The 2012 "Election" thread

[compared2what?]

It was those Fed-held mortgage securities I was really trying to check, though. I didn't want to have been harder on her than she deserved in the event that they weren't agency-backed. But that's exactly what they are -- straight-up Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac issue, implicitly guaranteed by the government ever since the New Deal brought it into being.

Fannie/Freddie, which operated as private shareholder companies prior to their failure, and the Fed have both taken over prodigious quantities of MBS paper originally issued by Wall Street banks (i.e., not originated by Fannie/Freddie). While these represent assets, it is unclear what their real value is and in cases of mortgage default realizing that value means foreclosure and eviction -- with potentials for unintended consequences such as depressing the market and further dropping the value, as well as spreading poverty and desperation with its impact on the economy. Can you check those numbers -- how much of current "Fannie/Freddie" and "Fed" holdings is actually originally Wall Street MBS?

In a way, that's not an easy question to answer simply. Briefly, their exposure to toxic, hopeless, subprime stuff was both time- and regulation-limited, however imperfectly on the latter score. So "prodigious" would always have been....Well. I guess it depends. It's kind of a relative term. But I'm not so sure it would ever really have been justified.

More to the point, though...

...

Okay. I give up for now. The whole issue is complicated by the Fannie/Freddie (Bush-era) government bail-out, which actually wasn't fundamentally at all a bad thing for ordinary citizens, despite (a) being Bush-era; (b) representing a huge and costly-to-taxpayers increase in federal debt; and (c) providing unmerited relief to evil banksters and Wall-Street types. It just wasn't a good one.

More later elsewhere, at some point.

Technically, that is debt. But I'd hate to see how she characterized the Social Security program if she thinks it's either fair or accurate to call the Fed's holding of them a public liability that benefits banksters and just leave it at that.

Well she hasn't done that yet. [/quote]

Effectively, I'd say she has.

The Fed didn't fucking set the interest rate at zero as a matter of monetary policy in order to create jobs. It's at zero because it can't go lower. And they're desperately trying to raise it. That's why they're buying shit.

It's at zero to stabilize the banking system, in part by allowing them to borrow at zero and buy bonds (such as Treasuries) at higher-than zero. Essentially a publicly subsidized arbitrage for Wall Street. Also, technically it is untrue that it can't go lower. One possibility (not currently in view) is in fact to set negative interest rates on select debt instruments held by public institutions, gradually relieving and reducing the debt burden on the people.

Why don't you repost all this on the Wall Street thread, and I'll follow suit? Since it's not quite in the right monster thread any more, I hope you'll agree. Pretty please.

Absolutely. I suspect we pretty much agree, though. Because it's not like I wouldn't say that there were enormous problems with what they're doing, how they're doing it, and why. To say the least.

What I mostly object to is....I guess the extent to which that article suggests that all government debt is always unambiguously morally evil and bad for citizens. And the extent to which it's decoupled the subject from taxation issues.

FWIW, I'm actually not trying to be antagonistic or combative by disputing it. It's just that those are the exact same kinds of omissions and oversimplifications that the MSM uses to construct the dangerous falsehoods with which it prefers to beguile the public. And ultimately, they're just as destructive. Predatory, even.

Anyway. Sure! Later.

[seemslikeadream]

Jeff Brucculeri, Local Traffic Reporter, Directs Fleeing Romney Supporters To Canada (VIDEO)
Posted: 11/08/2012 3:42 pm EST Updated: 11/08/2012 3:51 pm EST

A local Tulsa, Oklahoma traffic reporter answered a special request put forth by some viewers on Wednesday.

"I know a lot people said that if their candidate lost the election, they’d be moving to Canada," reporter Jeff Brucculeri said. "Not sure why, but that's what some of the folks promised out there. So let me give you the quickest and directest route from Tulsa to Canada."

A map appeared on screen with a route highlighted in purple that, as Brucculeri promised, look pretty straightforward. He cautioned drivers about a junction in Omaha, Nebraska, as that will put travelers on I-29, which heads straight to the border.

"Literally I-29 will go to the Canadian border," he said. "Now when you get to Canada, make sure you've got either your card or your passport to get into Canada now. Then you're going to get back on highway 75 in Canada. It's actually the Lord Selkirk Highway. If you're moving to Canada, you're going to need to know this! Lord Selkirk Highway, okay?"

Brucculeri's Fox 23 colleagues were clearly entertained by the directions, as they were heard laughing off camera.

[Wombaticus Rex]

What is the ecosystem that Rove was operating in on Tuesday night? He really thought -- nay, knew -- that he'd done his homework, I respect the shadenfreude of his Fox News meltdown but it spoke very differently to me...it wasn't a "just desserts" moment: he got the rug pulled out from under him. He had been planning the operation for 2 years and someone made the call to pull the plug. I could mix a few more metaphors, but you grok.

I am very interested in who was in a position to make that call behind Rove's back.

I do agree with Mark Crispin Miller that the youtube video of the voting machine obviously rigged to make Obama votes into Romney ticks may have been a deciding factor.

Score one (at last) for the Election Integrity movement!

Late last night, after Obama took Ohio, Karl Rove was on Fox News, doggedly refusing to concede. He insisted that Ohio was still in play, as Romney was going to win in Hamilton County—where the votes were “counted” on machines made and maintained by Hart InterCivic, a company effectively controlled by Romney’s family. (The same machines were also used in Williams County.)

So it’s not surprising that the GOP’s Lord Voldemort foresaw an “upset victory” in that county. It is surprising that he said it on Fox News, and when the game was obviously lost, so that a sudden Romney “victory” in Ohio would have seemed especially suspicious—even in the eyes of Rove’s old allies on Fox News (or those not in the loop).

To those of us with vivid memories of Election Nights 2000 and 2004, it was a creepy moment—and things got even creepier when Brad Friedman reported that the website of the Ohio SoS had suddenly gone down, which had also happened at that very hour eight years before; and when it had come back on, Kerry, who had been ahead, was now behind. And—horribly—the rest was history.

But that didn’t happen this time, as Rove had obviously lost control—of himself (his recklessness in mouthing off like that was staggering), and, infinitely more important, of his well-oiled, fabulously subsidized election-theft machine. For all his plans, and all the preparations made by Ohio SoS Jon Husted (among others), Rove was clearly overruled on this Election Day, as cooler heads prevailed.

The fact is that, this time, yet another late-night “upset victory” would have been too risky—for the US press had finally done its job, enough to make a lot of people conscious of what’s happened to our voting system, and, therefore,of what could happen to let Romney “win.”

The honor roll includes, among many others, Harper’s (for publishing Victoria Collier’s brilliant overview), the Atlantic, Esquire, the Christian Science Monitor, Forbes (which came out with a killer piece about Ohio’s voting system early on Election Day), Huffington Post, and even DailyKos (which had been fervently denialist since 2004).

This time, such organs, and others, played up news that most of them would once have buried or ignored—especially the news of what was happening in Ohio, broken by Gerry Bello and Bob Fitrakis in the Columbus Free Press, and carried even by such unlikely outlets as Fox 19 in Cincinnati.

In short, our work online was finally resonating through the mainstream press—not the New York Times or CNN, of course, but others numerous and respectable enough to give some traction to the questions we’ve been raising for so many years. Thus the old smear of “conspiracy theory” finally sounded not like common sense but like the mere ad hominem evasion that it’s really always been; and so those few who used that smear this time were shot to pieces for it.

When NBC’s Chuck Todd compared concerns about e-voting to “birther garbage,” Brad Friedman cleaned his clock, with a devastating catalogue of proven instances of fraud that didn’t just expose the ignorance of NBC’s so-called “elections expert,” but which can now be used by anyone who wants to fight for fair elections.

And, as usual, that tired old slur came not just from the corporate media but, even louder, from the left—ThinkProgress and Alternet both coming out with marvelously stupid pieces whose effect, potentially, is so destructive that Karl Rove himself might just as well have written them. (In its error-riddled item calling the Hart InterCivic story “FALSE,” Snopes.com used Alternet as a source.) And yet the dozens of smart, angry comments posted in response to those outrageous screeds make clear that leftist pundits can no longer get away with laughing off this all-important fight for real elections in America.

It’s time to put an end to such complacent jeering; because people need to know—and want to know—what’s happened here, and what they can do about it. That growing public interest is the reason why our work has finally broken through, with Brad, Victoria, Bob, Gerry and Harvey Wasserman, Jonathan Simon, Sally Castleman, Richard Charnin, Michael Collins, Greg Palast, Bev Harris, John Ennis, Sheila Parks, Paul Lehto, Marta Steele and so many others (and please do forgive me if I didn’t name you here—I’m really tired!) finally seeing, if not their names in lights, their vital findings resonating through the public sphere. In my own case, that broad public interest recently came home to me when my half-hour interview with Heather Wokusch on MNN (NYC’s public access channel) instantly went viral up on YouTube, getting over 80,000 hits in just four days.

And it’s because our work has reached so many people that it’s not just we ourselves who spread the word, but countless others who aren’t activists. As Rove and his confederates mulled their options yesterday, who knows how much they fretted over that explosive bit of video posted by “centralpavoter,” showing that an ES&S iVotronic e-voting machine had repeatedly flipped his Obama vote to Romney? (The Raleigh Telegram reported that the same thing was happening on machines in North Carolina.) The fact that it went viral—vividly disproving the GOP’s propaganda claimsthat Democrats were somehow flipping Romney votes—had to help decide them not to rip off this election after all.

So while this day after is a thrilling time for Democrats, it is a moment of rare triumph for those fighting for legitimate elections in America. We’re feeling this elation not because Barack Obama won, but because we’ve helped prevent the right from pulling off another “win” despite the will of the electorate. And—despite that Democratic sweep—we will keep up this fight to realize American democracy itself, which must be saved not only from Karl Rove, the Kochs and Sheldon Adelson, but from the long joint grip of both the parties, and the money flooding through them.

MCM

I have a Constitutionalist pal who was just mortified at all the comments on black twitter about rioting if Obama lost. I got a big kick out of that. Nothing more uncouth than victims fighting back, right? Let's be civilized...

[2012 Countdown]

Yes, the Rove thing and that thinking crossed my mind as well. He thought he 'knew' something - maybe.

Also adding to Jacks comment about red/blue several pages back. Yes it serves to reinforce to the exclusion of purple or green. Its a red state or blue state, thats it. Purple people need not apply.

---

I donated to these two. I donate to individual candidates. Fuck you 'Democratic' party.

Xxxxxx,

You were there from the very beginning.
Actually, PCCC members were with me before there was a beginning.
We fought together for Wall Street reform. We fought to set up the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. And when I was considering a run for Senate, PCCC members showed me the enthusiasm that would be there if I ran.
We campaigned together for more than a year, and we won our race in Massachusetts because we stuck to our values and worked our tails off to advance bold progressive change.
As I said Sunday on a call with PCCC volunteers, this race was about what kind of a country we want to be and what kind of a people we are. The Republican vision is clear: "I’ve got mine and the rest of you are on your own." I believe we’re a better people than that.

I believe that together we can create something stronger than any of us could alone. We can help our students, we can protect our seniors, we can put more people back to work. Together, we can build a better future.
I offer a very sincere thanks to the many PCCC members who made 574,570 calls for my campaign in recent days, contributed more than $1 million to our effort, and contributed in so many other ways as well. Your support meant so much to me.
The campaign is over, but our fight together for middle-class families goes on.

Thank you so much.

-- Elizabeth Warren

P.S. You can listen to my Sunday conversation with PCCC members by clicking here.

-
http://act.boldprogressives.org/survey/ ... on-fin&t=1

===

Dear Xxxxxx:

We won. And our victory last night was the biggest comeback in the history of the U.S. House of Representatives.
In 2010, we lost by 18 points. In 2012, last night, we won by 25 points, 62.5% to 37.5%. That's a 43-point swing, back to victory.
No one has ever done that before. We made history.
Our polling shows that we won every county, every municipality, every race, every age group, every language group and each gender. We won it all.
So to every voter, thank you.
To the 100,000 supporters who contributed this campaign, whether it was a dollar or $5,000, thank you.
To the volunteers who made more than a quarter of a million live phone calls to get out our vote, thank you.
To our brilliant canvassing staff of fifty, who have knocked on doors every single day since March, thank you.
To the thousands of people who wrote to us to give your advice or express your support, or forwarded our e-mails to your friends, or followed our campaign on Facebook, thank you.
To everyone who marches behind the standards of justice, equality and peace, thank you.

If you helped in any way, large or small, then you can savor this sweet moment. You made it happen.
Congratulations to Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, Tammy Baldwin, Sherrod Brown and Tammy Duckworth. Goodbye, Allen West.
I have a feeling that this won't be the only time that we make history. In fact, if we all work together this way, you can count on it.

Courage,

Alan Grayson

=
http://graysonforcongress.com

[seemslikeadream]

KKKarl was the biggest loser in this election....he is history and it's been a long time coming

Heavily Armed Karl Rove Spotted At Top Of Electoral College Clock Tower

WASHINGTON—Sources confirmed this afternoon that a heavily armed Karl Rove has positioned himself atop the Electoral College clock tower and is planning to pick off at least 50 electors with a high-precision sniper rifle.

Wearing a black tactical ammunition vest with multiple submachine-gun magazine pouches, a holster containing an extra semiautomatic handgun, and several M67 grenades clipped to the chest, Rove reportedly walked up 27 floors to the top of the clock tower, which overlooks the Electoral College’s main quad area and offers the Republican strategist a perfect vantage point to assassinate electors as they exit the Swing State Dining Hall and the Twelfth Amendment Science Building.

Law enforcement officials said Rove appears to be primarily targeting Electoral College attendees from Ohio and Florida.

“Mr. Rove is armed, extremely dangerous, and, we believe, mentally ill,” said lead FBI agent Peter Coburn, adding that his team is working with Electoral College Campus Security to move the institution’s 538 enrolled electors out of harm’s way. “Several witnesses who saw Mr. Rove begin his ascent to the top of the clock tower said he looked stone-faced and was muttering something about making good on his promises to Republican super PAC donors everywhere and to Jesus Christ almighty.”

“We are currently unable to get inside the clock tower because Mr. Rove has destroyed several flights of stairs with plastic explosives,” Coburn added. “Either way, we are urging all Electoral College attendees to stay inside the Red and Blue Dormitory until further notice.”

According to FBI representatives, evidence of Rove’s assassination plot was discovered inside the Fox pundit’s off-campus studio apartment. Amidst old newspapers, weeks-old pizza boxes, and rats, agents said they found an Electoral College yearbook in which multiple faces had been crossed out with red X’s.

NEWS IN BRIEF

CNN's John King Now Just Swiping Hands Across Everything
In addition, officials discovered several composition notebooks filled with Rove’s psychotic musings, including his 2004 plans to seize control of the entire country, and a passage in which he graphically describes how he wants to slit Electoral College president Nate Silver’s throat and then bathe in his blood while staring at his naked body in the bathroom mirror.

One notebook, sources confirmed, was just page after page of the words “Hamilton County” written over and over again.

“You don’t call a state with 991 votes between the candidates,” Rove wrote. “You don’t do that. You never do that. And if you do, I’m not the one who’s crazy. You’re the one who’s crazy. You are the one who must be stopped. You are part of the liberal conspiracy trying to take hold of this nation. And I will be the one to murder you and the children you wanted to abort. I will be the one who stops the madness. I will rain bullets and hellfire on your heads. Say goodbye.”

As the standoff continued, FBI agents said they were having difficulty getting through to Rove—a 2000 Electoral College graduate and basketball standout—and told reporters that special reinforcements needed to be brought in.

“Karl, come down from there,” said former president George W. Bush, shouting into a bullhorn. “I love you. And I know you love me. I would be devastated if I lost you, so don’t do something stupid. We just have to come to terms with the fact that the Republican Party needs to change dramatically in order to win these general elections. We have to be more inclusive. We can’t tell women how to live their lives, and we have to be more gay-friendly ”

At press time, Rove detonated one of his grenades, destroying the clock tower and sending his dismembered body parts cascading to the ground.

[Laodicean]

[psynapz]

I remember getting a call from the, err... Board of Elections Commander... telling me they're not sure they're going to be able to contain the swing districts. And I said, you know, we've had such terrible loss of rights. Maybe the smartest thing to do is... is pull it. Uuh, and they made that decision to pull, and then we watched the Karl Rove operation... collapse...

At press time, Rove detonated one of his grenades, destroying the clock tower and sending his dismembered body parts cascading to the ground.

At press time, Rove detonated one of his grenades, destroying the clock tower and sending his dismembered body parts cascading to the ground.

At press time, Rove detonated one of his grenades, destroying the clock tower and sending his dismembered body parts cascading to the ground.

Though if anything were an act of system-legitimizing brilliance, re-electing Obama would be it. Occupy must've taught them. They need us to believe in the system again.

Republican ideology is the new Osama, and Obama just got 'im. I hope Rove gets the full treatment right down to the Navy escort in a fresh pair of cement shoes, but I can't help but feel the warm, velvety tentacles of a reassuringly-comfortable gatekeeping narrative at play. "Mission Accomplished" banner spread triumphantly across the bridge of the U.S.S. Electoral College behind Obama's beaming smile. "In the battle of drastic electoral reform, the old system and its allies are victorious."

If Chris Knowles is at all right about the evangelical movement being a descendant mass-MK op, then the storytellers making the decisions at that level of the game could be absolutely counted on to maximize their opportunities for using evangelicalism for even broader social control aimed at keeping costs down for the ruling class while draining financial and human resources destined to be spent on populist institutional changes instead on fighting a well-funded machine of ignorance and insanity which includes but is not limited to the evangelical movement (which to me is inseparable from Republican ideology), to keep the 99% divided among themselves as much as possible, as indetectably as possible, and as scalably as possible, because they've seen what happens when too many diverse groups Generally Assemble and build consensus against them. They change the narrative.

Occupy was obviously somewhat unexpected and frightening to TPTB if the mayors and the cops and feds had to conspire on conference call bridges to synchronize paramilitary operations against them like some latter-day Night of the Long Knives. Honestly, I think the reason we haven't had overt and systematic Alex Jones Terrorstorm scenarios spreading like an ebola outbreak since the occupations were broken up is that they figured out it's getting fucking expensive to mount jackbooted counter-resistance efforts. Mass distraction, endless entrainment, super-efficient realtime digital intel capabilities, and quiet renditions in the middle of the night a la V for Vendetta are the cost-effective way of fascism's future, no doubt.

[8bitagent]

Yes, the Rove thing and that thinking crossed my mind as well. He thought he 'knew' something - maybe.

One has to wonder...reading the article, the billionares sure were convinced they had it all wrapped up to.

However, I caution that there has to be a difference between the frothing at the mouth Rove/billionares/GOP/neocons/Koch faction and what may possibly be true puppet masters. Those who could care little about social conservatives or parties, and simply need the right man in the seat for very specific time periods and events. That...or the wind truly just blows randomly. I can't even call it anymore.
Was Rove "guaranteed" a win? If the game was to flip enough votes in select Ohio precincts, it absolutely would need to be called off if it looked like Obama was to win all the other swing states and that the Romney "victory" would just be coming in too late and too suspicious.

Yet...they, as in the real they, do not need vote rigging. Plus, on the real end the Democrats were just that much better getting people in the mindset of the urgency to defeat a GOP who have evolved to a much more intollerable creature than ever

This clip from the end of The Pledge pretty much sums up Rove and all the people who were so so sure Romney would win

[82_28]

I think here's the deal as it sits now. America is sick of these motherfuckers. They're sick of being told what to do. The red to blue electoral map is crazy interesting. For instance it points out where Lawrence Kansas is and Omaha Nebraska right above it -- all in this sea of red. Yet in those red areas there are plenty of liberals or people just sick of what the right wing lies about and perhaps are all dying off. Sorry about that guys, we all gotta die. But all the counties still appear bright red.



It's a mystifying map. Rich liberals just pored over this thing today at the bar. The wingers have lost their base. I think that they will double down into something akin to brownshirts, but I also think that a lot of us are going to be doubling up to make this joint a more perfect union.

As far as I am concerned we have a mandate as constituency to force Obama's hand as far as drone bullshit et al and have the ability to shame the religious right into obscurity once and for all. This really, no matter what, is our chance to really change shit once and for all. This is it insofar as the 60's, 70's and 80's defined liberalism for those of us who were. The wingers and their corporate owners are already plotting the demise of probably an entire city, false flagged and all that.

They lost. And as wingers they are brought up and believe whole cloth that when they lose they really didn't. But they lost in myriad ways, not just the people we put in place but on the issues. They lost and they are losers and always will be. Sorry wingers, you'll still find a leftie to feel sorry for you cos that's just the way we are.

[8bitagent]

I remember getting a call from the, err... Board of Elections Commander... telling me they're not sure they're going to be able to contain the swing districts. And I said, you know, we've had such terrible loss of rights. Maybe the smartest thing to do is... is pull it. Uuh, and they made that decision to pull, and then we watched the Karl Rove operation... collapse...

Though if anything were an act of system-legitimizing brilliance, re-electing Obama would be it. Occupy must've taught them. They need us to believe in the system again.

Republican ideology is the new Osama, and Obama just got 'im. I hope Rove gets the full treatment right down to the Navy escort in a fresh pair of cement shoes, but I can't help but feel the warm, velvety tentacles of a reassuringly-comfortable gatekeeping narrative at play. "Mission Accomplished" banner spread triumphantly across the bridge of the U.S.S. Electoral College behind Obama's beaming smile. "In the battle of drastic electoral reform, the old system and its allies are victorious."

If Chris Knowles is at all right about the evangelical movement being a descendant mass-MK op, then the storytellers making the decisions at that level of the game could be absolutely counted on to maximize their opportunities for using evangelicalism for even broader social control aimed at keeping costs down for the ruling class while draining financial and human resources destined to be spent on populist institutional changes instead on fighting a well-funded machine of ignorance and insanity which includes but is not limited to the evangelical movement (which to me is inseparable from Republican ideology), to keep the 99% divided among themselves as much as possible, as indetectably as possible, and as scalably as possible, because they've seen what happens when too many diverse groups Generally Assemble and build consensus against them. They change the narrative.

LOL @ Larry Silverstein spoof quote. Obviously, the rancid Rove-ian GOP were not blessed by the true elite.

I repeat, Romney would have been terrible for the elite. The amount of people pissed as hell and mobilized, and awake after a Romney win would be deafening. They wouldnt be able to pull anything, Its pathetic the Glenn Becks and Alex Jones of the world believe it's some "secret commie socialist plot". It's not at all about such archaic notions. It may truly be about a real life matrix, or something we just cannot fathom. NOT AT ALL to take away from the truly historic wins in the senate and some state measures(and yes, the people did speak fair and square) I sadly do feel ultimately the (real) PTB are right on schedule with whatever horror show they have planned.

The evil Republicans were defeated, sent packing back to Mordor. Now, the magical mandate powers can be unleashed in spades. Do any of us really think there will now be any sort of organized left to hold the government accountable? Nope. The only "anti government" tools will be the Tea Party idiots, whom the PTB know are not a threat to the system.

[8bitagent]

The wingers have lost their base.

I've been fascinated by reading articles and seeing videos of GOP campaign managers, analysts, etc playing the blame game but ultimately saying that the GOP has to wake up and get more up to date as the "lets go as crazy nuthouse right wing as possible" shit aint working. The focus on anti abortion to the point we saw(the horrible rape comments we saw time and time again) cost every single one of those clowns seats. So they really did it to themselves. I agree with Psynapz that this is all too perfect to legitimize any horror that happens under Obama, but like all the classic double binds we discuss here: There's no doubt now that the conservative mindset is a scourge and is absolute incompatible with 2013 America. Many evangelicals/right wingers didnt vote. Whats that tell us? That Romney was too liberal for them? The GOP are pretty much blaming "too many minorities voted" as the main reason they lost.

It's hard for me to imagine the GOP will reform and cast out the crazies. I think it will embolden the pyramid. Wouldnt be surprised if there is no self censoring, and talking heads like Rush, Savage, O'reilly start saying the stuff they say in private(or that are in the comment section of hate group sites) on the airwaves.

[82_28]

Dude, he's a mormon. That's probably why and also why this "victory" could all be a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the issues that I am worried about, myself. Because shit festers. And as long as you have wingers you are going to have shit festering. Because they don't campaign. They propagandize and harass. They dumped their bullshit about Mormons because it is expedient to their overarching goal of straight up authoritarian overtaken-ness. I'd long called these fuckers out back in the day of not being an RI junkie and probably because it was in the '90's too. Ah, too many stories to tell. But one thing remains, never, ever trust anyone on the right. Ever. Try and be friends with them when you can and cool them off. But a winger will slit you in the throat at the same moment you're trying to get a hold of him to see how he's doing.

[8bitagent]

Dude, he's a mormon. That's probably why and also why this "victory" could all be a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the issues that I am worried about, myself. Because shit festers. And as long as you have wingers you are going to have shit festering. Because they don't campaign. They propagandize and harass. They dumped their bullshit about Mormons because it is expedient to their overarching goal of straight up authoritarian overtaken-ness. I'd long called these fuckers out back in the day of not being an RI junkie and probably because it was in the '90's too.

It's strange...I had nothing but loathing disgust for the right in the 90's. Newt's "contract with America", the rise of the religious right. The obsessive anti Clinton witch hunts.
Yet, somehow by 2005 I slowly got sucked into the Alex Jones bullshit...and while I winced at the "anti gay pastors are being discriminated against", "them illegals are flooding America" and "global warming is an Al Gore hoax"
bullshit(as well as all the gun worship) I tolerated it because I was excited to see "someone taking on the system". I mean I was always one step removed(I met some really dyed in the wool Alex Jones diciples at a conference in LA...unnerving) but I was like "why isnt the left talking about this stuff?" A lot of leftists I knew got sucked up into that.

Well now we see, that yes...Alex Jones is still the same bully 90's era patriot crowd and mindset. Maybe Im a masochist, but I tuned in out of curiosity the other night post election. Oh man...
"at least Romney wouldnt have gone after our guns and keep abortion legal!". He also seems to be full on into the socialist/commie agenda gonna get us mindset. Anyways I bring this up because yeah, you cannot trust conservatives even if they claim to be the Ron Paul sort.

[8bitagent]

Oh man, Rush Limbaugh after the election...he didn't disappoint.

"What do we have to do..open up abortion clinics, open the borders wide open for any illegal to come right in, and start handing out contraception?"(paraphrasing)

He then says the GOP has Condi Rice and "isnt that enough", because as he says, she's so "wellspoken". Oh man...you can't make this stuff up.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/bl ... s-20121108

[82_28]

I really do hate to say it, but never trust anyone on the right. Ever. This is why I've never gone with the Alex Jones thing even though I can possibly agree with him on a great many things. He's still a winger and I just don't trust wingers. My father never did (well for a little while before I woke him up right around 2003 with me crying on the phone), both grandfathers and one grandmother on mom's side, my mom and both great grandfathers. You can never ever trust a winger.

Never trust a winger of any stripe. Give them latitude but realize, first chance they will fuck you. It's just part of being a winger. Sure, have a beer or two and make them pay for it.