Scottish Independence and the UK State

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Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue May 29, 2012 6:25 am

AhabsOtherLeg wrote:
Joe Hillshoist wrote:
AhabsOtherLeg wrote:Nobody uses "potable" in real life either.


We use it frequently when describing and comparing water sources actually.


Don't get smart.










:lol:

Fair point, though.

Did I ever mention that Scotland has a vast, renewable, and nearly inexhaustible supply of fresh water, btw, while the rest of the UK requires constant and ongoing transfers of H2o to keep itself going?

I maybeshould have mentioned that earlier.


I'm in a bush fire fighting brigade in a drought prone country so its important to know about water and whether sources are potable or not.
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Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State

Postby semper occultus » Tue May 29, 2012 4:16 pm

Fiction of the Tartan Terrorists

Andrew Murray Scott and Iain MacLeay examine a literary genre

www.scottishrepublicansocialistmovement.org

Real life and fiction often imitate each other. Nowhere is this more true than in a number of novels which take their theme the struggle of Scottish nationalists for an Independent Scotland. Few of these novels have adopted the rather mundane political struggle as a subject, preferring to utilise instead the ambience of what has been dubbed “tartan terrorism”. Scotch on the Rocks, the best known of the genre, co-written by the present Conservative Foreign Secretary, Douglas Hurd, as filmed on prime time television at a time of acute political sensitivity.

Our book, Britain’s Secret War, is the first comprehensive study of the real phenomenon known by some as “tartan terrorism” and others as a “war of liberation”. That this clandestine, sporadic war actually took place between 1968 and the present is proved by events which have occurred, included a large number of bombings, bank raids, arson attacks, and even assassination attempts. These events have been parodied in the novels which can loosely be termed a genre. The styles of the books vary, of course, from comic farce to melodrama and sinister thriller.

The questions which need to be asked are: to what extent are these novels merely imaginative fiction and how closely do they parallel what has actually taken place ? Have they had effects other than as stimulating literature ? What effect have they had on the Scots’ consciousness and particularly upon Scots’ perceptions of the political campaign for Independence ? Do they merely imitate what has already happened or do they actually provoke imitation ?

The genre started during the first surge of modern nationalism, partly inspired by the removal of the Stone of Destiny from Westminster Abbey by Ian Hamilton and others in 1950 and the “Great Pillar Box War” when post boxes with the EIIR insignia were blown to bits. The first two books of the genre, Scotching the Snake, by Charles Henry Dand, and The Stone, by Nigel Tranter, both appeared in 1958 and thus were clearly inspired by these earlier events.

Dand’s novel is satirical farce with a mixture of semi-serious political speculation and comic humour. A conspiracy organised by the Sons of the Hills, a collection of youth hostelling boy scouts headed by a leader calling himself the Boss, is infiltrated by a British spy, Cameron, who is almost converted to Scottish nationalism by a clever presentation of arguments in favour of Home Rule.

The kilted nationalist forces gather at Castle X on the Firth of Forth, arm themselves, and move on to Calton Hill for an assault on the Scottish Office. This is successful and Independence is proclaimed. Then, however, the novel degenerates into farce when the Boss is revealed to be unbalanced megalomaniac who advocates the separation of the Scots from their national drink ! This results in the abandonment of the revolution, the Union is saved, and the hero gets the girl. It is all rather good-humoured, far-fetched, and amusing.

Image

The Stone, by Nigel Tranter, is of a considerably higher literary standard. It follows the adventures of a group of patriotic Scots in their attempts to stop the true Stone of Destiny, the Lia Fail, falling into the hands of Oxford archaeologists who intend to send it down to England to join the fake Stone under the Coronation Chair in Westminster Abbey. The patriots, with the help of a group of Highland tinkers, elude a police dragnet to hide the Stone so that it can remain in Scotland for ever.

Image

The next book on the theme was the adventure thriller, The Douglas Affair, by Alastair Mair, which appeared in 1966 and was reprinted the following year, thanks to the success with critics and the public. The central figure, James Douglas, is one of Scotland’s leading industrial magnates and also a patriot. An incident on holiday in Spain, when a Basque extremist is quite casually shot by the Guardia Civil, sets Douglas off on a single-minded crusade for a Scottish Parliament, outflanking the existing nationalist party.

The crusade gathers momentum and looks as though it will succeed public opinion is galvanised, then sinister forces conspire against it and Douglas is killed in a mysterious road accident. Anticipating his own execution, Douglas had nominated a successor – who dies of a heart attack on hearing the news of his promotion. Douglas’s hand-picked committee elect a new leader and nominate a successor to follow him if required, and “the Douglas affair is not yet ended”. The book is never melodramatic and nicely understated, leaving a great deal to the imagination. The same cannot be said for the next book in the genre: Scotch On The Rocks.

Image

By Douglas Hurd and Andrew Osmond, it appeared in 1971 and was reprinted the following year. It was highly successful, its cover embellished with the close-up of the malevolent face of a red-haired Scot half-hidden behind the barrel of a Sten gun, and it quickly became a part of the popular psyche, attracting even more attention (and considerable anger from the SNP) when it was televised by the BBC if five episodes at peak viewing time in 1973 when the SNP were attracting opinion poll ratings of up to 36%. The novel employed a range of Scottish stereotypes, some rather obviously and unflatteringly based on living nationalist leaders. James Henderson, the canny SNP leader, was a composite of several well-known figures, while the impassioned and cranky Mrs Merrilees is a mocking portrait of Wendy Wood, the leader of the “Scottish Patriots” organisation.

The terrorist group, the “Scottish Liberation Army” which links up with the Glasgow razor gangs (miraculously resurrected after 40 years of lingering on the pages of No Mean City) is eventually proved to have communist links and to be funded by “Moscow gold”. The SLA activities include the burning down of St Andrew’s House, the blowing up of the Forth Bridge tolls, and an attack on the Conservative Conference at Blackpool, culminating in the assassination of the Secretary of State for Scotland and the occupying of the Fort William area in a doomed latter-day Jacobite rising – which is snuffed out by some stiff upper-lipped characters such as McNair, the Special Branch agent, straight from the pages of a John Buchan novel.

These activities went far beyond what had yet been attempted by any “tartan terrorist” group, and the narrative thrust was conveyed in such a way that most Scots reader would have identified with the extremists as portrayed. The Dollar Covenant, by Michael Sinclair, appeared in 1980. Unlike Scotch On The Rocks, it was written by a Scot, albeit a fairly anglicised one – Sinclair being the nom-de-plume for Michael Shea – no less a person than press secretary to the Queen ! This astonishing coincidence went almost unnoticed by the public.

The book featured the nightmarish scenario of an Independent Scotland sliding into bankruptcy and chaos. He had cleared the book with the Queen before publication and reported to the press that she had had no qualms about its rather blatant political message. The book did not achieve the enormous sales of its predecessor but was a helpful piece of propaganda masquerading as fiction.


Image

The Lion Is Rampant, by Ross Laidlaw, appeared in 1979, although it is clearly a post-referendum political thriller. The central character, Nicholas Wainwright, is an Englishman recently returned from fighting the Mau-Mau in Kenya; the sort of man who prefers a round of golf to politics, drinks gin and tonics or English beer and only malt whisky when forced to by mad terrorist leaders. In fact, for Wainwright, who stumbles ridiculously easily onto a plot between the leaders of the Scottish Freedom Party – who have just won a General Election – and the USSR, all Scots are either lunatics, fanatics, rogues, or bully-boys; and all speak in hamespun and couthy Scots.

The democratic majority of voters is thus reduced by Wainwright to mob-law, to “dark pent-up forces”, and related to both Nazism and Stalinism. Elements of the Scottish Freedom Party are likened to the brownshirts with their predilection for torture. There are no redeeming features in the new Scotland, Wainwright escapes to alert Whitehall of the plot, is captured, escapes again, and ends up a candidate for “some sort of gong”. With the assistance of NATO and the EEC, Scotland is conquered militarily and ceded to England, while her political leaders go on trial for treason.

It is the sort of novel guaranteed to make most Scottish readers wince with irritation. There is not a single Scottish character who is not portrayed as an ignorant dupe, an insensitive bore, or a sadistic thug. The Lion Is Rampant is certainly the most offensive book of the genre.

The most recent but probably not the last book in the genre is Frederick Lindsay’s Brond, which appeared in 1984. Like Scotch On The Rocks it was televised, on Channel 4, featuring Stratford Johns as the central character Brond, who is a British Intelligence agent. The narrator is a naive young student at Glasgow University and the Glasgow underworld is portrayed quite naturalistically in an otherwise rather elliptical and somewhat complex plot.

Brond was written by Lindsay as an “antidote” to Scotch On The Rocks. Lindsay was a committed SNP activist and wanted to counter the “Anglocentric and Unionist interpretation of Scottish political development where nationalists were depicted as violent thugs or duped individuals”. In this he was clearly successful, depicting a paludal world of suspect loyalties and interrogation which he had gleaned from actual reminiscences of nationalists and republicans in the city who had been suspected or interrogated about the actual events of “tartan terrorism”.

While Lindsay’s motives are clear, what of the motives of Hurd and Osmond ? At the time their book was published, Hurd was Private Secretary to Edward Heath, leader of the opposition, and soon became Home Secretary (and now Foreign Secretary) in Government. While on one level it was simply an exciting political yarn, it was also a sharp attack on the SNP – which is not disguised or fictionalised at all in the novel. Indeed, reviewers of the book sought explicity to relate the novel to the real SNP and to find evidence of SNP links with mystical terrorists armies such as appear in the novel.

Conservative politicians – in, for example, the Dundee East By-Election in 1973 – used the novel as ammunition against the SNP – and quite soon journalists, politicians and other agencies had produced “evidence” of mythical “tartan terrorist” armies to back up their allegations.

(This article first appeared in the Glasgow Herald, Weekender, Saturday 24 November 1990)


......extraordinary....god preserve us from Jeffrey Archer sharpening his pencils in time for 2014...
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Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State

Postby gnosticheresy_2 » Tue May 29, 2012 5:20 pm

AhabsOtherLeg wrote:Did I ever mention that Scotland has a vast, renewable, and nearly inexhaustible supply of fresh water, btw, while the rest of the UK requires constant and ongoing transfers of H2o to keep itself going?

I maybeshould have mentioned that earlier.


ahem, some of the rest of the UK requires constant and ongoing transfers of H2o to keep itself going :)

Kielder Water is a large artificial reservoir in Northumberland in North East England. It is the largest artificial lake in the United Kingdom by capacity and it is surrounded by Kielder Forest, the largest man-made woodland in Europe.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kielder_Water

It's great up there, no mobile connection, no internet and only four channels on the telly. Like being back in the eighties :lol:
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Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State

Postby vanlose kid » Wed May 30, 2012 10:57 am

so may places i could have posted these. just wanted to share.







*
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Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu May 31, 2012 12:40 am

Ahab wrote:Hey, forgot to say, you know what's inscribed on the wall of the Scottish Parliament? I bet you do.

"Work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation."

Indeed. Indeed.


Belatedly: I think the Scottish Parliament building is a disaster. It's one of the most unpleasant new public buildings I have ever ventured into, and all the worse because it makes such a rhetorical* fuss about "invoking" Newness and Openness and Democracy and christ knows fuckin what. It's a dense grim sticky labyrinth, and if it's not positively designed to baffle & disorientate & intimidate the plebs and the tourists then it has some explaining to do, especially because the architects -- with loadsa money (public money) -- were exploiting an incomparably open and airy site.

*The rhetoric is cast in stone, literally. Even Alasdair Gray has been petrified, although he's still alive. "Work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation." - aye, right, that's easy enough to quote, and even easier to petrify, as long as the working class is paying for the petrification, which it did and inevitably does, whether it wants to or not. Suggested alteration: "Work as if you were being paid handsomely to fossilise people who actually give a shit".

Sorry, Ahab, but it really pisses me off. It is at the heart of Scotland, after all, both literally and metaphorically. The building is both symbolic and real, and it's a wilfully ugly maze. Function follows form.

Image
Big lumps with squiggly bits stuck on.


Image
The luxury-favela look.

Image
Democracy: it darkens your way while threatening to fall on your head.

FFS!
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Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:21 pm

"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
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Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:10 pm

It's high time I reported back for duty on this thread, I have been remiss in my obligations. Been out celebrating the Queen's Jubilee of course, and got a bit carried away with it. As usual upon making a re-appearance, I must begin with a round of apologies.

Joe Hillshoist wrote:I'm in a bush fire fighting brigade in a drought prone country so its important to know about water and whether sources are potable or not.


I know Joe, sorry about that. It's still not a word that most folk use in everyday life though. Nobody talks about how potable their beer is. It'd be a bit like walking into a pub and asking for a beverage (or worse still, a libation). I accept that the word is used though, and rightly, especially in a firefighting situation where drinking water can also run low.

AhabsOtherLeg wrote:Did I ever mention that Scotland has a vast, renewable, and nearly inexhaustible supply of fresh water, btw, while the rest of the UK requires constant and ongoing transfers of H2o to keep itself going?


I apologise for this as well, to Gnostic and everybody else. It's the kind of fuckwittery that inevitably comes upon a person if they spend too much time arguing on the Telegraph's comment pages.

"Pfft, let them have the oil, we'll just invade and take it back afterwards."

"Well, we'll keep all the water then, and pour it all over our bodies out of pure spite. Enjoy your hosepipe ban!"

"Subsidy junkie!"

"Revenue thief!"

And so on and so on ad nauseam, mea culpa. That stuff gets no one nowhere.

I even knew it was wrong at the time, which makes it worse. England has no need of Scottish water at all. Apart from the truly epic Kielder Reservoir, the South East can take it's water from Wales and the Midlands if necessary, and England is perfectly capable of building the new reservoirs it needs (though the private water companies don't seem very keen to invest their massive profits in the infrastructure necessary for the continuation of their own businesses - much like privatized utilities everywhere).

vanlose kid wrote:


Yep, the water comment did show me to a bit of a twat. I like John Cooper Clark too though.

Have to clarify my earlier statement of approval for Hugh MacDiarmid. He's a great poet but (not unusually among great poets) also a dick. He became a Communist after the Soviet re-suppression of Hungary, which for a believer in national independence was a massive act of hypocrisy. He also refused to sign the Scottish Covenant in the 1950s because he was in a huff. Some of his political theorising was painfully and destructively anti-English. Good poems, though, for the most part.

Now for my apolgies to Mac.

MacCruiskeen wrote:What will Independence actually mean, though, in the 21st century? If it's just going to mean new and craftier ways of getting haggard Chinese and Indonesian children to make the gadgets we (don't) need, then it's hardly sustainable™, to say nothing of ethical.


I was a bit dismissive of your post there Mac, for some reason, even though it's a good point and I agree with it. An independence that preserves the status quo would not be good enough for me in any way. I would still vote for it as the only realistic first step toward eventually changing the status quo, but no, really, we can't just be another small neoliberal state among other small neoliberal states, thriving on the unacknowledged exploitation of other people's lives and resources.

Since we can't (and shouldn't) compete with China or South East Asia in terms of wages and work conditions, we will have to go for the high-education/high-tech/high-value route - producing ridiculously expensive "innovative" consumer and scientific goods for sale to the rich markets of the West. We have a decent start in this for such a small country - five of the world's top 200 universities, a globally acknowledged life-sciences and nano-tech sector, already producing 28% of Europe's PCs and 7% of the world's notebook laptops, world leaders in renewable energy technologies (arguably the world leaders, at least in terms of practically applying the tech as part of our economy), etc.

Of course, the computer-production side of this means that we need and must have lots of coltan, and since long-distance exploitation of the Congolese is no better than that of the Chinese we are still in a bind, ethically, and many of them are still in chains, sometimes literally. I don't really know what to do about that. For the power and wealth disparity to be evened out people in the West would have to accept a drastic reduction in their living standards in the interests of fairness, and they have never shown any willingness to do that. They have only shown a willingness to accept a drastic reduction in their living standards in the interests of unfairness and limitless private profit. This, you could say, is the whole problem.

But Scottish heavy industry isn't in quite the dire state it once was. We are building things again, real things. The shipyards could last at least another generation before India and South Korea render them entirely uneconomical, especially since the MOD admitted it might still have to commission naval supply ships from Scottish yards after independence.

Hate to sound like an SNP shill or anything, but there is a real future here, for the first time in a long time, and Westminster isn't helping it. It doesn't want to face it, or what it means.

I should also clarify what I said earlier about Salmond not being a real socialist, and me not being either. Salmond is leftier than any party leader outside Plaid Cymru or Sinn Fein, leftier I would say than Hollande in France - he was once a member of the Marxist-influenced 79 Group, got expelled from the SNP for it. Then he helped to sway the trades unions to the SNP by pointing out the simple fact that Labour have never done anything noticeable to help or support them while in power and have never repealed Thatcher's anti-union laws. He took part in the Poll Tax protests, believes in the NHS and free tertiary education, etc. But you shouldn't really have to be a socialist to do any of that stuff. It should just be the norm. Support for the working man and woman (and opposition to war) should be the default mode, without having to get in screaming matches with Trotskyists or deal with accusations of left-deviation and all that ugly shite and backstabbing that comes with the ideological wing of socialism.

Do I sound like a New Labour-style prong, or at least like how they started out down their road to full Toryism? It's been worrying me recently.

Oh, and while Salmond was in the 79 Group, he was also an RBS energy economist, so.... yeah. :?

EDITTED twice for a laugh.
Last edited by AhabsOtherLeg on Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:18 pm

semper occultus wrote:
AhabsOtherLeg wrote:He did not look well, though, I must say. Or sound it. This is not, usually, a guy who stumbles over his words under pressure, or mixes them up, but he did this time, when it really mattered.


are you implying he was got at...?


No, sorry Semper, I can see how it looked that way, but I wasn't really. It's just that I'm at the stage now where I'm turning into his Mum - I keep wanting to jump on stage and fix his tie for him, or spit on a hankie and rub dirt off his cheek. He's not taking proper care of himself! He has a long-term back problem that he has seized on as an excuse to never walk anywhere - he'll take a car to travel 200 yards, and has also developed a worrying love of arriving at speeches in a fucking helicopter - that's what I meant by him looking like he was in pain. Think his bad back was giving him gyp, that's all, and he let it get in the way of one of the most important public statements he's ever made. As for him being out of breath, not sure what that's all about. He keeps putting his deputy up for questioning on TV as well, instead of himself. I worry about his health. Not so much because of threats posed to it by state agents though. For now. He'd have to be conslusively winning for them to take the phasers off stun.

As for travelling in a helicopter, that's just ridiculousness on his part. It's like a popular leftist politician deciding to spend as much time as he possibly can in a light aircraft, or a recalcitrant weapon's inspector going for repeated walks in the woods, or a nuclear proliferation expert deciding to hang out on the roof of UN headquarters, or an MI6 spy buying a woman's wig on impulse, or an.... etc.

semper occultus wrote:are we to assume he is shortly be outed as a cross-dresser....?


It's a possibility. I would rate it no higher than that for the time being though. They have other, much easier stategies to pursue, some of which they wouldn't even have to work at - like a Europe-wide economic collapse of world-altering proportions. I could see the No vote winning handily in that situation, people being what they are.

semper occultus wrote:www.businessdayonline.com


Haha! Glad to see Nigeria accomplishing what the UK could not. It's funny, 'cos the Uk government has argued that it had no choice but to spend (or gamble) the revenue as it came in, because of our need to invest in infrastructure. Yet Nigeria can afford an oil fund. Beautiful.

Thanks for the article about the fiction of the tartan terrorists. It's hilarious. Unfortunately, they are real. They pop up at the oddest and most convenient times, though. In the run up to the '79 devolution referendum for instance, five years after the McCrone Report was submitted to the UK Government by one of it's own economists, this happened:

Previously unheard of would-be terrorist cells began to emerge: The "Scottish Legion", "Jacobites", "Border Clan", 'Tartan Army" and the "100 Organisation", which took its name from the famous historic Declaration of Arbroath, stating: "So long as 100 of us remain alive we will never submit to English rule."

American companies based in Aberdeen became nervous that a Scottish breakaway, socialist in outlook, was threatening their interests. Pressure was exerted on the government to control the situation.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/th ... 18697.html


Whole article is worth a look. Why these brand-spanking new terrorist groups would suddenly appear to fight for a referendum that they were already being allowed to hold is hard to figure out. Just one of those weird things that happen in Britain, I guess.

The SNLA, the only real and significant terrorist group of this kind, were formed after the failure to secure a Scottish Assembly despite the majority Yes vote in '79. They are an interesting sub-group - I think there was about six of them at their peak - not least because their leader Adam Busby had been previously trained by the British Army, and then by the IRA. I don't doubt that he was a real Scottish Nationalist, and a real (non-State controlled) terrorist, but the British Army connection is still puzzling to me - especially when you consider that Seán Mac Stíofáin, the first "Chief of Staff" of the Provisional IRA, was ex-Royal Air Force too. I don't think these two guys were controlled by the UK state, or agents of it, but something in it's military culture seems to have royally pissed them off.

:doh:

MacCruiskeen wrote:I think the Scottish Parliament building is a disaster. It's one of the most unpleasant new public buildings I have ever ventured into, and all the worse because it makes such a rhetorical* fuss about "invoking" Newness and Openness and Democracy and christ knows fuckin what.


I agree, it's horrible as a piece of architecture. The only benefit I can see to it's appearance is that if the worst comes to the worst, and British Army tanks roll into Edinburgh, they will think it has been shelled already. :lol:

Never forget who built it, and why. The Scottish Office commissioned it at the behest of New Labour to give us a shiny but useless bauble that might shut us up for a while, preferably forever - as Lord George Robertson said, slavering at the prospect: "Devolution will kill Nationalism stone dead." They had to make it look cool and new and groovy by Nineties standards, at ludicrous expense to the nation, but it was never supposed to have any real power or present any inconvenience to the UK State. I'm on the verge of thinking they made it look shit on purpose actually, hehe. And they stuck it into a UNESCO World Heritage Site too. So no, don't apologise. It's a heap of rubble designed to function as such.

But then this happened:


Doesn't look like much, I know, but the fact that she reconvened the Parliament after it's adjournment in 1707 rather than declaring it a wholly new political entity has serious and permanent constitutional implications. If it is the same Parliament that existed in 1707, then the people of Scotland retain their sovereign status over the Crown, established in the Declaration of Arbroath, and reconfirmed in the Claim of Right 1689 (and 1988). Which is nice.

You're spot on about the building, but not about the Parliament. And since you were only talking about the building that means you're spot on overall.* :partydance:

*Because you agree with me. Woe betide those who do not.
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Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:27 pm

I haven't been able to keep this thread very up to date with goings on, but here is an interesting little debate between George Galloway and his old pal Dennis Canavan from a couple of weeks back. Both of them were expelled from the Labour party for having principles and being left wing, so it's unfortunate to see them go head to head in a "will independence split the left?" kind of way. To be fair, they both stay very civillized. I think it's clear who has the better arguments though. In fact, it's depressingly clear that George really hasn't considered this issue at all since he was sold the same crock of shit in the 70s as the rest of us were by Labour.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmNXy7Gh23o

If for some reason STV has decided to block the vid in your country, consider using Proxtube to view it. If you're interested like: https://proxtube.com/

In recent weeks my pal Patrick Harvie of the Greens has fallen out with the Yes Campaign a bit. He is quite politically ambitious and astute (for a Green) and doesn't want to be seen as playing second-fiddle in an SNP-led campaign. Fair play to him. Him and other more explicitly socialist types are now setting up an extra-parliamentary Radical Independence Conference without the SNP (apparently the SNP are now The Establishment) to press their own agenda. The unionist media have of course played this as a horrific split in the Yes campaign and an early disaster among many that they will happily trumpet over the coming years (whether the disasters actually happen or not).

Need to correct myself on a few points:

I said that Thatcher had conceded fishing grounds to Norway, Iceland, and Spain in order to placate the EEC. This is false. It was only Spain that she gave away grounds to, but she gave away a lot. Neither Norway or Iceland were EEC/EU members. Iceland had taken some fishing grounds off us earlier by defeating the UK in the Cod Wars. Yeah... the Cod Wars.

I said that the Treaty of Union had been agreed under a Crown backed by Divine Right. This is false. The Divine Right of Kings had been ended in 1688 by the Glorious Revolution in England, and in 1320 by the Declaration of Arbroath in Scotland. Nevertheless, in 1707, the Crown was still the ultimate political authority in the land, and arguably still is.

Mea cupla, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Oh aye, Alex Salmond appeared on the Craig Ferguson Show recently. He's over in the US to secretly attend the Bilderberg meeting in Virginia no doubt, and get permission from the big boys to annul the UK. Fair enough. He wore green tartan trousers on US telly though (ffs) and was generally a bit of an embarassment, though thankfully not as much of an embarassment as Craig Ferguson himself. Salmond is also promoting the new Disney film Brave, starring Rebekkah Brooks, formerly of the News of the World.

This has been the 11 o'clock news.
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Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State

Postby smoking since 1879 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:53 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:
Ahab wrote:Hey, forgot to say, you know what's inscribed on the wall of the Scottish Parliament? I bet you do.

"Work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation."

Indeed. Indeed.


Belatedly: I think the Scottish Parliament building is a disaster. It's one of the most unpleasant new public buildings I have ever ventured into, and all the worse because it makes such a rhetorical* fuss about "invoking" Newness and Openness and Democracy and christ knows fuckin what. It's a dense grim sticky labyrinth, and if it's not positively designed to baffle & disorientate & intimidate the plebs and the tourists then it has some explaining to do, especially because the architects -- with loadsa money (public money) -- were exploiting an incomparably open and airy site.

*The rhetoric is cast in stone, literally. Even Alasdair Gray has been petrified, although he's still alive. "Work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation." - aye, right, that's easy enough to quote, and even easier to petrify, as long as the working class is paying for the petrification, which it did and inevitably does, whether it wants to or not. Suggested alteration: "Work as if you were being paid handsomely to fossilise people who actually give a shit".

Sorry, Ahab, but it really pisses me off. It is at the heart of Scotland, after all, both literally and metaphorically. The building is both symbolic and real, and it's a wilfully ugly maze. Function follows form.

Image
Big lumps with squiggly bits stuck on.


Image
The luxury-favela look.

Image
Democracy: it darkens your way while threatening to fall on your head.

FFS!



Wow, what's with the pistol an owl motifs?
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Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:47 pm

I can see the pistols, but struggling to see owls... unless you mean the pistols form the eyebrows/beaks of owls, with the windows being their eyes?
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Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State

Postby smoking since 1879 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:53 pm

Image
"Now that the assertive, the self-aggrandising, the arrogant and the self-opinionated have allowed their obnoxious foolishness to beggar us all I see no reason in listening to their drivelling nonsense any more." Stanilic
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Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:14 pm

smoking since 1879 wrote:Image


Ay, very like an owl. Or an alien. Or a whale.

Let's not get carried away here. The building's a horrible mess, and that's bad enough.

Granted: any two windows side-by-side can be seen as eyes. But there ain't no aliens or owls there. Beware of pareidolia!

Image
The house that looks like Hitler
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Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State

Postby smoking since 1879 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:01 pm

call it what you will, I still see half half owls and aliens.

the hitler house is certainly coincidence, the parliament facade was designed...
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Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:27 pm

smoking since 1879 wrote:Image


Oh my God!

Image

... sorry smoking, I still can't see the owls. I'm sure there will be quite a bit of esoteric architecture in the Parliament though, there usually is.
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