Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby compared2what? » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:52 pm

barracuda wrote:I think he's trying to say something along the lines of:

    If police post a public notice warning against making claims that hinder the advancement of the investigation, such notice would certainly impede the possibility of third-party information being introduced to the investigation on the basis of a concern that even well-meaning citizens might become liable should their proffered information turn out to be a dead end. The existence of such a liability would create an environment around the investigation in which well-meaning persons with information would inevitably err on the side of excess caution.

But that's just a guess.


Then I guess I'm the one who wasn't being clear. Quel surprise, as Mac might say.

By "liability," I mean:

The state of Connecticut owes Ryan Lanza costs and damages amounting to an enormous sum of money, and has known that it's too late to do anything about that since the 14th. They put out that notice as a pro forma gesture anyway. But that's all it is even within the parameters of the civil suit that they're going to end up settling behind closed doors, if they haven't already. It has nothing to do with the criminal investigation at all.

If you think about the way interest in the case evolved with that as your starting point, you'll spot the Feds right away. They actually stuck out already. It just wasn't clear why.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:15 pm

Agreed, and that's why I contested Mac's contention that the AP article he posted served as prima facie evidence that Adam Lanza had been set up. Because if anything, it struck me as prima facie evidence that Ryan Lanza had been seriously defamed.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:26 pm

barracuda, this is the latter half of the post by a guy called Niall Bradley that first got me thinking about this. But I'd recommend reading the whole thing (it's pretty short) at the original source -- for the links, photos, and original formatting. Also for the screen-grab of the original AP report, and not least for the sake of fair-use:

http://www.niallbradley.net/2012/12/29/ ... knowledge/

Sandy Hook massacre: Evidence of official foreknowledge?
Published on 29 December 2012, by niall in State terrorism.

http://www.niallbradley.net/2012/12/29/ ... knowledge/

© SOTT.net

[...]

Who exactly is this ‘law enforcement official’ that has access to the premier news agency in the country, and on behalf of which state agency does he/she work?

How did they even know at this point that Ryan had a younger 20-year-old brother when there are no public records of Adam Lanza since 2009 and the two brothers had not seen each other since 2010, as claimed by Ryan? How could they have known on Friday morning that Ryan had a girlfriend and that she and another friend were missing in New Jersey? How did they even know that Ryan had any connection to New Jersey at all? The Lanzas’ mother was dead at this point and their father only found out later through a reporter asking him about Adam, who had by then become the ‘lone gunman’ in the official narrative.

Surely the first point on the timeline at which anyone can even begin to discover these things about Ryan is the moment he piped up on Facebook and said “Hi, I’m alive, I didn’t do it, and I live and work down here in New Jersey!” How could ‘law enforcement officials’ have pieced together details of his life but not known that he was actually still alive in the very location where they stated that his girlfriend had gone missing?

The only way they could have found out all this about Ryan Lanza was if they had 100% positively identified him as the ‘dead gunman inside the building’, then worked backwards from there by investigating who his next of kin were, then questioning family members, then discovering where he lived and worked, that he had a girlfriend and that she and a friend were missing, etc.

Such things take time to investigate, especially as they would involve cross-checking with police and other officials in New Jersey. And even before that, somebody there would first have had to receive local reports of two missing people before any connection could be made to the shooting in Connecticut.

Even if we granted these ‘law enforcement officials’ superfast detective powers, they would not have been able to travel back in time to rewrite the script regarding how they knew what they knew about the Lanza brothers, particularly Ryan. Because from the moment the official line was forced to deviate towards saying that Ryan Lanza was no longer the ‘dead shooter inside the building’, it became impossible for these ‘law enforcement officials’ who “weren’t authorised to speak” (but heck, were telling lots of people lots of things that morning anyway, and whose credentials enabled them to speak through the Associated Press and other media outlets) to have retrospectively discovered all these connections of Ryan.

The only logical conclusion I can draw at this stage is that somebody or some group with high-level media access had FOREKNOWLEDGE of the crime, foreknowledge that is revealed by their ‘anonymously’ leaking to the press things which they could not otherwise have known, foreknowledge that exposes their hand in originally planning to use both Lanza brothers as patsies.

http://www.niallbradley.net/2012/12/29/ ... knowledge/
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby compared2what? » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:05 pm

barracuda wrote:Agreed, and that's why I contested Mac's contention that the AP article he posted served as prima facie evidence that Adam Lanza had been set up. Because if anything, it struck me as prima facie evidence that Ryan Lanza had been seriously defamed.


I'm not sure that it was defamation, actually.

But never mind. Because who cares?

The next time a circumstance arises among conspiracy theorists in which some are saying: "You shouldn't ought to do that, somebody could get hurt," and others are saying, "Traitor! Fascist! Bully! You're not the boss of me!" everybody who's capable of doing so should remember that "somebody could get hurt" is just another way of saying "you could be implicated in one or more felonies for which the FBI would probably be delighted to entrap you."

That's the bottom line.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:10 pm

Mac - I read that one when you first posted it, and I agree that the missing girlfriend angle is among the most nebulous of all the currently unexplained aspects here. I think what Niall Bradley isn't factoring in is just how well known Nancy Lanza and her family were to police.

“On behalf of Nancy’s mother and siblings, we reach out to the community of Newtown and express our heartfelt sorrow for the incomprehensible and profound loss of innocence that has affected so many,” said Rockingham County Sheriff Michael Downing, reading a statement from the Champion family here last night.

In this tiny hamlet, the personal connections to the tragic shootings in Newtown are everywhere. Police Chief Donald Briggs Jr., knew Nancy from school, he said. Her brother, James Champion, was a longtime police officer in Kingston, where he earned the rank of captain and retired in November 2011, Briggs said. Many alumni from the Sanborn class of 1978 still live in the area, either here or in Plaistow.


"Last night" meaning the night of the 14th of December.

Niall Bradley wrote:How did they even know at this point that Ryan had a younger 20-year-old brother when there are no public records of Adam Lanza since 2009 and the two brothers had not seen each other since 2010, as claimed by Ryan? How could they have known on Friday morning that Ryan had a girlfriend and that she and another friend were missing in New Jersey? How did they even know that Ryan had any connection to New Jersey at all? The Lanzas’ mother was dead at this point and their father only found out later through a reporter asking him about Adam, who had by then become the ‘lone gunman’ in the official narrative.


Several of the above questions are answered by the simple fact that the chief of police of a neighboring city was a personal friend of the family. I imagine this would streamline the investigation considerably at the outset.

I would also imagine that Ryan Lanza's ID might point the way to Hoboken. It's certainly not out of the question. It was in police hands by 10:00. Fallback position on that would be information in the Lanza residence. Corroboration on that could easily have come from Capt. James Champion. All this could easily have happened within minutes of 10:00, and then a phone call to the Hoboken Police and Bob's your uncle.

If I was forced at gunpoint to make a call on where I would guess the missing girlfriend report happened, it would be at this point, in discussion with neighbors in Ryan Lanza's NJ apartment. But outside of such a circumstance I can't imagine even beginning to have an inkling of where, because there's no information around about that at all.

And along those lines, why was the father originally listed as dead? I come up empty. Fog of war? Dunno. Look at this mess:

    2:15 p.m. CST -- The Associated Press reports: A law enforcement official says the suspect in the Connecticut school shootings is 24-year-old Ryan Lanza and that his younger brother is being held for questioning as a possible second shooter. The law enforcement official said the boys' mother, Nancy Lanza, works at the school as a teacher. The official also said Ryan Lanza's girlfriend and another friend are missing in New Jersey.

Not a single item in that wire report is factual, afaik. But as to the question of this forming a kernel of prima facie evidence regarding a conspiracy to set up Adam Lanza... there's just no way that would fly in my court. Because first of all, who are you accusing of this crime? And secondly, where in all this do we see a self-evident conspiracy? Especially if the body found at the school is Adam Lanza. To do so, you have to produce affirmative evidence showing that some persons in particular illegally entered into agreement to engage in an unlawful act with intent to carry out that act and probably also engaged in the actual commission of that illegal act in furtherance of the agreement. Prima facie evidence of a conspiracy such as this strikes me as a rare animal, indeed. On its face, the evidence must indicate that the defendants acted by agreement and with intent towards the commission of a crime against the victim. It would probably take a videotape or a sound recording of the planning phase to even begin to qualify.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:53 pm

Thanks for taking the time to address this seriously, barracuda. I note what you say about the family being well-known in that part of the world. Good to hear that the local police chief is an ex-schoolmate of hers, and that her brother is a very recently-retired police captain. Hopefully these people and her other real friends will be asking some very serious & searching questions about the massacre (which included two Lanzas), especially once Ryan has recovered somewhat from this horror-farce.

barracuda wrote:And along those lines, why was the father originally listed as dead? I come up empty. Fog of war? Dunno. Look at this mess:

2:15 p.m. CST -- The Associated Press reports: A law enforcement official says the suspect in the Connecticut school shootings is 24-year-old Ryan Lanza and that his younger brother is being held for questioning as a possible second shooter. The law enforcement official said the boys' mother, Nancy Lanza, works at the school as a teacher. The official also said Ryan Lanza's girlfriend and another friend are missing in New Jersey.


Not a single item in that wire report is factual, afaik.


I have no idea why the father was listed as dead. It can't have been the result of a casually misheard word. The whole thing is a mess, as you say. Not even the timeline is clear to me, nor do I know when the FBI first arrived on the scene. The whole thing is a bloody mess.

But not a random mess. There's an entire fictional "Thrilling Adventures of the Lanza Family" yarn in embryo there, and it was fired off very shortly after the shooting -- while the cops were still searching the building (!). Father reportedly dead, Adam reportedly arrested, Ryan reportedly the killer. Nancy said to be a teacher, even Ryan's roommate and girlfriend in NJ are suddenly newsworthy as dramatic disappearees. WTF? Not a word of it was true.

Note also that AP (who weren't born yesterday, and who have some kind of reputation to protect) said they got this weirdly detailed and remarkably early scoop from a "law enforcement official" whom they had "no reason to distrust": Nonetheless, he dumped them deeply in the shit. And surely not just for laughs. Why then?

Then the "emergence" of the Magic Photo, that virgin birth. That blurred black-and-white brown-eyed boy. (Ryan has brown eyes.)

There is still something else really bugging me about that AP report, just as it bugged Niall Bradley. It stinks. But I am simply too tired to get my thoughts straight on it tonight. I will get back to you tomorrow.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Col. Quisp » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:18 pm

Uh, i seem to be getting drawn in to this mess. Just a couple of quickies here.

Re: Defamation of Ryan - Accusing a person falsely of committing a crime is libel or slander "per se." Haven't studied the law of defamation in a while. Not meant as legal advice. Other examples of slander per se are false statements that the person has a "loathsome disease," or is unchaste.

Ryan may also have causes of action based on false light, or invasion of privacy.

Re: Family being well known to police - then WHY are so many facts WRONG?
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby justdrew » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:28 pm

barracuda wrote:The Daily News (ugh) article comes replete with a pretty large scan of the Lanza image, the half-tone version mentioned by justdrew upthread:

Image

If this is closer in generation to the original scan, it would help explain why it might wind up colorized or otherwise retouched for publication.


fyi, you forgot to uncheck the box, and let imageshack resize the pic. it's actually 635 pixels wide, not 600.

Anyway, that looks to be a photo taken of a print, some color data has snuck in from the ambient room. Likely a professional print job not likely a laser printer, as HP and crowd have been tending to use more complex halftoning and dithering, you actually have to work to get them to make a nice 30-45dpi dot screen like that, though, since we don't know the size of the original, there's no way to know the exact dpi of the halftone screen. Also looking at the top right, you can see the original doesn't appear to have been perfectly vertical to the camera, looks a couple degrees counterclockwise rotated. Really, it could be someone printed out the color pic we've seen on a b&w printer and photographed it. but possibly it is closer to whatever the police were handing out.

He was homeschooled to finish highschool and got a GED, could be the mother had him pose for a picture, and it was recovered from the home. Perhaps a picture was taken when he did the GED?

Anyway. :shrug:

anyway, here's an "enhanced" version, better colorization, done without "painting" and it shows the poor lighting pointing down and to the left. down and to the left. down. and to the left. :oops:

Image
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby justdrew » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:14 am

I wonder if the hoax theories here aren't more similar to the "hijackers are still alive" stories than to the "no planes" stories? I'm seeing that infochunck dropped in comments from time to time, but don't see anyone really pushing no-planes anymore.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby compared2what? » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:19 am

Col. Quisp wrote:Uh, i seem to be getting drawn in to this mess. Just a couple of quickies here.

Re: Defamation of Ryan - Accusing a person falsely of committing a crime is libel or slander "per se." Haven't studied the law of defamation in a while. Not meant as legal advice. Other examples of slander per se are false statements that the person has a "loathsome disease," or is unchaste.

Ryan may also have causes of action based on false light, or invasion of privacy.


Well....Hm. There's no good way to put this. But when I said I wasn't sure it was defamation, I didn't mean that I wasn't sure it was defamation. So I have no idea why I said it. Just lazy, mostly. It totally is. Exactly as you point out. The very definition of libel per se. It's other stuff, too, though. And all of it's much, much worse than anything usually associated with defamationn (or any kind of) civil suits against the state.

Anyway. It seems most accurate to me to say:

He has cause of action because Connecticut state officials decided to let him know his brother, mother and/or father were dead by wrongly naming him as the killer of 20 small children to (and also in front of) the whole damn world. Plus the internet.

That's really not good news for CT wrt damages, considering that they shouldn't in fact have been naming anybody at that point.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:57 am

Col. Quisp wrote:Re: Family being well known to police - then WHY are so many facts WRONG?


Intimate knowledge of the family doesn't equate to intimate knowledge of the facts of the crime.

For instance and hypothetically: personal knowledge of the Lanza family might give you a head start on the fact that Nancy lived at 36 Yogananda Street with her sons, but it wouldn't help you draw any conclusions regarding whether or not her husband had been murdered. You'd have to talk to him to know that. And while her brother was a retired police captain in nearby Kingston, he wouldn't have been able to quickly make an identification of the dead shooter, if at all. He would certainly know Adam and Ryan's names, and maybe even that Ryan lived in Hoboken, but he wouldn't be taken to see the body of his nephew. The body was identified pretty conclusively by Ryan's ID found at the scene, or so everyone thought. Police were surprised to find Ryan alive, certainly, in light of the can of worms opened up by naming him as the killer.

Finally, I'll borrow c2w's beautifully concise description of the complexity of things: "real life happens in detail." It's messy, and fractal, and has many unusual features, including, for instance, at least one parent of a student at the school who apparently thought Nancy Lanza was a teacher there, something I find particularly innocuous. Mostly because I've spent enough years hanging around my daughter's elementary school to be misidentified as a teacher there even by staff members. I ascribe it to my professorial mien.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Col. Quisp » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:08 am

Yogananda Street? How weird is that!
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:13 am

Oh God, the "hijackers are alive" meme. If I was behind 9/11, no way would I want any of those guys sipping Margharitas in the Bahamas.

Anyways, maybe I'm a newb...but what is the significance of the grey alien-esque Lanza photo? We all know the media likes to use the worst photos possible of alleged killers. Just look at OJ, where
they even darkened his photo.

Still, y'all are right. For a couple days we were told he's Robert Lanza. His mom works at a kindergarten glass, so he drove to school and shot her and the other kindergartners in one class with two hand guns.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:20 am

8bitagent wrote:For a couple days we were told he's Robert Lanza.


Ryan. And it was actually only a couple of hours. By 3 pm on the 14th, Ryan had been cleared, and Adam was named the shooter.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby justdrew » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:41 am

barracuda wrote:
8bitagent wrote:For a couple days we were told he's Robert Lanza.


Ryan. And it was actually only a couple of hours. By 3 pm on the 14th, Ryan had been cleared, and Adam was named the shooter.


and if it was a hoax, why would they make that mistake?
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