[social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

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Re: [social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

Postby Forgetting2 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:00 pm

JackRiddler wrote:
Forgetting2 wrote:It seems to me the fear of becoming zombie is a big emotional part of the stories. Fear of continuity without knowing, maybe.


True enough, but I think an equal part belongs to the desire to become a zombie, or the recognition that we are, in many ways, already zombies. And we'd like to have the excuse that there's no helping it.

But mostly I think it's speaking to the apparently widespread fantasy of being able to justifiably and individually kill everyone, every last motherfucker making you feel crowded in mass society, without regard to age, creed, color or ideology. As MacC said, I think, and I agree with his take.


Yeah, I don't think they're exclusive ideas. Maybe even complimentary. Like pretzels at a bar. Have some pretzels so you can keep drinking. I've met a lot of zombies in bars. They scare me, but I keep going back. And once in a while I become a zombie.

I'm still trying to parse out that Derrick Jensen quote above... Do the people who are actually human and trying to stop the zombies know that what they're trying to stop with gardening and recycling is zombies? Doesn't that make them zombies with an appetite disorder?
You know what you finally say, what everybody finally says, no matter what? I'm hungry. I'm hungry, Rich. I'm fuckin' starved. -- Cutter's Way
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Re: [social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

Postby Jeff » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:40 pm

Forgetting2 wrote:I'm still trying to parse out that Derrick Jensen quote above... Do the people who are actually human and trying to stop the zombies know that what they're trying to stop with gardening and recycling is zombies? Doesn't that make them zombies with an appetite disorder?


I don't know if Jensen's saying it makes them zombies. His zombies are mindless planet eaters (i.e., most of us). But simply absenting yourself from that behaviour doesn't make you a scourge of zombies.

And this is beneficial journalism:

Magnotta, cannibalism not the best news for families to share

How do you explain cannibals to your kids?
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Re: [social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

Postby Forgetting2 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:52 pm

Jeff wrote:
Forgetting2 wrote:I'm still trying to parse out that Derrick Jensen quote above... Do the people who are actually human and trying to stop the zombies know that what they're trying to stop with gardening and recycling is zombies? Doesn't that make them zombies with an appetite disorder?


I don't know if Jensen's saying it makes them zombies. His zombies are mindless planet eaters (i.e., most of us). But simply absenting yourself from that behaviour doesn't make you a scourge of zombies.

And this is beneficial journalism:

Magnotta, cannibalism not the best news for families to share

How do you explain cannibals to your kids?


No mention of Grimm's Fairy Tales.
You know what you finally say, what everybody finally says, no matter what? I'm hungry. I'm hungry, Rich. I'm fuckin' starved. -- Cutter's Way
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Re: [social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

Postby brekin » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:49 pm

I pity the group of people that start getting likened to zombies.


World War Z


World War Z is an upcoming post-apocalyptic horror film based on the novel of the same name by Max Brooks. The film is directed by Marc Forster and stars Brad Pitt, with a script written by J. Michael Straczynski and Matthew Michael Carnahan. World War Z follows U.N. worker Gerry Lane, as he searches the globe for information that can stop the zombie outbreak that is bringing down nations.[2] The film is scheduled to be released on June 21, 2013.

Development

After a bidding war with Leonardo DiCaprio's production company Appian Way, Brad Pitt's Plan B Entertainment secured the screen rights to the novel in 2007.[12] The screenplay was written by Babylon 5 and Rising Stars creator J. Michael Straczynski, who identified the challenge in adapting the work as "creating a main character out of a book that reads as a UN Report on the zombie wars".[13] Marc Forster signed on to direct, and described the film as reminiscent of 1970s conspiracy thrillers like All the President's Men.[14] Straczynski, however, identified 2002 spy film The Bourne Identity as an appropriate comparison, and noted that the film will have a large international scope which maintains the political emphasis.[15]

When asked about his involvement with the film, Brooks stated that he had "zero control", but favored a role for Brad Pitt,[16] and expressed approval for Straczynski as screenwriter.[17][18] In an interview with Fangoria, Brooks said, "I can't give it away, but Straczynski found a way to tie it all together. The last draft I read was amazing."[19]

An early script was leaked onto the internet in 2008. Ain't It Cool News reviewed the script in March 2008, and said "This isn't just a good adaptation of a difficult book... it's a genre-defining piece of work that could well see us all arguing about whether or not a zombie movie qualifies as 'Best Picture' material".[20] The review also noted the film appears stylistically similar to Children of Men.[20] According to Ain't It Cool News, the film follows Gerry Lane as he travels the post-war world and interviews survivors of the zombie war who are "starting to wonder if survival is a victory of any kind." One of the first interviews is with Dr. Tsai, the first to encounter the zombies.[20]

Straczynski had hoped that the film would begin production by the start of 2009.[15] Forster, however, told IGN in March 2009 that the script was still in development and he was not sure if World War Z would be his next film.[21] Later in March, rumors surfaced that production offices were set up and the film was in early pre-production.[22] In June 2009, Marc Forster told an interviewer that the film would be delayed, stating that the film's script still needs a lot of development and is "still far from realization".[23]

In July 2009, Brooks revealed to Fangoria that the script is currently being re-written by Matthew Michael Carnahan. Brooks believes this "shows [the producer's] confidence in this project" because of the amount of money that was being invested in it.[24] Paramount Pictures and UTV Motion Pictures announced at the 2010 Comic-Con that Forster is set as director, and Brad Pitt has been confirmed to play the lead role.[25]

In March 2011, it was reported that Paramount was searching for co-financier, and would likely pull the plug on the adaptation without one.[1] The article also stated that "an eleventh-hour effort is being made to court frequent Paramount co-financier David Ellison." A week later, Deadline.com reported that "hot and heavy talks are going on with David Ellison's Skydance and as many as two other financiers."[26]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_Z_%28film%29

Here's concept art of a World War Z zombie prostitute.

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Re: [social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

Postby justdrew » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:52 pm

this url says it all, check it out :ohwh

http://laughingsquid.com/zombie-garden-gnomes/


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Re: [social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:40 am

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Re: [social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

Postby elfismiles » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:51 pm

FLASHBACK! :partyhat

"Zombie Virus" Possible via Rabies-Flu Hybrid?
Ker Than for National Geographic News
Published October 27, 2010
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... s-science/

New, Fast-Evolving Rabies Virus Found -- And Spreading
Anne Minard for National Geographic News
May 4, 2009
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... ution.html
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Re: [social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:47 pm

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Re: [social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

Postby vanlose kid » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:32 am

can't have a thread on zombie fascination without going into the role of "zombies" as a concept in science and philosophy. it's like JR says: according the those in the know, we're all zombies. (saves a lot of trouble with ethics and all that guff.) people who think we're more than zombies are of course deluded, i.e. haven't sworn on the right books.

Zombies
First published Mon Sep 8, 2003; substantive revision Thu Mar 17, 2011

Zombies in philosophy are imaginary creatures used to illuminate problems about consciousness and its relation to the physical world. Unlike those in films or witchraft, they are exactly like us in all physical respects but without conscious experiences: by definition there is ‘nothing it is like’ to be a zombie. Yet zombies behave just like us, and some even spend a lot of time discussing consciousness.

Few people think zombies actually exist. But many hold they are at least conceivable, and some that they are possible. It is argued that if zombies are so much as a bare possibility, then physicalism is false and some kind of dualism is true. For many philosophers that is the chief importance of the zombie idea. But the idea is also of interest for its presuppositions about the nature of consciousness and how the physical and the phenomenal are related. Use of the zombie idea against physicalism also raises more general questions about relations between imaginability, conceivability, and possibility. Finally, zombies raise epistemological difficulties: they reinstate the ‘other minds’ problem.

[...]

1. The idea of zombies

Descartes held that non-human animals are automata: their behavior is wholly explicable in terms of physical mechanisms. He explored the idea of a machine which looked and behaved like a human being. Knowing only seventeenth century technology, he thought two things would unmask such a machine: it could not use language creatively, and it could not produce appropriate non-verbal behavior in arbitrarily various situations (Discourse V). For him, therefore, no machine could behave like a human being. He concluded that explaining distinctively human behavior required something beyond the physical: an immaterial mind, interacting with processes in the brain and the rest of the body. (He had a priori arguments for the same conclusion, one of which foreshadows the ‘conceivability argument’ discussed below.) If he is right, there could not be a world physically like the actual world but lacking such minds: human bodies would not work properly. If we suddenly lost our minds our bodies might continue to run on for a while: our hearts might continue to beat, we might breathe while asleep and digest food; we might even walk or sing in a mindless sort of way (so he implies in his Reply to Objections IV). But without the contribution made by minds, behavior could not show characteristically human features. So although Descartes did everything short of spelling out the idea of zombies, the question of their possibility did not arise for him. The nearest thing was automata whose behavior was easily recognizable as not fully human.

In the nineteenth century scientists began to think that physics was capable of explaining all physical events that were explicable at all. It seemed that every physical effect has a physical cause: that the physical world is ‘closed under causation’. The developing science of neurophysiology was set to extend such explanations to human behavior. But if human behavior is explicable physically, how does consciousness fit into the story? One response — physicalism (or materialism) — is to insist that it is just a matter of physical processes. However, the phenomena of consciousness are hard to account for in those terms, and some thinkers concluded that nonphysical items must be involved. Given the causal closure of the physical, they were also forced to conclude that consciousness has no effects on the physical world. On this view human beings are ‘conscious automata’, as T. H. Huxley put it: all physical events, human behavior included, are explicable in terms of physical processes; and the phenomena of consciousness are causally inert by-products (see James 1890, Chapter 5). It eventually became clear that this view entailed there could be purely physical organisms exactly like us except for lacking consciousness. G. F. Stout (1931) argued that if epiphenomenalism (the more familiar name for the ‘conscious automaton’ theory) is right,

it ought to be quite credible that the constitution and course of nature would be otherwise just the same as it is if there were not and never had been any experiencing individuals. Human bodies would still have gone through the motions of making and using bridges, telephones and telegraphs, of writing and reading books, of speaking in Parliament, of arguing about materialism, and so on. There can be no doubt that this is prima facie incredible to Common Sense (138f.).


What Stout describes in this passage and finds prima facie incredible is a zombie world: an entire world whose physical processes are closed under causation (as the epiphenomenalists he was attacking held) and exactly duplicate those in the actual world, but where there are no conscious experiences.

Similar ideas were current in discussions of physicalism in the 1970s. As a counterexample to the psychophysical identity theory there was an ‘imitation man’, whose ‘brain-states exactly paralleled ours in their physico-chemical properties’ but who felt no pains and saw no colors (Campbell 1970). It was claimed that zombies are a counterexample to physicalism in general, and arguments were devised to back up the intuition that they are possible (Kirk 1974a, 1974b). Other kinds of systems were envisaged which behaved like normal human beings, or were even functionally like human beings, but lacked the ‘qualia’ we have (Block 1980a, 1980b, 1981; Shoemaker 1975, 1981). (Qualia are those properties of experiences or of whole persons by which we are able to classify experiences according to ‘what they are like’ — what it is like to smell roasting coffee beans, for example. Even physicalists can consistently use this expression, although unlike dualists they take qualia to be physical. The most systematic use of the zombie idea against physicalism is by David Chalmers (1996), some of whose contributions to the debate will be discussed below.

If zombies are to be counterexamples to physicalism, it is not enough for them to be behaviorally and functionally like normal human beings: physicalists can accept that merely behavioral or functional duplicates of ourselves might lack qualia. Zombies must be like normal human beings in all physical respects, with the physical properties that physicalists suppose we have. (For the use of a different kind of zombies in epistemology, see Lyons 2009.) This requires them to be subject to the causal closure of the physical, which is why their supposed lack of consciousness is a challenge to physicalism. If, instead, their behavior could not be explained physically, physicalists would point out that in that case we have no reason to bother with the idea: there is plenty of evidence that our movements actually are explicable in physical terms, as the original epiphenomenalists realized (see e.g. Papineau 2002).

The usual assumption is that none of us is actually a zombie, and that zombies cannot exist in our world. The central question, however, is not whether zombies can exist in our world, but whether they, or a whole zombie world (which is sometimes a more appropriate idea to work with), are possible in some broader sense.

[...]

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/zombies/


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http://consc.net/zombies.html

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Re: [social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

Postby vanlose kid » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:03 am

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Re: [social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

Postby StarmanSkye » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:24 am

8bitagent wrote:
"Well a real life "zombie" outbreak would simply be some sort of extremely potent synthetic mixture put into random batches of popular street drug as a trial balloon to make people literally lose their minds and start acting psychotic/violent. (ie: miami attack)

But my point I was making is that in a post 9/11-post Nick Berg video world, the nasty would really have to be amped up. I remember on another para-political forum years ago people were wondering what the "next 9/11" would look like...many thinking nuclear. I offered it may simply be a small group of hostage takers committing a grizzly sort of live snuff film on tv against perhaps powerful or well known people; or something akin to Beslan. In that the horror isn't simply an abstract."
****

Wowie Zowie, 8bit -- That really suddenly made a thought jell; A chilling scenario that isn't beyond the likely means, motive and opportunity of any of a half-dozen-or-more domination-and-psyop oriented groups including Deep State US and foreign Mil/sec, Secret Society Globalists, MIC, private contractor, intel, pharma, blackop mercs, Global PR-management event agencies, organized crime associations, meta-gang societies, Transnational conglomerates, -- and combinations of, etc.

Basically, the same usual suspects who are the world's leading versions of false-flag & proxy war provocateurs, elite trans-state terrorists, right/left-wing idealogue extremists, fanatical religious nutzoids, criminal cartel franchises with MIC connections, private disaster-capitalist corporations, and so on. Monster-thugs who have no compunction against using such devious, evil means to accomplish their social-engineering and psychosocial management/populationn control/world empire ends.

IMO, this is a Lot less fantastic than a LOT of other elaborately-dreadful & frightening conspiracy ops theories floating around.

Eh?

That is:
A slow-evolving psychotic-mind-altering chemical soup-base product in an inert stage that was formulated to be mixed-in with a variety of vaccines, street-drugs, IV, IM & oral medications, even food and liquid refreshments so it can be secretly administered to target populations and quantity ingested slowly accumulated in time -- perhaps designed to be switched-on or activated by administering another drug formulae so on-cue it goes 'active' -- causing those symptoms you described in those infected to become hyperactively violent, acting impulsively, deranged and with great forcefulness, committing sudden assaults and terrific outrages on strangers or associates -- spreading a media-amplified collective angst, exaggerated fear and dreadlike terror -- the human monster 'others' reflecting zombie-like rambling modes of cursed 'possession' states of mindless passivity & confusion alternating with terrible wrathful rages, lightning-like reflex aggressions, drooling madness, loss of awareness & memory, vanishing sense of identity and self-consciousness, paralysis, acute horror, excrutiating pain, etc. -- and as you describe.

Perhaps having some association with the brain-wasting disease caused by prions, or with morgellons disease, maybe designed to complement it or another organic disease or condition like senility, amnesia, criminal insanity, loss of volition, loss of conscience or will ...

You get the picture, I think.

What if this was part of a secret military-medical program that was being worked on in the late 90s and early 2000 which many microbiologists got wind of and strongly objected to as it didn't look like biowarfare 'defense' but rather a sinister abuse-prone dangerously-risky project -- and so a number were 'dissappeared' or publicly suicided to send a message of warning to like-minded potential whistleblowers ...
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Re: [social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

Postby kelley » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:32 am

re: trending memes etc

zombie summer apocalypse 2012 = summer of shark attacks 2001?

perhaps too early to tell. it's only june, after all, but informed predictions around 'the next 9/11' always seemed to look towards the global economy. the παπούτσι, the scarpa, the sapato, the zapato are all about set to drop within weeks.
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Re: [social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:35 am

Starman there is so much goop in the world that could happen by accident as well.
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Re: [social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

Postby StarmanSkye » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:02 am

By gosh, yer probably right! But then, would that realization maybe inspire the truly wickedly-creative & recklessly-demented to help push the potential for a precursor natural zombie virus-bug along, make it happen faster and on a bigger, wider, more terrible and fearsome scale?

That is pretty common w/ biowarfare disease engineer-inventors, isn't it?

I'm not taking this too seriously, as I'm not very eaqer or good at scaring myself. But I guess some nagging niggling what-if? suspicion will be hiding-out and going along for the ride now in a tiny dark corner of my mind for some little while.

Zombie Apocalypse.
New World Order.
Population Control.
Martial Law.
Free Fire Perimeter.
Mandatory Evacuation.
Fema Camps.
Peak Oil.
Lights Out.
The End of Hope.
The Beginning of Fear.
Freak Out.
Good Bye.
The End.
Time to Die.
Now Now Now
Oh MY!

I think I've seen that movie before!
Bits of The Road come to mind ...
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Re: [social studies] The Zombie fascination in century 20.1

Postby elfismiles » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:19 am

Tks 4 posting that VK ... I had just re-reviewed that text a few months ago on my way home from me and my friends annual "Zombiethon" movie watching weekend party.

Great stuff~! :thumbsup

vanlose kid wrote:can't have a thread on zombie fascination without going into the role of "zombies" as a concept in science and philosophy. it's like JR says: according the those in the know, we're all zombies. (saves a lot of trouble with ethics and all that guff.) people who think we're more than zombies are of course deluded, i.e. haven't sworn on the right books.

Zombies
First published Mon Sep 8, 2003; substantive revision Thu Mar 17, 2011
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/zombies/

[/img]

http://consc.net/zombies.html

*
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