Sibel Edmonds talks about Gladio B

[stillrobertpaulsen]

I just finished Part Two and am starting Part Three. I had heard of the Grey Wolves, but wasn't too familiar with them. If anyone else has more info I would appreciate it, but I found this thread fascinating:

Grey Wolves



Grey Wolves (Turkish: Bozkurtlar) or Idealist Youth (Turkish: �lk�c� Gen�lik) is an ultra-nationalist[1] neo-fascist[2][3][4][5][6][7][8] youth organization of the Turkish Nationalist Movement Party (Turkish: Milliyet�i Hareket Partisi, MHP).[9].[10][11][12]
They are named after Asena, a legendary ancient female wolf that led captive Turks to freedom. Their formal name in Turkish is �lk�c�ler (idealists) and �lk�c� Hareket (The Idealist Movement), inspired from 19th Century Turkish writer Ziya G�kalp later developed by 20th century writer Nihal Ats?z (who was, incidentally, a high school teacher of Alparslan T�rke?) and Italian fascist Giovanni Gentile's "Actual Idealism" theory as a pseudo-philosophical reference.
�lk� Ocaklar? (Forges of Ideal), the proper platform of Grey Wolves, denies any "direct" links with MHP and presents itself as an independent youth organisation. Their female supporters are called Asena.
The Grey Wolves were the most visible force at the command of the Counter-Guerrilla; the Turkish branch of Operation Gladio.[13] They were essentially pawns in the Cold War, harassing leftists on behalf of the rightist establishment. By using such paramilitary structures, the leaders were able to maintain a facade of plausible deniability. According to Turkish authorities, the organization carried out 694 murders from 1974�1980.[14]

History


Foundation and ideology

The Grey Wolves were founded as the youth organization of the Nationalist Movement Party (MHP) created by Alparslan T�rke? in 1969.[15] A significant pillar of the MHP's ideology is the dream of creating the Turan, the "Great Turkish Empire", including all Turkic peoples mainly in the successor Central Asian countries of the former Soviet Union as well as the Caucasus and the Uygurs' homeland of East Turkestan in the Xinjiang province of Northwestern China.
The Grey Wolves also rally around Pan-Turkic Causes including: the economic isolation and territorial integrity of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus; the Armenian military occupation[16] of Nagorno-Karabakh and surrounding areas, and the subsequent displacement of Azeri civilians; the assimilation campaigns and suppression of the Iraqi Turkmens in Kirkuk and adjacent regions in Northern Iraq by the Kurdistan Regional Government; and the suppression of Uygur culture and Chinese colonization of Eastern Turkestan. The Grey Wolves are also known to be supporters of Azeri activists that campaign for greater cultural rights in Iran.
They have also been known to support non-Turkic people whom they consider to have kinship with Turkish people. It is for this reason that Grey Wolves have supported the Chechen Independence Struggle, the KLA-led Albanian movement in Kosovo, and the Bosniaks' resistance in the Bosnian War.

Role in 1980 military coup

At the time of the military coup of September 12, 1980, led by general Kenan Evren (who was also the leader of Counter-Guerrilla)[17] there were some 1,700 Grey Wolves organizations, with about 200,000 registered members and a million sympathisers. Grey Wolves, also known as Commandos conducted assassinations against left-wing intellectuals and academics in Turkey. The torturing and killing of many left-wing partisans and sympathisers are among their crimes. Grey Wolves, besides assassinations and bombings, also participated in massacres of minority community members in �orum and Mara?. However, after being useful for Kenan Evren's strategy of tension, the leader of the Counter-Guerrilla turned president outlawed the MHP and the Grey Wolves. Colonel T�rke? and other Grey Wolves were arrested. In its indictment of the MHP in May 1981, the Turkish military government charged 220 members of the MHP and its affiliates for 694 murders.[18] However, imprisoned Grey Wolves members were offered amnesty if they accepted to fight the Kurdish separatism and the PKK,[19] and ASALA ("Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia").
The Grey Wolves then lost many of its core cadres to the neo-liberal Motherland Party or various vestiges of the Islamist movement. In 1983, the Nationalist Task Party ("Milliyet�i �al??ma Partisi", M�P) was founded as a successor to the MHP; as of 1992 it is again known as the MHP.

Role in Kurdish affairs

The MHP is strongly opposed to Kurdish separatists, namely the militant PKK, although they nevertheless do have some Kurdish supporters, who are called Bozk�rtler or "Grey Kurds".
The paramilitary wing of the Grey Wolves have been utilized by the Turkish intelligence services to assassinate PKK leaders.[15] The fact that Counter-Guerrilla had engaged in torture was confirmed by Talat Turhan, a former Turkish colonel.[17]

Activities to date

On a global scale, the Grey Wolves are suspected to have been responsible for numerous political assassinations and disappearances of Turkish and Kurdish human rights activists, and are known to have ties with the Turkish mafia.[20] The Grey Wolves have also raised funds for Chechen guerrilla separatists, whom they consider their brothers.[21]
In 1996 the Grey Wolves were brought in great numbers to resist a peaceful protest against the occupation of Cyprus by Greek Cypriot members of the Cypriot Motorcycle association. As a result, the violent beating perpetuated by members of the group Tasos Isaac was brutally murdered. The activities were captured.[22]
In December 1996, the Grey Wolves attacked left-wing students and teachers at Istanbul University, under police sanction.[23]
In 2004, the Grey Wolves prevented the screening of Atom Egoyan's Ararat in Turkey, a film about the Armenian Genocide.[24][25][26][27]
Since 2004 Grey Wolves and Islamist Nizam-? Alem members waged a war against Christianity in Turkey. Turkish-Armenian journalist Hrant Dink was also assassinated by a Grey Wolf sympathizer (Og�n Samast) at Istanbul in 2007. Another young Grey Wolf assassinated Father Andrea Santoro; a Catholic Priest; at Trabzon in 2006. A group of Grey Wolves conducted an inhuman torture and killing party; against Bible publishing firm members in Malatya, torturing and killing 3 innocent people.

Links to Operation Gladio



Numerous sources show that the MHP and the Grey Wolves had ties to the Turkish mafia, to the Turkish intelligence services as well as to the CIA and other intelligence agencies. Former military public attorney and member of the Turkish Supreme Court, Emin De?er, has established that the Grey Wolves collaborated with the counter-insurgency governmental forces, as well as the close ties between these state security forces and the CIA.[28][29][30] Indeed, Martin A. Lee also wrote that the para-military wing of the Grey Wolves were covertly supported by the CIA, which worked with the Gladio network,[15] while a December 5, 1990 article by the Swiss Neue Z�rcher Zeitung stated that the Counter-Guerrilla had their headquarters in the building of the US DIA military secret service.[31] Le Monde diplomatique wrote that "the CIA used proponents of the Greater Turkey to stir up anti-sovietic passions at the heart of Turkish Muslim minorities in the Soviet Union".[28] Thus, in 1992, colonel T�rkes went to newly-independent Azerbaijan, where he was acclaimed as a hero. He supported Grey Wolves sympathiser Ab�lfaz El�ibay's candidacy to the presidency. Once elected, El�ibay chose as ministry of Interior ?sgandar Hamidov, a member of the Grey Wolves who plead for the creation of a Greater Turkey which would include northern Iran and extend itself to Siberia, India and China. Hamidov resigned in April 1993 after having threatened Armenia with a nuclear strike.[28]
According to Daniele Ganser, a researcher at the ETH Z�rich University, the founder of the Grey Wolves, Alparslan T�rke? was a member of Counter-Guerrilla, the Turkish branch of Gladio, a stay-behind NATO anti-communist paramilitary organization which was supposed to prepare networks for guerrilla warfare in case of a Soviet invasion.[17] Le Monde diplomatique confirms that the Grey Wolves were infiltrated and manipulated by Gladio, and that important Grey Wolves member Abdullah �atl? had worked with Gladio. According to the same article, Abdullah �atl? met with Italian international terrorist Stefano Delle Chiaie, who, apart of taking part in Italy' strategy of tension, also maintained links with Pinochet's DINA and participated in the Argentinian dirty war.[32] However, it is alleged that in Italy and Turkey, Gladio supported a strategy of tension (Italian: strategia della tensione) which used false flag terrorist attacks in order to discredit the communist movement.[33][34]

Grey Wolves outside of Turkey


Republic of Azerbaijan

The Grey Wolves are believed to have provided support to Azeri forces fighting Armenians during the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. The Grey Wolves Party still functions in Azerbaijan, although its name has been changed to the Azerbaijan National Democrat Party.[35][36]

Europe

The Grey Wolves in western Europe today were originally sent there at the end of the 1970s and the early 1980s to infiltrate Turkish immigrant workers.[citation needed] Their task was to combat Turkish left-wingers who had left Turkey because of harsh state repression but, later also focused on Kurds.[citation needed] As a result, the Grey Wolves stepped up their activities in the Netherlands by founding the TFN, Turkish Federation of Holland, in 1995. The latter now has around 56 local units and an estimated membership of 30,000.[citation needed]

Italy

According to investigative reporter Lucy Komisar, the 1981 attempt on Pope John Paul II's life by Grey Wolves member Mehmet Ali A?ca may have been related to Gladio. Ali A?ca would in this case have been manipulated by NATO's clandestine structure, in an attempt to fuel again Italy's strategy of tension, which last big event was the 1980 Bologna massacre. Komissar underlines the fact that Ali A?ca had worked with Abdullah �atl? in the January 1, 1979 murder of Abdi ?pek�i, the editor of left-wing newspaper Milliyet. "�atl? then reportedly helped organize A?ca's escape from an Istanbul military prison, and some have suggested Catli was even involved in the Pope's assassination attempt" reports Lucy Komisar, adding that at the scene of the Mercedes-Benz crash where �atl? died, he was found with a passport under the name of "Mehmet �zbay" - an alias also used by Mehmet Ali A?ca.[37]

Cyprus

The Grey Wolves went to Cyprus to support Turkish Cypriot protesters in 1996. The Grey Wolves were involved in attacks on Greek Cypriot properties and Greek Cypriot activists.[38]

See also

List of assassinated people from Turkey
Great Union Party
Pan Turkism
Turanism


References

^ " Update to the UNHCR CDR Background Paper on Refugees and Asylum Seekers from Turkey" - UNHCR
^ Political Terrorism, by Alex Peter Schmid, A. J. Jongman, Michael Stohl, Transaction Publishers, 2005p. 674
^ Annual of Power and Conflict, ?by Institute for the Study of Conflict, National Strategy Information Center, 1982, p. 148
^ The Nature of Fascism, by Roger Griffin, Routledge, 1993, p. 171
^ Political Parties and Terrorist Groups, by Leonard Weinberg, Ami Pedahzur, Arie Perliger, Routledge, 2003, p. 154
^ The Inner Sea: The Mediterranean and Its People, by Robert Fox, 1991, p. 260
^ http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/story33.html
^ [1]
^ Update to the UNHCR CDR Background Paper on Refugees and Asylum Seekers from Turkey - UNHCR movement founded by Alparslan T�rke? in 1969.[dead link]
^ Political Terrorism, by Alex Peter Schmid, A. J. Jongman, Michael Stohl, Transaction Publishers, 2005p. 674
^ The Nature of Fascism, by Roger Griffin, Routledge, 1993, p. 171
^ Political Parties and Terrorist Groups, by Leonard Weinberg, Ami Pedahzur, Arie Perliger, Routledge, 2003, p. 154
^ Pacal, Jan (19997-04-04). "The Short and Bloody History of Ulkucus". Turkish Daily News (H�rriyet). http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=-500825. Retrieved on 2008-12-31.
^ Albert J. Jongman, Alex Peter Schmid, Political Terrorism: A New Guide to Actors, Authors, Concepts, Data Bases, Theories, & Literature, pp. 674
^ a b c Lee, Martin A (1999). The Beast Reawakens: Fascism's resurgence from Hitler's Spymasters to Today's Neo-Nazi Groups and Right Wing Extremists. Routledge. ISBN 0415925460. [page number needed]
^ Mr David Atkinson, United Kingdom, European Democrat Group, (Rapporteur) The conflict over the Nagorno-Karabakh region dealt with by the OSCE Minsk Conference, Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, 29 November 2004
^ a b c Daniele Ganser (2005). NATO's Secret Armies, Operation Gladio and Terrorism in Western Europe. London: Franck Cass. ISBN 0714685003. [page number needed]
^ Searchlight (magazine), No.47 (May 1979), pg. 6. Quoted by Edward Herman and Frank Brodhead in The Rise and Fall of the Bulgarian Connection. (New York: Sheridan Square, 1986), pg. 50.
^ Former Grey Wolves member ?brahim �ift�i speaking to Milliyet on 13 November 1996. "They have used and discarded us". Turkish Daily News. Milliyet. 1996-11-14. http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=-500660. Retrieved on 2008-10-22.
^ "Turkish Dirty War Revealed, but Papal Shooting Still Obscured," Martin A. Lee, Los Angeles Times, April 12, 1998.
^ Isingor, Ali (2000). "Istanbul: Gateway to a holy war". CNN (Italy). http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/rus...ul.connection/. Retrieved on 2008-08-28.
^ "Greece condemns Turkish barbarity". Cyprus News Agency. 1996-08-12. http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/cna/1...08-12.cna.html. Retrieved on 2008-08-27.
^ Ayik, Zeki; Yoruk, Zafer F (1996-12-13). "Istanbul University: Alleged Police-Ulkucu Collaboration Escalates Tensions". Turkish Daily News (H�rriyet). http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=-502244. Retrieved on 2009-01-02.
^ "Egoyan award winning film not shown yet in Turkey". Toronto Star. http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archiv...1/msg00066.htm. Retrieved on 2006-05-06.
^ Sassounian, Harut (2004-01-15). "Gray Wolves Spoil Turkey's Publicity Ploy on Ararat". California Courier. ADL Ramgavar Azadagan France. http://adl.hayway.org/default_zone/g.../page3590.html. Retrieved on 2008-08-27.
^ �lk� Ocaklari: Ararat Yayinlanamaz (Turkish)
^ �lk� Ocaklari: ARARAT'I Cesaretiniz Varsa Yayinlayin! (Turkish)
^ a b c Lee, Martin A. Les liaisons dangereuses de la police turque," Le Monde diplomatique, March 1997 (French)
^ The Double Standard: The Turkish State and Racist Violence (Chapter 13) in Racism in Europe (edited by Tore Bjorgo) (ISBN 0-312-12409-0)
^ Maksudyan, Nazan (November 2005), "The Turkish Review of Anthropology and the Racist Face of Turkish Nationalism", Cultural Dynamics 17 (3): 291�322, doi:10.1177/0921374005061992
^ "NATO's Secret Armies: Chronology". Parallel History Project on Cooperative Security. ETH Z�rich. http://www.php.isn.ethz.ch/collectio...?navinfo=15301. Retrieved on 2008-08-27.
^ Nezan, Kendal (1998 July). "Turkey's pivotal role in the international drug trade". Le Monde Diplomatique. http://mondediplo.com/1998/07/05turkey.
^ Official documents on ISN (hosted by ETH Z�rich) concerning Gladio, including SIFAR (Italian military service) report on Gladio, extracts of former CIA director William Colby's memoirs, Italian prime minister Giulio Andreotti's public revelation to the Senate of the existence of Gladio in October 1990, Parliamentary investigation into the Swiss Defense Ministry, 1995 Italian parliamentary report on Terrorism, etc
^ Secret Warfare: Operation Gladio and NATO's Stay-Behind Armies ETH Z�rich research project on Gladio directed by Dr. Daniele Ganser. Many documents available in various languages, including Turkish articles; audio interviews of Ganser; Ganser's June 2005 article in The Whitehead Journal of Diplomacy and International Relations; Der Spiegel article, etc.
^ Fuller, Liz (2003-06-23). "AZERBAIJANI PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN GETS UNDER WAY". RFE/RL Caucasus Report (Radio Free Europe) 6 (23). http://rfe.rferl.org/reports/caucasu.../23-260603.asp. Retrieved on 2008-08-27.
^ Fuller, Liz (2007-05-30). "Azerbaijan: Date For Presidential Ballot Confirmed". Radio Free Europe. http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1076817.html. Retrieved on 2008-08-27.
^ Komisar, Lucy. "The Assassins of a Pope". http://www.monitor.net/monitor/9703b...a-sidebar.html. Retrieved on 2006-07-04.
^ "TURKISH AUTHORITIES INCITED BUFFER ZONE VIOLENCE". Cyprus Newsletter. EMBASSY OF CYPRUS, WASHINGTON DC. September 1, 1996. http://www.kypros.org/Embassy/Newsle...96/sept96.html. Retrieved on 2008-08-27.



External links

Resources for researchers (English) (Dutch) (German)
�lk� Ocaklar? (Turkish)
Mudanya �lk� Ocaklar? (Turkish)

https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sh ... rey-Wolves

[stillrobertpaulsen]

Here's Part Four from Sibel Edmonds:

Sibel Edmonds of BoilingFrogsPost.com joins us for the fourth part of our series on Gladio B, the NATO-directed effort to radicalize, enable and protect Islamic terrorists to further their own geopolitical ends. In this installment we discuss the drug traffickers who have been protected by the NATO Gladio network and the money launderers who help to “clean” the proceeds of this trafficking.

http://www.corbettreport.com/interview- ... aundering/

[stillrobertpaulsen]

Interview 616 – Sibel Edmonds Answers Questions on Gladio B

After four hours of intense conversation on Gladio B, this week James and Sibel take a step back to consolidate some of the information and answer listener questions. In this interview we discuss specific characters and events as well as the broad scope of geopolitics and the great game of British imperialism and Zionist manipulations.

http://www.corbettreport.com/interview- ... -gladio-b/

[stillrobertpaulsen]

I suppose I'm being obsessive about this, but I'm attempting to synopsize the Sibel Edmonds interviews and analyze from my own perspective the deeper implications of Gladio, so far I've completed Part One. So for those of you still interested in following this, here is my most recent blog entry:

Friday, March 8, 2013
Synopsizing Sibel Edmonds: The Evolution of Operation Gladio Part One

[Wombaticus Rex]

Glad someone else is obsessing. You will love this, re: Turkey, Grey Wolves, Gladio - PDF, long, beautifully done...

Turkey's Deep State and the Ergenekon Conundrum

Also, a long-form New Yorker article, certainly colored by a CFR conception of geopolitics and history, but quite insightful:

The Deep State by Dexer Filkins

[LilyPatToo]

I suppose I'm being obsessive about this, but I'm attempting to synopsize the Sibel Edmonds interviews and analyze from my own perspective the deeper implications of Gladio, so far I've completed Part One. So for those of you still interested in following this, here is my most recent blog entry:

Friday, March 8, 2013
Synopsizing Sibel Edmonds: The Evolution of Operation Gladio Part One

Thank you for part one of the synopsis. It's already clarified a couple of things for me and I'm looking forward to the rest of your series.

LilyPat

[thatsmystory]

I suppose I'm being obsessive about this, but I'm attempting to synopsize the Sibel Edmonds interviews and analyze from my own perspective the deeper implications of Gladio, so far I've completed Part One. So for those of you still interested in following this, here is my most recent blog entry:

Friday, March 8, 2013
Synopsizing Sibel Edmonds: The Evolution of Operation Gladio Part One

Very helpful synopsis.

In the past Edmonds was careful (and to an extent still is) to keep her commentary on solid ground. Meaning she avoided the whole "9/11 was an inside job!" talking points. But in these interviews she suggests that people who have an issue with Zawahiri and Bin Laden being Gladio partners and people who point to Saudi links to 9/11 are naive. This is the same sort of attitude that someone like Alex Jones would have for anyone who doesn't accept the premise that the globalists pulled off 9/11. In one of the interviews she mentions the weird time when the US responded to the 1998 embassy bombings with cruise missile attacks on a pharmaceutical plant. What is the suggestion? Was the US retaliation intended primarily to enhance al Qaeda's status in the realm of propaganda? Are US factions all on the same page?

IMO it seems Edmonds is taking a shortcut without showing all the work to get to the conclusion. For example AFAIK she had no access to the Saudi translation desk. So how did the Gladio operators interface with the hijackers? In one of the interviews the Saudi involvement is explained by suggesting the Saudi royals are US puppets. How did Saudi royals know they wouldn't be scapegoated?

[stillrobertpaulsen]

Glad someone else is obsessing. You will love this, re: Turkey, Grey Wolves, Gladio - PDF, long, beautifully done...

Turkey's Deep State and the Ergenekon Conundrum

Also, a long-form New Yorker article, certainly colored by a CFR conception of geopolitics and history, but quite insightful:

The Deep State by Dexer Filkins

Excellent, especially the Ergenekon Conundrum, which really spelled out the situation there! I'll be sure to link to that and credit you when I write my analysis of Part Two, which I'll post this week.

[stillrobertpaulsen]

I suppose I'm being obsessive about this, but I'm attempting to synopsize the Sibel Edmonds interviews and analyze from my own perspective the deeper implications of Gladio, so far I've completed Part One. So for those of you still interested in following this, here is my most recent blog entry:

Friday, March 8, 2013
Synopsizing Sibel Edmonds: The Evolution of Operation Gladio Part One

Very helpful synopsis.

In the past Edmonds was careful (and to an extent still is) to keep her commentary on solid ground. Meaning she avoided the whole "9/11 was an inside job!" talking points. But in these interviews she suggests that people who have an issue with Zawahiri and Bin Laden being Gladio partners and people who point to Saudi links to 9/11 are naive. This is the same sort of attitude that someone like Alex Jones would have for anyone who doesn't accept the premise that the globalists pulled off 9/11. In one of the interviews she mentions the weird time when the US responded to the 1998 embassy bombings with cruise missile attacks on a pharmaceutical plant. What is the suggestion? Was the US retaliation intended primarily to enhance al Qaeda's status in the realm of propaganda? Are US factions all on the same page?

IMO it seems Edmonds is taking a shortcut without showing all the work to get to the conclusion. For example AFAIK she had no access to the Saudi translation desk. So how did the Gladio operators interface with the hijackers? In one of the interviews the Saudi involvement is explained by suggesting the Saudi royals are US puppets. How did Saudi royals know they wouldn't be scapegoated?

Good questions that I'm not sure if I know the right answers to, but my observation of Sibel's 9/11 approach is similar. It is pretty nuanced, not falling into the Inside Job parameters. If it can be categorized, not to be comical, but it sounds like her approach is: 9/11 was an Outsourced Job. Through Gladio B, the US had even greater plausible denial through the mujahadeen than they did through the "stay-behind" paramilitary ops. But it all comes back here.

I just finished my synopsis of Part Two. Not sure if her stuff on the Saudis was Part 3 or 4, but I think it's important to remember a couple things. First, the perspective she is providing is not just the fired FBI translator story, although as she relates in Part Two, there was quite a lot of dots she was able to connect through that experience. But her current perspective is also colored by her work creating NSWBC and what she has learned through all the whistleblowers there like Robert Wright, Tony Shaffer, etc. Agents with 20+ years worth of stories with even more dots to connect. Second, though the popular story in MSM is that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis, that's not true, 15 of the 19 had Saudi passports. So I'm not sure if the Saudi financial connection really was as much of a smoking gun as say, the Pakistani ISI/Ahmed/Sheikh/Atta connection.

But I agree, that pharmaceutical plant bombing remark puzzled me. Was it about propaganda enhancing al Qaeda? Or is she suggesting that there was more than just "aspirin" being made there, that perhaps some other "pharmaceutical" tracks were being covered? Perhaps she'll give more insight on that subject in a future interview.

[thatsmystory]

Caller: ... What are Sibel's thoughts about 9/11 possibly being an inside job?

Sibel Edmonds: As I have done for the past 7 or 8 years, I have basically stuck with what I know, first-hand, directly, my own knowledge, based on my own experience, based on what I obtained, which is not a lot, but it is extremely important.

And to answer a question like "Was it an inside job?" would be, first of all, preposterous for me to make that call. But what I can tell you is, based on what we know already - and these are the confirmed cases, like Colleen Rowley - look at her and her case - and look at the Phoenix Memo with the other FBI agents in the Phoenix field office, and then look at FBI agent Wright in Chicago, look at that case...

And if you read James Bamford's latest book, what the NSA obtained from Yemen before September 11, because we were following two of these hijackers in Yemen... Well, if you put all those things, all this information that has come from various agencies, in one place, and you look at it, and you say "Wow!"

You know, it is very easy to write off things when you have one or two slip-ups, and you attribute certain things to bureaucratic bungling - but it goes beyond that... Now, what is that? As I said, I wont be able to answer the question, but what I can answer is, yes, we had this 911 Commission that was formed (laughs) and first we had Henry Kissinger appointed to be the Chairman, this tells you what kind of Commission they had in mind, which was going to be cosmetic. It was pretty obvious. Then we had the final Commission, with a bunch of people with conflicts of interest, and we didn't get anything.

As you see, people have been gagged, a lot of things have been classified... And you think 'Why would they go so far to cover up bureaucratic bungling?' Again, that doesn't mean that this was an inside job, but what it tells you is that there are a lot of things that we don't know, there are a lot of things that our government doesn’t want us to know.

I mean, the recent thing just came out a few days ago with the case against Saudi Arabia, with the 9/11 family members. Well yesterday it made it to the front page of the New York Times with Eric Lichtblau, OK. So now the Justice Department under Obama is saying 'No you can't get this information because we want to protect Saudi Arabia.' Well, protect them against what? So those are the questions that have not been answered. And those questions that have been answered, nothing has been done about it, and no explanation has been given to us. So we have all these issues, and there is no simple answer, but one simple answer is that, yes, we are facing a lot of cover-up. And I want to know why, and I'm sure you want to know why too.

Brad Friedman: Nah, I don't want to know (laughs). So it's fair to say in your case then that you don't necessarily have information that you haven’t been able to disclose that reveals that 9/11 was an inside job, you just have, like I do, concerns about the information that we have, the bad information that we have...

Sibel Edmonds: (interrupts) I have to jump in here and say that I have information about things that our government has lied to us about. I know. For example, to say that since the fall of the Soviet Union we ceased all of our intimate relationship with Bin Laden and the Taliban - those things can be proven as lies, very easily, based on the information they classified in my case, because we did carry very intimate relationship with these people, and it involves Central Asia, all the way up to September 11.

I know you are going to say 'Oh my God, we went there and bombed the medical factory in the 1990s during Clinton, we declared him Most Wanted' and what I'm telling you is, with those groups, we had operations in Central Asia, and that relationship - using them as we did during the Afghan and Soviet conflict - we used them all the way until September 11.

From an interview with Brad Friedman

[thatsmystory]

Good questions that I'm not sure if I know the right answers to, but my observation of Sibel's 9/11 approach is similar. It is pretty nuanced, not falling into the Inside Job parameters. If it can be categorized, not to be comical, but it sounds like her approach is: 9/11 was an Outsourced Job. Through Gladio B, the US had even greater plausible denial through the mujahadeen than they did through the "stay-behind" paramilitary ops. But it all comes back here.

I just finished my synopsis of Part Two. Not sure if her stuff on the Saudis was Part 3 or 4, but I think it's important to remember a couple things. First, the perspective she is providing is not just the fired FBI translator story, although as she relates in Part Two, there was quite a lot of dots she was able to connect through that experience. But her current perspective is also colored by her work creating NSWBC and what she has learned through all the whistleblowers there like Robert Wright, Tony Shaffer, etc. Agents with 20+ years worth of stories with even more dots to connect. Second, though the popular story in MSM is that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis, that's not true, 15 of the 19 had Saudi passports. So I'm not sure if the Saudi financial connection really was as much of a smoking gun as say, the Pakistani ISI/Ahmed/Sheikh/Atta connection.

It didn't help for some theorists to keep hyping the "some of the hijackers are still alive!" theory. I looked into the airports via open sources and information was hard to come by. I have always found it weird how we heard from Portland Jetport ticket agent Michael Touhey (and his vivid recollections of Atta) but did not hear from the actual 9/11 gate agents. To my knowledge not one of the 9/11 gate agents has ever been interviewed by the media. This is what I found:

1) A couple of Paul Sperry (WND) articles describe the Flight 11 gate agent. This evidently was the gate agent rumored to have committed suicide. AFAIK, this was proven to be a hoax. IMO this notion that the gate agents bear any blame is absurd. Some debunkers like to infer that seeking to know their firsthand accounts is the same thing as suggesting they are in some way responsible.

2)Gail Jawahir. AFAICT, she was a ticket check in agent and not the actual Flight 175 gate agent though on some websites she was ID'ed as the gate agent.

3)Reclaiming the Sky by Tom Murphy has the description by the Flight 93 gate agent. “They were too well-dressed. Too well-dressed for that early in the morning. And their muscles rippled below their suits. And their eyes.” Early in the book Murphy refers to the workout sessions by the hijackers at a gym. So he clearly seems to be linking the workout sessions to the description provided by the Flight 93 gate agent. Whether all four truly bulked up at the gym is another issue. He also relates by way of a Logan customer service manager the observation of UA employees who dealt with Flight 175 hijackers. They too commented on their eyes. I guess their eyes gave signs of anger or some sort of fanaticism.

But I agree, that pharmaceutical plant bombing remark puzzled me. Was it about propaganda enhancing al Qaeda? Or is she suggesting that there was more than just "aspirin" being made there, that perhaps some other "pharmaceutical" tracks were being covered? Perhaps she'll give more insight on that subject in a future interview.

In the interview exchange in the previous post Edmonds notes that it was contradictory to bomb a business partner. This is what makes the whole thing confusing. In Coll's book Ghost Wars he lays out all sorts of operations intended to capture/kill Bin Laden. So you wonder when you read this WTF is true. Especially considering that two key people involved in all these efforts were Cofer Black and Richard Blee. The two guys directly involved in the biggest 9/11 contradiction of warning about an attack while protecting al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar at the same time.

[stillrobertpaulsen]

It didn't help for some theorists to keep hyping the "some of the hijackers are still alive!" theory. I looked into the airports via open sources and information was hard to come by.

That's been my experience too. The only time I thought that theory might have some validity was when they published the Dulles security checkpoint photo of Hani Hanjour with the full hairline and beard. For the longest time I thought that solved the question of how someone with his miniscule flight training could have done "loop-de-loops" around the Pentagon: he never got on Flight 77! But unlike the Oswald in Mexico City photo, where we never did get a real photo, it turns out there was footage at Dulles of the Hanjour with the receding hairline we've seen in other photos.

In the interview exchange in the previous post Edmonds notes that it was contradictory to bomb a business partner. This is what makes the whole thing confusing. In Coll's book Ghost Wars he lays out all sorts of operations intended to capture/kill Bin Laden. So you wonder when you read this WTF is true. Especially considering that two key people involved in all these efforts were Cofer Black and Richard Blee. The two guys directly involved in the biggest 9/11 contradiction of warning about an attack while protecting al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar at the same time.

I agree, I think what makes it confusing is the compartmentalization of those "in the know" has no comprehensive index. Guys like Grossman and Perle are easy to single out. Cofer Black and Richard Blee? Not sure if they're "in the know" or following orders. Black of course went on to Blackwater after serving the CIA. I don't know too much about Blee, but anyone whose only known public photo is at age nine is someone who really knows how to live life in the shadows.

[jcivil]

Her engagement and enthusiasm is always refreshing.

Every day she lives is a good sign?

Ah. Stand firm. Stand Firm.

[stillrobertpaulsen]

Still going strong with Part Six, including links to my blog. Sibel even answers my question about the Gladio B Pentagon office at about the 1 hour mark!

In this sixth part of the ongoing Sibel Edmonds Gladio B conversation, we ask the question: Who is at the top of the pyramid. We look beyond the usual suspects and follow the money back to the industries and lobbies whose existence depends on the perpetuation of boogeymen enemies.

http://www.corbettreport.com/interview- ... e-pyramid/

Here's my synopsis and analysis of Part Three:

Synopsizing Sibel Edmonds: The Evolution of Operation Gladio Part Three

[seemslikeadream]

April 04, 2013

Israel vs. The RestTurkey’s Unsustainable Politics in the Middle East
by RAMZY BAROUD

‘Confused’ may be an appropriate term to describe Turkey’s current foreign policy in the Middle East and Israel in particular. The source of that confusion – aside from the appalling violence in Syria and earlier in Libya – is Turkey’s own mistakes.

The Turkish government’s inconsistency regarding Israel highlights earlier discrepancy in other political contexts. There was a time when Turkey’s top foreign policy priority included reaching out diplomatically to Arab and Muslim countries. Then, we spoke of a paradigm shift, whereby Ankara was repositioning its political center, reflecting perhaps economic necessity, but also cultural shifts within its own society. It seemed that the East vs. West debate was skillfully being resolved by politicians of the Justice and Development Party (AKP).

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, along with Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, appeared to have obtained a magical non-confrontational approach to Turkey’s historic political alignment. ‘The Zero Problems’ policy allowed Turkey to brand itself as a bridge between two worlds. The country’s economic growth and strategic import to various geopolitical spheres allowed it to escape whatever price meted out by Washington and its European allies as a reprimand for its bold political moves – including Erdogan’s unprecedented challenge of Israel.

Indeed, there was a link between the growing influence of Turkey among Arab and Islamic countries and Turkey’s challenge to Israel’s violent behavior in Palestine and Lebanon, and its rattling against Syria and Iran. Turkey’s return to its political roots was unmistakable, yet interestingly, was not met by too strong an American response. Washington couldn’t simply isolate Ankara and the latter shrewdly advanced its own power and influence with that knowledge in mind. Even the bizarre anti-Turkish statements by Israeli officials sounded more like incoherent rants than actual foreign policy.

Political arrogance and US-financed military strength are two pillars by which Israel maintains its clout in the region. The first was childishly applied when then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon publicly snubbed Turkey’s Ambassador Ahmet Oguz Celikkol in January 2010 by placing him on a lower sofa, then asked Israeli journalists to take note of the insult. The second came in May 2010 when Israeli commandos descended on the Turkish ship Mavi Marmara, carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza, and killed nine Turkish citizens in cold blood.

‘Idiocy’ is how Israeli columnist Uri Avnery described Israel’s behavior towards Turkey, which was once one of Israel’s most vital allies. But idiocy has little to do with it and Turkey knew that well. Israel wished to send strong messages to the Turks, that its strategic and political maneuvering was of no use here and that Israel would continue to reign supreme in the face of Erdogan’s ambitious policies. The real ‘idiocy’ was Israel’s miscalculations, which failed to take into account that such behavior could only speed up Turkey’s political transformation. The fact that the US was losing its once unchallenged grip over the fate of the Middle East had also contributed to Turkey’s sudden rise as a country with far-reaching ties and long-term political vision. Erdogan quickly rose to prominence. His responses to Israel’s provocations and to what was essentially a declaration of war came in the form of strong words and measured actions. He conditioned any rapprochement with Israel on a clear apology over its transgressions, compensations to the victims and the families of the dead, and ending the siege on Gaza. The last condition further highlighted Turkey’s new political priorities.

As far as Turkey’s regional ascendency was concerned, it mattered little whether Israel apologized. Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was losing favor, even with his own allies in Washington. And unlike Washington, under the thumb of the pro-Israeli lobby, Ankara was a country with independent foreign policy.

When AKP triumphed in Turkey’s elections in June 2011, the so-called Arab Spring was still in its early stages. Then, much hope was placed on the rise of popular movements in countries that have been disfigured by Arab dictators and their Western benefactors. Not only did the ruling party disregard the fact that Turkey had taken part of the old political structure in the Middle East, it also escaped them that Turkey was an important member of NATO which unleashed a terrible war on Libya on March 19, deliberately misinterpreting UN Security Council Resolution 1973. Yes, Turkey had resisted the war option at first, but was quick to forgive and forget and eventually recognized and supported its political outcome. Thanks to the war, Libya is now in a permanent state of bedlam.

Erdogan’s victory speech in June 2011 attempted to paint a new picture of reality, future prospects and Turkey’s proposed role in all of this. “I greet with affection the peoples of Baghdad, Damascus, Beirut, Amman, Cairo, Tunis, Sarajevo, Skopje, Baku, Nicosia and all other friends and brother peoples who are following the news out of Turkey with great excitement,” Erdogan said. “Today, the Middle East, the Caucasus and the Balkans have won as much as Turkey.”

But that ‘win’ was short-lived. The euphoria of change created many blind spots, one of which is that conflicts of sectarian and ethnic nature – as in Syria – don’t get resolved overnight; that foreign military intervention, direct or by proxy, can only espouse protracted conflict. Indeed, it was in Syria that Turkey’s vision truly fumbled. It was obvious that many were salivating over the outcome of a Syrian war between a brutal regime and a self-serving, divided opposition, each faction espousing one foreign agenda or another. Suddenly, Turkey’s regional and global ambitions of justice and morality grew ever more provisional because of fear of chaos spilling over to its border areas, the tragic rise of the number of Syrian refugees at Turkey’s borders and the fear of a strong Kurdish presence in northern Syria.

Not even capable Turkish politicians could hide the confusion in which they found themselves. Responding to Israel’s bombing of Gaza last November, which killed and wounded hundreds of Palestinians, Erdogan described Israel as a ‘terrorist state.’ “Those who turn a blind eye to discrimination toward Muslims in their own countries, are also closing their eyes to the savage massacre of innocent children in Gaza. … Therefore, I say Israel is a terrorist state.”

But even then, discussions were underway regarding the text of an Israeli apology to Turkey over the Mavi Marmara attack. That apology had finally arrived as an undeserved gift to US President Barack Obama, who visited Israel in March with a message of total support for Israel.

“In light of Israel’s investigation into the incident which pointed to a number of operational mistakes, the Prime Minister expressed Israel’s apology to the Turkish people for any mistakes that might have led to the loss of life or injury and agreed to conclude an agreement on compensation/non-liability,” Netanyahu’s apology read. No commitment regarding Gaza was made. Erdogan’s office responded: “Erdogan told Binyamin Netanyahu that he valued centuries-long strong friendship and cooperation between the Turkish and Jewish nations.” According to Netanyahu, the apology over the ‘operational mistakes’ had everything to do with the need to share intelligence over Syria between both of the countries’ militaries. To balance out Turkey’s hurried retreat to its old political foreign policy, Erdogan is reportedly planning to visit Gaza in April.

“We will take on a more effective role. We will call, as we have, for rights in our region, for justice, for the rule of law, for freedom and democracy,” were the resounded words of Erdogan following his party’s elections victory last year.

It is likely that Ankara will try to maintain a balanced position, but, as Erdogan himself knows, in issues of morality and justice, middle stances are simply untenable.

history to read England in Palestine