11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

[Hunter]

Holyfuckingshit @ the hurricane.

LOL tell me you see the skeleton and my imagination isnt just fucking with me.

[FourthBase]

Can't see a skeleton on my tablet.

What I do see is a hurricane charging toward Boston/NYC on 9/11, and then turning on a dime and scurrying away like a Stooge, I can almost hear it go "woowoowoowoo" like Curly.

[8bitagent]

I have developed my own theory over the years and havent heard anyone else really come close to looking at it this way but I am pretty convinced that it may have happened this way.

Consider there were terror drills going on that day, we do know there were, I believe it was announced to everyone in the industry, air controllers, military leaders etc, that there would be drills that day and anything they saw out of the ordinary would be part of that, in otherwords stand down. These drills from what I understand were supposed to simulate hijacked planes hitting buildings.

I believe that the 19 hijackers were part of these drills, they were funded, trained, wined and dined by various intelligence agencies and their job on that day was to actually ACT the role of hijackers, it was a simulation and they were supposed to take the planes over etc and IN THEIR MINDS it was all a drill, but at some point the drill went live using remote control technology and the planes were flown in to buildings with the hijackers as double crossed as the rest of us.

They were just supposed to play the role of hijackers for this drill and had no idea they were going to die that day.

This may or may not be what happened, I am not married to it but I have read everything (even just finished The Big Bamboozle--GREAT BOOK by the way, and Marshel's other book) and this is really the best I can do at this time to really make sense of it.

In any case, I am currently working on a sceenplay with this as the plot, whether this is what happened or not I do believe it is close, very close to how this went down the question is of course the who and why etc, those are a little more difficult to answer but various researchers have certainly gotten much closer over the years.

Obviously a lot of people were in on it, of course it doesnt have to be that many, but my point is I do not believe the actual hijackers were, I believe they felt and were tricked in to believing it was going to be a drill, a simulation of a hijack and from there it went live without their knowledge and it is further clear to me the planes were without a doubt flown using RC technology.

This is 100% the theory Alex Jones first posited around 2002 or so and still maintains, even did a documentary or two on it. Like almost word for word about the Hijackers allegedly being trained in the US, given credit cards, housed, and part of a drill that went "live".

For me I feel the thing is, there has to be not just plausible deniability but ultimate plausible deniability. I've come to think it was important for most of the "intelligence" community and even some of the neocons to be
tricked into thinking there truly was an "al Qaeda" threat. While some believe Cheney was somehow behind 9/11, I almost think 9/11 was a secret admirer gift to them knowing that Team Cheney would really run with the golden goose 9/11 football much more than a Gore administration. This scenario means that people like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi bin alshidh would have to go to their graves thinking they acted alone, or at least maybe had some Arab government help. For me the lynchpin is proxy networks. I agree 100% that al Qaeda nor even Arabs were behind the event ultimately. But to pull off something like this you would need to convince dedicated
"jihadists" of such a cause. And this would happen through proxy controlled clerics and imans, midway figures and both black intel channels and criminal networks. There was a whole host of cutout front businesses dovetailing all over 9/11 as well as Saudi and Dubai banking money. No doubt though that the training schools used were spook related. In fact certain topographical areas the alleged hijackers were in have been known to be spook havens.

In February 2008 the FBI released a treasure trove of smoking gun documents relating to the hijackers two years inside of America. Credit cards that mysteriously were still in use two weeks after 9/11. Chamber maids at hotels
reporting mysterious men in the hotel rooms that were not the hijackers. A whole laundry list of details confirming deep Saudi intelligence and government involvement, and even possibly ISI. But be fooled not, this is a deliberate
second wall laid out. For the few people who want to reach deeper then "angry al Qaeda Muslims did it", the "Saudis and or ISI did it" conclusion is a second wall.

I highly recommend Peter Lance's "1000 Years For Revenge" and "Triple Cross". I've been curious in where the original impetus, the nucleus of the 9/11 plan came from. Conspiracy theorist documentaries will tell you "duh, Operation Northwoods! Google that up". But we must go back to the original World Trade Center 1993 plot. And even back a few years to the murder of radical New York area rabbi Mayer Khahane in the Fall of 1990.
That killing seems to spiderweb back and forth through time from the intel created Maktab al Khadamat/mujahadeen networks on through the Bosnian/Chechen wars and 9/11 itself.

I know it sounds absurd, and I know people are probably tired of me linking this, but this truly is one of the best 9/11 documentaries(in my opinion) next to Core of Corruption and Press For Truth. It comes from Fox News,
but in a strange way they've done a good job of going deep into exploring 9/11 in the last couple years. In fact they did a recent thing about Anwar Awlaki that makes me suspect he may have been a protected intel asset.

[Hunter]

Oh really, I honestly had no idea AJ had theorized that, I have never actually read anyone suggest that they believed they were part of a drill. Interesting, I will look in to that, I dont read AJ and havent in years so it doesnt surprise me that I missed that, I am not a fan of his at all, cant stand the guy.


My main problem, as mentioned above, with thinking that those 19 hijackers were real and actual hijackers as opposed to just being role players in a drill, who knew they were gonna die that day is, simply, they dont fit the profile of your average suicide bombing radical extremist Muslim, I suppose one could argue they were dedicated secular, as opposed to religiousy fanatic, jihadist nonethless it seems hard for me to believe that ALL 19 of them, assuming they were not hardcore religious fanatics, which is the evidence suggests they are not, went to their deaths that day knowingly and not one of them chickened out at the last minute. I just dont see this group of guys as being the type to do that and especially NOT ALL 19 of them, surely a few would have chickened out unless they were hardcore brainwashed religiously fanatic Muslims, and I dont see that among these 19 guys, they seemed to be very intelligent, they liked to party and seemed to enjoy the western lifestyle they were afforded, all things a real dedicated and brainwashed muslim fanatic would abhor.

[Hunter]

If you dont think the neocons were behind it, who do you think was, I know PM thinks it was Saudi intell etc and I have no real problem with that but that suggests to me that it was an actual and real attack on America and not just something that was used to push a certain agenda on the American people.

So who do you think was ultimately behind it, I dont need names, just in general, and what was the ultimate purpose and objective of those attacks?

I understand the concept that it was used by the neocons after for this or that but whoever was behind the attack had a reason for it that must have went beyond just creating a police state and tricking the American people in to giving up their liberties for more security, that is assuming those behind it were foreigners. So who or what organization do you think was behind it and what was their ultimate objective? I believe these are the two more important questions about 9-11. Questions that most "truthers" dont ask, instead focusing on how the towers fell etc, which to me, is really not as important as WHY IT HAPPENED TO BEGIN WITH. So why did it happen to begin with and ultimately who was the person who wanted those things to happen.


If we were to conclude people or organizations INSIDE THE US was behind it I would then say it was because they ultimately wanted to create a national security state, go to war which is very profitable and other reasons and surely people like Cheney DID USE IT after the fact for those purposes, but if it was a non American mastermind behind it, funding it etc, what was THEIR OBJECTIVE in your opinion?

I would like to hear everyones answers to the above questions as I know some of you, maybe 8bit may say it was occult connected, which is ok, I dont have any problem with those opinions but I would also like to hear other reasons who was ultimately behind this, set it up, funded it and WHAT WAS THEIR OBJECTIVE in committing the attacks.

I know nobody can really answer these questions but I love to hear others opinions on it.

[FourthBase]

Meh, if the hijackers thought they were going to be, you know, hijackers, as opposed to kamikaze pilots, then the zealousness of their Muslim-ness is no longer necessarily relevant. You could probably hire any old mercenary to merely hijack a plane. A secular militant might hijack a plane. Hell, maybe the 9/11 hijackers were deep-cover Saudi spooks. Actually, upon further review, you could probably even persuade a mercenary or secular militant or spook to be a suicider, if you promise to reward their families enough and/or threaten to torture and kill their families.

[StarmanSkye]

Alchemy - That scenario sounds WAY more plausable than anything else. I don't think it was possible for the hijackers to take-over, fly & navigate those planes w/ the pinpoint accuracy needed & without trigerring SOP official 'Hijack in progress' signal by Flight Pilots. But WHY did officials release data flight info indicating the unrealistic speeds they did, or w/ the evident signs of tampering in Pentagon's Flt 77 no aileron movements & cockpit door remained closed & obvious bench-manufactured indications of 'missing' crucial data identification fields as per Pilots for Truth analysis? Perhaps to further confound & confuse the evidence? But also, if hijackers were 'trained' for simulation, WHY was their training under close Saudi Intel tutelege so extensive? They wouldn't have actually been required to FLY the planes - or were they? Perhaps the 'plan' was a drill that would be subverted, ITSELF hijacked for the False Flag scenario? Maybe all the inconsistencies & contradictions were intended to discredit any and all False Flag evidence simply thru overwhelming a single credible explanation of Deep State conspiracy?

But in the end, we have NOT had a credible, thorough investigation devoid of cover-up, evidence tampering, perjury & false witness statements - One of the biggest red flags of all.

[barracuda]

The Bushes and their cronies have gotten filthy rich and powerful through the repeated gambit of working with banking interests to arm enemies of the US and then working to attack those same people. It's been going on since the 1920's - Hitler, then Saddam, then Osama. The motive and objective is simple war profiteering. Everything else is secondary. In my opinion.

Brown Brothers Harriman, Union Bank, BCCI, BNL, Carlyle Group.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/carlyle.html

[thatsmystory]

To my knowledge an airline would never sign off on such a hijack simulation. There were red teams that worked for the FAA who did things like tested baggage screening. It doesn't make any sense for United and American to agree to live drills with a bunch of strangers. Even if nothing had happened this would be inviting lawsuits from pissed off passengers or airline employees who weren't told.

Some families were involved in litigation for years with the airlines and the airline security companies. Their lawyers (i.e. Motley Rice) deposed a ton of airline employees. I find it extremely difficult to believe that if the families had come across info about hijack drills that they would have remained silent.

There is information that indicates the hijackers were genuinely religious. As far as I can tell the main source for suggesting that Atta was a coke fiend was Daniel Hopsicker. There was a question as to whether the coke fiend Atta was the same guy as the ID'ed Atta from 9/11. Hopsicker evidently believed Amanda Keller lived with the 9/11 Atta but got scared and changed her story. In news articles local residents stated that the Atta they saw with Keller was a different guy. Most other accounts indicate that Atta was extremely religious.

Here is one of the articles:

An FDLE agent working in conjunction with the FBI arrived at the LaConca home around 10:30 a.m. Thursday and questioned the couple for two hours concerning a man they knew only as "Mohamed."

The couple told the agent the man was about 25, 5 feet 10 inches, 160 pounds, had "dark, perfect" skin, and was clean cut and "very polite."

"He was a very handsome guy," Vonnie LaConca said in an interview. "He had beautiful, unblemished skin."

Mohamed was associated with a local woman believed to be Amanda Keller, a local restaurant manager, LaConca said. The FBI is looking for Keller for additional questioning, but she might be missing.

Hunt for terrorists reaches North Port

There is definitely something off about the situation. Perhaps another trail was in play:

While talking to Keller and Mohamed, the couple learned he had a pilot's license to charter small planes of four to six people and was going to school at Huffman Aviation in Venice to train for a commercial pilot's license. Huffman was the school that enrolled Mohamed Atta and Marwan Alshehhi, both identified as suspects in the hijacked jet assaults on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

[FourthBase]

To my knowledge an airline would never sign off on such a hijack simulation. There were red teams that worked for the FAA who did things like tested baggage screening. It doesn't make any sense for United and American to agree to live drills with a bunch of strangers. Even if nothing had happened this would be inviting lawsuits from pissed off passengers or airline employees who weren't told.

Some families were involved in litigation for years with the airlines and the airline security companies. Their lawyers (i.e. Motley Rice) deposed a ton of airline employees. I find it extremely difficult to believe that if the families had come across info about hijack drills that they would have remained silent.

I imagine any such drill would be an extremely-classified national security project which airlines might have had little to no choice but to comply with and which no civilian plaintiff on earth would be allowed to find out anything about. But who knows.

[8bitagent]

Oh really, I honestly had no idea AJ had theorized that, I have never actually read anyone suggest that they believed they were part of a drill. Interesting, I will look in to that, I dont read AJ and havent in years so it doesnt surprise me that I missed that, I am not a fan of his at all, cant stand the guy.


My main problem, as mentioned above, with thinking that those 19 hijackers were real and actual hijackers as opposed to just being role players in a drill, who knew they were gonna die that day is, simply, they dont fit the profile of your average suicide bombing radical extremist Muslim, I suppose one could argue they were dedicated secular, as opposed to religiousy fanatic, jihadist nonethless it seems hard for me to believe that ALL 19 of them, assuming they were not hardcore religious fanatics, which is the evidence suggests they are not, went to their deaths that day knowingly and not one of them chickened out at the last minute. I just dont see this group of guys as being the type to do that and especially NOT ALL 19 of them, surely a few would have chickened out unless they were hardcore brainwashed religiously fanatic Muslims, and I dont see that among these 19 guys, they seemed to be very intelligent, they liked to party and seemed to enjoy the western lifestyle they were afforded, all things a real dedicated and brainwashed muslim fanatic would abhor.

Yep, before the "no Arabs involved, 100% Bush-Cheney-Silverstein CIA Pentagon INSIDE JOB!" meme, AJ and even to some extent Michael Rupert were positing the exact speculation you described. Reports of Atta and company doing training at the Monterry defensive language skills. It's a fact Atta was emailing with military officials, Ziad Jarrah had an email linked to a well known defense manufacturer and Moussoui was in contact with Blackwater worldwide. There is likely a whole murky black layer we've only begun to glimpse.

My only problem with the notion that they were just innocent lads thinking they were part of a CIA counter terror drills is that most of the hijackers were groomed for and prepared to die in the Chechen conflict. Some had fought and killed in the Bosnian jihad under the MPRI/Pentagon/NATO funded mujahadeen in the former Yugoslavia. I've read all the reports of the coke/porn/strippers/drugs/hookers stuff, and while some anti theorists claims it's part of some "Taqfir" subterfuge...their VERY loud and memorable behavior was a liability and coulda blown their path...it suggests to me an almost deliberate breadcrumb trail. Perhaps one could say they knew they were going to die so why not party a little. There's some evidence at least a few of the hijackers had second thoughts. As they were awaiting their puddle jumper flight at Portland Maine, it was reported that Aziz al-Omari was acting really nervous and Mohammed Atta was trying to calm him down. Atta just seems like a pure sociopath, or some sort of manchurian. Like Moussoui and al-Awlaki, he's also a cipher to the whole affair.

[8bitagent]

If you dont think the neocons were behind it, who do you think was, I know PM thinks it was Saudi intell etc and I have no real problem with that but that suggests to me that it was an actual and real attack on America and not just something that was used to push a certain agenda on the American people.

So who do you think was ultimately behind it, I dont need names, just in general, and what was the ultimate purpose and objective of those attacks?

I understand the concept that it was used by the neocons after for this or that but whoever was behind the attack had a reason for it that must have went beyond just creating a police state and tricking the American people in to giving up their liberties for more security, that is assuming those behind it were foreigners. So who or what organization do you think was behind it and what was their ultimate objective? I believe these are the two more important questions about 9-11. Questions that most "truthers" dont ask, instead focusing on how the towers fell etc, which to me, is really not as important as WHY IT HAPPENED TO BEGIN WITH. So why did it happen to begin with and ultimately who was the person who wanted those things to happen.


If we were to conclude people or organizations INSIDE THE US was behind it I would then say it was because they ultimately wanted to create a national security state, go to war which is very profitable and other reasons and surely people like Cheney DID USE IT after the fact for those purposes, but if it was a non American mastermind behind it, funding it etc, what was THEIR OBJECTIVE in your opinion?

I would like to hear everyones answers to the above questions as I know some of you, maybe 8bit may say it was occult connected, which is ok, I dont have any problem with those opinions but I would also like to hear other reasons who was ultimately behind this, set it up, funded it and WHAT WAS THEIR OBJECTIVE in committing the attacks.

I know nobody can really answer these questions but I love to hear others opinions on it.

Well we 100% can establish some very senior Saudi officials were involved.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/FBI_docum ... _0228.html

That right there is enough evidence to prove it was an inside job, because I wonder why the US not only cover for the Saudis but then continue to do deals. I should note that al Qaeda did finally turn on the Saudis and tried to blow up the head of Saudi GID intelligence. It was the Saudis/ISI/Mossad involved in the arming of foreign Arab anti Soviet fighters, and once again we have news events that place Mossad, ISI and Saudis within reach of the hijackers and operation. (Israeli spies living next door/down the street from some of the hijackers in Florida, that can't be a coincidence) I would estimate a good 40% or more of the money spent on 9/11 came from Saudis, some perhaps using British defense contract money via Riggs bank and Dubai banks.

Ok 8bit(an anti 9/11 truther might say), so a few Saudi officials and maybe some ISI or corrupt gulf state elites were involved. And maybe the US didnt want to start a war with their pals, so they covered that and pre 9/11 intel up.

Well if we are a medical examiner, the heart and body of al Qaeda and militant jihadism is in its funding, arming, structure, support and operational directives.
We know from the mid 90's til at least 2001, this would be the Gulf state elites who attend Falconry hunts and camps.
So these same elites doing business with Western corporations and elites are also shaking hands and providing funds and fun little assignments for bin Laden and company
While you can easily get brainwashed young Muslims to blow themselves up as we've seen a million zillion times, WHO is the ones doing the directing? Often, it's like directing mice into a maze. Most recently in Libya, Syria, and before that Bosnia. Or the plot to kill Ghadafi using al Qaeda forces in 1996.

From a Saudi perspective, I don't think it was some Wahhabist zeal to strike the West...probably calculated. They wanted the US to invade Iraq, wanted weapons and oil deals to skyrocket. Calculated.
If you're Dick Cheney or Rumsfeld, 9/11 would be too dangerous. I wouldnt want those clowns in the know if I was involved. I mean Flight 77 could have easily killed all the top brass with or without remote control theories.
If we truly want to peer behind the curtain and see who was working the Holy Tuesday operation we might not be looking at any state actors. It may partially be religiously motivated beyond mere greed. My guess would
be a group of men who love death.

Bush did not lie to us about who did 9/11

The hijackers were instruments of evil who died in vain. Behind them is a cult of evil which seeks to harm the innocent and thrives on human suffering. Theirs is the worst kind of cruelty, the cruelty that is fed, not weakened, by tears. Theirs is the worst kind of violence, pure malice, while daring to claim the authority of God. We cannot fully understand the designs and power of evil. It is enough to know that evil, like goodness, exists. And in the terrorists, evil has found a willing servant.

For all the "Bush is an idiot" memes, now and then he'd get focused and say some really fucking eerie and cogent shit.

If one is inclined to believe the vacuum of chaos in Iraq was intentional and desired(creating a civil war), then it's almost like the endless daily death itself was the key. I don't know if these are Abrahamic end time believers or what, but a "cult of evil" might be what we're looking at. You can fully appreciate the dark majesty of the towers and such when looked at this context. Because I am not sure that the US accomplished anything...or, perhaps the US was being used.

[8bitagent]

There is information that indicates the hijackers were genuinely religious. As far as I can tell the main source for suggesting that Atta was a coke fiend was Daniel Hopsicker. There was a question as to whether the coke fiend Atta was the same guy as the ID'ed Atta from 9/11. Hopsicker evidently believed Amanda Keller lived with the 9/11 Atta but got scared and changed her story. In news articles local residents stated that the Atta they saw with Keller was a different guy. Most other accounts indicate that Atta was extremely religious.

I believe the hijackers were devout Muslims, but that a lot of the party stories are true.
This here reveals a lot about what was previously unknown about the Jan 2000-Sept 2001 journey of the 19 men accused,
and creates a lot of creepy questions
http://www.historycommons.org/news.jsp? ... 393703-423

To my knowledge an airline would never sign off on such a hijack simulation. There were red teams that worked for the FAA who did things like tested baggage screening. It doesn't make any sense for United and American to agree to live drills with a bunch of strangers. Even if nothing had happened this would be inviting lawsuits from pissed off passengers or airline employees who weren't told.

Some families were involved in litigation for years with the airlines and the airline security companies. Their lawyers (i.e. Motley Rice) deposed a ton of airline employees. I find it extremely difficult to believe that if the families had come across info about hijack drills that they would have remained silent.

I imagine any such drill would be an extremely-classified national security project which airlines might have had little to no choice but to comply with and which no civilian plaintiff on earth would be allowed to find out anything about. But who knows.

Actor James Woods claims he was on a pre 9/11 flight two weeks prior with three of the hijackers, and said he felt like they were taking part in some sort of drill

[8bitagent]

@alchemy: Are you familiar with Peter Lance?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Lanc ... vestigaton

Virtually no, or at least very few 9/11 researchers talk about the original World Trade Center 1993 or the Dar-es-Salaam/Nairobi "Twin Africa" attacks. As if 9/11 happened in a vacuum.
But these are both linked by a man named Ali Mohamed. And it's this guy, who is now under witness protection, where all this crap comes from. In 1989 Ali Mohamed brought blueprints of the WTC
as well as explosive manuals STOLEN from the army to New York. He was seen with the men who would be involved in WTC 1993, and in 1990 a house belonging to the assassin of Rabbi Meir Kahane
revealed all of this stuff. According to Peter Lance, the literal plot from 9/11 was described by KSM to Ramzi Yousef over the phone when Yousef was in a Manhattan jail, using the son of a famous mafia
boss as the go between acting as FBI informants. This was about 1996, but two years prior was the "Bojinka" plot which was the proto-9/11. But who gave KSM or Yousef these ideas?

That's where we find the true nucleus of 9/11. Maybe the same "God" who Bush claims talks to him also talks to these fine young Jihadis? ha.

[FourthBase]

I mean Flight 77 could have easily killed all the top brass with or without remote control theories.

Well, isn't that the thing? As we all know, 77 hit the one wedge out of five with street bomb reinforcement, hit it conveniently low at a horizontal angle, just as the reinforcement was nearly complete, but while still under construction, so populated by only a skeleton crew (creepy designation, in hindsight) which was mostly comprised of accountants and such. I somehow doubt that, if the locus and timing wasn't all happenstance, such a thing would have ever been entrusted to even the world's most expert pilot.

p.s. Part of what makes The Other Guys so deliciously subversive, a sly possible reference to 9/11 I'd wager not a single other viewer picked up (and may not have even been intended by the filmmakers, lol, in which case there's nothing really to pick up) is that the demolition crew's hijacked wrecking ball crashed into the jewelry building under a false pretense, the real purpose was to alter the financial records of the accountants next door. I'm not suggesting the Pentagon accountants were necessarily the real target, the primary target. But, probably, at the very least: Hey, two birds, why not? And, wasn't that also the case for the WTC tower complex? See, next time you watch The Other Guys, pretend it's a comedy designed in part to cheer up this board.