to a higher level makes all the difference...


Italics, take a drink. :cheers:

Large font size, take a drink. :beer:

Ooh that last one was a Guinness. Hope he goes back to font-size normal soon, before somebody pukes on his shoes...


Knock it off, psynapz, or you'll be taking a breather from the board.

If the next post isn't on topic, this thread is headed to the fire pit.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby psynapz » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:58 pm

Bruce Dazzling wrote:
psynapz wrote:
American Dream wrote:with the possibility that humans may survive it- but pretty much hanging by a thread. So the stakes are high- and whether we are perpetuating bullshit or taking things to a higher level makes all the difference...


Italics, take a drink. :cheers:

Large font size, take a drink. :beer:

Ooh that last one was a Guinness. Hope he goes back to font-size normal soon, before somebody pukes on his shoes...


Knock it off, psynapz, or you'll be taking a breather from the board.

If the next post isn't on topic, this thread is headed to the fire pit.

Bruce, I accept this challenge personally, out of my previously-stated respect for you sir.

A couple years ago at a launch party for some damned company at some damned bar in the middle of some other damned competitor company's industry conference they were effectively hijacking at happy hour, I cornered an Israeli I knew from Twitter and such, and had great intellectual respect for, mostly as an innovative hacker type in general, and proceeded to question him, kinda AD-style but with all the down-home sincere friendliness my warm face could convey given the luxury of in-person conversation which I'm sure AD would project here if such a thing were possible over text.

Anyway, what I got out of him was that he was anti-fascist, first and foremost, and that he was among a very large and still-growing contingent of Israelis who were as fed up with hateful, warmongering, Zionist fascism as he and I were. He felt that there was a great parallel between the Likudniks among him at home and the dixiecratic Bush-holdovers in the US, and that the thing which brought them together was brainwashing. We were on the same page.

He said people like him, the younger and educated, are more afraid of the Israeli government than they are of Hamas or the Palestinian Territories, and grow more appalled at the human rights abuses perpetrated upon the latter by the day. This was the most incredible breath of fresh, hopeful air I ever breathed on the subject of Israeli politics.

On the other hand, he'd never heard of Rachel Corrie, but wasn't surprised when I told him about it. It left me with the impression that he's more industry-famous than I am because while I spend my time here studying modern fascism, he's studying industry-related shit and coming up with way more applicable novelty than I am. By the end of the conversation, I felt like I had just given him a TSA pat-down and sent him along, and I felt like an asshole. An impeccably-well-informed asshole.

The other takeaway from that, which I guess I never truly concretized intellectually at a distance from studying daily politics, is that failing to make the distinction between Israeli and Zionist is a failure to overcome incredibly well-funded, actively-perpetrated mass mind control. A point that's as obvious here as it is important to reiterate anywhere, even here. Although I tend to assume around here that "Israel" + [negative statement] = criticism of "Zionism", not "anti-semitic".

More to the recent points raised, without straying back too far into the danger zone of perpetuating this bullshit any further than I already have, the anti-fascism crowd is a big tent, and has to be. Ron Paul should take Nazi money. I should take Nazi money. We should all take whatever the Machine will give us at a minimum of effort, and turn that value around and use as much of it against the Machine as efficiently as we can, putting as much mass-action leverage into it as we can.

NeonLX told a story recently about this right-winger he works with who snowblew Neon's driveway even though they argue to the death about politics at work. You know, sometimes you just have to put aside the divisive bullshit that would be dangerous to progress in less critical times of need, grab either end of the rear bumper of the car of liberty stuck in the snow, and on the count of three, fucking push.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:01 pm

the difference between them

I am not anti-semtic!

Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby barracuda » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:27 pm

psynapz wrote:The other takeaway from that, which I guess I never truly concretized intellectually at a distance from studying daily politics, is that failing to make the distinction between Israeli and Zionist is a failure to overcome incredibly well-funded, actively-perpetrated mass mind control. A point that's as obvious here as it is important to reiterate anywhere, even here. Although I tend to assume around here that "Israel" + [negative statement] = criticism of "Zionism", not "anti-semitic".


Thanks for returning to the topic. Is it possible in this context to support Israel as a geo-political entity without being considered a zionist or zionist enabler? This goes back to the basic question of whether or not Israel ought to exist at all, in any form, a question which I doubt many here would be interested in addressing sincerely, fraught as it is with just the semantic landmines that AIPAC, et al. depend upon for their suppression of discussion.

seemslikeadream wrote:I am not and never have been a holocaust denier....I am a believer in many many holocausts and would like to see fair treatment for every genocide committed on this planet.


That's great, but for every thread on this board about, for instance, the ongoing genocide and cultural extinction of TIbet by the PRC, we get five hundred threads about Israel.

psynapz wrote:More to the recent points raised, without straying back too far into the danger zone of perpetuating this bullshit any further than I already have, the anti-fascism crowd is a big tent, and has to be. Ron Paul should take Nazi money. I should take Nazi money. We should all take whatever the Machine will give us at a minimum of effort, and turn that value around and use as much of it against the Machine as efficiently as we can, putting as much mass-action leverage into it as we can.


It's a nice thought, but Nazis, like everyone else, expect to actually get a little sumpthin-sumpthin for their investment, something which Ron Paul, for example, might just be tacitly willing to acceed to, or which might simply be programmatic for his ideology.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby slimmouse » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:46 pm

Bruce Dazzling wrote:
If the next post isn't on topic, this thread is headed to the fire pit.


Back to topic ?

When somebody posts anything on topic, in threads such as this they get the AD treatment. When the argument develops, AD resorts to smear/confusion tactics.

Heres back to topic for you Bruce.

The Israeli lobby should be called out for what they are. A bunch of duped stooges under the brainwashed influence of the 0.00001% of the populus. These controllers are morally Bankrupt cowards. Cold blooded, Sly, heartless predators interested only in their own control and self preservation. You know , kinda reptillian.

I personally believe that. In fact I doubt many here would dispute that.

Icke believes that the Rothschilds are one facet of the spider. And since his books if anyone dare read them anymore, ( given the AD cartoon show), are chocked full of evidence to support this claim based on years of research, then I aint gonna argue.


Hope thats on topic enough.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby American Dream » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:53 pm

slimmouse wrote: Icke believes that the Rothschilds are one facet of the spider. And since his books if anyone dare read them anymore, ( given the AD cartoon show), are chocked full of evidence to support this claim based on years of research, then I aint gonna argue.


I think my comments from four pages back bear repeating here:

American Dream wrote:


A few verifiable facts are mixed in a soup of dubious assertions
that we're supposed to believe, why?

Because David Icke- The Messiah- said so?
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby slimmouse » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:56 pm

barracuda wrote:
It's a nice thought, but Nazis, like everyone else, expect to actually get a little sumpthin-sumpthin for their investment, something which Ron Paul, for example, might just be tacitly willing to acceed to, or which might simply be programmatic for his ideology.


Indeed Barracuda. Programmatic for his ( our ? ) ideology.

Which is why, if you dare, you might look at the Icke video that SLAD posted.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby psynapz » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:59 pm

Image

Bears repeating indeed.

slimmouse wrote:Which is why, if you dare, you might look at the Icke video that SLAD posted.


seemslikeadream wrote:
American Dream wrote:
A few verifiable facts are mixed in a soup of dubious assertions
that we're supposed to believe, why?


sounds like the M$M to me :)

Or this here board. Discernment of all that which is perceived is more important than the purity of the perceptive field, innit?
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby slimmouse » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:01 pm

American Dream wrote:
slimmouse wrote: Icke believes that the Rothschilds are one facet of the spider. And since his books if anyone dare read them anymore, ( given the AD cartoon show), are chocked full of evidence to support this claim based on years of research, then I aint gonna argue.


I think my comments from four pages back bear repeating here:

American Dream wrote:


A few verifiable facts are mixed in a soup of dubious assertions
that we're supposed to believe, why?

Because David Icke- The Messiah- said so?


I did actually write about that. But deleted it, since in a five minute video its impossible to mention the years of facts and research in his books which lead Icke to reach those conclusions, and which by all apparent standards is off topic. Which is proabably why you went there.
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