Hollywood Scripting

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Hollywood Scripting

Postby jingofever » Wed May 16, 2012 4:41 am

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Goad much? What part of "no personal atttacks" that Jeff just posted don't you understand?

I thought I was enforcing the slandering clause.
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:That doesn't even make sense, "because you know a lot of posters here are fans of his work."

It makes perfect sense. You know you can get a reaction here by slandering Philip K Dick. I assume that was your intention, unless you somehow know that he really was the CIA's favorite sci-fi operator. Even assuming the meager 'evidence' you assembled is accurate it tells us nothing of how the CIA viewed him relative to other writers. You threw that line in to provoke.
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Ok, I'll put even more info in the thread you are trying to negate. But do behave.

I will do no such thing, crank.
User avatar
jingofever
 
Posts: 2814
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:24 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hollywood Scripting

Postby Searcher08 » Wed May 16, 2012 5:30 am

Hugh, first Milton Erickson.
Would you provide some specific example of where you identify a specific Ericksonian hypnosis technique(s) used in a media/psyops context?

Disclosure:
Familiar with them as I have used them in both coaching, personal development contexts and on the receiving end in hypnotherapy.

Second
Please expand on how and why bassists, reggae and dub are connected to Al-CIAda any more than adverts for HomeBase

or psytrance?
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hollywood Scripting

Postby peartreed » Wed May 16, 2012 9:04 am

After reviewing this thread and others, contemplating the conspiracies we conceive around us, I thought I’d share some little insights that will also likely change as I lurch through this laughtrack we call living.

I had thought I had it mostly figured out after my own karma ran over my dogma and left a mess of mysteries on my meandering roadway of life.

But I’ve eventually realized that our individual levels of personal paranoia determine how many spooks we sense in the shadows scripting our lives.

Some of us have allowed not only key words but our own keen senses and key insights to be hijacked by imaginatively-magnified hidden forces deflecting our ability to discern the details behind daily events and the darker forces accurately.

Some who hung out here happily with us have recently vacated this valued venue vexated by the vacuous venting of other visitors who simply like to vandalize revelations they didn’t arrive at themselves. The ambiance has eroded by that.

It’s a shame there’s always some sadistic snake sneaking through the sidelines just waiting to pounce with poisoned points, but life’s a jungle with an evil underbelly.

The point of this thread was to discuss the degree of damage done by he alphabet agencies and their elusive agents in adding their agenda to our entertainment. It seems to me we have again danced in a circle, each contributing some amazing moves, a few faltering mis-steps and some fascinating subtle choreography and soundtracks to study further, but we’ve essentially arrived back at the beginning, a bit beaten up by the exercise.

I’ve even been reminded it has all been done before, most recently in the summer of 2010. Reading that thread revealed many of the same tangled knots tied up here. Yet I suppose the satisfaction comes from knitting the patterns, as a process of creating meaning in the art of discovery, and still not becoming unraveled by the needles and the pricks.

So thanks for your patience and perseverance in this sewing circle and dance class - and group therapy in the theatres of the mind.
User avatar
peartreed
 
Posts: 536
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:20 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hollywood Scripting

Postby Marie Laveau » Wed May 16, 2012 9:11 am

ah, alliteration. Always attractive and absolutely authoritative!

Awesome attempt. ;)
Marie Laveau
 
Posts: 547
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:17 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hollywood Scripting

Postby norton ash » Wed May 16, 2012 9:17 am

No time for research or linkage, but I understand that the re-make of Red Dawn was originally scripted as a Chinese invasion of the USA. Then Hollywood realized that wouldn't be good for business and international relations. So now it's apparently been written as North Korea invading the USA.

How the fuck would North Korea stage an effective land invasion of the USA? I mean, if you're going to have paratroopers landing in schoolyards and the Wolverines hiding in ravines from helicopter gunships and all that, like in the original. But somehow it's North Korea doing it.

This is your task, screenwriter. Do not fail.
Zen horse
User avatar
norton ash
 
Posts: 4067
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Canada
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hollywood Scripting

Postby Searcher08 » Wed May 16, 2012 9:21 am

ALIENS
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hollywood Scripting

Postby beeblebrox » Wed May 16, 2012 10:07 am

norton ash wrote:No time for research or linkage, but I understand that the re-make of Red Dawn was originally scripted as a Chinese invasion of the USA. Then Hollywood realized that wouldn't be good for business and international relations. So now it's apparently been written as North Korea invading the USA.

How the fuck would North Korea stage an effective land invasion of the USA? I mean, if you're going to have paratroopers landing in schoolyards and the Wolverines hiding in ravines from helicopter gunships and all that, like in the original. But somehow it's North Korea doing it.

This is your task, screenwriter. Do not fail.


Yeah, that's pretty weak. I miss the good old days when we made no bones about the fact that the Russians were our enemies and we had no problem portraying them as such in our propaganda. Now we have to add an additional layer of propaganda to conceal the true purpose and meaning of the originally intended propaganda.

Mabye Number 2 was right, there is no world anymore there is only corporations.
Image

Just joking BTW.
Last edited by beeblebrox on Wed May 16, 2012 11:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
beeblebrox
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:52 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hollywood Scripting

Postby Searcher08 » Wed May 16, 2012 10:49 am

:sun: Have you ever gone back to the beginning of when you first posted, and read some of your own posts in chrono order. It is a really thought provoking process - it sort of shows oneself in the very best and very worst lights, with in my case spending entire weeks engaged in ferocious life or death battles with Alice over the word 'zionazi', and with inordinate numbers of posts indicating that "Thanks for that, it was really interesting"

As Steven Covey memorably wrote, no one on their deathbed wishes they spent more time at the office... John Grinder led quite an engaged virtual life, then one day decided to give it up. When I asked him why, he said (paraphrasing from memory)
"The richness and variation of the sensory world of nature and human communication is at once more mysterious, enchanting and engaging when experienced directly rather than inter-mediated through a digital filter"

There is a procedure from Quality Control called the Five Why's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Whys

A question hangs in the air "Why do we post?"

If one looks at many of the informational threads posted here, it is extremely rare to see any form of outcome for them that can be stated in a form that can be verified as to whether it was actually achieved not...

Which is interesting around Hugh, because I think from the frame of exposition, the majority of people here disagree with the majority of his KWH statements the majority of the time. If you think your way of seeing media is valuable, then teaching others to be able to replicate the beliefs and capabilities and worldview that you have (like an apprenticeship) is required, as otherwise you yourself may see it but no one else will. In fact I would say that part of having a well-formed body of knowledge with some integrity / cohesiveness to it , is that it is CAPABLE of being 'modeled'.
In this way, knowledge is perhaps a very social thing - it may EXIST in the isolation of it's discoverer, but only really LIVES when it is shared and linked to the knowledge and mental maps of the wider community.

As Mr Foxman said in the "Defamation" movie "We have LESS power than THEY imagine, and MORE power than WE think. And we play that hand as best as we can"
And I think that is a very astute and useful metaframe for looking at the impact of the psyops / propaganda process within Hollywood scriptwriting.



peartreed wrote:After reviewing this thread and others, contemplating the conspiracies we conceive around us, I thought I’d share some little insights that will also likely change as I lurch through this laughtrack we call living.

I had thought I had it mostly figured out after my own karma ran over my dogma and left a mess of mysteries on my meandering roadway of life.

But I’ve eventually realized that our individual levels of personal paranoia determine how many spooks we sense in the shadows scripting our lives.

Some of us have allowed not only key words but our own keen senses and key insights to be hijacked by imaginatively-magnified hidden forces deflecting our ability to discern the details behind daily events and the darker forces accurately.

Some who hung out here happily with us have recently vacated this valued venue vexated by the vacuous venting of other visitors who simply like to vandalize revelations they didn’t arrive at themselves. The ambiance has eroded by that.

It’s a shame there’s always some sadistic snake sneaking through the sidelines just waiting to pounce with poisoned points, but life’s a jungle with an evil underbelly.

The point of this thread was to discuss the degree of damage done by he alphabet agencies and their elusive agents in adding their agenda to our entertainment. It seems to me we have again danced in a circle, each contributing some amazing moves, a few faltering mis-steps and some fascinating subtle choreography and soundtracks to study further, but we’ve essentially arrived back at the beginning, a bit beaten up by the exercise.

I’ve even been reminded it has all been done before, most recently in the summer of 2010. Reading that thread revealed many of the same tangled knots tied up here. Yet I suppose the satisfaction comes from knitting the patterns, as a process of creating meaning in the art of discovery, and still not becoming unraveled by the needles and the pricks.

So thanks for your patience and perseverance in this sewing circle and dance class - and group therapy in the theatres of the mind.
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hollywood Scripting

Postby peartreed » Wed May 16, 2012 11:40 am

Searcher08:

Applause for that profound and provocative reply post.

While fondling my forehead to forcibly formulate a focus for my philosophy I found only a litter of irrational reasoning.

Ergo – alliteration – a creative cosmetic to cover confusion.

But admitting to such an artifice would only allow quibbling critics to conveniently and quixotically quote it back.

So I keep my compositions couched in carefully-crafted customs, conventions and characteristics that conceal or curtail the conceit of actually containing any content a cut above cursory confabulation.

peartreed
User avatar
peartreed
 
Posts: 536
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:20 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hollywood Scripting

Postby Stephen Morgan » Wed May 16, 2012 12:35 pm

jingofever wrote:It makes perfect sense. You know you can get a reaction here by slandering Philip K Dick. I assume that was your intention, unless you somehow know that he really was the CIA's favorite sci-fi operator. Even assuming the meager 'evidence' you assembled is accurate it tells us nothing of how the CIA viewed him relative to other writers. You threw that line in to provoke.


There's a case to be made, even if Hugh didn't. He was almost certainly involved with the FBI, he thought he was being zapped with psychotronic weapons and, being a patriot, blamed it on the KGB. He may have been in use by the CIA, even if unwittingly.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
User avatar
Stephen Morgan
 
Posts: 3736
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:37 am
Location: England
Blog: View Blog (9)

Re: Hollywood Scripting

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Wed May 16, 2012 2:52 pm

"Hollywood Scripting" is a pretty perfect lens through which to examine this complex of topics. Associative Universe vs. Black Iron Prison. PKD belongs here, too. So does Charlie Kaufman.

Image

Hypothesis: The biggest PsyOps godfather manipulating the modern film industry is Fucking Robert McKee. "Story," right? The inescapable Bible of Hollywood style. I've recently invoked the "learned helplessness" primate experiments of G.R. Stephenson, and Hugh has related this kind of status-quo cultural intertia to Varela's concept of "autopoesis" ... "how systems replicate themselves." Of course, if you turn to the folks at the Santa Fe Institute, you'll get a whole other set of answers for how systems replicate themselves...just like the University of Chicago's economics department...just like Birkbeck & Tavistock or whatever SRI's marketing department evolved into today....let's get some popcorn and watch Chomsky argue with Fukuyama on the big screen, shall we?

Binary Traps are hell on human cognition but they make for great plot devices. We're trapped inside our own stories so a close examination of scripts is far more than just a weird tangent. It's hard for me to write clearly, because there's so much under the hood here. This is where Jung's archetype theory meets the bland MBA language of Branding, with an ocean of Hegelian gibberish between them. The point I was trying to make in "Down Here in the Cave" was that we are, from footnoted parapolitics to feverish WOO, primarily engaged in storytelling rather than factual analysis. I didn't and don't mean that as a dismissal, just a diagnosis, I think it's a fairly inescapable facet of this human condition.

These narrative blindspots are precisely what makes PsyOps possible. (Perhaps that's vastly overstated, so I'll let that one float.)

Image

Coincidences happen; so does plagarism. MK references don't entail MK connections, merely exposure to MK material and a willingness to pilfer inspiration wholesale. The testimony of Candy Jones has gone from a personal story to a collective myth. I don't think that's a good thing but I don't view it morally, either, this is just how narratives get dispersed into culture, isn't it? All our legends were lives at some point, all our scary tales were perfectly real traumas at some point, too. What's stranger still is when that causality gets reversed, like Edgar Allen Poe's Richard Parker -- an example that precludes CIA involvement, conveniently. Even stranger than that is Tau Allen Greenfield's "Secret Cipher" material, or any of the Thelemite tentacles Jeff has already explored here, or...

...coincidences happen; so do miracles. Monumentally improbable events do take place. Despite that, conspiracies are far more commonplace than coincidences. This leaves us with a question of mechanics, and that question cannot be resolved -- as many have observed, there isn't much documentation for covert operations and procedures available to us. We do have scripts, though, and we do have an IMDB level of granular detail on every Hollywood psy-op. I have high hopes for this thread, I dream of a better tomorrow where this can outgrow Hugh himself and built itself into something more playful and productive. There's no shortage of raw material here.
User avatar
Wombaticus Rex
 
Posts: 10896
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Vermontistan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hollywood Scripting

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed May 16, 2012 8:38 pm

peartreed wrote:.....
I’ve eventually realized that our individual levels of personal paranoia determine how many spooks we sense in the shadows scripting our lives.
.....
.....

Back to the tired 'paranoia' line again?
Was this really just an elaboration likelihood model exercise to declare 'back where we started' with those minimizing circular images?

Funny, I get my info on spooks from research.

The Pentagon has an interesting manual for propaganda analysis. An interesting read, if you get your hands on it as I did.
Seems they do it by scrutinizing keywords, themes, images, timing, context, intended audience....again, no surprise.

For those interested in history instead of alliteration-
http://www.amazon.com/Hollywood-Goes-Wa ... 0520071611

Image

Hollywood Goes to War: How Politics, Profits and Propaganda Shaped World War II Movies
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
User avatar
Hugh Manatee Wins
 
Posts: 9869
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: in context
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hollywood Scripting

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed May 16, 2012 8:44 pm

Searcher08 wrote:Hugh, first Milton Erickson.
Would you provide some specific example of where you identify a specific Ericksonian hypnosis technique(s) used in a media/psyops context?
.....


Note that "indirect suggestion" is also a goal of that list of methods I posted, not just "trance."
And video viewing involves both ends of that spectrum.

And I emphasized the elements of the list that are in all scripts.
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
User avatar
Hugh Manatee Wins
 
Posts: 9869
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: in context
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hollywood Scripting

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed May 16, 2012 9:10 pm

Wombaticus Rex wrote:.....
Coincidences happen; so does plagarism.
.....
...coincidences happen; so do miracles. Monumentally improbable events do take place.
[
I hoped that by showing the planning of the decoy marketing around the Bravo-Caste/Rongelap Relocation being
blown away by the inescapable Fukushima melt-down right in the middle of the marketing campaign....would show
that planning is done and things happen, too.

Despite that, conspiracies are far more commonplace than coincidences.[

Far far more. Many many more spooks and spook-enabled criminal assets and proxies.
Growing all the time. Not diminishing. And with more and more to be hidden by the dedicated psyops class maintaing 'Stability Operations.'


This leaves us with a question of mechanics, and that question cannot be resolved -- as many have observed, there isn't much documentation for covert operations and procedures available to us.

No, there's lots. If you know where to look-

One of the most succinct sources is the 'Dear Owen' letters from a Hollywood CIA mole back to CIA HQ in 1953.
Was online for years but got taken down recently.

1) Military manuals on psyops and other doctrines. They declare TV and movies to be perfect for psyops.
2) Academic books and papers on propaganda, cognition, marketing and social sciences
3) 100 year history of military and propaganda doctrines developed, lots of it overt cuz we'd never think it applied to us
4) 1970s Congressional hearings dumping limited hang-outs from which to extrapolate with the help of
5) Whistleblowers publishing and testifiying.
6) Academics publishing
7) Independent researchers putting it out online etc.

We do have scripts, though,

Tons of scripts.
And when you know how to read them as the intelligence documents they really are, you learn astounding things.

Image
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
User avatar
Hugh Manatee Wins
 
Posts: 9869
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: in context
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hollywood Scripting

Postby lupercal » Wed May 16, 2012 11:39 pm

Wombaticus Rex wrote:The point I was trying to make in "Down Here in the Cave" was that we are, from footnoted parapolitics to feverish WOO, primarily engaged in storytelling rather than factual analysis. I didn't and don't mean that as a dismissal, just a diagnosis, I think it's a fairly inescapable facet of this human condition.

I think there's a lot of truth to that, and to the rest of your post, to the degree that a lot of intel operations will probably never yield a letter-from-Joseph-Breen directive spelling out exactly what dialogue had to be emended how, though it's not impossible that some kind of archive will eventually emerge. Meanwhile we're left to construct our own accident vs. intention narratives, true, but on the other hand some narratives hold more water than others, and familiarity with the territory such as HMW has acquired does I think allow him a privileged insight into what's going on. But intuition is going to have to play a part of it at least for the time being and intuition isn't always right, no.
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:For those interested in history instead of alliteration - http://www.amazon.com/Hollywood-Goes-Wa ... 0520071611

from the Amazon summary:
Ironically, it was the film industry's own self-censorship system, the Hays Office and the Production Code Administration, that paved the way for government censors to cut and shape movies to portray an idealized image of a harmonious American society united in the fight against a common enemy.

That's more or less how it seems to have gone down: the spooks took over after helping put Breen out to pasture.
User avatar
lupercal
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 176 guests