David Icke Superthread

[Simulist]

Seriously? Are you really that confused?

Icke's cartoonishness trivializes every subject he touches — and some of those subjects he touches upon have involved real abuses and real survivors of those abuses, including real rape and real torture.

Icke's general whackiness makes those topics appear less real by the very fact that when he's touching upon them, HE is the one doing it.

What the hell is it about this that you still don't get?

Seriously? NO I am not confused at all by what is going on here

Neither am I: despite everything that's already been said here about how David Icke serves to trivialize real crimes — and serves to help make survivors of those real crimes into objects of ridicule! — you defend him as being somehow worthwhile.

Nice.

The ones elevating Icke power in the world to the status of war criminals torturers and holocaust deniers...that's the trivializing here..Nice

I am not defending Icke...I am and always have been for the right of his name to be mention here that is all. Don't put fuckin motives on me YOU know nothing of my motives

I didn't say a single thing about your motives. In fact, I don't give a hoot what your motives are.

I said what you are DOING.

[Project Willow]

The ones elevating Icke power in the world to the status of war criminals torturers and holocaust deniers...that's the trivializing here..Nice

Who has done that?

I thought it was clear we were discussing how Icke aids war criminals and torturers, not that he is one.

[Saurian Tail]

I think the most dangerous parts of our shadows are judgmental, selfish, defensive, paranoid, punishing, ignorant and merciless...

I'm all too familiar with these characteristics and it's been a rather shocking discovery.

All the best to you Norton.

-ST

[slimmouse]

I think the most dangerous parts of our shadows are judgmental, selfish, defensive, paranoid, punishing, ignorant and merciless...

Indeed. And dealing with this doesnt get any easier even when fully conscious of it.

[American Dream]

Where I stand around Icke is probably best described by Wombat's post up thread - it really resonated with several people.

Including the part about David Icke being a "poison pill"?

You should read Wombats piece again. His usage of that expression is totally different than yours and it is his usage I agree with.

We disagree fundamentally with your approach of 'problematic ideas, individuals' etc etc. Perhaps it is just the old 'free-speech' line is different for each of us...

For example, IMHO the Nizkor Project site rocks. Why? because it is fact based, clear, answers boatloads of questions and encourages it. Why does the far right loathe it? because that is what it does - I went deep into the site a few years ago and found lots of invitations to debate far right groups which went unanswered - it was actually a superb uncovering of the 'far right we are only asking questions' approach.

I was hoping you would participate more in this thread. There seem to be as many myths around Icke are there are around the Rothschilds. And that is saying something. It is so much easier to hold onto familiar tropes that take them apart and see whats there, perhaps?

Maybe we could map the IckeLand ecosystem...

Yeah- here's the larger quote from Wombaticus: Overall? There's not much wrong with Icke, really, but there's a great deal wrong with our culture. So when I talk about Icke being a "poison pill," please understand that I'm not talking about the man himself, I'm talking about the world we live in."
My position: Poison pill is poison pill. But yes- most of David Icke's work is derivative.

As to "myths around Icke"- eye of the beholder.

Here's a few contentions I hold around the problematic Mr. Icke:

David Icke is not the Messiah.

He has problems with anti-Semitic narratives.

He mixes true facts with lots of unfounded assertions.

His mind control narratives have big problems.


There's much, much more but these are a few of his problems...

AFAIK he doesn't consider himself anything other than a regular Joe, never mind being a Messiah.
He did use language about EVERYONE being a Son Of God - ie having the divine essence in them.

You say: He has problems with anti-Semitic narratives
I think he has some problems with narratives full stop.

For example, the story about WW3 linking to Albert Pike, the great Freemason. I thought that was an interesting story, but the research I did could not trace any link like that. It then turns out that there is not. So this is one of the things he says that is worth examining. However framing it as "anti-Semitic narratives" IMHO is missing the non-Semitic narratives, if that makes sense.

TBC

Re my assertion that: "David Icke is not the Messiah."

See:





Also, as stated previously:


He has problems with anti-Semitic narratives.

He mixes true facts with lots of unfounded assertions.

His mind control narratives have big problems.


Isn't that plenty?

And yet, there's much, much more...

[slimmouse]

Re my assertion that: "David Icke is not the Messiah."

........is yet a further example of your disingenuity......As Wogan himself explains in the first 30 seconds of this second interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufGVwaVp ... re=related

As for me, I believe I, along with 7 billion others are sons of the godhead too.

[Stephen Morgan]

[IntegratingInsanity]

*deleted

[undead]

Wow, I looked at the first page, and then skipped to the last page - the same pointless argument. To give Icke any attention at this point means people have too much time on their hands. I will only say that all David Icke discussions should be changed to Credo Mutwa discussions, because he is a much more interesting character who has a lot more to offer than Icke.

[Simulist]

There is no argument.

He is a commercial conspiratainment product for patsies, and for trivial-minded people who are into the lulz. It's hard to believe anyone buys into it.

Should we argue about spam?

When you first mentioned it the other day, I hadn't realized just what an apt comparison that actually was — because it's starting to seem like almost every thread nowadays has a little Spam Icke in it!

It's getting a little like posting inside a Monty Python sketch nowadays:

Mrs Bun: Have you got anything without Spam?

Waitress: Well, Spam, egg, sausage, and Spam — that's not got much Spam in it!

Hmm...

[seemslikeadream]

There are only so many hours in a lifetime so forgive my ignorance, but where does Icke deny the holocaust?

for the life of me I do not know I was hoping the one that made that acusation would provide a link....I'm not wasting my time substantiating it


but you know just using the word does the trick

What specific accusation?

Citation please.

Wow well now that's settled....all this fussin' and fightin' is for naught? No one ever accused David Icke of being a holocaust denier or an anti-semite? WTF! Here I thought that's why we shouldn't mention his name here...Where the hell did I get that idea? Praise the lord and pass the peas..... controversy over...I guess I was mistaken..too bad it took so long to figure out...could have saved a whole lot of hard feelings and a WHOLE lot of trouble for the mods...Thanks AD, and I am sorry for any unintentional hard feelings

Can you please provide the citation?

Till then nobody here but you knows what exactly you are referring to- myself included...

ok here it is:

In a thread titled

Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up -- Please Give Us an Acceptable Way of Insulting You

AD treates us all for the FIRST time to David Icke on the first page...of a thread titled Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up -- Please Give Us an Acceptable Way of Insulting You




What the fuck does David Icke have to do with the Israel Lobby and the insulting of...??

Did AD post the picture for the reason that Simulist gives??


Did AD post this as Simulist posts which has nothing to do with the anti-semitism at least he does not include that reason but if not why is he posting this in....again a thread titled

Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up -- Please Give Us an Acceptable Way of Insulting You

Simulist wrote:
Seriously? Are you really that confused?

Icke's cartoonishness trivializes every subject he touches — and some of those subjects he touches upon have involved real abuses and real survivors of those abuses, including real rape and real torture.

Icke's general whackiness makes those topics appear less real by the very fact that when he's touching upon them, HE is the one doing it.

What the hell is it about this that you still don't get?

Or was reason being just a lead up to this where AD boldly highlights the following

Brilliant!


Then again, there's this:


Quote:
This radical transformation of society, from feudalism to capitalism terrified and alarmed many people in Europe and the USA. These societies existed during a time when the theories of race were commonly accepted and discussed as a science -- to justify both slavery and the imperial exploitation of Africa and other colonies. As well as racist prejudice one other common bigotry was anti-Semitism, the hatred of Jews. As capitalism developed, producing transnational, global insitutions many racists alarmed at this transformation identified the enemy behind it -- that of the Jew. As part of anti-semitic prejudice throughout Europe, Jews were forced into jobs in the financial sector that Christians deemed immoral -- like banking. So when the industrial revolution was financed by and empowered banks with Jewish owners anti-semites saw a conspiracy by the Jewish race to enslave the white Christian race.


So much wrong in just one picture

The most notorious subject of these anti-Semitic conspiracy theories was the Rothschild Family. The Rothschilds were an extremely wealthy and powerful banking family during the 1800’s, who exercised massive influence over the developing capitalist economies of Europe and North America. This combination of power and Judaism made them the frequent target of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. As a major banking institution there’s no question the Rothschild’s would have been involved in underhand and conspiratorial plans to influence governments and secure their markets -- but the accusations labelled at the Rothschilds go way beyond criticism of bankers influence, and into conspiracy nonsense about world Jewish plots to enslave the world. For example, the Rothschilds were accused of both funding American Capitalism and Russian Bolsheviks, a ridiculous allegation that had it’s base in anti-socialist racist sentiment. Many anti-Semites were disturbed at the challenge global capitalism posed to nation states sovereignty and could not understand the power of the economic system they faced, so instead chose to blame it on conspiratorial groups.

These ideas -- anti-banking sentiment of small business Democrats, and anti-semitic opposition to the Rothschilds -- unfortunately haven’t remained in the past. They continue to be advocated by people like Zeitgeist, Alex Jones and David Icke. This piece by Norfolk Community Action Group criticizes the influence these forces have in the occupy movement,

“The populist narrative is also an integral part of the political views of conspiracy theorists, far right activists, and anti-Semites. For anti-Semites, the elites are the Jews; for David Icke, the elites are the reptilians; for nationalists, they are members of minority ethnic, racial, or religious groups; for others, they are the “globalists,” the Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission, the Freemasons, the Federal Reserve, etc. All of these various conspiracy theories also tend to blend in and borrow from each other. Additionally, the focus on “Wall Street” also has specific appeal to those who see the elite as represented by finance capital, a particular obsession of the anti-Semites, Larouchites, followers of David Icke, etc. “The Rothschilds” are the favorite stand-in codeword of choice to refer to the supposed Jewish control of the banking system.”

The “Rothschild Zionists” feature in both Alex Jones and Icke’s material -- which blame a 200 year old banking institution for conspiratorial involvement in global capitalism. The reality is that the Rothschilds influence declined by the early 1900s -- blaming them for the financial crisis is like blaming the British East India company for the ongoing exploitation of Asia. The Rothschilds have been surpassed and overtaken by new financial institutions.

So why do they continue to be prevalent in conspiracy theories related to banking? Because in the USA, when people are discontent and angry at the banks instead of looking to socialism -- which has historically been weak in the USA -- they go back to the most prominent anti-banking ideas and figures, which unfortunately are anti-semitic. Likewise many bankers are identified as “Rothschild Zionists” by Icke who clearly have no familial connection to the Rothschild family at all -- like David Miliband and DSK. But it’s ok, as Icke explains:

“I should also stress that when I say ‘Rothschild’, I don’t only mean those called ‘Rothschild’, nor even all of the people who are known by that name. There are many in the Rothschild family and its offshoots who have no idea what the hierarchy is doing and there are many ‘Rothschilds’ who don’t carry the name itself.

When I say ‘Rothschild’, I am referring to the Rothschild bloodline because, as I have detailed in my books, they have long had breeding programmes that produce offspring that are brought up under other names.”




This is effectively an excuse to link all Jewish people in areas of power together, based on racist ideas of “bloodlines”, and using the code “Zionist” instead of what people really mean, which is Jew. Whatever crimes have been committed in the Zionist enterprise of the State of Israel against the Palestinians, the idea a country of five million Israelis control international finance is absurd and only makes sense if you believe in anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.
http://ssy.org.uk/2011/11/class-politic ... -movement/

Then AD cotinues on page 2 to posts this??

American Dream
Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Op-Ed: David Icke's Jewish history lesson is not Kosher

By Alexander Baron
Jan 28, 2012

Ryde - The latest issue of David Icke's newsletter is devoted in large measure to the evils of “Rothschild Zionism”. Perhaps he should have read some history before he wrote it.

Under what heading is an article about David Icke to be listed? Entertainment? That has some merit. Politics? That does too. In the end, Education seems the best bet, because that is what David needs most. For a brief introduction to the former goalkeeper, sports journalist and Green Party activist, click here. If you have perused his website, you might have visited the book order page where you will have found:

“If you have any questions, comments or suggestions, please feel free” - anyone got any suggestions? The expected response is two words, the second being “off”.

And

“If you are a trade/wholesale customer please contact Linda Atherton at our office address above for our trade/wholesale rates.”

This begs the question, if Icke's revealed truths are so outrageous, why does he have any distribution at all, for surely the all powerful octopus of Rothschild Zionism would find some way to scupper it, even in the age of the Internet.

If the truth be told, like his American counterpart Alex Jones, Icke is making a comfortable living out of peddling his conspiracy literature; how else could he afford to hire Wembley Arena on October 27 this year?

Tickets are £55.00 with a £7.15 Service Charge. Heck, you can see Michael Chapman at the Lexington tomorrow night for £6 on the door. Now, to Rothschild Zionism.

According to David Icke: “The first Rothschild Zionist Congress was in Basel, Switzerland, in August 1897, but not many realise that it was originally due to take place in Munich, Germany.”

Really, David? Tell us more.

“It had to be relocated because of opposition from Jewish people in Germany who did not want to be shipped off to Palestine, as per Rothschild Zionist agenda.”

Actually, it was the rabbis who chased it out of the country denouncing Zionism as “fanaticism, contrary to the Jewish scriptures, and affirmed their undivided loyalty to Germany.” And a citation: Jews Against Zionism: The American Council for Judaism, 1942-1948, by Thomas A. Kolsky, published by Temple University Press, Philadelphia, (1990), page 17.

The man behind what might be called secular Zionism was Theodor Herzl, and both his inspiration and methodology have been well documented. On July 18, 1895, he met with Baron Edmond Rothschild in Paris, who rejected his proposals. Herzl died in 1904, and his vision may have died with him. Certainly, the great Jewish financiers - and there were many at that time - had no interest in Zionism. It was only with the Balfour Declaration of 1917 that the movement began to make headway, but it took the rise of Nazism and the cooperation of the Zionist movement with the Nazi High Command to spur the Zionist colonisation of Palestine, and eventually the Nakba. And what were the Rothschilds doing all this time? Not a lot, not in Palestine, anyway, although according to Mr Icke, they were doing quite a lot in Germany, in particular bankrolling Hitler.

If that sounds somewhat implausible, it is because Mr Icke subscribes to the Grand Conspiracy theory of history; elsewhere he writes: “the German region of Bavaria comes up again and again - the home of the infamous Bavarian Illuminati of Adam Weishaupt (who today I would be call a Rothschild Zionist).”

So, the Bavarian Illuminati was based in Bavaria? If it had been based in Lancashire, there would indeed have been a mystery, but in 1776 when the Order of the Illuminati was founded, there was no such entity as Zionism, and Adam Weishaupt was an academic who had a Jesuit education, so that kind of rules out Jews completely, doesn't it? Only in the rational universe!

Mr Icke also ropes in Larry Silverstein who is identified as yet another Rothschild Zionist rather than a New York landlord. Did someone mention New York? 9/11? Yes, you guessed right, but before you read what Mr Icke has to offer on the collapse of the Twin Towers and Building 7, read this.

There is an alternative history of the Rothschild's currently being offered for sale: The World's Banker: a History of the House of Rothschild by Niall Ferguson will set you back £30. Put out by a mainstream publisher, it has 1,040 pages of text and 200 pages of references. Yes David, footnotes, that means the author actually did some research before he put pen to paper. You might like to try it sometime.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/318602

So David Icke is an anti-semite but apparently not a holocaust denier

but we all know who rang that bell

[seemslikeadream]

There is no argument.

He is a commercial conspiratainment product for patsies, and for trivial-minded people who are into the lulz. It's hard to believe anyone buys into it.

Should we argue about spam?

When you first mentioned it the other day, I hadn't realized just what an apt comparison that actually was — because it's starting to seem like almost every thread nowadays has a little Spam Icke in it!

It's getting a little like posting inside a Monty Python sketch nowadays:

Mrs Bun: Have you got anything without Spam?

Waitress: Well, Spam, egg, sausage, and Spam — that's not got much Spam in it!

Hmm...

This whole thing started with AD.....he was the first to mention David Icke name here....in I don't know how long or if ever in the last few years ...I doubt David Icke would have EVER been talked about at all in the last few days if it were not for AD bringing him up....so you can thank AD for opening up this can of worms...it's all on him for your Icke spam.....If he brings up Icke's name he's gonna have to live with the responses....the storm he opened the door and let in


actually I just did a little search and low and behold it seems AD has more of an obsession with Icke than anyone else here in the past 12 months....

I am not obsessed with Icke...I don't even want to spend another minute on him so I will not and will not post one more word on this subject..

[American Dream]

There are only so many hours in a lifetime so forgive my ignorance, but where does Icke deny the holocaust?

for the life of me I do not know I was hoping the one that made that acusation would provide a link....I'm not wasting my time substantiating it


but you know just using the word does the trick

What specific accusation?

Citation please.

Wow well now that's settled....all this fussin' and fightin' is for naught? No one ever accused David Icke of being a holocaust denier or an anti-semite? WTF! Here I thought that's why we shouldn't mention his name here...Where the hell did I get that idea? Praise the lord and pass the peas..... controversy over...I guess I was mistaken..too bad it took so long to figure out...could have saved a whole lot of hard feelings and a WHOLE lot of trouble for the mods...Thanks AD, and I am sorry for any unintentional hard feelings

Can you please provide the citation?

Till then nobody here but you knows what exactly you are referring to- myself included...

ok here it is:

In a thread titled

Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up -- Please Give Us an Acceptable Way of Insulting You

AD treates us all for the FIRST time to David Icke on the first page...of a thread titled Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up -- Please Give Us an Acceptable Way of Insulting You




What the fuck does David Icke have to do with the Israel Lobby and the insulting of...??

Did AD post the picture for the reason that Simulist gives??


Did AD post this as Simulist posts which has nothing to do with the anti-semitism at least he does not include that reason but if not why is he posting this in....again a thread titled

Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up -- Please Give Us an Acceptable Way of Insulting You

Simulist wrote:
Seriously? Are you really that confused?

Icke's cartoonishness trivializes every subject he touches — and some of those subjects he touches upon have involved real abuses and real survivors of those abuses, including real rape and real torture.

Icke's general whackiness makes those topics appear less real by the very fact that when he's touching upon them, HE is the one doing it.

What the hell is it about this that you still don't get?

Or was reason being just a lead up to this where AD boldly highlights the following

Brilliant!


Then again, there's this:


Quote:
This radical transformation of society, from feudalism to capitalism terrified and alarmed many people in Europe and the USA. These societies existed during a time when the theories of race were commonly accepted and discussed as a science -- to justify both slavery and the imperial exploitation of Africa and other colonies. As well as racist prejudice one other common bigotry was anti-Semitism, the hatred of Jews. As capitalism developed, producing transnational, global insitutions many racists alarmed at this transformation identified the enemy behind it -- that of the Jew. As part of anti-semitic prejudice throughout Europe, Jews were forced into jobs in the financial sector that Christians deemed immoral -- like banking. So when the industrial revolution was financed by and empowered banks with Jewish owners anti-semites saw a conspiracy by the Jewish race to enslave the white Christian race.


So much wrong in just one picture

The most notorious subject of these anti-Semitic conspiracy theories was the Rothschild Family. The Rothschilds were an extremely wealthy and powerful banking family during the 1800’s, who exercised massive influence over the developing capitalist economies of Europe and North America. This combination of power and Judaism made them the frequent target of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. As a major banking institution there’s no question the Rothschild’s would have been involved in underhand and conspiratorial plans to influence governments and secure their markets -- but the accusations labelled at the Rothschilds go way beyond criticism of bankers influence, and into conspiracy nonsense about world Jewish plots to enslave the world. For example, the Rothschilds were accused of both funding American Capitalism and Russian Bolsheviks, a ridiculous allegation that had it’s base in anti-socialist racist sentiment. Many anti-Semites were disturbed at the challenge global capitalism posed to nation states sovereignty and could not understand the power of the economic system they faced, so instead chose to blame it on conspiratorial groups.

These ideas -- anti-banking sentiment of small business Democrats, and anti-semitic opposition to the Rothschilds -- unfortunately haven’t remained in the past. They continue to be advocated by people like Zeitgeist, Alex Jones and David Icke. This piece by Norfolk Community Action Group criticizes the influence these forces have in the occupy movement,

“The populist narrative is also an integral part of the political views of conspiracy theorists, far right activists, and anti-Semites. For anti-Semites, the elites are the Jews; for David Icke, the elites are the reptilians; for nationalists, they are members of minority ethnic, racial, or religious groups; for others, they are the “globalists,” the Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission, the Freemasons, the Federal Reserve, etc. All of these various conspiracy theories also tend to blend in and borrow from each other. Additionally, the focus on “Wall Street” also has specific appeal to those who see the elite as represented by finance capital, a particular obsession of the anti-Semites, Larouchites, followers of David Icke, etc. “The Rothschilds” are the favorite stand-in codeword of choice to refer to the supposed Jewish control of the banking system.”

The “Rothschild Zionists” feature in both Alex Jones and Icke’s material -- which blame a 200 year old banking institution for conspiratorial involvement in global capitalism. The reality is that the Rothschilds influence declined by the early 1900s -- blaming them for the financial crisis is like blaming the British East India company for the ongoing exploitation of Asia. The Rothschilds have been surpassed and overtaken by new financial institutions.

So why do they continue to be prevalent in conspiracy theories related to banking? Because in the USA, when people are discontent and angry at the banks instead of looking to socialism -- which has historically been weak in the USA -- they go back to the most prominent anti-banking ideas and figures, which unfortunately are anti-semitic. Likewise many bankers are identified as “Rothschild Zionists” by Icke who clearly have no familial connection to the Rothschild family at all -- like David Miliband and DSK. But it’s ok, as Icke explains:

“I should also stress that when I say ‘Rothschild’, I don’t only mean those called ‘Rothschild’, nor even all of the people who are known by that name. There are many in the Rothschild family and its offshoots who have no idea what the hierarchy is doing and there are many ‘Rothschilds’ who don’t carry the name itself.

When I say ‘Rothschild’, I am referring to the Rothschild bloodline because, as I have detailed in my books, they have long had breeding programmes that produce offspring that are brought up under other names.”




This is effectively an excuse to link all Jewish people in areas of power together, based on racist ideas of “bloodlines”, and using the code “Zionist” instead of what people really mean, which is Jew. Whatever crimes have been committed in the Zionist enterprise of the State of Israel against the Palestinians, the idea a country of five million Israelis control international finance is absurd and only makes sense if you believe in anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.
http://ssy.org.uk/2011/11/class-politic ... -movement/

Then AD cotinues on page 2 to posts this??

American Dream
Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Op-Ed: David Icke's Jewish history lesson is not Kosher

By Alexander Baron
Jan 28, 2012

Ryde - The latest issue of David Icke's newsletter is devoted in large measure to the evils of “Rothschild Zionism”. Perhaps he should have read some history before he wrote it.

Under what heading is an article about David Icke to be listed? Entertainment? That has some merit. Politics? That does too. In the end, Education seems the best bet, because that is what David needs most. For a brief introduction to the former goalkeeper, sports journalist and Green Party activist, click here. If you have perused his website, you might have visited the book order page where you will have found:

“If you have any questions, comments or suggestions, please feel free” - anyone got any suggestions? The expected response is two words, the second being “off”.

And

“If you are a trade/wholesale customer please contact Linda Atherton at our office address above for our trade/wholesale rates.”

This begs the question, if Icke's revealed truths are so outrageous, why does he have any distribution at all, for surely the all powerful octopus of Rothschild Zionism would find some way to scupper it, even in the age of the Internet.

If the truth be told, like his American counterpart Alex Jones, Icke is making a comfortable living out of peddling his conspiracy literature; how else could he afford to hire Wembley Arena on October 27 this year?

Tickets are £55.00 with a £7.15 Service Charge. Heck, you can see Michael Chapman at the Lexington tomorrow night for £6 on the door. Now, to Rothschild Zionism.

According to David Icke: “The first Rothschild Zionist Congress was in Basel, Switzerland, in August 1897, but not many realise that it was originally due to take place in Munich, Germany.”

Really, David? Tell us more.

“It had to be relocated because of opposition from Jewish people in Germany who did not want to be shipped off to Palestine, as per Rothschild Zionist agenda.”

Actually, it was the rabbis who chased it out of the country denouncing Zionism as “fanaticism, contrary to the Jewish scriptures, and affirmed their undivided loyalty to Germany.” And a citation: Jews Against Zionism: The American Council for Judaism, 1942-1948, by Thomas A. Kolsky, published by Temple University Press, Philadelphia, (1990), page 17.

The man behind what might be called secular Zionism was Theodor Herzl, and both his inspiration and methodology have been well documented. On July 18, 1895, he met with Baron Edmond Rothschild in Paris, who rejected his proposals. Herzl died in 1904, and his vision may have died with him. Certainly, the great Jewish financiers - and there were many at that time - had no interest in Zionism. It was only with the Balfour Declaration of 1917 that the movement began to make headway, but it took the rise of Nazism and the cooperation of the Zionist movement with the Nazi High Command to spur the Zionist colonisation of Palestine, and eventually the Nakba. And what were the Rothschilds doing all this time? Not a lot, not in Palestine, anyway, although according to Mr Icke, they were doing quite a lot in Germany, in particular bankrolling Hitler.

If that sounds somewhat implausible, it is because Mr Icke subscribes to the Grand Conspiracy theory of history; elsewhere he writes: “the German region of Bavaria comes up again and again - the home of the infamous Bavarian Illuminati of Adam Weishaupt (who today I would be call a Rothschild Zionist).”

So, the Bavarian Illuminati was based in Bavaria? If it had been based in Lancashire, there would indeed have been a mystery, but in 1776 when the Order of the Illuminati was founded, there was no such entity as Zionism, and Adam Weishaupt was an academic who had a Jesuit education, so that kind of rules out Jews completely, doesn't it? Only in the rational universe!

Mr Icke also ropes in Larry Silverstein who is identified as yet another Rothschild Zionist rather than a New York landlord. Did someone mention New York? 9/11? Yes, you guessed right, but before you read what Mr Icke has to offer on the collapse of the Twin Towers and Building 7, read this.

There is an alternative history of the Rothschild's currently being offered for sale: The World's Banker: a History of the House of Rothschild by Niall Ferguson will set you back £30. Put out by a mainstream publisher, it has 1,040 pages of text and 200 pages of references. Yes David, footnotes, that means the author actually did some research before he put pen to paper. You might like to try it sometime.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/318602

So David Icke is an anti-semite but apparently not a holocaust denier

but we all know who rang that bell

So, slad, are you going to retract your unfounded accusations regarding holocaust denial- or at the very least change your act from here on out?

I did post the David Icke lizard poster on page 1 of that thread- but in response to slim spewing out nonsense about the problem in Israel being the fault of Rothschild Zionism- and let's face it, slim as been David Icke's biggest booster here for years . I urge others who are interested to check the thread for themselves- I posted material refuting the Icke version of reality in response to comments supporting it. This is destructive crap of no help to anyone but is very, very different than the sort of holocaust denial you have misleadingly raised as an issue with me.

I thought Wombat set you straight about all this a long while ago- why did you persist?

[seemslikeadream]

^^^^^

So, slad, are you going to retract your unfounded accusations regarding holocaust denial- or at the very least change your act from here on out?

nope


Here's you're fuckin' citation

it's all yours AD....I am out of here and will not answer any more questions from you ever... you are on my ignore and will stay there for the rest of my days at RI... I have wasted way too much of my time with you..so...so long...have a nice day

and don't pretend you don't have a holocaust denial issue...you know the one and only holocaust denial....not any other ethnic holocaust denial

Info on David Icke, as collected by Alex Constantine in 2009:

http://aconstantineblacklist.blogspot.c ... -nazi.html

" ... Icke enthusiastically embraced the classic Nazi conspiracy theory [in Robots' Rebellion], alleging that the world is controlled by a secret cadre of "The Elite." He openly endorsed The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the Tsarist anti-Semitic forgery that informed Hitler's notion of a global Jewish conspiracy. ... "
http://www.publiceye.org/Icke/IckeBackgrounder.htm

Re: "...and the truth shall set you free." - "The book repeated Icke's previous claims that the Protocols were true, and went on to state: 'I strongly believe that a small Jewish clique which has contempt for the mass of Jewish people worked with non-Jews to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and the Second World War.... They then dominated the Versailles Peace Conference and created the circumstances which made the Second World War inevitable. They financed Hitler to power in 1933 and made the funds available for his rearmament.'"
http://www.publiceye.org/Icke/IckeBackgrounder.htm

Wikipedia: "Icke has cited white supremacist, neo-Nazi and other far-right publications in his books. British journalist Simon Jones notes that the bibliography of … And the Truth Shall Set You Free lists The Spotlight, formerly published by the now-defunct Liberty Lobby, and which Icke calls "excellent," and On Target, published by the Australian League of Rights, which has organised speaking tours for Holocaust denier David Irving. Jones writes: "It's tempting to dismiss David Icke as a confused and ignorant man, manipulated by extremists in order to present their philosophy in a socially acceptable format. But Icke clearly understands the implications of his words."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke

GREENS TO PROTEST DAVID ICKE
AT HART HOUSE THEATRE, OCT 6
http://list.flora.org/pipermail/action- ... 00636.html

"September 30, 1999. The Green Party of Ontario plans to protest
the October 6, 1999 speech of anti-semite, David Icke, if Hart
House Theatre does not cancel the booking. According to Frank de Jong, Green Party of Ontario leader, 'Offering a platform to new age conspiracy theorist and anti-semite David Icke is bad judgement on the part of the U of T.' David Icke was removed from the British Green Party for his anti-Semitic writings. ... "


***

http://aconstantineblacklist.blogspot.c ... t-two.html

David Icke is a Neo-Nazi (Part Two): Holocaust Denial


David Ickeand the Far-Right

Stephen Roth Institute for the Study of Anti-Semitism and Racism: " ... Exposure, a glossy magazine sold by subscription and at newsstands, was influenced by the worldview of UK eccentric David Icke and publicized the material of several far right Australian groups. In February, editor David Summers sold the magazine, which is now called Hard Evidence. Judging by its promotion during the year of The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, videos of speeches by League of Rights stalwart Jeremy Lee, a half-page advertisement for Nexus magazine (see below), and aggressive advertising for past issues of Exposure, the magazine’s content remains little changed. ... "

http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2 ... tralia.htm

Icke's Audience

" ... The demographic breakdown of his audience is, in and of itself, an interesting phenomenon.Icke appeals equally to bohemian hipsters and right-wing reactionary fanatics. As regards the latter, in England the British Nazi Group Combat 18 supports his writings, and in America the ultra right-wing conservative group Christian Patriots often attends his lectures (Taylor; Crumey). But they are just as likely to be sitting next to a 60-something UFO buff, a Nuwaubian, a Posadist, a Raelian, or New Age earth goddess. ... "

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7 ... n28280155/

Holocaust denier Alex Beck, who claims below, after Hitler, that Jewish people control world communism, defends Icke and claims that Jews constitute the "Iluminati." " ... Holocaust investigators are labeled holocaust deniers ... How does a man like Hitler revitalize a worthless economy with money not worth the paper it is printed on into a first rate nation in less than a decade. He got mad loans. But the Jews wouldn't cause the death of other Jews? Your not realizing that nobody in Zion or the Priory died in the holocaust, and all their gold and precious stuff was returned at the end. Usually only circumcised Jews died and the Jewlluminati and Illuminati are rarely ever circumcised. The Jewlluminati cornered the entire European residential/industrial/commercial market. Now anybody that is a Jewlluminati conspiracy theorist is equated with Hitler, even people who are investigating the holocaust. Also the war enabled the communist revolution that was originally under the control of the Jewlluminati. When the Soviet Union got the H-bomb they planted it in critical regions of the Free World and subsequently rebelled, joining the Rebel Alliance. ... "

http://www.freeworldalliance.biz/Jewllu ... story.html
•••••••
"HITLER A JEW?" - © Copyright 1999 by David Icke
••••••
Subject: XPOST:David Icke and Conspiracy theories
To: Multiple recipients of list H-ANTIS

" ... But what worries the Jewish community most is that Icke's veiled anti-Semiticreferences are now attracting the attention of more sinister British forces, in particular Combat 18, the neo-Nazi group which recruits among football's violent hooligan fringe.

"The Jewish Chronicle has reported how Combat 18 has taken to publicizing Icke's current tour in its internal journal, Putsch. Citing Icke's recent lecture in Glastonbury, Putsch claimed that Icke spoke of 'the sheep' and how the Zionist-operated government, sorry 'illuminati', uses them for its own ends. ... "

http://www2.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/orgs/ ... ard.052695
•••••••
More Holocaust Denial

" ... He began to flirt explicitly with Holocaust denial, saying 'why do we play a part in suppressing alternative information to the official line of the Second World War? How is it right that while this fierce suppression goes on, free copies of the Spielberg film, Schindler's List, are given to schools to indoctrinate children with the unchallenged version of events. And why do we, who say we oppose tyranny and demand freedom of speech, allow people to go to prison and be vilified, and magazines to be closed down on the spot, for suggesting another version of history.' He also denounced the Nuremberg Trials as 'a farce' and 'a calculated exercise in revenge and manipulation.' ... "

http://direland.typepad.com/direland/20 ... about.html

" ... This flirtation with revisionism can still be seen today, with Icke’s support for the Canadian Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel. Icke’s support centres around Zundel’s freedom of expression. One would imagine however that a more worthy symbol could be found than a pro-Nazi propagandist who has appeared at a trial in a concentration camp uniform and who has disseminated stickers such as 'Holocaust teaching is Child Abuse'. ... Like David Irving and Holocaust revisionism, Icke has seen a change in how the public perceive him. Much more high–profile than Irving, he has been openly ridiculed by many. Also, like Irving, Icke has entered into the murky world of Holocaust denial. Both self-taught, they have become embroiled in a need for continuing revealment of cover-ups to sell more books, organise tours and finance their cause. ... "

http://www.skeptics.org.uk/article.php? ... d_icke.php


***

http://aconstantineblacklist.blogspot.c ... ee-my.html

" ... The death of Princess Diana? A ritual sacrifice of a moon goddess who had criticized her husband's reptilian royal family (443). ... "

GREENS TO PROTEST DAVID ICKE AT HART HOUSE THEATRE, OCT 6 (fwd)

The Robot's Rebellion is a conspiracy theory which claims a group of aliens and well-connected people, called the 'Illuminati', are manipulating and controlling world events with a view to establishing global domination.

One of Icke's main sources is a notorious document called the `Protocols of the Elders of Zion', which he renames `the Illuminati Protocols'. It states that Jews are trying to take over the world, and was used by the Nazis to justify the genocide of 6 million people. The Waffen SS used to carry copies in their knapsacks.

By using this document Icke denies the word of those historians who have demonstrated, beyond doubt, that the Protocols are a forgery. He also gives credence to those groups who still use the Protocols to justify their anti-Semitism. [end quote]

David Icke did extensive damage to the credibility of the Greens with his anti-Semitic writings and claims to be a son of god. His ongoing attempts to gain credibility for himself from his prior association with our party makes the damage all the more egregious and ongoing.

http://list.digital-copyright.ca/piperm ... 00636.html
•••••••••••••
"WAS HITLER A ROTHSCHILD ~ Articles by David Icke WAS HITLER A ROTHSCHILD? by David Icke Official history is merely a veil to hide the truth of what really happened. ... "
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:hRf ... cd=8&gl=us
•••••••••••••
Evening Standard (London)
Friday, 26 May, 1995,

The Dark Side of David Icke

He may seem like a harmless eccentric, but, says MARK HONIGSBAUM, some of the views put forward by self-styled guru David Icke, currently lecturing round Britain, are dangerously popular with anti-Semites and neo-Nazis.

It has become fashionable, even among adherents of the New Age, to dismiss David Icke as a crank. For a long time now the former Green Party spokesman and self-styled "Son of God" has been collecting fringe beliefs and theories like other people collect new shoes. UFOs, CIA "mind control", world apocalypse - you name it, David Icke has tried it.

But judging by the response to Icke's current lecture tour of Britain, he is no longer quite the figure of fun he used to be.

At a recent meeting in Glastonbury, for instance, more than 100 people paid 5 pounds each to hear his views. During the lecture, David Taylor, a national spokesman for the Green Party, repeatedly heckled Icke about his use of the notorious anti-Semitic forgery, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Meanwhile, the Jewish Chronicle has been pressing Icke's Bath-based publisher, Gateway, to reveal the truth about the manuscript of his latest book, said to contain offensive revisionary passages about the Holocaust.

Now uncanny parallels are emerging between Icke's thoughts - if that
is not too grand a term for his mishmash of conspiracy theories and
New Age - and the writings of senior figures in the armed militia
movement in America. ...

http://www2.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/orgs/ ... ard.052695
•••••••••••••
David Icke, the Reptilian Infiltration, and the Limits of Science Fiction
By James Trimarco
2 April 2007

... The author goes on to postulate a race of reptilians that has controlled human society from its very beginning. These beings, which Icke calls by the Sumerian[3] word "Anunnaki," infiltrate human society through interbreeding with humans and placing their crossbred offspring into roles of power in human society. The evidence he offers to support this claim, as the late conspiracy expert Bill Keith has pointed out, is hardly of academic quality. The evidence ranges from crackpot etymology (vampires are reptilians because "Dracula" sounds like "Draco" and so on) to references to books that have been repeatedly debunked by scientific experts. Keith characterizes Icke's scholarly methodology as "Believe every goddamn weird thing anybody, anywhere ever said."

The poor quality of Icke's scholarship should be obvious to any reader with a middle-school education, and yet his work resonates with many people. A closer investigation into Icke's vision of Anunnaki infiltration helps to explain the appeal his writings have for his small but loyal group of followers. For Icke, the story of human enslavement by reptilian forces begins about 450,000 years ago. Paraphrasing a translation of a Sumerian tablet by the controversial Orientalist Alexander Sitchin, Icke describes the arrival of the Anunnaki in Africa for the purpose of mining gold. At first, the Anunnaki roped their own working classes into laboring in these mines, but later they developed humanity as a slave race through genetic engineering (6). While the original purpose of humanity's creation involved the exploitation of human labor, Icke argues that the Anunnaki have other, darker uses for human beings. Throughout The Biggest Secret, Icke points to the bloodiest and most difficult chapters in human history and blames each one on Anunnaki scheming. Human sacrifice? Demanded by reptilian overlords (38). British colonialism? Designed to wipe out indigenous knowledge and replace it with propaganda and mind-control (129).

The death of Princess Diana? A ritual sacrifice of a moon goddess who had criticized her husband's reptilian royal family (443). ...

http://www.strangehorizons.com/2007/200 ... ke-a.shtml

anyone with half a brain knows what you are doing AD

[barracuda]

So, slad, are you going to retract your unfounded accusations regarding holocaust denial- or at the very least change your act from here on out?

This kind of demand is sooooo not helpful to a productive discussion, AD.

it's all yours AD....I am out of here and will not answer any more questions from you ever... you are on my ignore and will stay there for the rest of my days at RI... I have wasted way too much of my time with you..so...so long...have a nice day

And slad, you need to step away from this thread and not let AD get your goat.

I don't see anything useful happening here, folks, and I'm locking this.