Seattle Massacre

by **hmm** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:21 am

there is a danger in lumping together "rave kids" as these events range from huge corporate sponsored for-profit raves more akin to a disco party to illegal "underground" raves that one could almost label a mobile hippy commune (right down to the homemade macro-biotic snacks). Having got that out of the way, your simple question, how many of these kids are program survivors is one i cant answer directly. But the question leads me to something that is quite personal and disturbs me greatly. i come from a "classic" disfunctional family, i have never viewed myself as being abused, there was never any physical violence and i dont recall anything sexual in any way, stranger or otherwise. At first it didnt really register with me, i am who i am, if someone is interested in a "real" and serious conversation at a party with 10,000 people and booming music after consuming mind altering substances like alcohol i find the time. I am also very aware of my surroundings and am often the first to notice if someone isnt feeling ok and i find the time to ask or help. It was not just friends or acquaintances, complete strangers would seem to be attracted to me (for want of a better word) and need to talk about their sexual abuse as a child or rape when a young adult. This happened so often that i began to recognise "it" in people. At some point something clicked, and i looked back at the relationships i had in the past as a whole, and was shocked when i realised how many were survivors of abuse. so while i realise that my own childhood might be a factor, and that (rave) counter-culture attracts people in need of a family, i am left with the impression that abuse is happening on a staggering scale due to the amount of survivors i have met at raves and afterparties.

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:40 pm

This from the NYT's Fashion section for Sunday 3/26/06 which would have been in many stores the day before when the Zombie rave massacre happened. I don't think mind control and ritual abuse are exotic events so much as the basis of popular culture which is now loaded with triggers for rule-by-tension violence and chaos. I already mentioned that Borders has a Rob Zombie CD featured at the check out counter. <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/fashion/sundaystyles/26ZOMBIES.html?ex=1301029200&en=7a447b4757c9e353&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss">www.nytimes.com/2006/03/2...nd&emc=rss</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Most zombie zealots seem to agree that the zombie renaissance has something to do with the anxieties of life after Sept. 11. "People have apocalypse on the brain right now," Mr. Brooks said. "It's from terrorism, the war, natural disasters like Katrina." Several zombie aficionados said there was a zombielike quality to the spread of the bird flu. Zombies, Mr. Brooks said, are the perfect goblin for such times, in part because they suggest broad social collapse, when anyone — a policeman, a nurse, a friend — can turn into a force of evil. With a werewolf or vampire, all the evil is concentrated on a single creature; with zombies, the evil is everywhere. "They go hand in hand with apocalyptic scenarios," Mr. Brooks said. "You can't have one zombie. You've got to have millions of them. Society has to be breaking down. And zombies aren't in conventional horror settings. Zombies find you. The sun comes up, and they're still there. You call the cops, and they're still there. They create a chain reaction of societal collapse." Bryan Smith, the author of "Deathbringer," agreed. "It speaks to the underlying fear that a lot of people have that the whole world can suddenly go crazy," he said.<hr></blockquote>

by **Dreams End** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:11 pm

Once I went on a delegation to Chiapas. One of the delegates was a priest who served in Chiapas but was from the US. Another friend and I had started talking about the term we had developed "Global Girls." This had to do with our interaction with earnest but glassy eyed female activists mostly from an organization called "Global Exchange." It was half joking, but these folks seemed always the first to get any political hot spots (still do, in fact) and their affect just had us conjuring up images of little robots, gathering info for someone. The priest just chimed in about how a friend of his had written a book (though I don't think it came to print.) The friend was a psychiatrist and was running into all these female patients alleging MKUltra type stuff (I didn't even know that term then, so he didn't say it that way). the commonality they all had was that their fathers were in the military and the abuse was alleged to have happened on a military base. Now, these were leftists in this conversation. And although most leftists are "anti-conspiratorial" (I won't bother to get into that discussion now) my friend and I were open to the idea though rather ignorant about the whole MKUltra thing. Still, it was weird to have this priest (a very good man) simply confirm what we'd "joked" about as a real possibility. Since then, I've learned a lot. And one thing I think I'm learning is that, whether MC stuff is that widespread is an open question for me, the abuse and related is surely much more widespread than is popularly understood. Hmmm (and do keep posting, please!) is right...if you have eyes to see, it is everywhere. Recently I had dinner with a friend. She was a leader at a teen program I'd worked for some years ago and is now 25. She kept zoning out -- and always had, though she was quite organized and didn't seem to fit the ADD category, which we talked about, since I most definitely do. She shared how her half sister had "schizophrenia" and had left her parents' and ended up, I think, in a shelter in Hawaii or somewhere. The parents came to get her, but since she was over 18, it wasn't easy. Especially since the young woman was accusing them of abuse. They got her back, and she's there today. But I hadn't realized where they live. In the same town as the school of the Americas (Torture University for all your dictatorial needs.) Not only that, but her Dad is in very tight with the CO of the place and actually hosts an annual party during the school of the Americas protests. And my friend was really unsure where she stood on the issue. But now she is back living there. Working at an institute her Dad started for kids with cancer (he's an MD). What could I say to her? I both thought and sensed that there was so much beneath the surface there. Very deep issues, combined with the School of the Americas connection. But there's nothing I can do. If there is anything to it, she'll have to figure it out on her own. I'll just sound like a lunatic. I really think that either most of this MKultra stuff is b.s. and highly exaggerated, or it's far worse than we, even on this board, really imagine. Think about it. As soon as ONE succesfully programmed person was shown to function in the ways they hoped, you think they WOULDN'T keep doing it? You think that people who know how to do this would not also start "programming" people for their own pleasure?

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:04 pm

Just divide-and-conquer fear-mongering serves the same purpose as the more extreme version of the MKUltra model. Interesting that Zombies, Terrorists, Commies, and Homos are "everywhere and out to get ya." Consider that the continued demonization of homosexuality creates the equivalent of the Zombie out to get ya in the minds of those fearfully susceptible to homophobia. "They will change your kids and you!" That horrible Larouche quote you pulled out illustrates this blind spot of irrrational fear still lurking in the minds of not just the old religious book-types but all the generations preceding the present one. The binary agents of 'gay is a choice' and 'AIDS will kill us all' becomes that horrible thing Larouche said about protecting civilisation with baseball bats on young gays. This is truly a Zombie movie script! My otherwise very progressive father (first warned me of Nazi America) is still more Fred Phelps than Phil Donahue on the topic of gays and the attitude is very common in older men. Gender fears and neuroses are intentionally inflamed to keep the 'Zombies Among Us' tension in Americans to be harvested. So I see the mechanics of popular culture mind control as more pervasive and damaging to social justice than the more extremely weaponized MKUltra form.

by **thoughtographer** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:14 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>So I see the mechanics of popular culture mind control as more pervasive and damaging to social justice than the more extremely weaponized MKUltra form.<hr></blockquote> I see the same thing, but since people can barely peek their periscopes above the churning waters on the surface, an approach of isolation is downright irresponsible. It would be nice if the voices of "straight-talkers" were heard by the masses, but who will be able to focus? I went to a kid's birthday party yesterday, and just looking at the types of "gifts" people brought was overwhelming to the point that I had to "take a walk" before I had an anxiety attack from thinking of the impact of these images on the mind of a child. I never have to think past my own childhood to understand the full implications. I got her some books. "A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:40 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I had an anxiety attack from thinking of the impact of these images on the mind of a child. I never have to think past my own childhood to understand the full implications.<hr></blockquote> Ugh, me too. I'm seeing tiny kids in military camoflage-colored clothes everywhere. I stop and ask parents and they tend to roll their eyes and say "yeah, it's dumb but all the kids are wearing it." Hmm.... Yesterday I was standing in Safeway Supermarket at the magazine rack next to the check-out to read the Time magazine cover article admitting global warming is real and dangerous. (Seems China and India will be the real problem and people polled want to respond with big tax cuts to corporations and more nuclear power. Yeah, right. Thanks, Council on Foreign Relations also being fronted by Barak Obama.) A women unloading her groceries onto the belt was sniping at her baseball-uniformed young boy with petty sarcasms "put that down, knock it off, stand up straight, oh-thanks for helping me!" Then she started complaining to the cashier that she couldn't find Carnation Instant Breakfast after going up and down all the aisles "because we heard that is a good way to gain weight and we really want him to get bigger. We tried the Booster drink but he hated it so we're looking for something else." I looked around and couldn't see this young boy and wondered where he went. I put the Time propaganda down to leave and walked past this awful women. I noticed he was sitting huddled up on the floor looking miserable and trying to be invisible. I interrupted his mother's rant about how small he was by saying "why don't you try more guilt and shame?" She laughed as if I had genuinely made a joke and retorted "how would that help?" I kept my 'telling you something important stare' on her as I walked away and said "EXACTLY." I heard her saying to the cashier over my shoulder "what brought that on?" If I hadn't been so disgusted by the CIA/CFR Time propaganda I might have stopped to tell the boy "Adults are mostly clueless about what you are going through and tend to make it worse. Don't listen to anyone who doesn't like you as you are. You don't need to 'get on the team' to attack other teams. That is a scam meant to keep you from getting smarter and making the world a better place." This nasty mother was perpetuating exactly the social engineering that 'Chicken Little' is meant to amplify to get army recruits, ignore women and seek male approval to 'get on the team and win the big game.' This is actually the storyline on the back of the 'Chicken Little' booklet that this small unhappy uniform-clad boy was suffering from- "Chicken Little steps up to the plate to show everyone what he's really made of. Will he succeed-or continue to be the laughingstock of the whole town." This is straight out of Langley, Virginia and is why Disney took Mickey Mouse off their Disney Dollars and put Chicken Little on, to push boys away from nurturing women and needing to compete to please Dad-Coach-Fuhrer and get on to 'the team.' What could be more dehumanizing than to be 'off the team'? Sports and models are meant to destroy the self-esteem of boys and girls by presenting them with unattainable goals and lock in competitive neuroses for life while polarizing their gender identities to guarantee a 'warrior' class of hostile tribalists. Now that is fucking mind control. Parents are still mostly clueless about how popular culture and even public schooling (see John Taylor Gatto) has been designed to scar children for life and get drones and fodder. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 4/3/06 3:58 pm

by **thoughtographer** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:53 pm

Well, I know that the people like the Mormons don't have the answer, and the very core of that line of thinking is isolationist at best, and vengeful and sinister at worst. "A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."

by **Ted the dog** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:08 pm

regarding the zombie thing....it could be what Brooks said in the article...or it could be the fact that the current generation of mid to late 20-somethings/30-something horror fans was exposed to the Romero zombie films of the late 70's/early 80's...and then had to endure the boring "no man's land" of mid-80's to mid-90's of mainstream american film making. Horror movies were made in insane numbers in the 70's and early 80's...not so much in the late 80's. and certainly not in the early 90's. not in America, at least. What was being made in the early 90's? horribly boring "suspense thrillers".

by **hmm** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:12 am

of the murder suicide.. <a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002905219_huff02m.html">seattletimes.nwsource.com...ff02m.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Jared Hope, a high-school friend of the twins, killed his parents and shot himself on a weekend visit home from Missoula. According to Ciaramitaro, the Huff brothers had been out drinking with Hope the night that the murders and suicide occurred. Hope had long struggled with mental illness that was well known among friends. And the twins told Ciaramitaro that they were uneasy with Hope's behavior that night. "They said that they had seen him on that last night, and went back to their house, and were talking about he [Hope] was getting a little too weird to be around." After that tragedy, friends reflected on Hope's troubled life and wished they could have done more to help. But Ciaramitaro said that as he reflects on Kyle Huff's life, he sees none of the same warning signs.<hr></blockquote> The article has alot more background on the twins.

by **hmm** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:41 am

i want to thank you for posting that reply you did, i felt fine posting what i did but afterwards i came close to deleting it as i felt really uncomfortable about it. i feel its both of these not or.. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I really think that either most of this MKultra stuff is b.s. and highly exaggerated, or it's far worse than we, even on this board, really imagine.<hr></blockquote>

by **GDN01** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:23 pm

Hmm - I'm not sure how wide spread the MK abuse is, but I agree with you that sexual abuse is more widespread than anyone can imagine. Like you, I have heard more abuse stories than I can count over the years. When I am with a group of women, especially, and the subject comes up and women begin sharing their stories, I would say at least 3 out of 5 of the women I know have been abused, raped, molested, or experienced some degree of sexual assault - often times more than once in their lifetime. Sometimes it is every woman in the group has a story to tell. It is very sad to think how many people have damaged in this way. I had seen the article you posted on the Huff brothers being out with their friend the night he killed his parents and himself. It also points to some disturbing possibilities about their own dad being unstable after his time in Viet Nam. It makes you wonder what happened in their home. I wonder if their mother will ever shed any light on this.

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:19 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Hope had long struggled with mental illness<hr></blockquote> Now if you were running a military junta out of the White House and wanted a baseline of terror and violence to keep war culturally normalized in the misinformed infantalized angst-ridden youth of America, what would you do? Maybe load their entertainment media with recreational violence and add occasional senseless tragedy? I think so. I have early 1980s Amnesty International books about torture around the world. Amnesty cites as the goals of torture- Debility, Dependency, and Dread. That's a pretty succint definition of Rule By Tension and fascist state-sponsored terror plus eugenics. This is why I think that post-WWII CIA 'spychiatry' has led to tapping Biderman's Chart of Coercions and MKUltra research as the basis for intentionally sown widespread MASS neuroses in the general public, not just a few RA victims. See if you recognize in Biderman's Chart of Coercions what every child experiences at the hands of their parents and then school, church, government, etc. <a href="http://www.actabuse.com/chartofcoercion.html">www.actabuse.com/chartofcoercion.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The following chart identifies methods or tactics of power and control used by abusers as well as the anticipated result. It was reprinted by Diana Russell in her book "Rape in Marriage." The chart is originally from an Amnesty International publication entitled "Report of Torture" depicting the brainwashing of prisoners of war. Abusers who brainwash their intimate partners use methods similar to those of prison guards who recognize that physical control is never easily accomplished without the cooperation of the prisoner. The most effective way to gain that cooperation is through subversive manipulation of the mind and feelings of the victim, who then becomes a psychological, as well as a physical, prisoner. These methods form the core of emotional abuse. <hr></blockquote> Isolation  >Deprives victim of all social support (necessary for the) ability to resist. >Developes an intense concern with self. >Makes victim dependent upon interrogator. Monopolization of Perception >Fixes attention upon immediate predicament; fosters introspection. >Eliminates stimuli competing with those controlled by the captor. >Frustrates all actions not consistent with compliance. Induced Debility & Exhaustion >Weakens mental and physical ability to resist.  Threats >Cultivates anxiety and despair. Occasional Indulgences >Provides positive motivation for compliance.  Demonstrating "Omnipotence" >Suggests futility of resistance. Enforcing Trivial Demands >Develops habit of compliance. Degradation >Makes cost of resistance appear more damaging to self esteem than capitulation. >Reduces prisoner to "animal level" concerns.

by **Project Willow** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:38 pm

I think a lot of our culture is a reflection of what we are experiencing, and influences our behavior as well, in a ciruclar fashion. I think if media is manipulated, or used, it is used in limited and opportunistic ways. In other words, I don't think general trends in entertainment media can be attributed to an organized conspiracy, although various incidences can be. Here is something along the lines of what you've posted: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The following list describes 12 forms of mind control, beginning with thought reform that is registered consciously, with memory, through the most covert forms of mind control, in which the individual has no memory of the installation, and is controlled beyond conscious awareness. <hr></blockquote><a href="http://truthbeknown2000.tripod.com/Truthbeknown2000/id17.html">truthbeknown2000.tripod.com/Truthbeknown2000/id17.html</a>

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:51 pm

As I recall, that article cites the victim's not realizing that they are gradually changing as the most effective aspect of mind control. This is why popular entertainment is loaded with mind viruses, not just news cycle control. People welcome the virus and laugh at it thereby 'inhaling deeply into their psyche.' Zero resistance is the desired state of the patient.

Seattle Massacre

Re: my observation at raves re survivors

Re: Psy-Ops?-3/25 preview of NYTimes article on....Zombies.

Re: Psy-Ops?-3/25 preview of NYTimes article on....Zombies.

Re: Psy-Ops?-3/25 preview of NYTimes article on....Zombies.

Re: Psy-Ops?-3/25 preview of NYTimes article on....Zombies.

Re: Psy-Ops?-3/25 preview of NYTimes article on....Zombies.

Re: Psy-Ops?-3/25 preview of NYTimes article on....Zombies.

...

Re: Kyle and Kane were with Jared Hope on the night

Re: lets not focus on irrelevant Zombies.

Re: lets not focus on irrelevant Zombies.

Re: lets not focus on irrelevant Zombies.

Re: lets not focus on irrelevant Zombies.

Re:12 steps for mind control

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