Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby lupercal » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:26 pm

^ fine, but that's what links are for. Notice that I've left out no essential information:

lupercal wrote:Now here's something odd: Frontline apparently relied heavily on an unflattering portrait of Lanza provided by one Richard Novia, a dubiously qualified figure who was hired as "as chief of security" by the Newtown school district in 1993 from a "security and investigative background." Apparently security chief Novia recruited Lanza to join his "tech club":

Richard Novia served as chief of security in Newtown’s school district and ran the tech club at Newtown High School. He recruited Adam to join the tech club, hoping to encourage him to become more social. According to Novia, Adam’s mother, Nancy, was at a loss as to how to help her son. “She was failing at bringing him out of his little world,” Novia said. “And I said that I think I can help him.”


Sounds like he helped alright. Under Novia's watch, Lanza had "episodes" of withdrawal while seated in a darkened room lit only by glowing CRTs where he learned to "comply" with Novia's commands:

So there was a time where we had a controlled room for the video productions of our channel 17. He would like to be in there. The only illumination of the room is the monitors, and intentionally it’s dark in that room. He’d like that type of environment. He’d like that quiet, close the door in the control room, stay in there. I would say, “No, no, no, you’re on to do this.” … And we had reached a point where he would actually respond to that. So that was progress. “You’re gonna be behind camera 4.” Now, he wouldn’t say no, he wouldn’t say yes. He wouldn’t say anything. But he got to a point where he was able to comply.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... -withdraw/


:shock: :shock:

Image


There are one or two members posting in this thread who never seem to read more than the first sentence of a long post, make up the rest out of whole cloth, and then insist for months that their preconceptions are in fact what they read. To them I've rendered the service of directing their limited attention. :shrug:

p.s. no charge.
User avatar
lupercal
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby lupercal » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:43 pm

Another question: did Frontline interview Jennifer Huettner, an actual teacher who actually taught Lanza Latin for three years, and would have known him much better than a "security" chief who also ran a spooky "club"? And if not, why not?

Jennifer Huettner, And The Adam Lanza She Knew
Posted on December 21, 2012

Image

“He had a great ‘Latin mind.’ The language is very structured, and that fit well with him. He always knew the answers — but he wouldn’t say anything.

“The day he made his first joke, I almost cried.”

The next year, Adam moved into the high school building.

“He trusted me,” Jennifer says. “He started talking — that was a big thing. And he looked at me, with big eyes.” They were not the same eyes, she says, that the world has seen in “that horrible picture.”

Every day as a sophomore “he wore the same uniform: a blue shirt and khaki pants. He probably had 5 sets of them. The next year, it was a green plaid shirt.”

And — as Newtown students have reported — he always carried a briefcase.

“The hallways were narrow. It was difficult to walk through,” Jennifer says. “Adam would have his shoulder against the wall, with his briefcase out to protect him. He always took the same route, and never deviated from it.”

But, Jennifer says, “I never saw him lose it, or have a tantrum.”

Newtown students — like those she knows now at Staples High — are “very respectful of differences,” she says. “There was never any meanness or bullying. They’d ask Adam to sit with them.”


After 3 years Adam left Newtown, to take classes at Western Connecticut State University. Jennifer says he earned his GED there.

http://06880danwoog.com/2012/12/21/jenn ... -she-knew/


Quite a different portrait than the one handily supplied by the security chief, isn't it?
User avatar
lupercal
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:02 pm

lupercal wrote:Quite a different portrait than the one handily supplied by the security chief, isn't it?


Not really.

After being home schooled in 7th and 8th grades, Adam took freshman classes in a portable classroom at the high school. He was 13 years old.

He didn’t want to be around people,” Jennifer explains. “Our goal was to get him back in the building.”

Adam’s mother Nancy would drop him off, then sit in the next room while Jennifer worked with him.

He was very OCD. He’d clean the desk with Purell,” Jennifer remembers.

...

After 3 years Adam left Newtown, to take classes at Western Connecticut State University. Jennifer says he earned his GED there.

“I understand he dropped out of WesConn after 2 years,” Jennifer continues. “Then he sat in his basement for 2 years. Something happened.”
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:30 pm

lupercal wrote:Another question: did Frontline interview Jennifer Huettner, an actual teacher who actually taught Lanza Latin for three years, and would have known him much better than a "security" chief who also ran a spooky "club"? And if not, why not?


Jennifer Huettner gave one (1) interview about Adam Lanza, to Dan Woog, who she knew personally as the soccer coach at the school she teaches at, Staples High.

Dan Woog wrote:Like many people here in Westport, she has read my blog, and (I think) appreciated that I have reported on Newtown from a local, personal and (I hope) compassionate angle.

I think there is an element of “compassionate community service” that’s not available in what we’ve come to know as “the mainstream press.”

That’s why, I think, Jennifer Huettner felt more comfortable speaking with me, than with “60 Minutes” or The Washington Post. When you’re speaking with someone you know, you don’t have to censor yourself, or give long background explanations, or put things in context, or worry about how your words will sound. You share a common background with the “reporter” (or blogger, whatever you want to call me), so you are able to tell the story the way you would with a friend or relative.

There are stories I have NOT written, because I am sensitive to the people who experienced them.

I know the father who arrived right as the shooting ended; he was going to make gingerbread houses in his child’s classroom. He was detained and questioned, in the moments when the police thought he was a second shooter. Meanwhile, he frantically worried about the fate of his child. That story is too raw for him to tell publicly.

I have heard (from a neighbor) the story of the mother who was in the meeting with the principal and school psychologist when Adam Lanza burst in; she saw the horror unfold.

Out of respect for them, and what they endured, I didn’t even pursue those stories.
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:52 pm

Damn, you're good, Lupe, psychic even, huh?

"There are one or two members posting in this thread who never seem to read more than the first sentence of a long post, make up the rest out of whole cloth, and then insist for months that their preconceptions are in fact what they read. To them I've rendered the service of directing their limited attention."

Must be nice to read the minds of other posters, learning who are the gatekeepers, and which of us are those who read only a line or two.

Excerpting cherry-picked details can sometimes be helpful and can also sometimes project a sense within the reader entirely different from an article's overall meaning. Especially when there may be better points to explore one seems to ignore that would be worth pursuing that would bolster their claims.
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby DrEvil » Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:52 pm

lupercal wrote:There are one or two members posting in this thread who never seem to read more than the first sentence of a long post, make up the rest out of whole cloth, and then insist for months that their preconceptions are in fact what they read. To them I've rendered the service of directing their limited attention. :shrug:

p.s. no charge.


I think I just popped a vein. Please tell me you're trolling.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 4142
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Canadian_watcher » Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:47 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:My comment wasn't directed to you, C_w.

I was just responding with my thoughts about your comment, in part agreeing and also disagreeing, only to add that some perfectly sane, clear-minded people commit murder and as I believe in preternatural evil, that some murders are committed by people possessed by such an evil.

You also wrote, "Might I gently suggest that you have a somewhat distinct view on these types of situations - one that helps and also hurts a search for the truth. I mean that with respect."

I'm not offended. Thank you for your honesty.
I do not see how my perspective could hinder the truth. My frustration earlier was mostly on specious speculation, some quite wild and in my opinion, doing so endangered innocents. I mean the bodies weren't even cold when it first started. I'm a bit more methodical, gathering what I've learned, analyzing the body of evidence and drawing conclusions. To my way of thinking, some here seem to work backwards. They come to conclusions and then try to fit scant evidence without regard for consequences.
Let's remember this is a discussion board and not a court of law. Our conversations have little impact on any beyond our own readers and any conclusions we reach will have no bearing on this or any other case. Let's remember too, that our search for truth here has no impact on those whose search for truth matters in the real world beyond these pages. But we sure do like to argue!
After all, anyone can claim 'conspiracy' about almost anything at all, for whatever stated motive. Doesn't make it true, tho.


Thanks for taking the time to reply Iamwhomiam. I'm glad to know that I didn't offend you. I hope I won't when I tell you that I have observed some people get very ... there's not really a word for it .. vigilant is close when they've been hurt and that's what I meant by 'hindering the search for the truth. Thinking about it again, though, I think you're right and I was wrong to make that statement in the first place. I don't think it's true, except maybe for a short time period when the anger is still there. None of us thinks as logically when we are filtered through anger.

And fwiw, I agree that the speculation over this case started far too soon and it was far too .. shall we say 'out there' and disrespectful of the grieving in that way, too. I just want to reiterate that I did not follow the story as it unfolded at all because sometimes I can't take it.. I can't deal with that type of horror and the feeding frenzy around it and so I chose not to. I mention that so you'll know that I am not really debating any theory of the crime here at all.

thanks for your thoughts, much appreciated. :hug1:
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Project Willow » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:02 am

I have a google alert for DID. Sometimes the only mainstream stories, regrettably, involve criminal activity. I tend to avoid posting those, as you know, it is not reflective of the norm. I thought this might add something, however limited, to the thread, so here it is. File it under, we really can't know what is happening behind weatherstripped, suburban front doors.

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-amber-alert-0301-20130228,0,2629376.story
Medical Examiner Rules Boys' Deaths Homicide; Grandmother Suicide
DAVID OWENS, dowens@courant.com The Hartford Courant
6:04 p.m. EST, March 1, 2013
NORTH STONINGTON

The state medical examiner's office confirmed Friday that the cause of death of Alton and Ashton Perry, the two boys shot by their grandmother on Tuesday, was homicide.

Alton Perry, 2, died of a gunshot wound to the head, the medical examiner's office said. Six-month-old Ashton Perry died of multiple gunshot wounds.

Their grandmother, Debra Denison, 47, died of a gunshot wound to the head. Her cause of death was suicide, the medical examiner said.

A vigil to remember the boys is scheduled for 7 p.m. Friday at the recreation field on Rocky Hollow Road in North Stonington. Funeral arrangements for the boys are incomplete.

State police continue to investigate where Denison got the revolver, her mental health history and other relevant issues. A .38-caliber revolver was used in the killings, authorities said. It was described as "missing" from the home Denison shared with her husband Jance Denison in Stonington. Police on Friday declined to release additional information.

Denison, 47, "suffered from DID, which is split-personality disorder," Robert White, Jeremy Perry's uncle, said Thursday. Denison had been in remission for 17 months and had been cleared by a physician, he said.

DID, or dissociative identity disorder, was once known as multiple personality disorder, according to the website of the National Alliance on Mental Illness, NAMI. In DID, two or more separate and distinct identities control a person's behavior at different times.

Often people with DID are depressed or suicidal, according to NAMI. About one-third of DID patients complain of auditory or visual hallucinations, and commonly complain of hearing voices within their head.

According to court records, Denison had attempted suicide at least twice, in 1989 and 1990.

The Perry family continues to struggle with the death of the boys, but has been heartened by the outpouring of support from friends, neighbors and their larger community.

Jeremy and Brenda Perry, the boys' parents, are "doing well given the circumstances," White said.

He thanked the community "for the outpouring of support" for the family and was overcome as he described his nephews as "the happiest two little guys you've ever seen."

Denison picked up the children at Kidds & Co. day care in North Stonington on Tuesday afternoon — something she had done before and had permission to do on Tuesday. She drove the boys to a boat launch at nearby Lake of Isles and shot them both before turning the gun on herself, police believe.

"The family does not blame Kidds & Co. in any way," White said, reading from a statement prepared by the boys' parents. "They are an excellent and safe facility for the children. Jeremy and Brenda know the proper protocol was followed in releasing the children to their grandmother on that afternoon."

White said the Perrys will speak about what happened "when the time is right. However, they are in dire need of their space and privacy as they try to grieve and mourn the unbearable loss of their two children."

Asked about the loss of the children, he said, "Just can't explain it. I mean, these are two babies, innocent children. I'm just trying to absorb it."
User avatar
Project Willow
 
Posts: 4798
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:42 am

Thanks for that article, Willow. The article I read omitted the DID, so that part was new to me. And again, who knows what the truth here is. So easy to off one with a history of mental illness and have an investigation go no further. Crazy did it.

Canadian_watcher, thank you. Before my son was killed I never read any stories relating murders; I did not want the images in my head. If all that exists is my own conscience.. well, I didn't want to have to review those horrors after my passing. Regarding anger: the only time I felt angry and vengeful was when I learned some 20 hours after the fact than some guy might have killed my son, and it passed almost instantly as It was then I also learned the murderer had killed himself. Anger serves no useful purpose, at least in my experience and remaining angry at someone who's dead is pointless. Saddened, yes, greatly. Holding anger is confused with holding onto your lost child and letting go of it some must feel down-deep inside they are giving-up and letting go of their child. They think it gives them some comfort, but really, it eats away at their own humanity.

While his suicide leaves unanswered and unanswerable questions, it was also a gift. We've been spared the life-long anger experienced by other victims I associate with from the same event and from other incidents. Trials, long trials where defense counsel will need to re-victimize surviving victims and the families, parents, of the murdered children when defending the accused. And then at sentencing, and again every few years at parole hearings.

As long as there is an object to receive your directed anger, you will do just that, or most will, thinking they're doing all they can for their child or simply being vengeful towards the killer of their loved one.

As a matter of fact, this gave me a unique view not shared by most of the others victimized by homicide in our Family & Friends of Homicide Victims support group. We worked for awhile with folks working on Parole Reform, meeting with felons who had murdered but were now free. A point of contention was the Victims' Impact Statement, which is to be read before sentencing in open court. This also helps the judge, (I believe) determine the impact upon survivors. But it is being misused.

When one is sentenced and jailed, they're given the equivalent of an individual educational plan. I cannot recall it's proper name, but it set goals each prisoner is expected to attain. If they satisfactorily reach those goal and demonstrate good behavior, which anyone must admit is difficult for many in such a place to reach, they have met the preconditions necessary to be eligible for parole.

However, that does not automatically guarantee parole will be granted them.

The current system now allows surviving victims to read and re-read their victim impact statements at each and every parole hearing, which is grossly unfair to the incarcerated as the VIS is only to be used to help determine sentencing.

The Parole Reformers wanted this practice to end and I alone among our group supported them. In a few cases from our group, the murderer, a domestic partner, committed suicide. Others, like those victimized by a psycho-sociopath who chopped up 13 women and buried body parts in his basement (with his family living in the house) who was sentenced to life w/o parole will always remain in prison, opposed ending this unfair practice. Hate and anger are awful things that fester. A dis-ease.

And people change while in prison. The 40 year old man after 20 years in prison is far different than the 18 year old who committed the murder they're imprisoned for and will change for the good or the bad and that is certain. No one benefits from keeping imprisoned such a person who has bettered himself while incarcerated. After all, that's supposed to be the point and the only basis for granting parole -- how they behave while in prison; not to re-judge what they were sentenced for.

Edited to add 'p' to body arts to read body parts. (After all, burying body arts in one's basement is not the strict domain of psycho-sociopaths.)
Last edited by Iamwhomiam on Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby 8bitagent » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:46 am

Geezus H Christ...you people are still talking about this case? Fuck. Meanwhile the next op is being prepped, ready for your 56 page dissemination. #whatevs
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby conniption » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:27 pm

8bitagent wrote:Geezus H Christ...you people are still talking about this case? Fuck. Meanwhile the next op is being prepped, ready for your 56 page dissemination. #whatevs


It happens to be 74 pages, dearest.

Here I thought you were a dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy theorist. "whatevs" to you.

*

conniption
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:19 am

conniption wrote:Here I thought you were a dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy theorist.


Why would anyone want to be that? As I've said elsewhere on RI, I reject the term categorically as hopelessly imprecise and as a mystification of often obvious, overt facts -- as well as irretrievably tainted by sloppy, promiscuous usage, both as an all-purpose attack term by the conspiracy panickers (the "skeptics") and by the self-destructive set who bizarrely embrace it as a self-identification.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Nordic » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:22 am

I hate the term, too. It's thrown around the way the word "terrorist" is.

By the way don't forget to Support Our Troops"
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby conniption » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:27 am

Image
conniption
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:10 pm

Thanks, conniption. That's pretty funny. especially reading it now, just after posting this on another blog, "Isn’t it astounding that the radical pro-gun conspiracy theorists can imagine the government is ‘conspiring’ to confiscate their weapons, yet cannot understand that the firearms manufacturers are using them as marketing tools?

When one believes such a government conspiracy is afoot, they seem to ignore the reality of what’s occurred at and since Sandy Hook. After all, when one asks who would benefit from such horrors, “Cui bono?”, and looks at gun sales since, well… it’s not the government that’s benefited."
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests