Do Not Cite RT

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Do Not Cite RT

Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:40 am

JackRiddler wrote:Democracy Now! has correspondents in the field. They've had an Egyptian-American reporter in Cairo since the beginning of the revolution and easily had the best field reporting from Egypt of any American source. They have thoughtful, long-form interviews with newsmakers and some original reporting pretty much every day. Amy Goodman was on the plane with Zelaya when he succeeded in returning to Honduras! From listening to the broadcast most mornings (it wakes me up) I'd say at least one-half of DN is DN-produced.


That's interesting; I only have access to DemocracyNow via the internet, so what I've seen is almost all in-studio interviews, which are great, but clearly there's a lot more to DN than I knew.
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
User avatar
AlicetheKurious
 
Posts: 5348
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Egypt
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Do Not Cite RT

Postby Spiro C. Thiery » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:28 am

JackRiddler wrote:
AlicetheKurious wrote:
8bitagent wrote:I like Democracy Now, Glenn Greenwald, Rawstory, etc.

These are not news organizations, with correspondents in the field. RT, CNN, BBC, France24, Al-Jazeera, etc., break the news stories, gather the raw data and often carry live coverage, which makes them irreplaceable. The very fact that they have competing and sometimes mutually exclusive agendas means that they often fill in each other's blanks, covering stories that the others wouldn't. IOW, while each one by itself provides only a piece of the puzzle, taken together they provide a far more complete picture than you could ever get otherwise.

In contrast, DemocracyNow and the others mostly have analysts on, to interpret the news from a particular point of view.
The point about live coverage and correspondents is taken. However Democracy Now! has correspondents in the field. They've had an Egyptian-American reporter in Cairo since the beginning of the revolution and easily had the best field reporting from Egypt of any American source. They were covering the anti-SCAF protests daily last fall, when no other American source was bothering any more with Egypt. They have thoughtful, long-form interviews with newsmakers and some original reporting pretty much every day. Amy Goodman was on the plane with Zelaya when he succeeded in returning to Honduras! From listening to the live broadcast most mornings (it wakes me up) I'd say at least one-half of DN is DN-produced. (About three minutes a day seems to consist of flubs and tech failures.)

It very much matters what you choose to cover, of course you know that, and DN definitely gives more substantive and truthful coverage of more stories (albeit at least half second-hand) that matter than the once-mighty CNN, which fills 24 hours times 3 channels a day. But about 22 on each channel seem to be repeats, or Anderson Cooper, or the really disgusting Wolf Blitzer doing non-stop palaver about the usual bullshit, or celebrity porn. I don't watch CNN but it is always on at work and they have six hours a day of Republican primary bullshit, almost all of it in-studio palaver about the two or three politician soundbites of the day, just like FOX or MS-NBC. Plus six hours of murder-of-the-month (they're very slow about rotating the murder, it really is one a month). They've broken some ground in the Pathetic Department by getting heavily into Twitter commentary, FFS! They have cat video segments! The same applies to most of these networks. Consider also the common use of VNNs by the US networks, they just lift the footage as provided by corporations or the government.

In short, your point is relative. Are we talking about inside the G8 pig-out or the protest outside? Because BBC is only going to properly cover the inside. And NBC often as not is going to use someone else's footage. The best live and on-the-scene coverage of the Occupy protests, for example, has been provided by the Occupy movement. Hands down, and 99 percent. CNN gets the footage of pepper-spraying incidents off Youtube. Finally, although it gives a satanic amount of hours to the imperialists and cutthroats of AEI, I'd have to say the three C-SPAN channels produce an enormous amount of on-scene material just by pointing a camera.

Very good points. "Relative" really is the thing. We cannot get around that. Heck, every one of us has an agenda, so to speak, insofar as just about any individual of discerning taste will put effort into crafting their stated opinions carefully, so as to mesh with their own worldview.

That said, one cannot discount the level to which a Westerner's opinion about RT is shaped by a lifetime of American television and print media. It seems to me that everyone on this thread agrees that a grain of salt is always in order. That's already healthy. But if I read the OP correctly, the argument is being made that one should not share that news even with a grain of salt. In other words: Under no circumstances get caught taking anything on RT seriously. If you do watch it, don't tell anybody unless you're ridiculing it, otherwise the baddies will paint you red (or something). I can't share that attitude. F the baddies, I say.

As regards Democracy Now!, I am not one to take Amy Goodman to task, for she has put her ass on the line, literally, many times. She walks the walk. But I will suggest, gently, that that particular station is not averse to tacit cries for intervention "here, instead of there" ("there" being wherever the US/NATO weapons happen to be doing indiscriminate damage at the time).

My use of the word "station" reminds me: Not having watched television, as it were, for quite some time: All of my exposure to these media are via links to the sundry toobs around the web. Does RT also actively promote the Russian regime?
Seeing the world through rose-colored latex.
User avatar
Spiro C. Thiery
 
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:58 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Do Not Cite RT

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:37 am

AlicetheKurious wrote:
JackRiddler wrote:Democracy Now! has correspondents in the field. They've had an Egyptian-American reporter in Cairo since the beginning of the revolution and easily had the best field reporting from Egypt of any American source. They have thoughtful, long-form interviews with newsmakers and some original reporting pretty much every day. Amy Goodman was on the plane with Zelaya when he succeeded in returning to Honduras! From listening to the broadcast most mornings (it wakes me up) I'd say at least one-half of DN is DN-produced.


That's interesting; I only have access to DemocracyNow via the internet, so what I've seen is almost all in-studio interviews, which are great, but clearly there's a lot more to DN than I knew.


Apropos, today they broke a story, or rather Juan Gonzalez did. He's been the partner on the show since the beginning, and is pretty much the only investigative reporter at the NY Daily News, known for having exposed Citytime, a ridiculous contractor fraud (about half a billion to a firm that promised to revolutionize the city's timecard system, but just ate the money and did nothing for almost 10 years). That should have ended Bloomberg, except we live in post-reality. Anyway, today via Daily News he identified the White Plains cop who shot Kenneth Chamberlin, and in the morning was on DN with the story and an interview with the son of the man.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/sou ... -1.1056394

Just to underline that they break stories on this show. Also, a large proportion of the interviews are with reporters in the field for other outlets, or others who have genuinely done the work on site or are themselves newsmakers.

DN definitely has its flaws, and its willingness to give platform to calls for "humanitarian" offensives under Democratic administrations is one of them. They had a couple of people on to criticize the Libya bombing but mostly they were lifting the reporting and analysis straight from Al Jazeera or BBC.
Last edited by JackRiddler on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Do Not Cite RT

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:40 am

By the way, I'm embarrassed to have written.

JackRiddler wrote:Are we talking about inside the G8 pig-out or the protest outside? Because BBC is only going to properly cover the inside.


The properly part. Which was merely supposed to mean, actually be on the scene within the walls. But even there they're either soundbite stenographers or giving some UK agenda.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Do Not Cite RT

Postby beeline » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:11 pm

Lou Reed wrote:Believe half of what you read, and none of what you hear.
User avatar
beeline
 
Posts: 2024
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 4:10 pm
Location: Killadelphia, PA
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Do Not Cite RT

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:17 pm

beeline wrote:
Lou Reed wrote:Believe half of what you read, and none of what you hear.


SEE. Believe half of what you SEE. (Read? Really?)

He has an Indian saying it in the song, "Last Great American Whale," from "New York."

But thanks of reminding me of one my favorite albums.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Do Not Cite RT

Postby beeline » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:22 pm

JackRiddler wrote:
beeline wrote:
Lou Reed wrote:Believe half of what you read, and none of what you hear.


SEE. Believe half of what you SEE. (Read? Really?)

He has an Indian saying it in the song, "Last Great American Whale," from "New York."

But thanks of reminding me of one my favorite albums.


lol Jack I should've googled the lyrics first, haven't listened to New York in years.
User avatar
beeline
 
Posts: 2024
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 4:10 pm
Location: Killadelphia, PA
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Do Not Cite RT

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:52 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:
8bitagent wrote:I like Democracy Now, Glenn Greenwald, Rawstory, etc.


These are not news organizations, with correspondents in the field. RT, CNN, BBC, France24, Al-Jazeera, etc., break the news stories, gather the raw data and often carry live coverage, which makes them irreplaceable. The very fact that they have competing and sometimes mutually exclusive agendas means that they often fill in each other's blanks, covering stories that the others wouldn't. IOW, while each one by itself provides only a piece of the puzzle, taken together they provide a far more complete picture than you could ever get otherwise.

Even the fact that each one reflects the agenda of a particular player makes them very valuable: for example, the New York Times is unbelievably biased, but it's the best place to go to find out the US/Israel's real objectives are, as opposed to what they say they are. The same goes for all of them. Also, it's a lot smarter to let each party speak for itself, rather than trust others to accurately portray their opponent's views.

In contrast, DemocracyNow and the others mostly have analysts on, to interpret the news from one particular perspective.

If you like your news pre-cooked and nicely arranged on a dish for you, you'll rely only on such sources. That's like if I ask you where you do your grocery shopping and you name a few Italian restaurants. That's great if what you're looking for is to reinforce your existing biases and avoid any cognitive dissonance. What most of us are suggesting is that you widen your scope to include all the various sources of news AND analysis, and then use your critical faculties to sift through them. Only then can you consider yourself reasonably well-informed.


I get what you're saying about well balance and strong suits. I definitely think I often get caught up in confirmation bias feeding 'alternative' news sites.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Do Not Cite RT

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:19 pm

beeline wrote:
JackRiddler wrote:
beeline wrote:
Lou Reed wrote:Believe half of what you read, and none of what you hear.


SEE. Believe half of what you SEE. (Read? Really?)

He has an Indian saying it in the song, "Last Great American Whale," from "New York."

But thanks of reminding me of one my favorite albums.


lol Jack I should've googled the lyrics first, haven't listened to New York in years.


I've been listening to it lots in the last couple of months. Great songs and some of the most enjoyable guitar riffs ever.

I live at least 50 km from anywhere and its great driving music.
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 10616
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Do Not Cite RT

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:24 pm

BTW Crikey is ok. Its an australian subscriber online thing. One of their writers - bernard keane I think - was outed as a member of anonymous (incorrectly I assume) by Aaron Barr the other year.
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 10616
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Do Not Cite RT

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:19 pm

Stephen Morgan wrote:On the other hand, ITN (you forgot them, I assume, as they are to news what the Simpsons is to current affairs) have, on no less than two separate occasions, used moving pictures from video games as footage of actual combat operations. The Guardian linked to some sort of fake picture of the Breivik blast on their live timeline, too.


Fair point. I remember an ITV documentary on the PIRA's links to Gaddafi that used footage from Arma 2 (which they had nicked off Youtube) as actual footage of an attack on a British Army helicopter, but I don't know about the other case.

I have to say that mid-period Simpsons is an excellent resource on both the current affairs of the time and on American values as a whole, though. Much more reliable than This American Life, or Time, or whatever. I have actually cited the Simpsons here in the past, as evidence that group-writing efforts could've produced Shakespeare's plays. But that's off-topic.

I wouldn't dogmatically say to anyone "Don't CITE RT" - or Pravda, or BBC, etc - but nobody should TRUST RT (or any of the others).

Certainly I wouldn't cite RT on a mainstream US politics forum, just as I wouldn't cite Cryptome on Mumsnet.
"The universe is 40 billion light years across and every inch of it would kill you if you went there. That is the position of the universe with regard to human life."
User avatar
AhabsOtherLeg
 
Posts: 3285
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:43 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Do Not Cite RT

Postby elfismiles » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:34 pm

Chris Hedges challenges NDAA in court

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsCiFnE14kA
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8512
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: Do Not Cite RT

Postby wordspeak2 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:31 am

To be fair (coming from me being generally pro-RT)- RT just fucked up a story claiming that Netflix started a pro-SOPA Super Pac. While Netflix has upped its lobbying efforts recently, this is simply not true.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201204 ... rpac.shtml

Sloppy.
wordspeak2
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:20 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Do Not Cite RT

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:55 pm

Should probably cross-post this:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30362&p=457857#p457857
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Do Not Cite RT

Postby Simulist » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:52 am

JackRiddler wrote:Should probably cross-post this:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30362&p=457857#p457857

I'm glad you did; it's very important to this topic -- especially the areas you highlighted.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
User avatar
Simulist
 
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:13 pm
Location: Here, and now.
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 147 guests