Reminder: no personal attacks

[Jeff]

Because it says so.

That doesn't mean we can't have heated debate, but that's not what I call slander, insult and venomous bile. Everybody who's here in good faith should avoid the latter. Thanks.

[wordspeak2]

That's a very sensible rule.

Let's keep the big picture in mind, peoples, really. Same team.

[slimmouse]

That's a very sensible rule.

Let's keep the big picture in mind, peoples, really. Same team.

I had a brief excommunication for my personal insults, and in fairness I deserved it ( no offence taken Cuda)

My only defence is frustration at what this place has become. Lots of "rigour" just as key posters would like it. Zero, and I mean ZERO, intuition. Utopia for the construct. Then again IMHO, this is a long trip (way beyond this lifetime) and so peace and understanding to you all.

What follows is probably off topic, but I need to explain in more detail my thoughts about my frustrations.

With the greatest respect to Jeff and all his endeavours, This forum has gone to dogshit IMHO.

There is no real serious discussion of "out there" issues anymore - At the time I suspect when we need it the most.

Probably a reflection and result of the halcyon days of this place, which mostly occurred just after its initiation. Such freedom of thinking and expression within genuine intellect was never going to be allowed to succeed I guess.

And so, here we are. With exceptions I can count on my hands, the "key" posters appear to form the wet dream of the construct. Sterile/impotent clones - Cartoonists, labellers, assimilated 'radicals' - call them what you will.

An original thought or challenging idea is way beyond their remit - for reasons best known to themselves ( and I mean that most sincerely)

The people have truly outsheeped the sheep.

I guess the thought police won again. I guess you either get that or you dont.

Meanwhile , alll the best SLAD, The consul, Searcher, Sounder, Elihu, Mac, Alice and Co. You know who you are. But then again We all do.

[barracuda]

* Please insert here a witty but non-confrontational point-by-point rebuttal of the above post, containing no animosity or personal attacks, building to a desperate plea for reconciliation, and ending with a sincere and heartfelt shoutout for the return of compared2what?, my favorite poster evah. *

[wordspeak2]

Can't live up to that, Barracuda, but...
While I don't agree with slimmouse's assertion that the board has gone to shit I do agree that there's been a lack of intuition, heavily favoring rigor. In the spirit of the psychedelic/McKenna thread, I note that there's a humongous role for intuition, feeling things out and running with hunches. Without an intuitive spirit one won't get far in psychedelic spaces, imo.

Anyway, though, this is all really happening, the stakes couldn't be higher, and the vast majority of us are very much on the same team. It shouldn't have to be said at all, but at this point maybe it needs to be said daily. And if you need to be reminded that RI -is-your-friend spend some time on a Youtube comment board or a less-friendly Reddit forum. I almost puked this morning over a Reddit thread filled with people defending the Chicago's police's upcoming use of sound cannon weapons that leave people with permanent hearing loss. Hey, if you don't want your ears blown off you shouldn't be at an illegal protest (pretty much). Upvoted 2,000 times. WTF?

[Simulist]

I don't think this forum's gone to "dog shit" at all (it's a wonderful forum, filled with insightful, very bright people), but most of my dearly-held beliefs during RI's so-called "halcyon days" sure as hell have — and that's not all bad. Especially when I consider, in hindsight now, just how embarrassingly simplistic my beliefs were then.

For example, I sincerely believed that our world was being ruled over by a unified, overarching global consortium of a few guys who were all bent on global domination, which they'd largely already achieved — and that these very same guys were themselves ruled over by Lovecraftian entities almost impossible to envision. Now, there are some merits to those fairly intuitive ideas but, taken without the necessary rigor... they're embarrassingly limiting. (Did I say "embarrassing"? I'm sure I did.)

Learning is a lot like walking — if we simply cling to the last stability, we never get anywhere. But if we embrace that previous step for what it is, realizing that it's been only one step, while moving on to the next step of the journey... well, we might.

[sergeant stiletto]

I'm glad to see this.

As a reader/lurker I've noticed an up tick in nastiness.

From the outside looking in there seems to be a bitterness among a handful of members that has taken hold - a sort of "seen it all", "nothing new under the sun" outlook that, as has already been suggested, fuels the rigor and squashes the intuition. Like there is some sort of agreed upon primer that explains all the bullshit and there will be no discussion outside of it.

And certainly no room for much woo anymore.

[Simulist]

Is it that there is "certainly no room for much woo anymore" — and simply that — or is it that there isn't much room for wooishness that can't survive scrutiny?

That would be an important distinction, I think.

[Joe Hillshoist]

I'm glad to see this.

As a reader/lurker I've noticed an up tick in nastiness.

From the outside looking in there seems to be a bitterness among a handful of members that has taken hold - a sort of "seen it all", "nothing new under the sun" outlook that, as has already been suggested, fuels the rigor and squashes the intuition. Like there is some sort of agreed upon primer that explains all the bullshit and there will be no discussion outside of it.

And certainly no room for much woo anymore.

Is it that there is "certainly no room for much woo anymore" — and simply that — or is it that there isn't much room for wooishness that can't survive scrutiny?

That would be an important distinction, I think.

This board is full of intelligent threads about woo that subject it to scrutiny and it survives. No one ads to them tho.

"For example, I sincerely believed that our world was being ruled over by a unified, overarching global consortium of a few guys who were all bent on global domination, which they'd largely already achieved — and that these very same guys were themselves ruled over by Lovecraftian entities almost impossible to envision."

Thats still effectively a good model for the way the world works, and while its not the whole story it certainly isn't false.

The trouble is taking that attitude and living an effective life isn't an easy thing to do. Cos of "as above so below" those things aren't necessarily outside us either, and we probably rule them as much as vice versa and this sort of understanding effectively renders talking about them pointless, cos there are heaps of other models to describe reality that are more empowering and useful.

[Simulist]

This board is full of intelligent threads about woo that subject it to scrutiny and it survives. No one ads to them tho.

You may be right. Why do you think that is?

For example, I sincerely believed that our world was being ruled over by a unified, overarching global consortium of a few guys who were all bent on global domination, which they'd largely already achieved — and that these very same guys were themselves ruled over by Lovecraftian entities almost impossible to envision."

Thats still effectively a good model for the way the world works, and while its not the whole story it certainly isn't false.

Well, like I said, "Now, there are some merits to those fairly intuitive ideas but, taken without the necessary rigor... they're embarrassingly limiting." Limiting also because people tend to get stuck in belief. I certainly did, for a time — and on that very topic — and wound up tenaciously, and rather stupidly I must admit, clinging to that model which, like any model, is necessarily finite. Because here's the thing: I think any model capable of being processed by the human brain is a limited one, by definition, when dealing with a reality that is truly META-physical.

Because as much of the picture as you or I think we can see accurately, the reality is inconceivably bigger still.

The trouble is taking that attitude and living an effective life isn't an easy thing to do. Cos of "as above so below" those things aren't necessarily outside us either, and we probably rule them as much as vice versa and this sort of understanding effectively renders talking about them pointless, cos there are heaps of other models to describe reality that are more empowering and useful.

I may understand your whole meaning here, Joe, but I'm not sure. And I think I'm in agreement with what you're saying — certainly about "as above, so below" and the various many models that are also useful, in one way or another. So I guess I probably need to ask for clarification.

[MayDay]

I don't think this forum's gone to "dog shit" at all (it's a wonderful forum, filled with insightful, very bright people), but most of my dearly-held beliefs during RI's so-called "halcyon days" sure as hell have — and that's not all bad. Especially when I consider, in hindsight now, just how embarrassingly simplistic my beliefs were then.

For example, I sincerely believed that our world was being ruled over by a unified, overarching global consortium of a few guys who were all bent on global domination, which they'd largely already achieved — and that these very same guys were themselves ruled over by Lovecraftian entities almost impossible to envision. Now, there are some merits to those fairly intuitive ideas but, taken without the necessary rigor... they're embarrassingly limiting. (Did I say "embarrassing"? I'm sure I did.)

Learning is a lot like walking — if we simply cling to the last stability, we never get anywhere. But if we embrace that previous step for what it is, realizing that it's been only one step, while moving on to the next step of the journey... well, we might.

Love you, Simulist. Similar thoughts here.

[Joe Hillshoist]

This board is full of intelligent threads about woo that subject it to scrutiny and it survives. No one ads to them tho.

You may be right. Why do you think that is?

Alot of stuff has been covered on this site. Some of it ... well you can't make a rational case and so it just stretches cred. For example to say that while I was tripping balls on shrooms I came across a part of psychic space that seems intimately connected to the MilABS and MC complex ... well for a start it could make light of some serious fucked up stuff that was done to people, but also ... what empirical basis do I have to make that comment? How can it be anything other than a cause for stress and an unproductive avenue of exploration.

Some epic threads on the WOO attracted some unsavory people and ended up locked too.

And others have reached a point where all that can be said has been till someone with a genuinely new perspective comes along and finds them.

For example, I sincerely believed that our world was being ruled over by a unified, overarching global consortium of a few guys who were all bent on global domination, which they'd largely already achieved — and that these very same guys were themselves ruled over by Lovecraftian entities almost impossible to envision."

Thats still effectively a good model for the way the world works, and while its not the whole story it certainly isn't false.

Well, like I said, "Now, there are some merits to those fairly intuitive ideas but, taken without the necessary rigor... they're embarrassingly limiting." Limiting also because people tend to get stuck in belief. I certainly did, for a time — and on that very topic — and wound up tenaciously, and rather stupidly I must admit, clinging to that model which, like any model, is necessarily finite. Because here's the thing: I think any model capable of being processed by the human brain is a limited one, by definition, when dealing with a reality that is truly META-physical.

Because as much of the picture as you or I think we can see accurately, the reality is inconceivably bigger still.

The trouble is taking that attitude and living an effective life isn't an easy thing to do. Cos of "as above so below" those things aren't necessarily outside us either, and we probably rule them as much as vice versa and this sort of understanding effectively renders talking about them pointless, cos there are heaps of other models to describe reality that are more empowering and useful.

I may understand your whole meaning here, Joe, but I'm not sure. And I think I'm in agreement with what you're saying — certainly about "as above, so below" and the various many models that are also useful, in one way or another. So I guess I probably need to ask for clarification.

I think, judging by what you said that our ideas are pretty close.

I totally agree with that bit I made turn yellow, for example.

I do also think there is a feedback loop between people using power to abuse other people, egregores and political power. However there are probably more effective ways of dealing with this that don't involve invoking that model of whats happening. A lot of the people who got that esoteric stuff don't post here as much or at all anymore. So perhaps the conversation is abit more fraught.

[Joe Hillshoist]

I'm glad to see this.

As a reader/lurker I've noticed an up tick in nastiness.

From the outside looking in there seems to be a bitterness among a handful of members that has taken hold - a sort of "seen it all", "nothing new under the sun" outlook that, as has already been suggested, fuels the rigor and squashes the intuition. Like there is some sort of agreed upon primer that explains all the bullshit and there will be no discussion outside of it.

And certainly no room for much woo anymore.

I think there's a lot less nastiness and a lot less aggro here. Perhaps abrasiveness is a better term than nastiness.

I personally don't like the way some people interpret personal abuse but that'll have to wait to another post cos right now I'm kind of busy.

[gnosticheresy_2]

Re: da woo

I think that when the board was young (oh those halcyon days! ) and Jeff was blogging a lot of what was discussed was like an aggregation of existing historical material that only because of the internet could be now chewed over, pulled apart, connected to other bits and pieces by multiple people almost real time. But you can only do this once really, as, say for example the incident at Fatima only happened once, so once the community has had it's wicked way with the evidence, thrashed out opinions, argued, flounced off, come back argued again and finally got bored nobody is going to revisit the topic unless there is a major new development. In comparison the less estoric/ (para) political end of things just keeps on going, especially now things are quite obviously falling apart, so that's what gets discussed.

We need new woo!

[seemslikeadream]

we need new woo....new people.... that ain't gonna happen when it appears that some people here know everything.... riddicule/belittle/bullie/set traps....what person wants to join in and post something out of the ordinary fearing the rath of the knowitalls....when one comes here and sees a thread with 80 pages it appears to be the most important RI subject and no other topic is really of much interest or concern.....it appears there is no room for a mistake, a misspeak. You are not as smart as us so just go away or you must be a troll out to destroy this board...I see a couple posters only come out to post trash about others...never posting anything of interest.....only keeping RI free of the lowlifes



that thread did more damage here than any one single poster ever could....but ya can't ban a thread can ya?

well there used to be a fire pit?