Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

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Re:

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:46 pm

Perelandra wrote:FFS
Man who helped Sandy Hook kids is harassed by conspiracy theorists

A man who found six children in his driveway in Newtown, Conn., after their teacher had been shot and killed in last month's school massacre has become the target of conspiracy theorists who believe the shootings were staged.

“I don’t know what to do,” Gene Rosen told Salon.com. “I’m getting hang-up calls, I’m getting some calls, I’m getting emails with, not direct threats, but accusations that I’m lying, that I’m a crisis actor, ‘How much am I being paid?'”

Rosen, a 69-year-old retired psychologist who lives near Sandy Hook Elementary School where the shootings took place, says his inbox is filled with emails like this one:

"How are all those little students doing? You know, the ones that showed up at your house after the ‘shooting’. What is the going rate for getting involved in a gov’t sponsored hoax anyway?"

“The quantity of the material is overwhelming,” Rosen said, adding that he's sought the advice of a retired state police officer and plans to alert the FBI.


Mission fucking accomplished.

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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Elihu » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:48 pm

barracuda wrote:It's tough to make ballistics determinations from looking at those pictures, but just offhand, it seems like a .223 could easily make those holes. What particular type of .223 ammo was being fired is a question that has yet to be addressed, like all the rest of the results of this investigation.


The Savage Model 25 proved to be capable of jaw-dropping accuracy, as shown by these 100-yard benchrest groups using two handloads and Winchester's 62-grain factory load.
pretty small. 62 grain is toward the largest 223 projectile, humping along at 2750 fps. the 36 grain goes about 3750. even smaller hole? i don't know man. on top of being larger than these, the holes in the car seem very jagged. a larger, slower bullet? 9mm? will we ever know? they sleep with the 911 black boxes now...
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby compared2what? » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:05 pm

Elihu wrote:
The Savage Model 25 proved to be capable of jaw-dropping accuracy, as shown by these 100-yard benchrest groups using two handloads and Winchester's 62-grain factory load.
pretty small. 62 grain is toward the largest 223 projectile, humping along at 2750 fps. the 36 grain goes about 3750. even smaller hole? i don't know man. on top of being larger than these, the holes in the car seem very jagged. a larger, slower bullet? 9mm? will we ever know? they sleep with the 911 black boxes now...


No they don't. When the investigation is finished, Connecticut has to make almost the whole work-product of the law enforcement agencies that worked on it available to anyone who takes the trouble to ask. And for stuff like ballistics, there's very little they can do to increase how much trouble that is, even when they have a reason to. It's too covered by FOIA to be debatable. It'd just be like handing the ACLU a bonus victory for no reason at all.

And nobody who's that self-destructive can make it far enough in politics to get to be the man, really. It's one of life's naturally occurring little checks and balances.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Jerky » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:21 pm

Jesus Fucking Nailholes. We, as a people, really are reaping the disinformation whirlwind that has been sown since 9/11. Or was it since the death of JFK? Since the Nazi ratlines, post-WWII? Or since Pearl Harbor? Since the US got suckered into the Great War? Since the explosion of the Maine? Since the Alamo?

Maybe since Cain slew Abel? Godzilla only knows.

Oh, and by the way, bullets going through paper ALWAYS make a much smaller holes than bullets pushing through metal. Just FYI.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby 82_28 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:38 pm

justdrew wrote:
8bitagent wrote:My friend called me up all upset, saying "man I cant believe the whole thing was a hoax", as before he got irate at the mere mention of conspiracy theories.


find out why he's saying that, could it be he expects you to think that? I don't know, but I'd like to know what persuaded him to think thank.


Largely ignored and I don't mind, but I still have to see any proof anyone was on those 9/11 flights. Still. There is nothing there in that yarn that I 100% believe. I graciously admit I do not know. But there has never been anyone who has come forward and said "yeah, that was my husband" or some shit. It was all propagandized and politicized much too quickly to keep up with. Thus, I trust none of the "official narrative" and prefer to peer into only us leftist, RI kinda peeps, for any kind of "new information".

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Postby IanEye » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:13 pm

82_28 wrote:
Largely ignored and I don't mind, but I still have to see any proof anyone was on those 9/11 flights. Still. There is nothing there in that yarn that I 100% believe. I graciously admit I do not know. But there has never been anyone who has come forward and said "yeah, that was my husband" or some shit.


Doug Gowell was a real person.
I feel very confident that the people who show up at his memorial every September 11th are his family members, as opposed to "crisis actors".
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby compared2what? » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:02 pm

82_28 wrote:
justdrew wrote:
8bitagent wrote:My friend called me up all upset, saying "man I cant believe the whole thing was a hoax", as before he got irate at the mere mention of conspiracy theories.


find out why he's saying that, could it be he expects you to think that? I don't know, but I'd like to know what persuaded him to think thank.


Largely ignored and I don't mind, but I still have to see any proof anyone was on those 9/11 flights. Still. There is nothing there in that yarn that I 100% believe. I graciously admit I do not know. But there has never been anyone who has come forward and said "yeah, that was my husband" or some shit.


I know someone who says some shit that fits those specs. FWIW. Just an acquaintance. But longtime and apparently as genuine as any. Seemed sincere.

Wait, though. What would count as coming forward?
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby stoneonstone » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:44 pm

How extraordinary. Buried in the very last line of an article by reporter Andrew Gorosko, heded only obliquely to the Sandy Hook massacre information "As Shooting Probe Progresses Police Union Seeks Funding For Trauma Treatment"

http://newtownbee.com/News/2012-12-27__ ... 0Treatment


"A man with a gun who was spotted in the woods near the school on the day of the incident was an off-duty tactical squad police officer from another town, according to the source." (earlier in the last part of the article, the source is tagged "According to a reliable local law enforcement source..."

As Jon Stewart likes to say 'Go on. You have my attention.'...

But that's all that's dropped out there. No further details.

No filing date that I can readily locate. (dec 27 apparently in url)
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Elihu » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:52 pm

a larger, slower bullet? 9mm? will we ever know? they sleep with the 911 black boxes now...

No they don't. When the investigation is finished, Connecticut has to make almost the whole work-product of the law enforcement agencies that worked on it available to anyone who takes the trouble to ask. And for stuff like ballistics, there's very little they can do to increase how much trouble that is, even when they have a reason to. It's too covered by FOIA to be debatable.
well shoot (no pun intended). if you can't trust the man, who can you trust? i'm sure every link in the chain of evidence would be strong enough to support a teal-green whatever..
We, as a people, really are reaping the disinformation whirlwind that has been sown since 9/11. Or was it since the death of JFK? Since the Nazi ratlines, post-WWII? Or since Pearl Harbor? Since the US got suckered into the Great War? Since the explosion of the Maine? Since the Alamo? Maybe since Cain slew Abel? Godzilla only knows. Oh, and by the way, bullets going through paper ALWAYS make a much smaller holes than bullets pushing through metal. Just FYI.
man i don't care. it doesn't matter. cuda calculated it was like 1 in 250 of a car outside being hit by a random member of a group of bullets being spewed inside the building? so if i can de-offend you on the ballistics opinion, the patterns on that car take that explanation to what? zillions to one? so i'll have to agree with you. reaping the whirlwind of bs. no end in sight. so on to the next question of relevance. after the "watered down measures" get passed, what if anything does the legislature need to do to address these homicidal zombies (increasing in frequency and number mind you) that society is producing? i mean, no one has said that it is the high quantity magazines that are causing the psychotic development, have they? i thought it was disaffection, basements, bullies, video games and SSRI's right? but forget it. it's obvious that the desire is to de-claw the kitty cats. thenceforth they'll just be cuddly...
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:05 am

I love you guys. And I know I sometimes support pretty wild theories, but I just can't get on board with the 'fake deaths' conspiracy stuff RE: 9/11, Sandy Hook, etc.
It makes no logical sense. If we believe "they" invaded Iraq and got a million Iraqis killed, what's a few dozen, hundred or several thousand Americans?
They psychopaths love death. I wouldnt be surprised if Iraq 2003, the holocaust, etc was done almost purely out of an almost occult worship of death.
"Fake deaths" wouldnt satisfy their bloodlust or jollies.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Belligerent Savant » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:30 am

.

[I pass this along with no editorializing -- for now... I have little to add that hasn't already been stated somewhere within the 42+ pages of this thread]

http://gawker.com/5976204/behind-the-sa ... n-one-week

"This is a simple, logical video," the text on the screen reads. "No aliens, holigrams, rituals or anything like that, just facts." (All sic.) There's some light piano (from Guns 'n Roses' "Estranged") playing in the background. "New information comes up every single days, so by the time you see this video there may be a lot more evidence that has come to light." In a few seconds, the guitar solo kicks in.

You're watching "The Sandy Hook Shooting - Fully Exposed," the most comprehensive summary of the bizarre "Sandy Hook Truther" movement you can find on the internet. It's also the most popular: in the seven days since it was posted, it's racked up 5.5 million hits. "I... honestly would have spent more time on it if I had known it would explode," the guy who created the video told me.
It only took a few days after Adam Lanza opened fire inside Sandy Hook Elementary School for conspiracy theories to pop up on the internet. We covered a bunch of them at the time, each less likely than the last: Lanza's father was due to testify in hearings about a banking scandal, and the shooting was a distraction; Obama orchestrated the shootings to enact gun control laws; The Dark Knight Returns and/or Hunger Games predicted the shooting.

As it turns out, the one that stuck was maybe the most unlikely of all: the Sandy Hook elementary shooting never happened at all. Or, that it did, in some way, but not as it was reported — there was more than one shooter, or not as many children died, or the parents we saw on television were actors.

Over the last month or so, the "Sandy Hook Truther" movement has taken hold in the usual channels of internet conspiracy — sites like InfoWars and Natural News, message boards like Godlike Productions and Above Top Secret, and most importantly, on YouTube, where self-produced mini-documentaries like "The Sandy Hook Shooting - Fully Exposed" can make the leap from obscurity to viral success without any mainstream coverage at all.

"[I]t all started when me and my friends used to research 9/11 in high school," the auteur behind the video told me over email. (He declined to give me a name or personal information, "due to the sensitivity of the channel and my concern for my security," and signed his emails T.O.T.V., after his YouTube channel's title "ThinkOutsidetTheTV.") "That's what really got me started when it came to researching government cover ups [...] Once I learned about all the false flag attacks in history that have been proven to be true, I knew it was only a matter of time before another came a long."

The "false flag attack," in which the true belligerents of a terrorist attack, shooting, or disaster conceal their identities, is a common trope among conspiracy theorists, especially 9/11 Truthers, who believe the U.S. government (or another actor) destroyed the Twin Towers and pinned the attacks on Al Qaeda. If you believe in the idea that false flag attacks occur with regularity — and spend a lot of time in the conspiracy dregs of YouTube — it's hard not to see them everywhere.

"When Sandy Hook first happened i just had a feeling like it was all too perfect," T.O.T.V. continued. "I just had this feeling deep down that these people and the whole town had this artificial vibe about them." The perceived "artificiality" of the grieving parents is a cornerstone piece of "evidence" produced by Sandy Hook Truther: SandyHookHoax.com, the premiere Sandy Hook Truther site on the web, has an entire section called "All Actors," under an enormous header reading "NO TEARS," devoted to videos of families deemed insufficiently grief-stricken.

Gene Rosen, a Newtown man who sheltered six children at his home near the school and later gave an emotional television interview, appears in T.O.T.V.'s video accompanied by the caption: "FUN FACT: Gene is a member of the Screen Actors Guild, look it up!" (He's not — the widely-circulated "proof" shows a 62-year-old SAG member named Gene Rosen; Gene Rosen of Newtown is 69.) As Alex Seitz-Wald, owning the Sandy Hook Truther beat at Salon, writes, Rosen has been the subject of harassment and accusation from Truthers:

There have been phony Google+ and YouTube accounts created in his name, messages on white supremacist message boards ridiculing the "emotional Jewish guy," and dozens of blog posts and videos "exposing" him as a fraud. One email purporting to be a business inquiry taunted: "How are all those little students doing? You know, the ones that showed up at your house after the ‘shooting'. What is the going rate for getting involved in a gov't sponsored hoax anyway?"

The idea that the U.S. government is somehow behind the shooting is widespread. Jay Johnson, who runs SandyHookHoax.com, thinks that the operation may have been a cover-up for the murder of Adam Lanza's mother, who "was costing his dad a lot of money": "Peter Lanza is reportedly an executive with GE, which is locally into genetic research and closely tied to the Obama regime." (Lanza does work for G.E., which is not "into" genetic research, and is not particularly "closely tied" to the current administration.)

Like many of his fellow conspiracists Johnson, who describes himself as "the New Age Messiah" and "the only person in the world to solve LOST" — the TV show — cites the confusion around the initial reports as a reason to believe his conspiracy. "There were early reports [Peter Lanza] was killed, and that is an impossibility, that such a thing would be randomly falsely reported. So, there has to be an unseen hand (unnamed law enforcement officials) feeding disinformation and misinformation, maybe to form an incomprehensible web to dissuade or confuse investigations?" There's an odd but unsurprising overdetermination to this line of thought — if early reports are conflicting, it's evidence of a conspiracy of misinformation; if everyone agrees on the story, it's a cover-up.

But mostly Johnson sticks to I'm-just-asking: the conspiracy is "offered as food for thought." For his part, T.O.T.V. takes the same stance, in email as in his video. "I really try to stress this video was about putting together a bunch of evidence and raising questions that others could research and answer," he wrote.

"I never intended to expose who was behind it because I dont know, and I could be wrong. But history repeats itself and i'm really glad people are waking up to it. [...] People seem to mistake my video for exploitation of victims and children and that is totally wrong. As I said in the beginning of the video, we in no way claim this shooting did not take place and our hearts go out to anyone affected by the tragedy, weather one person was responsible or another. [... S]tay tuned for part 2, we have learned from the first one how to improve upon the delivery so hopefully it will be even better than the first."


From the comments section to the above posting:

When you want someone to take your word on something incredibly complicated and far-fetched, be sure to include LOTS of spelling errors. That's usually a sign of tremendous forethought and credibility.


The most disgusting aspect of the Sandy Hook Truthers are the "Grief Police" who seem to think that because one of the victims parents didn't act in a grieffy enough way, it must be a conspiracy. Any psychologist or counselor will tell you that there is no "normal" way to grieve. Some people remain completely stoic and logical; others emotionally break down. Still others feel so overwhelmed by emotion that they only way they know how to respond is through laughter or humor. So STFU Sandy Hook truthers and stop telling people the correct way to grieve. Especially when giving interviews to the media, many people just aren't going to become the blubbering walruses that you think all grieving parents must act like. It's not a conspiracy. It's a diversity of human emotional responses to an extremely tragic situation. Reality doesn't fit so neatly into your narrow minded, "it all makes sense," world view.


Also, drugs. A classmate of mine was killed in a car accident in high school, her mother was so distraught they had to drug her (Ativan) so she could get through the memorials and services. My friend's dad committed suicide, same thing, she and her mother had enough klonopin to last a lifetime. I hate that these people can't see outside of their own bullshit.


Thank you! A lot of these people were still in such shock and confusion.
It PAINS me to see that Robbie Parker was so scrutinized for "laughing" before he talked about Emilie. That was most likely a nervous laugh! None of these people know how to feel!
I hate when they scrutinize Grace's parents too, for smiling while talking to Anderson Cooper about Grace. They were smiling because they were talking and reflecting on their beautiful daughter.
I completely reiterate what stacyinbean said, so many of these people are on drugs to just get through their fucking day and can still barely come to the realization that their most precious loves, their children, are gone.
As a resident of Newtown, I am truly disgusted with all the people that are believing this. My town is still grieving and heartbroken, and none of these sick people are helping.


I second the commenter who suggested drugs as an explanation. My cousin dropped dead of a heart attack at age 27. To get through his funeral, my mother, my aunt, and I all took Xanax that a friend gave us. We were able to talk about Roy and laugh as we remembered funny things about him. We could not have cried if we tried. I did try to cry because I felt weird sitting at his funeral dry eyed. I felt like others were looking at us weird because we weren't crying. I'm sure parents dealing with the death of their young child AND the national news media would have what we call here in the south "nerve pills."


Seriously - I have to wonder if any of these fucking "Truthers" have ever lost a loved one? My dad died suddenly a year and a half ago from a heart attack. He had been a textbook perfect example of "how to not have a heart attack," so it was completely unexpected. The hospital told us he passed out at the grocery store, and wouldn't tell us more until we got there - and in the little private room, like they do. When they told me my dad had a heart attack and died, I didn't cry. I didn't express sadness. I just couldn't process it. It seemed like they were talking about someone else. For the longest time, it seemed like he was on a long out of town trip, like he sometimes would take. I did cry when I saw his body, and at the funeral, but the past year and a half has been so insane and I've spent most of my time taking care of other people with their own life problems, that I feel like I haven't had time to grieve. It comes in bursts, but it's not a pattern that anyone can replicate or assign as "the right way."

I am fucking flabbergasted as these pieces of shits - to let their paranoia, their masturbatory gun obsession, guide their basic dismissal of decency and common sense. And further, to harass family members of the dead. It's fucking unreal and an unforgivable level of assholery.


you are so patriotic, but sadly you are wrong. i can not name my inside sources who work with the government, but yes, this was stage to affect millions of americans to give in to ban gun laws in the long run. remember my words, Obama not long from now will deliver a speech on possible banning guns if not almost impossible to obtain a gun legally through all kinds of paper work and drug test of individual and family members.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Nordic » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:11 am

So. The result now, and one that is being deliberately and aggressively pushed by tbe media, is thst anyone who is a "conspiracy theorist" or uses the terms "truther" or "truth movement" or who understands about false flags, is a freaking loon, and a nasty insensitive one at that, basically the same grade Z of vermin that populate the Westboro Baptist Church.

A real conspiracist theorist might wonder if that was the very purpose of this event, no?

That and ever more "divide and conquer" internecine warfare between the "we have to do something about guns!" crowd and the "leave our fucking guns alone" crowd.

What a blatant exercise in mindfuckery is going on right now, regardless of who or why or how those kids died.

Milk it baby, yeah that's it. It's so weird now to see, now that I actually see it, how the media manipulates this every which direction, and nobody asks about how much of this stuff, meaning the "conspiracy theories", may actually be false flags themselves!!

I'm thinking the PTB'ers are wishing they'd done this right after 911 to deal with those pesky CT'ers.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:20 am

Elihu wrote:cuda calculated it was like 1 in 250 of a car outside being hit by a random member of a group of bullets being spewed inside the building?


You misunderstood me. I was commenting on the odds of any particular car in that particular parking lot being hit (assuming that ANY car actually DID happen to be hit out of the 40 cars in the parking lot, of which three in fact did), in regards to the odds that a hit car would belong to a victim.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:52 am

Nordic wrote:...anyone who is a "conspiracy theorist" or uses the terms "truther" or "truth movement" or who understands about false flags, is a freaking loon, and a nasty insensitive one at that, basically the same grade Z of vermin that populate the Westboro Baptist Church.


It's not out of the realm of possibility that this really was the case even before anyone died at Sandy Hook Elementary School. I mean, have you visited Godlike Productions (58,398 daily visitors), or Infowars (392,157 daily visitors), or Vigilant Citizen (42,222 daily visitors), or Above Top Secret (165,877 daily visitors), or Rense (110,358 daily visitors), or..? Well, you get the picture. Roughly 80% of the folks on those sites fit your description to a tee. Knowing what a false flag is doesn't disqualify you from being a chump.

Oh, and Elihu: yeah, I pulled that 80% figure out of my ass. Totally. No regrets, though.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:56 am

Nordic wrote:So. The result now, and one that is being deliberately and aggressively pushed by tbe media, is thst anyone who is a "conspiracy theorist" or uses the terms "truther" or "truth movement" or who understands about false flags, is a freaking loon, and a nasty insensitive one at that, basically the same grade Z of vermin that populate the Westboro Baptist Church.

A real conspiracist theorist might wonder if that was the very purpose of this event, no?

That and ever more "divide and conquer" internecine warfare between the "we have to do something about guns!" crowd and the "leave our fucking guns alone" crowd.

What a blatant exercise in mindfuckery is going on right now, regardless of who or why or how those kids died.

Milk it baby, yeah that's it. It's so weird now to see, now that I actually see it, how the media manipulates this every which direction, and nobody asks about how much of this stuff, meaning the "conspiracy theories", may actually be false flags themselves!!

I'm thinking the PTB'ers are wishing they'd done this right after 911 to deal with those pesky CT'ers.



I sometimes get the feeling the " PTB " didnt need to do a thing after 9/11. All it took was bullhorners, no planers, "GOOGLE BUILDING 7 IDIOTS!" and a severely hostile environment. 2006 was the year questioning 9/11(sadly, only the "physical anomalies") was hip and trendy. Everyone from your mail man to next door neighbor was "asking questions" about 9/11, as it was...again, the hip water cooler thing. Now, I'd almost be willing to bet a good portion of the liberals who questioned 9/11 at one time are back solidly in the "al Qaeda dun it" camp especially when Obama came into office.

I just read that Gawker article. Of the youtube videos about banking scandal ties between the Aurora and Sandy Hook shooter dads, reports of second shooters, and Batman movie syncs...the "Sandy Hook kids didnt die"
one gets all the attention? Fuck.

Add in the right wing thats about to go apeshit with Obama announcing tough new gun restrictions via executive orders, and I can almost see where all this is heading in the national dialogue. IE: People who question shit are not just looney, but dangerous
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