David Icke Superthread

[AhabsOtherLeg]

I don't want to seem like an Icke hater (I'm not really, just don't trust him, due to his totally indiscriminate acceptance of all sources of info, regardless of their reliability - and his willingness to trumpet them far and wide regardless, then never apologise) but I have to admit I've been reading the big thread on the Fortean Times message board recently, which has skewed me against him. I was never an admirer anyway - I watched the Wogan thing as a kid, when it was first broadcast, not long after heard about the "V" thing, and remember his prediction that the Isle of Arran would disappear into the sea, which it didn't then and hasn't yet. To be fair, some of his other predictions did give the appearance of coming true, but that's an easy enough trick. Even Jesus wasn't above trying it -"there will be wars and rumours of wars." O rly?

His message boards are a disgrace, but that's not his fault.

Anyway, wasn't the reptillian thing always meant to be a metaphor for people who are ruled by the amygdala - the residual reptile brain-part which governs fear, hate, lust, greed, etc? He was on the right track with that, I reckon. But then the literal big lizards trooped in.

[coffin_dodger]

Icke's folly into lizards etc may be the very thing that has kept him alive. Amongst some of the crazier stuff lay interesting avenues that the discerning inquisitive can look into further. The media portarying him as 'crazy' has, perhaps counterintuitively, kept him safe.

How would one go about telling the majority of the world population that their entire lives (and that of their descendants and ancestors) was/will be lived merely to keep a small group of people, with the 'correct' bloodlines, in luxury and splendour, for thousands of years?

Not an easy job. For starters, no one will want to believe it. But how is it even possible that nobody would have noticed?

Nature. Nature is hardwired into every single atom of every single creature on this planet.

Does a worker ant know it's a worker ant? Does the Queen ant and her courtiers know their place in life? Does she reflect on the lot of her worker ants, whose only job is to keep her safe and nourished?

Nature has a way of hiding many ideas from being thought. The ability to think does not guarantee 'knowing'. For thousands of years we all thought there was a God. A few hundred years ago we thought the Earth was flat. 15 years ago we thought the universe was 20 billion years old, we were absolutely sure it was, now we absolutely know it's 12 billion years old.

As it stands, the Universe has been proven to be expanding at an advancing rate. So are our consciencenesses, along with it. Each and every one of us. We are experiencing a renaissance of sorts. A renaissance of looking at ourselves. The internet has connected millions of disparate minds at the speed of light and new thinking is emerging, questioning the trends that Nature has imposed upon us.

This is supposed to happen. Nature still has the upper hand, and always will. It is simply drawing back the curtain to show that the old way is over and is opening up the thoughts of the ants to new possibilities. A lot of my fellow ants that I talk to about this just want to stay plugged in to the Matrix, especially when confronted with uncomfortable truths. But nature will make it too obvious to ignore, eventually.

Wonderful, but it's going to be messy.

[seemslikeadream]

Anyway, wasn't the reptillian thing always meant to be a metaphor for people who are ruled by the amygdala - the residual reptile brain-part which governs fear, hate, lust, greed, etc? He was on the right track with that, I reckon. But then the literal big lizards trooped in.

That's what I figured

not the most dangerous man on the planet or here for that matter

[seemslikeadream]

Icke's folly into lizards etc may be the very thing that has kept him alive. Amongst some of the crazier stuff lay interesting avenues that the discerning inquisitive can look into further. The media portarying him as 'crazy' has, perhaps counterintuitively, kept him safe.

How would one go about telling the majority of the world population that their entire lives (and that of their descendants and ancestors) was/will be lived merely to keep a small group of people, with the 'correct' bloodlines, in luxury and splendour, for thousands of years?

Not an easy job. For starters, no one will want to believe it. But how is it even possible that nobody would have noticed?

Nature. Nature is hardwired into every single atom of every single creature on this planet.

Does a worker ant know it's a worker ant? Does the Queen ant and her courtiers know their place in life? Does she reflect on the lot of her worker ants, whose only job is to keep her safe and nourished?

Nature has a way of hiding many ideas from being thought. The ability to think does not guarantee 'knowing'. For thousands of years we all thought there was a God. A few hundred years ago we thought the Earth was flat. 15 years ago we thought the universe was 20 billion years old, we were absolutely sure it was, now we absolutely know it's 12 billion years old.

As it stands, the Universe has been proven to be expanding at an advancing rate. So are our consciencenesses, along with it. Each and every one of us. We are experiencing a renaissance of sorts. A renaissance of looking at ourselves. The internet has connected millions of disparate minds at the speed of light and new thinking is emerging, questioning the trends that Nature has imposed upon us.

This is supposed to happen. Nature still has the upper hand, and always will. It is simply drawing back the curtain to show that the old way is over and is opening up the thoughts of the ants to new possibilities. A lot of my fellow ants that I talk to about this just want to stay plugged in to the Matrix, especially when confronted with uncomfortable truths. But nature will make it too obvious to ignore, eventually.

Wonderful, but it's going to be messy.

thanks for the post

[crikkett]

The most rational explanation for Icke that I can imagine is that one of his psychedelic experiences caused a tendency towards mental illness to bloom into full-blown delusion, and that he's been trying to cope ever since. His wife must be a saint.

There's nothing wrong with making a living off of your fantasy world if you don't hurt people along the way.

I don't know if he's hurt anyone. I got bored with his unprovable claims and empty calls to action a long time ago. He's not an historian, he's an entertainer and a salesman. Buy his book, you'll see!

[Searcher08]

The most rational explanation for Icke that I can imagine is that one of his psychedelic experiences caused a tendency towards mental illness to bloom into full-blown delusion, and that he's been trying to cope ever since. His wife must be a saint.

There's nothing wrong with making a living off of your fantasy world if you don't hurt people along the way.

I don't know if he's hurt anyone. I got bored with his unprovable claims and empty calls to action a long time ago. He's not an historian, he's an entertainer and a salesman. Buy his book, you'll see!

Interestingly, I saw a vid years ago where he revisited Peru where he had his first big experience (which wasnt psychedelic induced IIRC) I think he mentioned that it was quite overwhelming and was told it was going to start a process in his life that would turn it upside down. He actually seemed quite clear that he had NOT assimilated it for years after it and that it took him a long time to see that. I think his Ayhuasasca encounters were much later...

I had not read any of The Biggest Secret and was surprised by it - the chapter Rory linked to on bibliotechplyades it actually had extensive references at the end of the chapter.

The style of it reminded me of the Ancient Aliens History Channel docs - it even referred to some of the sites mentioned in it.

[Stephen Morgan]

Not really an Icke fan, never have been, but in my view, no. Not really. He's like the Johann Hari of conspiracy theorists - nothing he says is particularly original, and it's mostly dumbed down to attract (or pander to) a wider audience, and all pretence at journalistic integrity is pre-emptively thrown out the window before the story begins in the name of "full disclosure."
...
whereas Johann Hari just straight up lied a lot.

And plagiarised a lot, and lied to present a case for the Iraq war, and had to give back his Orwell Prize.

As you were.

[Stephen Morgan]

A few hundred years ago we thought the Earth was flat.

No we didn't.

As it stands, the Universe has been proven to be expanding at an advancing rate.

Don't give me that Dark Energy bullshit. It's the scientific mindset, get your sums wrong, conclude that magic did it, or whatever you want to call invisible forces undetectable by any means. Which change into kinetic energy without entropy, in clear violation of all relevant known physical laws. In reality those measurements are unreliable because they rely on the speed of light being a constant.

Wizards all the way down.

[Stephen Morgan]

Also, if Im not mistaken, Icke does actually mention in one of his works that Cathy O Brien had actually retracted some of her claims WRT the reptile thing.

I'm pretty sure she only made one such claim, about seeing Bush the Elder shift in front of her, using a holographic device of some sort.

[crikkett]

he's an entertainer and a salesman. Buy his book, you'll see!

I had not read any of The Biggest Secret and was surprised by it - the chapter Rory linked to on bibliotechplyades it actually had extensive references at the end of the chapter.

The style of it reminded me of the Ancient Aliens History Channel docs - it even referred to some of the sites mentioned in it.

Well I've been wrong all week, why stop now? I'll cede the point if it gets me out of having to read his stuff.

[Searcher08]

he's an entertainer and a salesman. Buy his book, you'll see!

I had not read any of The Biggest Secret and was surprised by it - the chapter Rory linked to on bibliotechplyades it actually had extensive references at the end of the chapter.

The style of it reminded me of the Ancient Aliens History Channel docs - it even referred to some of the sites mentioned in it.

Well I've been wrong all week, why stop now? I'll cede the point if it gets me out of having to read his stuff.

Wombats description of his work being like a collage applies to The Biggest Secret chapter I read. It had a high density of sourced, interesting anomalous stuff, woven with much err.. randomness.

[Rory]

I'd be interested to hear from an Icke fan on this. To ask again, slightly rephrased -

Has Icke made any original insights or revelations of his own?

Has he brought any new material or ideas to the parapolitical table - ones that are not merely recycled and repackaged, with added sensationalized catches and hooks?

Probably not Rory. What he has done however is brought many people into the fold (as you have kinda expressed yourself) and is continuing to do so.

Thing is, Icke didn't bring me into the fold. I distrusted him long before I had enough evidence to confirm my suspicion. I think i intimated that although I think his casual personality doesn't appear to be toxic, his willful ignorance of the effect his branding has (ie. zero self analysis) makes me deeply suspicious of him.

Daniel Casarolo is a good example of someone who winds up dead because of the material they bring to light. There are many of them: actual investigators who dig up genuine, criminal parapolitical dirt, go out on a limb or blow whistles: Icke has stated that the Queen of England is literally a shapeshifting lizard.

And he continues on his merry way, rotating the conspiragoround. (Maybe if he had stated the queen was an octopus, he wouldn't be alive today..)

Seriously though, I remember (2003) discussing the nyc wtc with a friend who immediately brought up Icke as a reference. Before long, lizards and the queen were being discussed. I jokingly said this sounds like the plot of 'V', to which my friend replied that that was exactly what Icke said: he had been formulating the ideas around reptilian metaphors and allegory and then someone showed him 'V', and it 'blew his mind'.
That, right there, cut him off from serious consideration for me - anyone with that poor critical judgement (not just to go there introspectively but to publish and broadcast it), was a conspiraloon, or worse, a deliberate bad faith actor who is intentionally marginalizing specific strands of investigation for nefarious reasons.

I'm willing to give him the bvenefit of the doubt in this case and 'he's just a harmless loon', label. But in light of what pw and lpt said, I wonder: certainly their account of his ignoring the wishes of the source for a story; to deliberately twist it into a salacious and sensational hook for the audience seems to be a pretty unpleasant and 'bad faith' trait.

And the references in his book are not exactly peer reviewed and I have suspicion that many would lead back to similar and unsubstantiated works of conspiratainment.

If he is useful to anyone, I have my doubts that it is to anyone except those who have things to hide. The very people who he claims to expose are actually inured and insulated by Ickes exposure of them. He is effectively doing a better job of protecting tptb/evil by talking about it than by shutting up shop, and teaching his son to be a goalkeeper.

[Simulist]

Icke brought people into "the fold"?

Well, maybe — as sheep.

[Project Willow]

Probably not Rory. What he has done however is brought many people into the fold (as you have kinda expressed yourself) and is continuing to do so.

Ill say this again, because it bears repeating ( since if its happened to me then its happened to countless others ) I wasnt even aware of the SRA phenomenon or the joke that is the FMSF until I'd read David Icke ( I think it was the Mcmartin day care scandal) that first brought it to my attention.

The fold of what? Inaction? Ignorance? Superstition? This is not a positive point, it's precisely the problem. I don't want people introduced to RA through someone like Icke, that guarantees we'll never get what we need from society. I want people to learn from reliable sources and spread information that will be helpful rather than harmful.

This is yet another subject, which very few people are willing to touch with a very long pole. Also, if Im not mistaken, Icke does actually mention in one of his works that Cathy O Brien had actually retracted some of her claims WRT the reptile thing. But Icke suggests that he has spoken to too many people who have had similar experiences, including non SRA victims ( which should be emphasised) and who continue stand by their claims to dismiss these experiences out of hand.

Threrefore, whilst I do understand PW and Lilys concerns WRT Icke, hes not all bad news ( certainly WRT to exposure of the plight and struggle of both themselves, and no doubt millions of others worldwide.)

No, you are incorrect. In case I wasn't clear enough earlier, these aren't really concerns I have, they're real, in my face, humiliating experiences. Icke plays a major part in the great main stage production that has rendered survivors of RA and MC into social pariahs. The real features of RA are sensational enough, but he's blown them fully into the outer reaches of the patently ridiculous. This takes our job of spreading awareness from difficult to impossible. I have to change my entire vocabulary when I speak to my experiences in order to avoid eye rolls and insults.

Icke is a modern day snake oil salesman selling harmful fairy tales, leave him and his bottles on the side of the road.

[seemslikeadream]

I'd be interested to hear from an Icke fan on this. To ask again, slightly rephrased -

Has Icke made any original insights or revelations of his own?

Has he brought any new material or ideas to the parapolitical table - ones that are not merely recycled and repackaged, with added sensationalized catches and hooks?

Probably not Rory. What he has done however is brought many people into the fold (as you have kinda expressed yourself) and is continuing to do so.

Thing is, Icke didn't bring me into the fold. I distrusted him long before I had enough evidence to confirm my suspicion. I think i intimated that although I think his casual personality doesn't appear to be toxic, his willful ignorance of the effect his branding has (ie. zero self analysis) makes me deeply suspicious of him.

Daniel Casarolo is a good example of someone who winds up dead because of the material they bring to light. There are many of them: actual investigators who dig up genuine, criminal parapolitical dirt, go out on a limb or blow whistles: Icke has stated that the Queen of England is literally a shapeshifting lizard.

And he continues on his merry way, rotating the conspiragoround. (Maybe if he had stated the queen was an octopus, he wouldn't be alive today..)

Seriously though, I remember (2003) discussing the nyc wtc with a friend who immediately brought up Icke as a reference. Before long, lizards and the queen were being discussed. I jokingly said this sounds like the plot of 'V', to which my friend replied that that was exactly what Icke said: he had been formulating the ideas around reptilian metaphors and allegory and then someone showed him 'V', and it 'blew his mind'.
That, right there, cut him off from serious consideration for me - anyone with that poor critical judgement (not just to go there introspectively but to publish and broadcast it), was a conspiraloon, or worse, a deliberate bad faith actor who is intentionally marginalizing specific strands of investigation for nefarious reasons.

I'm willing to give him the bvenefit of the doubt in this case and 'he's just a harmless loon', label. But in light of what pw and lpt said, I wonder: certainly their account of his ignoring the wishes of the source for a story; to deliberately twist it into a salacious and sensational hook for the audience seems to be a pretty unpleasant and 'bad faith' trait.

And the references in his book are not exactly peer reviewed and I have suspicion that many would lead back to similar and unsubstantiated works of conspiratainment.

If he is useful to anyone, I have my doubts that it is to anyone except those who have things to hide. The very people who he claims to expose are actually inured and insulated by Ickes exposure of them. He is effectively doing a better job of protecting tptb/evil by talking about it than by shutting up shop, and teaching his son to be a goalkeeper.

So Rory who do you think, of the two, was a more dangerous man on the planet, David Icke or Winston Churchill?

Last time I checked Churchill threw 7 MILLION souls into the trash bin....show me any proof that Icke has come anywhere, anywhere close to that DENIAL

Winston Churchill completely omitted from the text of his Nobel Prize-winning, 6-volume treatise The Second World War any mention the 1942-1945 Bengali Holocaust in which he deliberately starved to death 6-7 million Indians.

you will be hard pressed to find a word about Churchill's Holocaust denial at RI in 7 years

then why is it so god damn important to make sure discussion of Icke is made non existent here? What Icke threat is oh so much more evil than ignoring 7 million INDIAN souls