The 2012 "Election" thread

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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 8bitagent » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:44 pm

barracuda wrote:Re: baby killing:

Jack Kennedy was a baby killer too. I know I know... you KNEW Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a FRIEND of yours. And Obama is NO JACK KENNEDY. I get it. Nevertheless, Kennedy killed babies. In a war of choice.

FDR killed babies - by the ton-load. By air, sea and land he killed 'em.

Abe Lincoln was a notorious baby-killist. And was hated far and wide for causing the deaths of the very young by rifle, artillery, bayonet, fire and privation. Ruthlessly.

Fun fact: the VERY FIRST U.S. president was actually an army general! And killed people! Of all ages!

I suppose one could point to the Ford or Carter administrations as escaping the responsibilities of prosecuting wars, sort of, but only by the luck of the dice-roll. They were both completely prepared to kill babies, as far as I'm aware, but never really got a good shot.

My understanding has been that GWBush was responsible for the deaths of possibly over a million persons as a result of his war of choice in Iraq. Over a million. And I always consider that this is a likely a conservative estimate, because people are still dying as a result of his actions.

These sort of actions are, in reality, one of the main functions of the rank of Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States of America. That's what you are voting for - the Supreme Commander of the what has become the largest armed force in the history of the known universe. That's what all the photo ops, speech-making and baby kissing in rolled up shirtsleeves is meant to deal with: that military expenditures in the U.S. require at present and estimated 50% of all tax re



These are good points. JFK was in the pocket of the powers that be for awhile. I mean hell RFK viciously went after "Communists" in the horrible blacklist mccarthy days. But both had a change of heart.
JFK by 1963 of course was singing a tune, but was not even close to the progressive RFK by 1968 appeared to be.

FDR like LBJ did a lot of good for America I feel. But you look at LBJ. His war mongering in Vietnam grew so much, that the left turned on him by the late 60s. Youd never see the left turn on a Democrat en masse these days.
Abe Lincoln definitely represented a faction that got consumed with seeing southerners as sub human and enacted a scorched earth policy. But its also a fact Abe Lincoln still held some rather racist beliefs. Such a strange, different time back then...even the most psychopathic of Native American killers and one termers were visionary orators who wrote their own speeches, and whose language could barely be comprehended today.

Anyways you make a darn good point how no president is innocent. However, I saw the documentary Man From Plains re: Carter's standing up against what's going on in Palestine and I did gain a new respect for him.
And Ford...well just google East Timor...
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 8bitagent » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:48 pm

Just to be clear, noone is calling anyone on here voting for Obama an Obamabot. Obamabots don't want to hear and or acknowledge any unsaintly deeds by the current chief. I respect and I think most understand the feeling of urgent necessity. Who knows what will happen soon, and noone here can fault anyone for doing what they feel is the best option at the ballot box. I don't think anyone is asleep here.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 8bitagent » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:52 pm

compared2what? wrote:
It's good to put yourself first.



Why thank you. It's the religion of today

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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:54 pm

8bitagent wrote:Just to be clear, noone is calling anyone on here voting for Obama an Obamabot.


Well, except for some completely unidentified woman you don't know in that picture you and ninakat seem to think is so funny, who (by appearance) conveniently fits some hippie stereotype about "Obamabots."
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Rory » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:21 pm

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... wells.html

Think of the company y'all Obama personalized haters are keeping. Michael Ledeen. Michelle Malkin :cheers:

Image

Over the past four years, no less than 89 obsessively anti-Obama books have been published, as now catalogued by The Daily Beast. I’m not talking about cool statements of policy difference, but overheated and often unhinged screeds painting a picture of the president as a dangerous radical hell-bent on undermining the Republic by any means necessary. It is hate and hyper-partisan paranoia masquerading as high-minded patriotism.

Here’s the worst part—this steady drumbeat of incitement is having an impact on this presidential election because it has poisoned the well of civic discourse for many voters and those in their radius of damage. It has helped divide the nation beyond reason, distorting the president’s real record beyond all recognition.

By their very nature, books offer the promise of education and enlightenment. These conspiracy entrepreneurs prey on the prejudices of their audience. This is high-priced hardcover bile, boasting titles like:

The Communist; The Muslim Brotherhood in the Obama Administration; Where’s the Birth Certificate?; The Manchurian President: Barack Obama’s Ties to Communists, Socialists and other Anti-American Extremists; The Great Destroyer: Barack Obama’s War on the Republic; Trickle Down Tyranny: Crushing Obama’s Dream of the Social States of America; Gangster Government: Barack Obama and the New Washington Thugocracy; How Obama Embraces Islam’s Sharia Agenda; The Post-American Presidency: The Obama Administration’s War on America; To Save America: Stopping Obama’s Secular Socialist Machine; The Blueprint: Obama’s Plan to Subvert the Constitution and Build an Imperial Presidency; and what is still my personal favorite title: Whiny Little Bitch: The Excuse Filled Presidency of Barack Obama.

The titles themselves suggest palpable weirdness and un-wellness, a departure from reality commensurate with joining a cult. But the authors are not all fringe figures nervously typing up pamphlets in their basement. They include former elected officials, administration appointees, and at least one presidential candidate among with the parade of professional polarizers and right-wing shock jocks. You can check out our interactive gallery to figure out who is who, with their books helpfully divided into subject areas: Economy, Security, Media, HealthCare and, by far the most popular, Dangerous Radical.

They’ve been able to spread their message and make a lot of money in the process by hitting the hyper-partisan circuit with high-profile help. A stunning 56 of the authors in the Obama Haters Book Club have been featured on Fox News according to Lexis-Nexis searches, giving them valuable mass media exposure, the opportunity to preach to the conservative choir and sell books by the boatload.

The Communist; The Muslim Brotherhood in the Obama Administration, and Where’s the Birth Certificate? are just a few entries in the fast-growing genre.

As a result, the cottage industry of hating Barack Obama is now big business. Hack-ish screeds like The Amateur by Edward Klein outsell well-written and thoroughly reported books like Barack Obama: The Story by David Maraniss. Hate sells because it is simple.

Of course, President Obama isn’t the first White House occupant to face unhinged hatred and conspiracy theories. It is in part a tradition going back to our earliest days, consistent with the First Amendment. But because of the pervasive nature of partisan media in the modern world, the problem has gotten demonstrably worse.

Two years ago, when I put together the first Obama Haters Book Club list, the number of titles was at 46, roughly half the current total.

Compare that to the literature of Bush Derangement Syndrome, which totaled just 5 at the midterm elections of 2002 and rocketed up to 46 by November of 2004. Obama Derangement Syndrome shares some of the same qualities—truthers and birthers are in some respects mirror images of each other; obsessed with their targets alleged tyrannical ambitions and core illegitimacy—but they are not remotely equivalent.

There have been twice as many Obama Derangement Syndrome books as specimens of Bush Derangement Syndrome. The cycle of incitement has gotten worse and more widespread because it’s been semi-legitimized. Some of the same folks who called BDS treasonous see ODS as part of a patriotic resistance. This is more insidious than simple hypocrisy.

Barack Obama is the first Democratic president who has truly had to contend with the full spectrum of partisan media machinery. Hating Bill Clinton was an essentially analog event. Talk Radio was in its full glory, but Fox News was still in its infancy as was the Internet. So stories about Bubba’s alleged propensity for Marxism, murder, and drug-dealing never really got beyond John Birch Society and Moral Majority mailing lists. And now Bill Clinton seems to be, hilariously, every Republicans’ favorite living Democrat.

The core problem with Clinton for many conservatives seemed to be that they could not accept him as a legitimate president until he was out of office. The same is now true with Barack Obama but on steroids, with the added alloy of race inserted into the mix.

We will look back on birtherism and some of the other strange conspiracy theories that have clustered around him as, at the very least, vestigial remnants of racism. The sheer tonnage of hate and lies directed his way in the White House is stunning and it will seem somewhere between stupid, silly, and sad in the future.

But for now, we are witnessing the harvest of that hate. Talk to otherwise decent, well-intentioned citizens on the campaign trail and these themes keep creeping up in conversation: “Obama is a socialist” and “He wants to make us more like Europe” are among the most benign; “Muslim” and “Marxist” are not uncommon. This past Wednesday, I spoke with three tipsy middle-aged women who helped put on an Ann Romney rally in wealthy Winter Park, Florida, who did not hesitate to repeatedly describe the president of the United States as “evil.” Members of Congress even repeat lines straight out the Obama Haters Book Club, talking about Obama’s “Gangster Government,” “Thugocracy,” Muslim Brotherhood infiltration of his administration, his Communist influences and tyrannical ambitions. One Romney campaign ad even spoke of the president’s “War on Religion.”

This doesn’t even qualify as dog-whistle politics—it directly repeats the core drumbeat of the Obama Haters Book Club: that President Obama is un-American and anti-American.

As a result of this constant drumbeat, many Americans have a hard-time recognizing President Obama’s record for what it objectively is.

So a president who has presided over a doubling of the stock market is somehow seen as socialist and anti-business. A president who ordered the killing of Osama bin Laden and the systematic targeting of al Qaeda leadership while keeping America safe from subsequent terrorist plots is a secret Islamist-sympathizer.

Most significantly, a legislative record that led non-partisan political scientists at the respected blog VoteView to say “President Obama is the most moderate Democratic president since the end of World War II” is instead widely seen as a far-left radical. It is a lie told enough times that some people are convinced it must be the truth.

The most pervasive and troubling aspect of this election is the gap between narrative and fact. It is a direct result of the interplay between hate and the rise of hyper-partisan media. And it will have long-term repercussions after this election has passed. As I wrote two years ago in the first “Obama Haters Book Club” column, “We’re getting caught up in the politics of incitement, becoming desensitized in ways that damage the institutions of our democracy. Because if any Republican thinks that this cycle will stop with the next president, they underestimate the ways that politics follows the lines of physics—every action creates an equal and opposite reaction. This will become the new normal…We need to stop this cycle of incitement before it destroys our ability to unite as a nation absent a disaster.”

Healing after this election will take a long time—thanks in large part to the Obama Haters Book Club.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby DrEvil » Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:06 pm

I don't know what scares me the most: That these books are listed as non-fiction, or that there's such a huge market for them.

Edit: If anyone is tempted to actually read any of those books, at least have the decency to pirate them. :basicsmile
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 8bitagent » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:04 pm

Rory: AND EACH one of them attack Obama for the WRONG reason. That's the running joke. The racist retard republicans hate Obama for completely made up, fictitious reasons.
I would not care one single second, and actually would be happy if he WAS a Communist socialist Muslim born in Kenya.

It's like if the left insisted Bush was a repitillian who eats babies and mutilates cats. So thereby we shouldnt hate Bush for fear of sounding like a leftie who thinks hes a cat killing baby eater. See?

Also just found this...brilliant...

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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:14 pm

.

WARNING: SECOND PHOTO WILL TRIGGER SOMETHING (RETCHING).



I'd rather be her...

RI_SupposedObamaWoman.jpg






than this guy!

RI_eric_hartsburg_2_jef_121026_wmain.jpg
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Usrename » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:53 pm

ninakat wrote:Obama Worse Than Bush


Yeah, right.

“Oh, please don't kill me [said with a laugh].” - Texas Governor George W. Bush, to reporters asking what death row convict Carla Faye Tucker said to him in her appeal for clemency


“And while I’m very proud of what we’ve achieved together, I’m far more mindful of my own failings, knowing exactly what Lincoln meant when he said, ”I have been driven to my knees many times by the overwhelming conviction that I had no place else to go.” - President Obama at the Democratic National Convention Sep 7, 2012
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Usrename » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:05 pm

8bitagent wrote:
barracuda wrote:Re: baby killing:

...



http://presidentobamawithbabies.tumblr. ... e-children
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Usrename » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:29 pm

I know it probably makes sense to some people that once we elect a new president then all of the old problems just vaporize by themselves.

But that isn't how this stuff works.

John Negroponte is a good example. He was pulling a coup in Honduras before Obama and Michele got their stuff unpacked. I mention him only because he seems like the idealized enemy. In any dichotomy that is rational, if this really is a "them" vs. "us" problem, with those kind of solutions that lend themselves to those types of problems, then this guy is more of a problem that anyone else, isn't he? He single-handedly changed my life-long views about capital punishment. Society needs to start permanently removing guys like this in order to defend itself.

Would I like Obama to take him out with a drone? Hell no! But that's a completely different issue, with completely different solution. We need a court that will declare this stuff illegal. We don't have that right now. WE HAVE TO CREATE THAT!

I think it's stunning that his wiki page doesn't mention that he was convicted and later pardoned in the Iran Contra Conspiracy. Not a mention. But that's who I know him as, a convicted felony conspirator pardoned by Bush.

There may be a real dichotomy here, and I lean that way myself. I admit that at times I have a "you're either with us or against us" attitude about certain things. I believe in monsters. Dr. Mengele was real. But setting up some sort of false comparison between Bush and Obama in order to make Obama out to be the problem is pretty foolish, if you ask me. I don't think he enjoys killing babies, and there's no doubt that others do enjoy it and also profit immensely from it.

What's the point? I honestly don't get it.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:29 am

Rory, quoting a smug hack, wrote:politics follows the lines of physics—every action creates an equal and opposite reaction. This will become the new normal…We need to stop this cycle of incitement before it destroys our ability to unite as a nation absent a disaster.”

Healing after this election will take a long time—thanks in large part to the Obama Haters Book Club.


Oh my: "Healing"! The year is 2012, yet he doesn't hesitate to say it. Really, it's wonderful, just wonderful. It caps the whole essay as inevitably as a fly on a turd. He presents it as if it were an ace.

May god preserve me from all parsons.

Obama's advocates wonder why he, and they, are hated, despite being neither Bush nor Bush's advocates. Hint (for the hard of thinking): It is because nobody likes being spoonfed excrement. So put down that spoon and back away.

- Here's a one-line response to "Rory" and The Daily Beast, because I really cannot be arsed analysing that execrable screed in all its thickwitted, disingenuously sanctimonious detail:

[quote="A fictional person who refused 'Healing'" ]Get away from me with your hands across the ocean and your finger up me arse. [/quote]

Really. I mean really. There is 1000x more sanity and political sense and contact with reality in that one-line blanket refusal (by a cruel brutal obnoxious fucked-up fictional soldier) than in any actual point-for-point rebuttal of the Daily Beasts's softsoap, and christ knows that's saying something.

Politics today -- as ever -- is a fight between those who have bought or inherited time to waste and those whose time is practically wholly owned by others. I don't expect the average liberal to be able to even begin to understand this, because carefully maintained obtuseness helps preserve their [relative] wealth, hence the passive aggression covered by the "healing" schleim.


The sound of Obama
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Nordic » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:16 am

Rory wrote:http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/26/the-obama-haters-book-club-the-canon-swells.html

Think of the company y'all Obama personalized haters are keeping. Michael Ledeen. Michelle Malkin :cheers:

Image

Over the past four years, no less than 89 obsessively anti-Obama books have been published, as now catalogued by The Daily Beast. I’m not talking about cool statements of policy difference, but overheated and often unhinged screeds painting a picture of the president as a dangerous radical hell-bent on undermining the Republic by any means necessary. It is hate and hyper-partisan paranoia masquerading as high-minded patriotism.



Let me get this straight. I shouldn't rag on Obama because REALLY BAD NASTY PEOPLE rag on Obama, but for completely different reasons, in fact FICTIONAL reasons.

But because I rag on Obama, and they rag on Obama, WE'RE THE SAME. And it's really BAD to rag on Obama because, why?

Because if those REALLY BAD NASTY PEOPLE hate Obama, then Obama MUST be a GOOD PERSON.

Your logic is shit.

Your arguments are shit.

STFU. You're making an idiot of yourself.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby JackRiddler » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:26 am

Yowch, Joe Cocker, that is really over the line. The horror, the horror.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Usrename » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:58 am

Nordic wrote:Let me get this straight. Let me get this straight. I shouldn't rag on Obama because REALLY BAD NASTY PEOPLE rag on I shouldn't rag on Obama because REALLY BAD NASTY PEOPLE rag on Obama, but for completely different reasons, in fact FICTIONAL reasons. Obama, but for completely different reasons, in fact FICTIONAL reasons.


Actually, you aren't any different. Your made up reasons are not any more intelligent.
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