David Icke Superthread

[Simulist]

Icke is a modern day snake oil salesman selling harmful fairy tales, leave him and his bottles on the side of the road.

Or put him in the middle of the road, and run over him with a truck.*

There is nothing benign about Icke, and all this talk of him being well-meaning seems terribly, terribly silly to me. And naive.

He's a tool. And he's being used — against his target audience.

_________
* Figuratively speaking, of course.

[Rory]

So Rory who do you think, of the two, was a more dangerous man on the planet, David Icke or Winston Churchill?

Last time I checked Churchill threw 7 MILLION souls into the trash bin....show me any proof that Icke has come anywhere, anywhere close to that DENIAL

I didn't know about Churchill and the dead indians, but that it doesn't surprise me in the slightest given the context of british imperial rule and modern warfare.

Do you know about Operation Searchlight? Gul Hassan Khan and the West Pakistan military command? None of these things relate directly to Churchill but millions of Bangladeshis died anyway. Soil erosion and water quality related issues will kill many more Bangladeshis before our time is done.

There is a dangerous tendency to trivialize atrocity by discussing it in terms of numbers - certainly when trying to score points (my mass murder is worse than your mass murder..).

This thread is about Icke - someone can do harm, even if they don't have access to the kind of power that kills millions by executive administrative decision. If you want to talk about Icke and related harm then frame it perhaps in the context of his buying more time for the horrors of the world - protecting them from investigation and discover by his lizard taint.

Bangladesh deserves to be discussed but it only serves to demean their story and experiences to use it a a way of sounding off about perceived moderation biases.

[alwyn]

the human brain has been trained to think that if A=B, and B=C, then A=C. This may be true in algebra, but in other realms it is dangerous. One of the common ways that people get hooked into cults is with the bait of 'truth'. They get one big truth that cracks open their brain to a 'wider' (or different) view. They may think that this truth 'confirms' what they always expected. Being herd animals, they TEND to follow the first source of 'truth'. After all, if the first thing is true, then the rest must be. If the first truth is big enough, or the opening radical enough, you can keep people following you for quite some time.

Sufis, who tend to be experts in the function of the human brain, as well as training it to perceive reality, talk about conversion syndrome. They have a saying 'you must get off the camel that brought you here'. Meaning, you have to leave aside your preconceptions of truth to progress. They also say 'be prepared to understand that what you think of as truth may be superseded, or may mean different things at different times. I've found it to be good advice in investigating the realms of inner space, or even other dimensions.

I've related in another thread the tale of one of Icke's followers (girlfriend) being so scared of lizards that Icke made her shower several times a day...something to do with water keeping evil away. She had to be healed in the desert, far away from water, and she ran around stinky for quite some time, getting over it. This, verbatim to me, from the omechuacan (sp?) who did the healing.

Icke is icky.

[seemslikeadream]

This thread is about Icke - someone can do harm, even if they don't have access to the kind of power that kills millions by executive administrative decision. If you want to talk about Icke and related harm then frame it perhaps in the context of his buying more time for the horrors of the world - protecting them from investigation and discover by his lizard taint.

I disagree and you have proven my point. You did not know about 7 million Indians but you do know about Icke?....How informed is that? Spending so much time on the evils, the holocaust denier Icke, absolutely demeans what has happened in the past...you give Icke way way too much credit....it would be nice if we could discuss the REAL holocaust deniers in the world. instead of blip on the screen Icke. He has no power compared to Obama, BB, all the nuclear holders of the world....please spare me the comparison...there's is none in the universe that even comes close....Who dropped the bomb on Japan? Who is responsible for 50,000 deaths in Vietnam? Who started the war in Afghanistan, Iraq? Who's denying the Armenian Holocaust even to this day? The U. S. government and France! I'd say those two countries have a bit more power than Icke.

We are discussing Icke as a holocaust denier...at least that's how this whole thing started.....only a fool would believe he has the power of a nuclear weapon or the means to re-write the "official" history of the world, that the masses will read and believe. Those are the ones that should be "outed" as Holocaust Deniers, and to relegate one group of people to the rights of the phrase Holocaust Denial is something that should be avoided and outed as a LIE....not trivialized by focusing on Icke. Our focus is being channeled, diverted from the real vampires by spending so much time on Icke

[Simulist]

So Rory who do you think, of the two, was a more dangerous man on the planet, David Icke or Winston Churchill?

Of the two, which is more dangerous: asbestos or plutonium?

Whichever, I wouldn't recommend either as a dietary supplement.

[seemslikeadream]

So Rory who do you think, of the two, was a more dangerous man on the planet, David Icke or Winston Churchill?

Of the two, which is more dangerous: asbestos or plutonium?

Whichever, I wouldn't recommend either as a dietary supplement.

false comparison there Simulist...more like

plutonium and sugar

[Simulist]

So Rory who do you think, of the two, was a more dangerous man on the planet, David Icke or Winston Churchill?

Of the two, which is more dangerous: asbestos or plutonium?

Whichever, I wouldn't recommend either as a dietary supplement.

false comparison there Simulist...more like

plutonium and sugar

Mmmm. All that Ickey sugary-sweetness...

(Plutonium never sounded tasty before. )

[Jeff]

So Rory who do you think, of the two, was a more dangerous man on the planet, David Icke or Winston Churchill?

Of the two, which is more dangerous: asbestos or plutonium?

Whichever, I wouldn't recommend either as a dietary supplement.

false comparison there Simulist...more like

plutonium and sugar

Seemed perfectly apt to me. (Of course, so might sugar, if you consume enough of it.) But a little sprinkling of Icke can poison truth for a curious mind. And a provocative discussion board.

[slimmouse]

I guess Im incredibly fortunate not to be in the position of PW, who may or may not speak for thousands or even millions with regard to her suffering courtesy of what I believe is Ickes gullibility as opposed to intent. I do take exception to the idea that any of this is intentional on his part.

And whilst, I guess it pales into significance compared to PW, I for one can say that Icke has enriched my journey on this planet significantly. I wouldnt be here for instance, amidst( by and large ) one of the most intelligent communities online had it not been for him.

And if I hadnt come here, I wouldnt have learned to distinguish racist borders and opinions from Xenophobia ( Yes IMO theres a world of difference) - even though that cost me one of my best friends in the process. Not because I dont have friends who arent xenophobic, but because some people should know better

Yes, I do have friends who are xenophobic. In England its all "Pakis" this and "Pakis" that. One of the reasons I forgive their ignorance in instances such as this, is because I believe that is all part of the deliberate conditiong programme, which is one thing Icke is 100% on the money about. Whenever this kind of conversation occurs, I simply show my disgust by shutting up completely, other than the odd snarkey comment here and there.

I guess like anything else it ultimately, in this five senses reality, comes down to judgement calls. And whether right or wrong in the minds of other individuals, it is my own personal belief that Icke is anything but poisonous.

All that said, my heartfelt sympathies go out to you PW

[seemslikeadream]

So Rory who do you think, of the two, was a more dangerous man on the planet, David Icke or Winston Churchill?

Of the two, which is more dangerous: asbestos or plutonium?

Whichever, I wouldn't recommend either as a dietary supplement.

false comparison there Simulist...more like

plutonium and sugar

Seemed perfectly apt to me. (Of course, so might sugar, if you consume enough of it.) But a little sprinkling of Icke can poison truth for a curious mind. And a provocative discussion board.

a little sprinkling of Winston Churchill Nobel Prize-winning, 6-volume treatise The Second World War 1942-1945 can do a lot of 'official' poisoning also

[Searcher08]

What Project Willow said. When you have a life history that most people don't want to believe is real (because then they might have to open their eyes and perhaps actually do something about the presence of covert slavery in our society), the very last thing you need is to have your plight associated with an uncritical reporter like Icke. He makes it easier for otherwise well-intentioned people to decide not to believe people like me. Whether he's muddying the waters deliberately or not, the result is the same for me and for other survivors of systematized abuse--we're lumped in with the outer fringe and our testimonies become ignorable.

It's difficult for me to get past that, but when I can, I find myselves interested in him and his life. He's likable. I wonder what made him the way he is and whether he truly is as genuine as he comes across as being. I recall Cathy O'Brien's* complaint that once he got her story about GHW Bush wrong, he persisted in presenting his version to audiences no matter how many times she tried to correct him. That's inexcusable behavior for a researcher. And for him to stubbornly stick to the most sensationalistic version in the face of another less frothing-at-the-mouth version of the incident pretty much damns him in my eyes. But if that behavior is the result of some sort of mental disorder, then I'd like to know that.

It sucks that some of the loudest voices talking about mind control are so broken themselves that they taint the whole subject. I think it's worth our while to talk about Icke and try to figure him out. It's an RI thing to look into the darker corners and try to see as clearly as possible, so let's do it. I have an old friend who's a real fan of Icke's and I've offended him many times with my questions about the guy, but I keep on asking, because I think it's important.

LilyPat

*Yes, I'm aware of her credibility problems, but this specific incident was a pretty clear-cut a case of Icke misrepresenting her story and then refusing to make a public correction when asked to do so (whatever the truth of the actual incident was). IIRC--and it's been a while--she'd been the research subject in an experiment of some kind, involving Poppy reading from a book to her (or to an alter) and her perceptions were affected by either hypnosis, drugs or both. So what she saw need not have been literal fact, but Icke treated it as such.

Icke gets a lot of stick re the Reptilian meme, but my perception is that it came from Arizona Wilder (and Icke accepted it at face value).

On her youtube videos, Arizona Wilder to me seems like someone who is delusional or a schizophrenic describing experiences which are real and are happening to them - but not in consensus reality.

Brice Taylor seems a very different story and her tale about being Henry Kissinger's mind controlled NIkita, then having Ted Gunderson as an adviser - my feeling was that there was a barrelload of disinfo being poured into Icke's head.

In contrast to the above, there is a video on youtube of an MK_Ultra survivor describes her experience in a very powerful (and for me personally absolutely heart wrenching) way. She was so understated and factual and in great contrast to Wilder's possible mental illness and Taylor's possible disinfo.

I hope I am raising this in a sensitive way.

[Elvis]

---

I may as well volunteer my 2¢ on Icke--

Around 1999 a friend handed me The Biggest Secret and said I should read it. I think I'd previously heard Icke on the Art Bell radio show. (Bell later banned Icke from the show, on the grounds that "I just don't buy it"; George Noory let him come back.) I eagerly dove into the book for its steady hits of conspiracy dope(amine).

The Biggest Secret is like, as they say, a big Chinese combo meal. Mmmm, sweet 'n sour! Have you tried the spring rolls?! OMG these chestnuts! The texture!

Afterward you're peckish again, thinking, "didn't I just eat a big meal?"

I actually reread much of the book (skipping some chapters) to try and get some purchase on its ingredients, but, as I remember, important details were fuzzy, such as where is the footnote for the Paris tunnel CCTV cameras suddenly malfunctioning right in time to not record Princess Diana's last moments? If that happened, it's a pretty big deal, I'd say. But I couldn't find any documentation for it, and as I recall, it's just something someone told him.

The lizard people thing, at least in The Biggest Secret, seems to be based what he was told by two or three people plus a couple of third-hand reports along the lines of "this one guy said he saw this other guy change into a lizard for a moment." Of course he ties it in with all the dragon symbolism in British culture, which is interesting in itself, but altogether it's too thin as a foundation for a comprehensive view of "reality."

I tried to read another Icke book but there was a lot of overlap with Biggest Secret and I just thought, "is this trip necessary?" I perused his website (this was around 2000-2001) and have since watched a couple of his videos on YouTube, and that's been plenty enough for me.

Icke could be right about Diana's death, I suppose (it's one of the more interesting chapters as I recall), and the existence of lizard-like aliens wouldn't especially surprise me, but I don't share any of his certainty about it, and his materials are not anything I share with others (as I'm wont to do with more persuasive stuff).

I didn't get the impression Icke is antisemitic, and I was watching for it. I think it's quite possible he's been fed bad information to poison the banquet.


Egad---have I just written this much on David Icke? In any case, this is an interesting thread, it's good to thrash it out.

[slimmouse]

---

I may as well volunteer my 2¢ on Icke--

Around 1999 a friend handed me The Biggest Secret and said I should read it. I think I'd previously heard Icke on the Art Bell radio show. (Bell later banned Icke from the show, on the grounds that "I just don't buy it"; George Noory let him come back.) I eagerly dove into the book for its steady hits of conspiracy dope(amine).

The Biggest Secret is like, as they say, a big Chinese combo meal. Mmmm, sweet 'n sour! Have you tried the spring rolls?! OMG these chestnuts! The texture!

Afterward you're peckish again, thinking, "didn't I just eat a big meal?"

I actually reread much of the book (skipping some chapters) to try and get some purchase on its ingredients, but, as I remember, important details were fuzzy, such as where is the footnote for the Paris tunnel CCTV cameras suddenly malfunctioning right in time to not record Princess Diana's last moments? If that happened, it's a pretty big deal, I'd say. But I couldn't find any documentation for it, and as I recall, it's just something someone told him.

The lizard people thing, at least in The Biggest Secret, seems to be based what he was told by two or three people plus a couple of third-hand reports along the lines of "this one guy said he saw this other guy change into a lizard for a moment." Of course he ties it in with all the dragon symbolism in British culture, which is interesting in itself, but altogether it's too thin as a foundation for a comprehensive view of "reality."

I tried to read another Icke book but there was a lot of overlap with Biggest Secret and I just thought, "is this trip necessary?" I perused his website (this was around 2000-2001) and have since watched a couple of his videos on YouTube, and that's been plenty enough for me.

Icke could be right about Diana's death, I suppose (it's one of the more interesting chapters as I recall), and the existence of lizard-like aliens wouldn't especially surprise me, but I don't share any of his certainty about it, and his materials are not anything I share with others (as I'm wont to do with more persuasive stuff).

I didn't get the impression Icke is antisemitic, and I was watching for it. I think it's quite possible he's been fed bad information to poison the banquet.


Egad---have I just written this much on David Icke? In any case, this is an interesting thread, it's good to thrash it out.

Well, at least ,not for me you didnt. Thanks for that Elvis. Some of the posters on here who appear to "know" what Icke is all about strike me as hypocritical, given that one of the many criticisms of the man is that he claims to know all this stuff with certainty - which to be absolutely honest about is does irk even a fan such as myself sometimes.

[Searcher08]

slim, do you have any thoughts on the Brice Taylor / Arizona Wilder stuff?

I have not listened to the Icke interview with Credo Mutwa and the whole tradition of interaction with star people he talks about.

I think one of the major points of departure I have from DI is around his splicing of 'Illuminati bloodlines' with exopolitics and then his displaying certainty around it.

[crikkett]

So Rory who do you think, of the two, was a more dangerous man on the planet, David Icke or Winston Churchill?

SLAD - - I'm sorry your holocaust thread got locked.

I've only seen vids of Icke presentations. By reading comments in this thread I can see how his rhetoric is harmful to society at large, by distracting from and marginalizing real horrors.

I think it's human nature to prefer imaginary horrors. I can imagine why he attracts the people he does.