David Icke Superthread

[Simulist]

Whether or not David Icke is wittingly setting about to make other people stupid are propositions that may not be able to be conclusively proven.

But what he does has that precise effect — while further injuring the already-harmed.

[brainpanhandler]

ALL of you. Pretend to be the other. Pretend to be your seeming antagonist. Take the other's position and see if you can defend it, even if only privately. Just try it. It won't kill you. I promise. And your conscience will feel cleaner when you resettle into whatever position you deem most probably true.

I so rarely see anyone, even here, actually change their minds about anything.

[Simulist]

I used to like David Icke, Brainpanhandler.

I changed my mind.

[slimmouse]

David Icke is not the Messiah.

Indeed he isnt. Just part of infinite consciousness along with the rest of us.

He has problems with anti-Semitic narratives.

Well in that case he should be in pretty good company surely ?

He mixes true facts with lots of unfounded assertions.

What is the difference between a strongly based opinion and an assertion ?

His mind control narratives have big problems.

Yep. It strikes me upon reading this thread that there are some serious issues here. Which I guess makes it dangerous to subsequently make assertions as opposed to opinions , given the clear sensitivity of the subject.

The overall impression I get of the major criticisms of Icke thus far, is that theyre largely based upon his assertions. Whenever I see a video of him, Im often confronted by that problem ( his "assertiveness" ) myself, even as someone who admires the overall work hes done enormously.

But as someone who makes the same mistake on a day to day basis, perhaps thats why I can personally forgive him that

Heres my take on the world, which probably aligns closely with Ickes, though there are millions who undoubtably subscribe to the same thinking.

There are currently 7 billions fractals of infinite consciousness on this planet in the form of human beings. And there is currently a major effort to steer those fractals of consciousness in a collectve direction, which is essentially, on this physical plane counterproductive to all concerned, bar the few doing the herding.

[Rory]

Wogan's an arl cunt but it was shooting fish in a barrel.

come on Wommie that one surely rates the label misogynist , doesn't it? Good for the gander....good for the goose? Or do males get a pass on language here

Sorry slad. I'm from the uk and this particular word of offense if gender neutral in its application there. It also isn't as egregious a word of offense.

I willedit

[seemslikeadream]

Wogan's an arl cunt but it was shooting fish in a barrel.

come on Wommie that one surely rates the label misogynist , doesn't it? Good for the gander....good for the goose? Or do males get a pass on language here

Sorry slad. I'm from the uk and this particular word of offense if gender neutral in its application there. It also isn't as egregious a word of offense.

I willedit

thanks now if I could be forgiven for not knowing about the word Spoiler:Paki ...I'm in the U.S.

[brainpanhandler]

I used to like David Icke, Brainpanhandler.

I changed my mind.

He's an interesting subject almost regardless of your take on his overall useful/useless/ness, right/wrong/ness. My memory is a bit fuzzy but I believe that my first foray into Ickeland came via his conversations with Credo Mutwa:



The only reason to become incensed about another's negative take on him is if you have cathected his viewpoint and persona to the point of idolizing him. Which is never a good thing, imo. Deconstruct your idols.

16. Remember that to change thy opinion and to follow him who corrects thy error is as consistent with freedom as it is to persist in thy error. For it is thy own, the activity which is exerted according to thy own movement and judgment, and indeed according to thy own understanding too.

[Searcher08]

ALL of you. Pretend to be the other. Pretend to be your seeming antagonist. Take the other's position and see if you can defend it, even if only privately. Just try it. It won't kill you. I promise. And your conscience will feel cleaner when you resettle into whatever position you deem most probably true.

I so rarely see anyone, even here, actually change their minds about anything.

When I try and step into your shoes, I experience you feeling sadness/ annoytance that we have so much fighting here - is that accurate?
When I try to be a ' fly on the wall', I see you as sometimes being very frustrated with how people treat each other here - Is that accurate?


I would build on what you said bph by adding as well as taking the other's position, stepping out of oneself reduces conflict (double dissociation almost eliminates it )-

if bph and AD are arguing, and bph shifts his perspective to looking at himself observing (bph and AD) - like he is watching a person in the cinema looking at a screen showing the argument, the effect is to greatly reduce the conflict...
it is also great for treating ptsd...


People tend to change position through information and perception, not exposing logic errors.
For example Randioids decide to 'debunk 9/11' .
David Ray Griffin writes a book called 'debunking 9/11 debunking'
Randioids start the 'debunking 'debunking 9/11 debunking' project.
Meanwhile, Indira Singh languishes in the 'Where are they now?' file
I would bet the number of people who changed their initial starting point is very small.

In my years here, AD's TIDS thread contained personally the most 'map' changing (and some of it VERY uncomfortable material) - yet I just explored it myself - there was no challenge or 'logic' or debate; It also seemed to have a lot of reporting of people's actual experiences.

[seemslikeadream]

I used to like David Icke, Brainpanhandler.

I changed my mind.

He's an interesting subject almost regardless of your take on his overall useful/useless/ness, right/wrong/ness. My memory is a bit fuzzy but I believe that my first foray into Ickeland came via his conversations with Credo Mutwa:

The only reason to become incensed about another's negative take on him is if you have cathected his viewpoint and persona to the point of idolizing him. Which is never a good thing, imo. Deconstruct your idols.

no the reason I am so 'incensed' about others take on him is that his holocaust denial is but miniscule compared to may may others and that should not be an excuse for not being able to talk about him here without being labeled an anti-semite He was/is no idol of mine only a stepping stone (years ago) to the opening of my mind on to bigger things. You really need to re read peoples posts here cause I didn't see any idolizing

[Saurian Tail]

I so rarely see anyone, even here, actually change their minds about anything.

People tend to change position through information and perception, not exposing logic errors.

I think it is helpful to keep in mind that the people around here who are the most open to changing their minds are either lurking or rarely post.

[brainpanhandler]

There are only so many hours in a lifetime so forgive my ignorance, but where does Icke deny the holocaust?

[brainpanhandler]

I so rarely see anyone, even here, actually change their minds about anything.

People tend to change position through information and perception, not exposing logic errors.

I think it is helpful to keep in mind that the people around here who are the most open to changing their minds are either lurking or rarely post.

That seems plausible but obviously has to remain by definition in the realm of speculation. Unless people want to uncloak and describe how their minds have been changed.

[brainpanhandler]

When I try and step into your shoes, I experience you feeling sadness/ annoytance that we have so much fighting here - is that accurate?
When I try to be a ' fly on the wall', I see you as sometimes being very frustrated with how people treat each other here - Is that accurate?

I'm out of time at the moment, but I'll try to get back to this later.

[seemslikeadream]

There are only so many hours in a lifetime so forgive my ignorance, but where does Icke deny the holocaust?

for the life of me I do not know I was hoping the one that made that acusation would provide a link....I'm not wasting my time substantiating it


but you know just using the word does the trick

[Wombaticus Rex]

Via: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread91809/pg1

Q: ATS: Kinglizard asks, Do you still believe that the Holocaust in WWII was fictional? If so why? What purpose does it serve?

A: David Icke: The Holocaust wasn't fictional in the sense that vast numbers of Jewish people, Communists, gypsies and so on suffered abominations at the hands of the Illuminati-created Nazis. But what I also find grotesque is the exploitation of that suffering by those who were not there and seek only to advance their own agenda and line their own pockets. Norman Finklestein, whose parents were in the concentration camps, has written a magnificent expose of these people in his book, The Holocaust Industry. Highly recommended. Those who wish to suppress the exposure of the global conspiracy also use the treatment of the Jews in Germany to dub researchers racist because they reveal the manipulations of people like the Illuminati Rothschilds. It is not about protecting Jewish people from discrimination, but using Jewish people to protect their own self interests.