Lanning's denial of snuff movies *triggering*

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Lanning's denial of snuff movies *triggering*

Postby biaothanatoi » Wed May 24, 2006 3:50 am

We all know about Lanning's infamous "nobody asked me to but I'll write it anyway" report in which he claims there is no evidence for organised ritualistic abuse ... despite, you know, all those pesky prosecutions and confessions.<br><br>I just came across this:<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Ken Lanning, an FBI special agent who took part in investigations, this week said: "I sometimes refer to snuff movies as the Holy Grail of porn", but added, "It is the ultimate thing that you can find. But nobody has ever found it yet." (<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>G-men's 25-year search for Holy Grail of porn</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, Stephen Naysmith, 23 April 2000, Sunday Herald).<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>That contradicts a 1990 statement by Detective Superintendent Michael Hames (head of Scotland Yard's child pornography squad) who said: <br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>“In America, the FBI went undercover to a meeting of people invited to watch a snuff movie with a view to buying a copy and the fee to attend the showing alone was 10,000 dollars." (<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>British police probe "snuff movies" in child murder hunt</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, 27 July 1990, Reuters News).<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br>At this point, I should say that, before the advent of the Internet, there are very few reports of law enforcement agencies ever actually seeing a snuff movie, although a stash of them was allegedly uncovered in Scotland in 1997 (Snuff video haul, 17 February 1997, Scottish Daily Record). <br><br>However, during child abduction/murder investigations throughout the 80s and 90s, a number of police informers and witnesses claimed to have viewed snuff movies in America and throughout Europe. Key informants made consistent disclosures about the nature of the trade in snuff movies: That is, it was made to order, with very small numbers of copies being circulated at a cost of literally thousands of dollars each. <br><br>Andrew Boyd's informants in his expose of ritual abuse in England ("Blasphemous Rumours") claimed to know of occult stores where ritual abuse snuff porn was sold under the counter for thousands of pounds a tape. <br><br>Post 2000, the advent of the Internet has revolutionised (you might say "democratised") the black market in child porn, and the clientele for snuff movies appears to have broadened beyond rich deviants. In short, Lanning's "Holy Grail" has been found all over the world. <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Scotland:</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> "Detectives who found Simon Harris hanged at his home on Sunday uncovered a stash of child porn. The hoard - hidden in his shed and the house - included computer images, photos and snuff movies." (Child porn stash found in murder suspect's house, Amy Devine, 30 August 2005, Scottish Daily Record).<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>South Africa:</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> "In a gruesome case which has shocked South Africa, Ronnie Grimsley was jailed for life last week for his assault on 18-year-old Tanya Flowerday. <br><br>... police who investigated the case remain convinced Tanya was killed after featuring in a snuff movie where victims are filmed as they are raped and murdered. They believed the disturbing video evidence has since been sold overseas." (Fiend raped and killed teenager in grotesque snuff movie execution, Ruairi O'Kane, 2 August 2005, The Daily Express)<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Britain:</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> "... During a harrowing trial at Lewes crown court, the jury had heard that Coutts, who kept Ms Longhurst's body for almost a month and visited it frequently while it was in a storage unit, was an avid user of sites devoted to snuff movies and necrophilia." (Killer was obsessed by porn websites, Steven Morris, 5 February 2004, The Guardian)<br><br>"... Speaking in a trembling voice, she also told how she was forced to watch DVD snuff movies. She said one of her attackers had said: "We are killers, you know." (Court hears of schoolgirl's abuse by footballers gang, 19 November 2004, Daily Star)<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Netherlands:</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> "The undercover officer asked Spinks if he could get him a sado-masochistic video featuring boys as young as 10, and Spinks replied that he knew people in Amsterdam who could: `I know, well I knew, some people who were involved in making snuff movies and how they did it was, they only sold them in limited editions, made 10 copies or something, 10 very rich customers in America, who paid $5,000 each or something like that". " (When sex abuse can lead to murder, Nick Davies, 27 November 2000, The Guardian)<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Ireland:</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> "... A special police unit was able to infiltrate a paedophile network, intercepting packages of pornographic material arriving by mail and then having them delivered by undercover policemen, dressed as postmen and carrying hidden cameras. Thousands of tapes and digital disks, seized during raids on 600 homes, included scenes in which minors - possibly orphans or kidnap victims, some aged only two - were raped. One videotape, costing #4, appears to have been a "snuff movie", showing the killing of a child." (TV personality row eclipses paedophile pornography, By PADDY AGNEW, 4 October 2000, Irish Times)<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Russia:</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> "Last week Italian police seized 3,000 of Kuznetsov's videos on their way to clients in Italy, sparking an international hunt for paedophiles who have bought his products. The Italian investigators say the material includes footage of children dying during abuse. Prosecutors in Naples are considering charging those who have bought the videos with complicity in murder. They say some may have specifically requested films of killings. " (British link to 'snuff' videos, By Jason Burke, Amelia Gentleman, Philip Willan, 1 October 2000, The Observer)<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Furthermore</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->: In 2003, Interpol assistant director Hamish McCulloch stated: "There is no doubt that such films exist, many of which are available via the internet." (Snuff Movies: Fact or Fiction? 16 October 2003, SAPA)<br><br>So what is the real deal with Kenneth Lanning? He claims that the FBI has found no evidence of snuff movies in 25 years, when the FBI passed on information to Scotland Yard in the late 1980s that suggested otherwise. <br><br>He has since been proven to have been emphatically wrong - should we expect a retraction? Is snuff another crime that won't be prosecuted because nobody will accept that it is happening? Why does Lanning keep denying the horrifying lived experience of ritual abuse survivors and exploited women and children around the world? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=biaothanatoi@rigorousintuition>biaothanatoi</A> at: 5/24/06 1:57 am<br></i>
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Re:snuff definition

Postby havanagilla » Wed May 24, 2006 9:02 am

Biao, the definition can use clarification. In my understanding snuff is a file of "real" (as opposed to 'staged') abuse, sexual abuse etc. Others might refer to harder situation (live killings) I don't know. I am sure there is a lot of the first kind, not sure about the second kind. Its obvious that internet cameras are filming live abuse of kids and sending it to many users. does this qualify ? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Lanning's denial of snuff movies *triggering*

Postby semper occultus » Wed May 24, 2006 9:11 am

"Snuff" is a live murder caught on film with a strong sexual abusive element - nice huh ?<br>Funnily enough Lanning was interviewed on this issue on a documentary I saw a couple of weeks ago about the 1980's explosion of video nasties & "snuff" .<br>My recollection was that he seemed to be working to a definition that revolved more around motive than the content of the film - ie it had to be a commercially-produced film with some recognisable form of distribution & therefore films that turned up of sickos filming themselves in the commission of crimes ( Leonard Lake / Ng etc ) therefore don't fit the definition. <br>Even by this yard-stick however some of those cases seem pretty open & shut.<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=semperoccultus>semper occultus</A> at: 5/24/06 7:14 am<br></i>
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Re: Lanning's denial of snuff movies *triggering*

Postby dugoboy » Wed May 24, 2006 10:47 am

i remember when i first saw that nicholas cage movie '8MM'. its about a private investigator (nicholas cage) who is hired to research the authenticity of an alleged snuff movie found in the vault of a recently deceased millionaire, which takes him to some sleazy environments.<br><br>that movie really delved into some hell on earth type stuff. i've never watched it since and i don't think i ever will again. i literally cried, sometimes you just can't accept the brutal horrible things humans do to other humans. <p>___________________________________________<br>"BUSHCO aren't incompetent...they are COMPLICIT."</p><i></i>
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Re: Lanning's denial of snuff movies *triggering*

Postby semper occultus » Wed May 24, 2006 11:17 am

I was going to mention that film - except I was thinking it was called 9mm ! <br>Also it was a virtual remake of the late 70's Paul Schrader film Hardcore ( The Hardcore Life ) which I think had the snuff films being made in Mexico .<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Lanning's denial of snuff movies *triggering*

Postby dugoboy » Wed May 24, 2006 12:01 pm

hm...the tagline for 8MM is 'You can't prepare for where the truth will take you.' thats the truth... <p>___________________________________________<br>"BUSHCO aren't incompetent...they are COMPLICIT."</p><i></i>
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Re: Lanning's denial of snuff movies *triggering*

Postby thoughtographer » Wed May 24, 2006 12:46 pm

8MM? The piece of Joel Shumaker trash? It's been a while since I've seen it, but doesn't it end with the private investigator (Cage's character) KILLING everyone and then going home to live happily ever after with his estranged wife? What an irresponsible, voyeuristic, maudlin piece of shit. I believe that snuff films do exist, and the thought of that reality thoroughly sickens me, but the way in which this movie coyly demonizes loud music and "occult" imagery and ends in a festival of vigilante violence is ham-handed and overindulgent. Maybe it's cathartic for some people to watch this, but that only makes me wonder what people are feeling that makes them need to seek that sort of comfort from a movie with such a violent, vengeful message. I'd rather watch "Batman & Robin" any day. <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i></i>
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...

Postby Ted the dog » Wed May 24, 2006 1:04 pm

"The piece of Joel Shumaker trash?"<br><br>lol<br><br><br><br>They made an 8mm part two, as well. straight to video, I think. It's the non-Nick Cage version. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Lanning's denial of snuff movies *triggering*

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Wed May 24, 2006 1:06 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I'd rather watch "Batman & Robin" any day.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I prefer Ice Pirates.. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Lanning's denial of snuff movies *triggering*

Postby professorpan » Wed May 24, 2006 2:46 pm

Another film about snuff movies is David Cronenberg's "Videodrome." It's a very dark commentary on simulation vs. reality, and one of Cronenberg's best. Not for the fainthearted or easily creeped out, though.<br><br>It's also prophetic, depicting the explosion of porn that would arrive with the Internet. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Lanning's denial of snuff movies *triggering*

Postby biaothanatoi » Wed May 24, 2006 8:19 pm

Hey SO,<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>My recollection was that he seemed to be working to a definition that revolved more around motive than the content of the film<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br>Interesting. This is similar to his RA report - he was working with a very narrow definition of RA, which he then dismissed, by he didn't explain how/why he had come to such a narrow definition. And, of course, his straw man becomes the proxy for all RA. <br><br>B <p></p><i></i>
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re:videodrome

Postby juno jones » Wed May 24, 2006 8:36 pm

Thanks for reminding me, Pan! Just watched that one again the other day. the plot's tied in with porn, yes, but the story, at root, is actually about a shadowy gov't agency that is running extra signals on TV carrier waves to mentally enslave and later kill those who might rebel against an 'ultra-moral' oligarchic/fascist society in the future. The movie's basically a kind of Manchurian Candidate story that's thouroghly immersed in Cronenberg's surreally organic universe. The porn/ s-m angle turns out to be a honeypot to catch a few vermin for test runs before the PTB unleash their weapon on the general population.<br>Hmm, I always found this movie quite disturbing somehow...<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: re:videodrome

Postby dugoboy » Wed May 24, 2006 8:50 pm

me 2. <p>___________________________________________<br>"BUSHCO aren't incompetent...they are COMPLICIT."</p><i></i>
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Re: Lanning's denial of snuff movies *triggering*

Postby biaothanatoi » Wed May 24, 2006 10:36 pm

How do you establish the S&M-pedo-necro link without pissing off a whole bunch of consensual S&Mers who are doing nothing illegal and having a great time?<br><br>The concept of paedophilia as a "mental illness" or "sexual orientation" is bullshit. At a baseline, pedos are into the same stuff as S&Mers - transgression, power, pain. They just take it a number of steps further. <br><br>That's what RA is - not "paedophile rings" - but underground S&M networks where you can do whatever the hell you want - rape, pillage, plunder - and you don't get caught. RA perps don't care how old you are - a kid, an adult, whatever - they just want to hurt you.<br><br>It's no coincidence that most snuff movies are about killing kids. Once you've gone far enough to want to see someone raped and murdered, you are likely to have moved into pedo territory anyway. There's a link between getting off on hurting people in general and having sex with kids.<br><br>And there's our political problem. I don't care if the soccer mom from down the road wants to go to a warehouse in a corset with a strap-on and do whatever the hell she wants. Hope she has a good time. <br><br>But these networks of 'friends' can (and do) change over time and become something else - or get linked with something else. Satanic cultism isn't about religion - it's the trappings that get them off - the rituals are an overlay <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>for</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> the violent sex, just something else to heighten the experience for the perps. <br><br>But how do you talk like this about Satanism and S&M without sounding like a raving right-wing psycho? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Lanning's denial of snuff movies *triggering*

Postby thoughtographer » Wed May 24, 2006 10:45 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>How do you establish the S&M-pedo-necro link without pissing off a whole bunch of consensual S&Mers who are doing nothing illegal and having a great time?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>That's a question that's not easily answered, and leads to other questions, not the least of which being the puzzle of whether those things are causative agents, or simply appeal to a preexisting condition that has less simply identifiable cultural roots.<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The concept of paedophilia as a "mental illness" or "sexual orientation" is bullshit. At a baseline, pedos are into the same stuff as S&Mers - transgression, power, pain. They just take it a number of steps further.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>Removing the possibility of compassion for the faults of others makes the perpetrators so much soulless, animated meat puppets. To reduce a human being to that, whatever their crime, puts you dangerously close to their level. I don't think anyone gave the "mental illness" diagnosis here as an excuse for the behavior.<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>But how do you talk like this about Satanism and S&M without sounding like a raving right-wing psycho?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>Good question. I don't expect to find the answer here, but it's good to see the issue being discussed.<br><br>Ice Pirates WAS pretty hilarious. Videodrome is great, but Cronenberg is a bit pessimistic about the human condition for me sometimes, though I do own quite a few of his movies on video. <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thoughtographer>thoughtographer</A> at: 5/24/06 8:49 pm<br></i>
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