The loss of cliché comprehension in modern text

[JackRiddler]

That eggcorns site is funny and depressing. I think the worst I've done in public is substitute mute for moot. I blame middle age. I'll never forget the teasing and laughter of my teenage friends at my mispronunciation of the word impotent however. That's why I like the way the English say contribute. I rarely hear anyone pronounce Ayn Rand or Tolkien correctly.

How do you mispronounce impotent? If it's just the stress, if you say imPOtent, it's still the same word, can't be mistaken for another, and in fact emphasizes the meaning, the opposition to potency. I've got no problem with that. The other day a guy was saying that the af-FLOO-ent were not doing so well in the crisis, so I joked that the AF-fluent were but not the af-FLOO-ent. He took it like I was making fun of him (and this is a kid who's definitely a bigger brain than I) and practically got apologetic. I was actually sorry, I was just going for the joke, damn it. That's one of probably thousands of words where I consider multiple pronounciations acceptable.

Luther, ah, the history question. We all talk like it's the decline of civilization (as edumacateds have always done) but my guess is that eggcorns are no more frequent today than they were in the past. Possibly even on the decline, as you seem to imply: immigrant populations and different cultures smooth out into SAE over time. What you have more of today is people writing things extemporaneously that they would not have written before (see: higher college attendance, the Internet). In an effort to look smart they spell out phrases they've never read in print or that they rarely use themselves, and this is what you get.

[crikkett]

Here here, my head literally explodes, it needs to be reigned in.

I thought that one was spelled "Hear, hear"
http://www.unbecominglevity.com/categor ... etymology/

oh, I get it
also "reined in"
http://www.theolympian.com/2012/12/04/2 ... ds-to.html

[Luther Blissett]

Luther, ah, the history question. We all talk like it's the decline of civilization (as edumacateds have always done) but my guess is that eggcorns are no more frequent today than they were in the past. Possibly even on the decline, as you seem to imply: immigrant populations and different cultures smooth out into SAE over time. What you have more of today is people writing things extemporaneously that they would not have written before (see: higher college attendance, the Internet). In an effort to look smart they spell out phrases they've never read in print or that they rarely use themselves, and this is what you get.

I'm not sure. Some of my college professor friends like to anonymously post to a private forum hilariously bad passages from submitted papers, some of which are in fairly exclusive / expensive universities. I don't think we're seeing a decline of civilization, I only think we're seeing more talk of the decline of civilization. Few people have acknowledged that America has been steadily becoming a less violent society in the last week. It's almost as if one has to be brave to admit it. A friend of mine who works for Exxon and can be counted on to have the most logical yet corporatist opinion on any subject speculates that we're becoming more accepting to petty crimes like bicycle thievery and shoplifting, and that this damages society more. Also, I don't think he really believes the violent crime statistics; either they were over-reported in the past or are underreported now.

And totally apart from this is the richness of aave, which doesn't have much to do with misapplication of trite phrases, but is still an essentially "anti-English" vernacular. I consider aave historically important, and as fast-changing and fluid as patois.

[82_28]

82, do you live in Seattle proper? I feel like I am experiencing the opposite trend as I get older. My hometown was rife with these errors, and was always coupled with our strange Pennsylvania Dutch / Puerto Rican / Polish accent.

Whenever I hear "It's a pleasure to meet you," I immediately fire off in my brain the subsequent phrases "it's a pleat to measure you, it's a meat to pleasure you," but that's derived from a friend's old art piece, not an incomprehension.

I do indeed. There's another one, I suppose. How the fuck is Seattle pronounced SEA-ATTLE? It should be See-tle or Say-attle.

I remember once in 7th grade ditching a science class that I got in trouble for. When ultimately asked why, I responded that it was because the teacher couldn't spell. He could spell most words of course. But the glaring detail to me was when he wrote "CALENDER" on the chalkboard. I was like, "what kind of a teacher is this?"

And so I quit performing and just went and got into trouble instead. I'm not saying that I can spell every fucking word or know the meanings of a vast amount of words I've never had to use, but man, that "E" at the end of calendar really, really bugs me.

Here's a word that I cannot spell for the life of me and I thank god for spellcheck. Dunno why I can't learn to spell it on my own.

Beurocracy

See?

Beaurocracy

See again? And now with spellcheck.

Bureaucracy

Still can never get it right and I've typed and used the word thousands upon thousands of times.

[82_28]

That eggcorns site is funny and depressing. I think the worst I've done in public is substitute mute for moot. I blame middle age. I'll never forget the teasing and laughter of my teenage friends at my mispronunciation of the word impotent however. That's why I like the way the English say contribute. I rarely hear anyone pronounce Ayn Rand or Tolkien correctly.

How do you mispronounce impotent? If it's just the stress, if you say imPOtent, it's still the same word, can't be mistaken for another, and in fact emphasizes the meaning, the opposition to potency. I've got no problem with that. The other day a guy was saying that the af-FLOO-ent were not doing so well in the crisis, so I joked that the AF-fluent were but not the af-FLOO-ent. He took it like I was making fun of him (and this is a kid who's definitely a bigger brain than I) and practically got apologetic. I was actually sorry, I was just going for the joke, damn it. That's one of probably thousands of words where I consider multiple pronounciations acceptable.

Luther, ah, the history question. We all talk like it's the decline of civilization (as edumacateds have always done) but my guess is that eggcorns are no more frequent today than they were in the past. Possibly even on the decline, as you seem to imply: immigrant populations and different cultures smooth out into SAE over time. What you have more of today is people writing things extemporaneously that they would not have written before (see: higher college attendance, the Internet). In an effort to look smart they spell out phrases they've never read in print or that they rarely use themselves, and this is what you get.

Reminds me of a slightly racist joke as a kid.

Why did the black guy wear a tux to his vasectomy?

If I'm gonna be impotent I'm gonna look impotent.

[82_28]

As to another point that Jack brings up and Luther as well as far as history. Why is it my granny back east in PA says WARshington or WARsh as opposed to the "proper" way?

Why is it when my dad, from PA always called my mom "MOM" when in Colorado, but as soon as he got back to PA and was around his family and old culture, it became "MUM"?

"You guys" turned into "you-uns" or just "yuns"? Get back to Colorado and he would slip right out of it.

edit:

To add, why were my grandparents out west, where I was raised called grandma and grandma, while back east they were referred to as granny and pap-pap?

[Belligerent Savant]

I grade the papers of people who want to become doctors. Here is my partial collection:

peaked my curiosity

one must curve one's expectations

which basically sealed his faith

without further to do

it was like an outer body experience

for all intensive purposes

while he could never completely exercise his demons

but that is a mute point

it could become our death nail

they made him the escape goat

but he cut off his nose despite his face

many people take it for granite that

he was chopping at the bit

God for bid!

but his friend did not want to still his thunder

while some feel such statements are way out of bounce

or something of that elk

tenants of democracy

many such theories were left by the waste side

a plight on our nation

if they are false profits, we'll know soon enough

the right to bare arms

as opposed to the former, the ladder example

of upmost importance

covering all basis

the army is not for pre-madonnas

that court decision set a president

and thus they proved their medal

inherit to the nature of freedom

but it turned into a fee for all

ravished by injuries

add odds

at hoc

maybe I'm bias, but ...

very inciteful

Brilliant stuff.

I've encountered some similar gems at the workplace, where communications via email is considered a crucial skill:

"haven't seen him... he may be a wall"

"I'm on root to the office"

"I may not have the band with to assist"

"Our roll in this new project.."

"It's important we set the proper president"

"let's sink up later.."

"he's traveling oversees"

"There are some caviars we must consider.."

"I would air on the side of caution.."

Dreadful. Many of the above snippets were sent off by those in "upper mgmt".

I think this pretty much sums it up:

I can't help but think that when people write things as they hear them that they must not be readers and that therefore they must not be very literate. If you read enough these sorts of things correct themselves.

[JackRiddler]

If only the crew of the Titanic had known how to sink up.

[wintler2]

Thanks for sharing, they're ace, i'm going to try & slip some into xmas smalltalk, see if anyone notices. Mute point, escape goat, and curving expectations, i think.

[82_28]

Haha, Wintler. Do it. That also reminds me of another instance of doing such a thing.

I worked at a restaurant for ten years that had peanut sauce. But I got the bright idea and spread it around to those who had a sense of humor, to say "penis sauce" instead of peanut sauce.

"Would you like penis sauce with that?"

Good times.

[undead]

[barracuda]

God for bid!

There's a deep truth in that one.

[DrEvil]

Stickdog, that list is fantastic. Escape goat indeed ("Yes! And you will never catch me! MWAHAHA." **swishes cape**).

A couple of repeat offenders I've noticed: to "ring someone's neck" and "low and behold".

[Elvis]

I'm racking my brain to think of more....


and yes, Stickdog's list is terrific (thanks!); my favorite: "or something of that elk"

[NeonLX]

None of this jives with my experience.