Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

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Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:29 am

.
Something a little lighter than our usual fare... an enjoyable visit to a mysterious place. I should probably start a blog for this kind of stuff, but nobody would read it, so it's getting put here instead.

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This is Gilmerton, which since the 13th century has been an unremarkable little mining town on the outskirts of Edinburgh, Scotland. The mines are closed now - the last one ceased operating as late as the 1960s - and the town itself has long since been absorbed into the city proper and become a suburb like hundreds of others.

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There's not a lot to do here. You can't blame folk for turning to the bookies' for a bit of excitement. Shamble down to Ladbrokes, put some money on a horse, and win big... or just spend the days losing heavily like everyone else.

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This Ladbrokes is a bit more exciting than most though...

For if you go through to what was once a bathroom fitter's storeroom at the rear of the shop, and descend through a roughly broken hole in the concrete floor, you'll find yourself unexpectedly on a carved and gently curving stone staircase, which leads down to...

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Gilmerton Cove itself.

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This short video gives an idea of the extent of the passageways, and the difficulties their creators would have faced while building them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtVxVEda ... e=youtu.be

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A big "G". Yep. A big G. The graffiti is said by experts to be at least a century old, but to be honest I'm not convinced of that. I think some of it might be much more recent.

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A square and compass symbol, possibly an inverted cross(?), and a large "punch bowl" carved out of the sandstone table.

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There are other symbols, possibly even some writing, but it's hard to make out. Is there a D, a T, and an F in front of the Masonic compass? Not sure.

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The letters B R and two other faint square and compasses...

Someone said there is a carving of a cat on the table as well, suggesting a witches' coven met here, but that's just too painfully traditionalist for me and I couldn't see it anyway.

The origin of these chambers, who carved them, the era in which they were actually carved, and the uses they were put to are all unknown.

Gilmerton locals knew about them long before the "experts" did, though, so whether they added any of the Masonic carving and initials themselves in more recent times (either because they were Masons, or just for a laugh) is hard to tell. They certainly used to hang out down here, seeing the place as little more than an interesting remnant of the town's long mining history - which it well might be, in fact, though that wouldn't explain the "furniture" or the elaborateness of the "rooms".

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The last known use of the Cove was as a storage space. A local bathroom fitting business found it under their shop floor and made use of the extra room. When the archaeologists first descended into the darkness they found the place full of enamel sinks, baths, toilets and pipes.

Something that doesn't come across in either the pictures or the video is the sheer gloom of the place, and the smell of it. Since the pics were taken with a flash it looks as though the tunnels are bright and easily navigable. They're not. Here's one taken without flash, but I had to brighten it up a bit just to make the outlines of the walls visible at all, otherwise it would just be pitch black. Everyone who was down there with me spent the whole time stumbling around and banging their heads off the ceilings, shouting "shit!" and "fuck's sake!" while the tour guide longsufferingly attempted to tell us about the Cove's history.

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The smell is strong too, but not overpowering - it's like the smell of something that's been dead and rotting so long that it's odour has become almost neutral, but can still be recognised instantly as unpleasant. Musty, earthy, fungal - a bit like... well, bit like musty earth with fungus growing in it.

It's very cramped too. The seats have ridiculously inadequate legroom. People were generally a lot shorter back in the day, as you can see from any suit of armour made more than two hundred years ago, so maybe the proportions suited them better at the time than they fit us now. The Bagginses' of Bag End would've felt right at home here.

Needless to say there are innumerable theories as to who built the Cove (it's nowhere near the sea, btw, and certainly doesn't open onto a beach or inlet at any point, so smugglers might have used it as a storage place at some point, but they definitely didn't offload stuff directly from ships to the Cove unless they were prepared to cart it a long way uphill beforehand).

The last person known to haved used the Cove as a dwelling place was a blacksmith called George Patterson, who lived there with his family in the 18th century. Parish records show he was reprimanded for allowing alcohol to be consumed inside the Cove on the Sabbath, which reinforces the theory that it was used mainly as an illegal distillery and drinking den, or "shebeen" as they called them. Patterson claimed to have built the Cove himself, over five years of work, but that's very unlikely. It's much more reasonable to assume he just stumbled across it one day, and since it was under his land he assumed property rights over it (it was situated below the stables he once worked out of).

By the standards of worker's housing in Edinburgh at the time the Cove would've been considered pretty bijou and luxurious - much of the city resembled the infamous Five Points district of New York, and overcrowding among the poor was at hellish levels. At least by living in the Cove Patterson and his family would've been able to avoid sharing the space with multiple other families and legions of intinerant workmen. By living in an underground home Patterson would've also been able to avoid paying the notorious "Window Tax" - from whence the phrase "daylight robbery" originates.

The theories of who inhabited the Cove before and after Patterson range from the semi-reasonable to the outright ridiculous, with the inevitable (and highly unlikely) inclusion of the Templar Knights as one-time residents. It is suggested (sigh) that they hid the Holy Grail here. There's barely anywhere in Scotland that those pricks aren't said to have hid the Holy Grail, though.

Another short vid about all the various theorised inhabitants of the Cove - George Patterson, the Hellfire Club, Masons, Covenanters, Templar Knights (who would've had no reason whatsoever to hide in a hole, since they were never outlawed in Scotland).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV02O90_ ... e=youtu.be

The bit about Rosslyn Chapel is just... :doh:

If it's already a big deal that the passageways stretch a thousand feet through solid stone then don't go making the claim that they stretch another five miles, much of it downhill, then up again, to Rosslyn, as if it was a reasonable hypothesis. FFS. I must admit that rumours of underground passages and chambers are connected to nearly every site the Templars ever visitted or became associated with, though, and it can't all just be smoke without fire. In this case I believe it is though.

Oh, as for the ghost, well... Ghost Finders Scotland (yes, indeed) an award-winning paranormal investigation team
(:shrug: ) did an overnight sit-in at the Cove, and apparently recorded some Electronic Voice Phenomenon. One of the sound files is actually quite decent - a Ghost Finder asks what is behind the rubble blocking the sealed passage, and is 'answered' with the 'words': "Never...mind... Never...mind."

Presumably the ghost (thought to be that of the blacksmith George Patterson) likes Nirvana.

The sound file can be heard here: http://www.ghostfinders.co.uk/gilmerton ... _file2.wav

The other (not very good) EVP files are on this page: http://www.ghostfinders.co.uk/edinburgh ... sults.html
Last edited by AhabsOtherLeg on Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

Postby Nordic » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:10 am

Wow, this is really cool. I saw your pictures in the Lounge thread, and was really hoping you'd post more about it!

Thanks.
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Re: Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:43 am

No probs Nordic. The thing I love most about the place is that it's located in such an average, normal (somewhat shitty) suburb, and under a Ladbrokes, which makes it a bit like finding a mysterious tunnel system of unkown origin under a Starbucks or Walgreens in the US. :lol:

Should add that although I believe the theorised link to Rosslyn Chapel (through the blocked tunnel) is purest bullshit, there is a much closer stately home/castle that is currently owned by a Heinz heiress (not the one that's married to John Kerry so far as I know) and it's slightly more possible that the blocked tunnel could lead there. I can't seem to find anything online about the house/castle itself, though, or even remember the name of it. Hopefully it'll come back to me.
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Re: Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

Postby justdrew » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:05 am

any plans to unblock the tunnel?
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Re: Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:09 am

Sadly, no... apparently a structural engineer told them that the road above would collapse into the tunnels if they removed the current blockage. I'm sure that another structural engineer could easily come up with a way to strengthen and support the tunnel entrance while the rubble was cleared from it, though - maybe by using a temporary, adaptable steel lintel and frame - but from what they told me there is currently no one willing to pay for the work.

That hints to me that the Holy Grail probably isn't in there. :lol: It's a bit like someone saying they might know the whereabouts of the Ark of the Covenant, but they can't go and look for it 'cos they'd miss a day at work.

I think they've probably done a ground-sounding or GPR scan on the blockage and found that the tunnel behind it is only three feet deep, but pretending that it might go all the way to Rosslyn or Craigmillar castle is more exciting for tourists (and more lucrative). If they could get away with it they'd probably claim that Nessie lives in the blocked well. :lol:

It's still an amazing place, I just wish they didn't try to bring the Templars and the Holy Grail into everything here.
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Re: Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

Postby Fresno_Layshaft » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:16 am

That's really cool Ahab. You're lucky to live somewhere with history and mystery. In Toronto any structure older than 40 or 50 years is considered ancient and promptly torn down to make room for loft condos. Its really a hideous city. Though I have heard rumours of underground tunnels, if any RI'er knows more about that, post away.
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Re: Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

Postby norton ash » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:08 am

Thanks, Ahab. Edinburgh betting-shop toilets are stargates.



Reminded me of this one, too:
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Re: Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

Postby Peregrine » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:39 am

AhabsOtherLeg wrote:.
I should probably start a blog for this kind of stuff, but nobody would read it, so it's getting put here instead.


I totally would. The posts in the locale thread you had were pretty cool & I found them fascinating.


The origin of these chambers, who carved them, the era in which they were actually carved, and the uses they were put to are all unknown.


I notice there are quite a few photos above that have some pretty detailed orbs above (nice shot of your feet, Ahab!). I know, I know, lots just say those damn things ar illuminated specs of dust from the flash, but I tend to believe otherwise. I've captured a few orbs in photos & many of them seem to have faint outlines of faces. I keep saying I will post them on here but never do. I should go do so in the "our eye" thread Annie put together.

Something that doesn't come across in either the pictures or the video is the sheer gloom of the place, and the smell of it....The smell is strong too, but not overpowering - it's like the smell of something that's been dead and rotting so long that it's odour has become almost neutral, but can still be recognised instantly as unpleasant.


That can also be anothr good indicator of a haunted spot. Or it's just damp... :)

The Bagginses' of Bag End would've felt right at home here.


I think those guys like sunshine.

Very cool, Ahab, I hope you post more stuff, I really do find it fascinating!
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Re: Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

Postby Stephen Morgan » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:15 pm

norton ash wrote:


http://youtu.be/
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Re: Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

Postby Stephen Morgan » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:40 pm

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Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:24 pm

Thanks for that, Ahab. What a weird thing. (I had never heard of it, by the way.) Somebody must have had a very good reason for going to such an enormous effort in such a tiny nondescript place. And this piece of stone furniture gives me the creeps:

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It looks about the size of an operating table. But what possible function could that "bowl" have? :shock: They can hardly have used it for tossing salad.

Anyway, I'm amazed to hear that that tunnel still hasn't been unblocked. The excuse for not doing so strikes me as flimsy to say the least. (Because tunnel roofs can be supported, traffic can be re-routed, etc. It happens all the time. Where there's a will there's a way.) There's a strange lack of curiosity there. Why aren't archaeologists all over this, demanding permission to excavate? At the very least, it's a neglected tourist attraction.

It might be worth your while getting in touch with the archaeology departments at the unis in Edinburgh and/or Glasgow.

ON EDIT: Sorry, I just got round to watching that two-part youTube video, and I see a couple of archaeologists have in fact been down there already. Still, their "investigation" does look decidedly lackadaisical, so far. They don't say much more than "Gee whiz", and I could have managed that myself.

Can nothing be done with carbon-dating? And I'm sure there are various hi-tech ways of telling how far a tunnel extends, at least approximately, even without excavating it. Sonar and, er, stuff like that.

C'mon, archaeologists! Get the finger out!
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Re: Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

Postby Byrne » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:20 pm

Years ago, me & Mrs Byrne were travelling south on the M42 & my car broke down. I was taken by a recovery vehicle to a garage in West Wycombe where I had 4 hours to kill whilst the car was fixed.

We took a walk through the village & discovered the Hellfire Club Tunnels and Caves there.

Apparently Benjamin Franklin was a visitor/participant in the goings ons there....
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Re: Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

Postby semper occultus » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:27 pm

as a fully paid up member of Claustrophobics Anonymous I'd need a general anaesthetic before being able to get down there - or its equivalent in Tennents Extra but nahhhh .... it's the Templars...got to be really ....I mean look what they were up to under the Temple Mount....must be the remains of the quest for Joseph of Arimethea's lost betting-slip on that winning 5 horse accumulator at the Judea Derby

but no doubt some of the best hauntings involve ..."what lies beneath".....

I've always remembered the story they did on Nationwide years ago on the Treasurers House in York : in the basement of which a detachment of Roman troops was seen marching out of the wall - visible up to their knees at floor level - and disappearing through the opposite one going who knows where...

or this great doco on the London Tube network

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Re: Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Tue May 08, 2012 8:02 pm

norton ash wrote:Thanks, Ahab. Edinburgh betting-shop toilets are stargates.



That video has a totally different meaning when taken out of context. If you don't know why he starts fishing around in the shit-bowl after unleashing a torrent of diaorrhea into it, one would be left with the impression that that's just something we do over here. A tradition passed down through the centuries - hallowed by usage and consecrated by time.

It's not, btw, for North American readers. I for one hardly ever do anything like that.

Fresno_Layshaft wrote:That's really cool Ahab. You're lucky to live somewhere with history and mystery. In Toronto any structure older than 40 or 50 years is considered ancient and promptly torn down to make room for loft condos. Its really a hideous city. Though I have heard rumours of underground tunnels, if any RI'er knows more about that, post away.


Don't know about the Toronto tunnels Fresno, I had a search about but couldn't really find anything. Sounds interesting. Were they an older sewer or subway system, or do they go back a ways further than that? My brother told me that Canada in general is very, very modern and a bit "boxy" - I don't think most of us realise over here just how unusual it is to have centuries old buildings of vastly varying shapes and sizes all over the place. The Church at the back of my house (just a local Church, nothing fancy) is older than the United States of America, and no one even thinks about it. We are lucky, but we don't know it.

Peregrine wrote:I notice there are quite a few photos above that have some pretty detailed orbs above (nice shot of your feet, Ahab!). I know, I know, lots just say those damn things ar illuminated specs of dust from the flash, but I tend to believe otherwise. I've captured a few orbs in photos & many of them seem to have faint outlines of faces. I keep saying I will post them on here but never do. I should go do so in the "our eye" thread Annie put together.


I hope you do. I noticed the orbs myself, but it was pretty dusty and "spore-y" down there, so I'm not sure. There was no real haunted vibe in the place. It's odd - despite how it looks and the story behind it, there was no noticeable atmosphere at all. I was a bit apprehensive before going down there, but as soon as you're in the Cove itself it just feels normal (apart from smacking your head off the ceiling constantly).

Stephen Morgan wrote:Image

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Holy fuck. Any good websites to find out more about the place? I searched and found a few, but want more. Any in-depth stuff on the history, etc? Is that table-top thing original? :shock:

MacCruiskeen wrote:Can nothing be done with carbon-dating? And I'm sure there are various hi-tech ways of telling how far a tunnel extends, at least approximately, even without excavating it. Sonar and, er, stuff like that.

C'mon, archaeologists! Get the finger out!


I'm sure they've done all those kind of tests (I would hope so anyway) and I worry that they might have found something less exciting or immediately "saleable" than they'd hoped, so they're keeping quiet about it to draw in more tourist trade. Like the tunnel might not actually extend very far? If they haven't even done ground-soundings, etc. over a wide area above ground then I just give up. It wouldn't be the first time they'd let an opportunity like this go to waste. Did you know Skara Brae lay unexamined and unsecured for years after it's discovery? Folk from the local manor house used to go down their after parties and take away priceless stone-age artifacts as souvenirs, none of which have been recovered. They didn't even try to protect it from the weather until a whole stone-age house had been knocked down by a storm. A disgrace.

Couldn't the "punch bowl" have just been for boozing? It was the "bed" that gave me a weird feeling more than the "table". Why just one? With seats on either side? Voyeurism? I dunno.

Byrne wrote:Years ago, me & Mrs Byrne were travelling south on the M42 & my car broke down. I was taken by a recovery vehicle to a garage in West Wycombe where I had 4 hours to kill whilst the car was fixed.

We took a walk through the village & discovered the Hellfire Club Tunnels and Caves there.

Apparently Benjamin Franklin was a visitor/participant in the goings ons there....


That's awesome! Another location for me to visit. That place is creepy as hell. So is Benjamin Franklin in many ways.

semper occultus wrote:as a fully paid up member of Claustrophobics Anonymous I'd need a general anaesthetic before being able to get down there - or its equivalent in Tennents Extra but nahhhh


Honestly, you'd get used to it in about ten seconds. It's weird. If a tunnel system extends a long, long way with various unkown destinations and branches in it I would be worried ('cos, y'know, monsters and that... you don't know what's in there, or what direction it could come from, even if rationally you know there's probably nothing there at all... except rats) but the Cove is a pretty compact and defined space. It feels like a house. Just underground. George Patterson and his family were probably quite happy there, apart from the smoke from fires or torches that must've choked the place in those days.

semper occultus wrote: .... it's the Templars...got to be really ....I mean look what they were up to under the Temple Mount....must be the remains of the quest for Joseph of Arimethea's lost betting-slip on that winning 5 horse accumulator at the Judea Derby


:lol: Templars and their tunnels deserve a thread of their own, though. Why were there rumours of such things in places as far apart as Yorkshire and Jerusalem?

semper occultus wrote:I've always remembered the story they did on Nationwide years ago on the Treasurers House in York : in the basement of which a detachment of Roman troops was seen marching out of the wall - visible up to their knees at floor level - and disappearing through the opposite one going who knows where...


York's a great place. Some amazing houses there, and of course the Minster itself. Cliffords Tower, where the local Templar chapter were imprisoned before their trial and execution, is well worth a visit even though there's not that much to see. Might do a thread on it. I saw the Treasurer's House but didn't have time to go in, which I'm regretting now.
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Re: Gilmerton Cove - Masons and Templars and Ghosts, Oh My!

Postby NaturalMystik » Tue May 08, 2012 10:40 pm

Very cool thread OP, thanks!

Fresno_Layshaft wrote:In Toronto any structure older than 40 or 50 years is considered ancient and promptly torn down to make room for loft condos. Its really a hideous city. Though I have heard rumours of underground tunnels, if any RI'er knows more about that, post away.


Very true. Although to be fair Toronto is still very young compared to a lot of other places. There's some very cool, hiding in plain site sort of masonic symbology, on some of the old banks and government buildings downtown which probably deserve their own thread, which kinda leads me to believe there must be some cool secret masonic underground chambers around... :praybow But certainly nothing like Gilmerton Cove. Regarding ghosts, I know some of the old buildings in Toronto that remain do reportedly contain lost spirits, specifically the building that now serves as the Hockey Hall of Fame comes to mind as one of Toronto's haunted...

A long time ago I remember there was a web site that was run by a bunch of rogue urban explorers who had mapped out a lot of underground tunnels and 'secret places'. I think they were largely old abandoned subway lines etc. I do remember a really cool piece on one of the old hotels, either the King Eddy or Royal York, possibly both where they had mapped all kinds of hidden nooks and crannys, tunnels, passageways etc. I think the site is long gone though... -(edit)- Just came to me, looks like the site is still up: http://www.infiltration.org. I haven't checked it out in about 10 years but I'm sure there is some interesting stuff on there. Gonna check it out now and there is there is anything 'good'. :)
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