The trouble with magic....

[sw]

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[Col Quisp]

To Professor Pan:<br><br>You know that the Lord's Prayer is sorta like the Thelemite Lesser Banishing Ritual, right?<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.billheidrick.com/tlc1998/tlc0998.htm">www.billheidrick.com/tlc1998/tlc0998.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>One of the basic practices in the personal ritual training of many Thelemites, whether in beginning or advanced operations, is the little Hebrew prayer which we know as the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. Taught in its current form to members of the Golden Dawn, it is based upon formulae for personal protection which can be found in medieval qabalistic rituals, very likely representing established traditions of even greater antiquity. Most of us are familiar with the "doxology" (prayer of praise) in the opening "qabalistic cross," a version in Hebrew of the liturgical phrase interpolated into Protestant translations of the "Lord's Prayer." This phrase (which is not present in the oldest Greek gospel texts and has been excluded from Catholic translations), is a list of three of the sephirot on the Tree of Life: "for thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever, amen." The four archangels summoned in the corners of the circle were also associated with the magic of personal protection in Renaissance qaballah, again very likely giving us a record of practices established much earlier. A popular allegorical figure of the "Palace of Health" representing the human body as a castle, defended by four personal guardian angels at four gates from the outside onslaught of harm and disease, can be found in various medieval versions, often with the same angelic names which are "vibrated" in the LBR. The phrase establishing a pillar of force between two stars is adapted from a medieval Hebrew "night prayer," a blessing summoning the angelic guardians upon retirement. Associations such as these can be made meaningful on several levels, and Crowley once wrote of the LBR (in a footnote to one of his early poetic volumes), "Those who regard this ritual as a mere device to invoke or banish spirits, are unworthy to possess it. Properly understood, it is the Medicine of Metals and the Stone of the Wise."<br><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>So by reciting the Lord's Prayer to cause change in accordance with your Will, you were creating your own ritual. Pretty cool! By reciting it over and over, you probably worked yourself into a state where you could suspend your disbelief such that your desire was manifest. <br><br>I've always wondered if Catholics get into some kind of trance when they do the "hail Mary" chant for hours on end.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[proldic]

Sit-in to save TennCare <br> Archive Recent Editions 2005 Editions July 23, 2005 <br>Author: Carolyn Taylor<br> People's Weekly World Newspaper, 07/21/05 10:39 <br> <br> <br>NASHVILLE, Tenn. — Tennessee health care activists have been sitting in since June 20 at the Statehouse to demand that Gov. Phil Bredesen (D) stop the threatened cut of 325,000 from the TennCare roles. Tenncare is the state’s expanded Medicaid program. <br><br>Glenn Barnhill, who uses a wheelchair and needs the assistance of a respirator to breathe, came to the protest with the help of his home health aide. Barnhill said: “They’re going to put us in a situation where I will have to be put in a nursing home. If I go back to that I will have one nurse per 30 to 60 patients. I will be laying in my bed, flat on my back, gasping for breath, waiting for someone to help me. I feel that is inhumane. TennCare has given me a lot of freedom and made my life worth living.” <br><br>If the governor does not address this crisis, people will die, said a statement released by the Nashville Peace and Justice Center. Medical professionals, civil rights advocates and people of conscience have joined the patients and others to be cut from the program. “We are people with different cultures, backgrounds, and abilities but all of us come with a common understanding that TennCare is essential for the most vulnerable in Tennessee,” the statement said. <br><br>Enrollees say they will stay as long as needed, even under the risk of arrest. They are calling on supporters to contact the governor’s office atphil.bredesen@state.tn.us. <br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[professorpan]

Col. Q,<br><br>I do think repetitious prayer, regardless of the words, is an effective trance induction technique. It's part of nearly every religious and spiritual tradition.<br><br>An interesting exercise: pick any word with more than 2 syllables. Repeat it, out loud, over and over. It quickly feels like you're speaking nonsense, and the word loses its meaning.<br><br>People listening to a tape recording of the same word or phrase over and over begin hearing phantom words -- I wish I had the reference, but I can't find it. <p></p><i></i>

[prunesquallori]

AFAICT, all "real magic" is involved with altering consciousness in some way, generally rooted in an emanationist metaphysic. If you understand the emanationist (hermetic, perennial philosophy) viewpoint, you'll understand why this must be so.<br><br>I have not come across any system of magic that did not include some alteration of consciousness that ever appeared to be more than a superstition.<br><br>This can be seen in chaos magick and sigils, and older magicians like Franz Bardon. Serious digging in any magical topic from before the Positivist revolution usually turns up credible info. <p></p><i></i>

[Dreams End]

But I'm still looking for stories showing that magic might actually DO something. <p></p><i></i>

[ZeroHaven]

DreamsEnd, I think you may be among the wrong demographic for what you seek. <br>Those who tend to think more logically and/or are analytical enough to keep up with RI, are less likely to think along the lines of pure mysticism. On my "ghost study" board I recently saw an article that said <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://mysticalblaze.com/GhostsNature.htm" target="top">the higher your IQ, the less likely you are to experience ghostly phenomena</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->. Their unwritten logic does extend to magic as well.<br><br>The dictionary.com says "The art that purports to control or forecast natural events, effects, or forces by invoking the supernatural. "<br>Ok, we invoke something "Of or relating to existence outside the natural world."<br>Under this definition, I myself do not believe in "magic" because I do not believe there ARE forces outside the natural world. Then the question becomes, how do we define nature? Let's not go there. <br><br>If by magic you mean "The practice of using charms, spells, or rituals to attempt to produce supernatural effects or control events in nature."<br>Well, I don't like the "supernatural" in this definition so I ignore it. If it's outside of nature it can't be observed to have an effect, so who cares?<br><br>SO, can using charms, incantations, and so on produce an effect on nature? It sure can, but to the logical thinker the forces at work have other other names. It's psychology, it's physics, psychosomatic and telekinetic. The list goes on.<br><br>One time I was with a self-proclaimed "wizard" person and broke one of her 'precious' rune stones by merely thinking about it. (It was a vengeful thought, I was mad) Magic?<br>To the three witnesses, yes. But not to me.<br><br>Back to the "love spells", yes I've seen them work. Usually it's because the caster believes the spell works. S/he relaxes, becomes more confident and natural, and therefore is automatically more appealing to their target Magic? <br>To them, yes. But not to a psychologist.<br><br>American Indian rain dances, Voodoo dolls and such must have actually had some results otherwise those practices would have been abandoned centuries ago. Is it magic? To some people, yes it sure is. <br>I'm willing to call it "magic" when discussing with people who want to believe. Otherwise, it's just science.<br> <p><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a239/ZeroHaven/tinhat.gif"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></p><i></i>

[Dreams End]

I'm not so sure. There are lots of "materialists" here, but the very thesis of this site is that not only is there some sort of occult underground that is shaping history, but that this underground MAY, with a capital M, actually produce some "supernatural" results. Now, maybe one day they won't be thought of as supernatural...who knows.<br><br>Consider the idea that our "gray aliens" look spookily like the being Crowley says he conjured up.<br><br>What brought up the post is that I started reading Levander's book. He easily and definitively shows that people involved in the occult (for this post, I'll avoid any value judgments on that) have been wrapped up in much of our countries history...usually right in the middle of big events. But he ALSO suggests that it's not just a belief system at work...that some sorts of forces came into play, released by these folks. That part is really only hinted at so far, but his three volume work is really one book and volume one just kind of ends with everything up in the air.<br><br>If I have time, I'll do a full review of the book, but since that is the book's thesis and since people on this board have read the book and considerd this thesis in their own ways, I posted this topic.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[Col Quisp]

Ok, you want a story that magic(k) actually does something. My husband was a mage. The day before he died, he did a "spell" (for lack of a better word) that one of his co-workers (who made very little money) would win the super bowl jackpot. My husband died during the super bowl. The man won the jackpot, I learned when he came by my house to drop off my husband's belongings from work.<br><br>He was always doing little things like that, esp. to help others. This is just one example. He cautioned me against using the "system" to harm others though. Sometimes I believe in it, sometimes I don't. But yes, it DOES work. <p></p><i></i>

[mercator]

"There is no use in arguing with a man whose mind is disturbed by waxen images placed at his own door, or<br>on the sepulchre of his father or mother, or at a spot where three ways meet. But to the wizards themselves we must address a solemn preamble, begging them not to treat the world as if they were children ..."<br><br>- Plato, <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Laws</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> 933b<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[dreamswife]

But magic DOES work! About 8 years ago, as a single mom of a 6 year old, I was sick and tired of dating men with whom I had nothing in common and honestly I had given up the hope of ever meeting anyone I wanted to spend more than a couple hours with. I was just starting to re-explore my spirituality (I now consider myself a pagan agnostic with buddist tendencies) and a Wiccan friend lent me a book with a bunch of rituals in it. Shrugging, I decided it couldn't hurt, and performed a ritual in which I would draw my ideal mate to me. I won't bore you with the details of the ritual, only that it included making a careful list of all the qualities that an ideal mate would have. It was a long list for me, and after completing it, I had to admit, I didn't think anyone in the world existed who could meet all of my requirements. But I put all of my energy into it and I do have to say that afterward I felt....something. And then I forgot about it. <br><br>A couple of months later, I met someone at a party...started dating...fell in love. 9 months later, while going through some old papers, I found that list. and he met EVERY SINGLE quality. It made me a believer, even though I did shake my head a few times and wonder why I had left "fabulously wealthy" off the list! We've now been together for almost 8 years and married for the last 3. <br><br>I've done many, much smaller, less life-changing magick since then with some success...more than I would expet from coincidence, and NEVER anything "bad" or "evil". I won't go on though, I've rambled long enough.<br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[anotherdrew]

dreamswife, Jane Roberts and Seth would be able to explain that quite nicely. YCYOR<br><br>anyone know about them? <p></p><i></i>

[dreamswife]

I'm sorry anotherdrew, but I'm not sure what you mean when you say "explain that quite nicely". Explain what?<br><br>(Oh, and I am familiar with Jane Roberts and Seth - read one book...didn't like it. I guess I'm not into the whole channeling thing) <p></p><i></i>

[Project Willow]

Sw, thanks for sharing about Annie Marie. I understand about the doll. I have relationships like that with some of my paintings. I sold one particular painting and ended up crying half the night about it, until I realized I had to reassure a part of myself that just because her portrait was gone, it didn't mean she would be forgotten. (I hate what money does in this world).<br><br>Yes, I have seen that light around the Core. The first time I saw it... and now I can't find words for this experience, no, I can't, it's beyond words.<br><br>And I was going to give my materialist position on magic, as I am close to being in agreement with ZeroHaven on the issue, though that feels a bit awkward at the moment. Obviously there is more here/there than is explicable, but it's not really about magic.<br><br>I still have no words to describe it, but I know that light is the source of my survival so far.<br><br>(edited to change reference) <p>PW</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=projectwillow@rigorousintuition>Project Willow</A> at: 7/29/05 7:30 pm<br></i>

[sw]

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