Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

[General Patton]

I don't know what's going on but I like it

[FourthBase]

Fair enough, Bruce. I knew I was at least brushing up against a line. Sorry.

The board has rules against, say, Holocaust denial...right?
Are there any rules against, say, the outright denial of the reality of other events?
What about the sneaky hedged variety of Holocaust denial?
What about the equivalent for other events?

As far as I can tell, conniption wasn't engaging in any of the above. He/she was simply suggesting that certain cheering crowds may be considered more equal than other cheering crowds by the people who decide which cheering crowds get shown on the teevee. Nothing more than that.

Carry on.

Would prefer to just carry on, but...
- "Cheering crowds", in quotes
- Reference to the Saddam statue crowd, which was manufactured.

[Iamwhomiam]

Yes, Drew, that must be the photo I was recalling having seen. Not realizing it was a compound photo, I must have imagined the two as being different men. Thank you most kindly.

[justdrew]

Craig B. Hulet can go fuck himself. he's not even worth refuting, nothing but contempt for this piece of shit.

[General Patton]

Ya know, intelligence agencies have had this same problem with trying to understand the context of the situation on the ground and working through implicit assumptions.

Maybe we should let the CIA tell us what to do.

A Tradecraft Primer: Structured Analytic Techniques for Improving Intelligence Analysis
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for- ... -apr09.pdf

Confronting context effects in intelligence analysis: How can mathematics help?
http://www.stanford.edu/~kdevlin/Papers ... soning.pdf

[stickdog99]

What should have been done? What could have happened where you and stickdog and whoever would have been like, "Oh, well, I guess I can see the point of that" or "Yeah, thankfully this thing happened but not that thing" or "Wow, I guess I expected something very different, much worse...but this thing was surprisingly not that worst case, not that bad, maybe even good"?

Regular old police, with the help of vigilant and intrepid citizen detectives (internet and otherwise), should have done their best to identify and catch the perps.

Did the massively extreme show of force actually help anything?

Surely, you were expecting that Tsarnaev was going to be torched in that boat, right? They even said "light it up" on the scanner, and deployed flash bangs. But, the boat wasn't burned. The suspect, another huge shocker to you I imagine, is not even dead. He's alive, and while there may yet be fishy stuff that happens to him, at the moment it looks like he will survive, hopefully to face trial in an American court, hopefully not after he's been tortured. But, you were surprised, weren't you? Or does nothing surprise you? What would that mean, if nothing surprises you? People say it about themselves as a point of pride, to express how experienced and wise to the world they are. But what if nothing surprises you because you process and collate everything that you see into a preconceived notion of what-is-really-happening, improvising as events you expect to happen don't, after the fact forgetting (conveniently, to preserve your confirmation bias) that you did.

I found all of that pleasantly surprising.

Stickdog has probably been eager to find pics of doors being knocked down and children terrified by menacing military types with big guns, but is coming up empty, and is disappointed. Had there been a media blackout, you same people would have been screaming bloody murder, bloody fascism. There wasn't, the events were well-covered (at least the local news here, can't speak for the cable news outlets), and yet here you are muttering unbloody murder, unbloody fascism. Heads it's fascism, tails it's fascism.

While I must admit the overt fascistic fashion show scares me, what really scares me is the deafeningly loud applause for the fascism, here, there and everywhere else.

And I am fucking terrified that the sight of the paramilitary units locking down your exceptionalistic "Don't Tread on Me" city's neighborhoods actually comforts you and the vast majority your fellow Bostonians.

What happens when the "terrorism" is "perpetrated" by wholly justified anti-corporate demonstrators? Do y'all applaud when the cavalry marches from door to door to smoke out whoever is hiding Sacco and Vanzetti?

[stickdog99]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/college-friend-of-boston-bombing-suspect-says-they-discussed?s=mobile

"He said Jahar told him something to the effect of 'yeah man, I mean, tragedies can happen anywhere in the world."

That is some...

1. Cold-blooded, deranged shit
2. Evidence that the kid is an improbable kind of patsy

So far, my gut and brain says the former, almost certainly.
(But again, Reddit and 4chan should be inspecting every single rememberer of the Tsarnaevs.)

Not sure we can make much out of a second generation telephone line translation of what this kid said. I mean, the point of his acquaintance was simply that our suspect acted pretty normally, which is what you would expect both if he were innocent or if he were guilty and doing his best to cover it up.

What response would you rather he have?

[FourthBase]

Regular old police, with the help of vigilant and intrepid citizen detectives (internet and otherwise), should have done their best to identify and catch the perps.

Did the massively extreme show of force actually help anything?

...

While I must admit the overt fascistic fashion show scares me, what really scares me is the deafeningly loud applause for the fascism, here, there and everywhere else.

And I am fucking terrified that the sight of the paramilitary units locking down your exceptionalistic "Don't Tread on Me" city's neighborhoods actually comforts you and the vast majority your fellow Bostonians.

What happens when the "terrorism" is "perpetrated" by wholly justified anti-corporate demonstrators? Do y'all applaud when the stormtroopers march from door to door to smoke out whoever is hiding Sacco and Vanzetti?

Applause for...[heads, fascism; tails, fascism]

So, regular old police, like...what? Guys with twirling a baton and with a revolver holstered?
You've read what these two are supposed to have been doing, right? The arsenal they had?

What happens when the worst case scenario you fantasize about happens?
The scenario that did not happen? I don't know. I doubt it'd be what you hopelessly dread.

I get the whole "But what about the next step?" thing, I do. Really.
But you're worrying about, like, 10 steps from now.
How about: One step at a time. One thing at a time.
How about: Maybe that next step won't happen.

One thing I would like to point out here, for you to ponder. Let's say a mass movement for independent, uncompromised inquiry emerges here, spreads elsewhere, results ultimately in the arrests of a whole assortment of shady, evil bastards. From supremacist militias, to terrorist cells, to corporate immiserators, to corrupt politicians, etc. Who do you think will be applying the handcuffs? Not you, or me, internet denizen. It would be cops. Who would be assaulting the compounds and apartments of seriously-deranged terroristic death cults? Not just cops, Officer Friendlys. It would be paramilitary SWAT teams. If that were to occur, after the guilty sons of bitches were locked into paddywagons and whatnot, once the stream of such cops and agents -- the good ones -- started to roll back toward headquarters to file their after-action reports...Do you clap? If so, how hard? Do you sing the national anthem? How loud? Or, do you sulk, because...because your worst fears didn't come true? Because a good outcome isn't as viscerally entertaining, is too schmaltzy? Because, well, what's the next step? What's the twentieth next step? If you were handed a gift horse, a real one, flawed but real, living, breathing...would you refuse to believe it? Would you kill it in order to cut it open just in case there were Greeks hiding in its intestines? I would sure hope not, for your sake. But also, for our sake, right now: Please do not prematurely shoot to death what might just be a gift horse. Thank you.

[FourthBase]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/college-friend-of-boston-bombing-suspect-says-they-discussed?s=mobile

"He said Jahar told him something to the effect of 'yeah man, I mean, tragedies can happen anywhere in the world."

That is some...

1. Cold-blooded, deranged shit
2. Evidence that the kid is an improbable kind of patsy

So far, my gut and brain says the former, almost certainly.
(But again, Reddit and 4chan should be inspecting every single rememberer of the Tsarnaevs.)

Not sure we can make much out of a second generation telephone line translation of what this kid said. I mean, the point of his acquaintance was simply that our suspect acted pretty normally, which is what you would expect both if he were innocent or if he were guilty and doing his best to cover it up.

What response would you rather he have?

Right, uh...

If he set the bomb and acted in any way normally, then the former.
If he did not set the bomb and acted normally, then the latter.

[justdrew]

What should have been done? What could have happened where you and stickdog and whoever would have been like, "Oh, well, I guess I can see the point of that" or "Yeah, thankfully this thing happened but not that thing" or "Wow, I guess I expected something very different, much worse...but this thing was surprisingly not that worst case, not that bad, maybe even good"?

Regular old police, with the help of vigilant and intrepid citizen detectives (internet and otherwise), should have done their best to identify and catch the perps.

Did the massively extreme show of force actually help anything?

well, possibly YES. Remember my early worry was that this would develop into a Beslan or Mumbai style attack? Well, this response may have sent a message to any parties able to conduct such, that it will not be successful. Thereby possibly deterring such an attack.

[stickdog99]

OK, this is probably old news to most of you, but am I the only one who would like to hear from the "carjacked" Mercedes SUV owner who handed these guys a wad of cash, heard their confessional that they alone had set off the bombs and killed the MIT cop, and mysteriously had his life spared at the hands of these madmen, only to later finger them to authorities by leaving his cell phone in the car?

And wouldn't this dude's ON-STAR and Lowjack work just as well as his cell phone for car tracking purposes? Or is it even easier for cops today to geo-position cell phones than to use technology specifically designed to locate stolen cars? (yet another scary thought)

[FourthBase]

OK, this is probably old news to most of you, but am I the only one who would like to hear from the "carjacked" Mercedes SUV owner who handed these guys a wad of cash, heard their confessional that they alone had set off the bombs and killed the MIT cop, and mysteriously had his life spared at the hands of these madmen, only to later finger them to authorities by leaving his cell phone in the car?

And wouldn't this dude's ON-STAR and Lowjack work just as well as his cell phone for car tracking purposes? Or is it even easier for cops today to geo-position cell phones than to use technology specifically designed to locate stolen cars? (yet another scary thought)

Yeah, you really should read this entire thread, closely.

It's possibly -- no, probably -- the most important thread ever on this board.
(Exaggerating? Some might say. But then, why is anyone nervous, anxious?)

Good point, though, old news or not.

[stickdog99]

Look, my fear precedence is certainly subject to change, and I can understand why people closer to scene would disagree with me. There are countless times I am ecstatic to see good cops doing their jobs.

But right now, seeing people cheering their neighborhoods' transformation into what looks to me very much like Iraqi military zones scares me more than a couple of lone crazies armed with 9 (give or take a few tossed out the Mercedes window) homemade bombs.

When the Blue Angels dive bomb your home in Boston, do you swell with pride about our awesome Air Force's ability to serve and protect US interests, or do you, like me, find it difficult not to imagine what it would be like to suffer their wrath?

[divideandconquer]

What about what good old Ben Franklin said?

"Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither."

and then there is this:

"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."
- Henry Kissinger in an address to the Bilderberger meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992.

If you suspect that our government had anything to do with 9/11, Oklahoma bombing, Waco, etc., how can you trust these paramilitary troops in tanks "policing" our streets? This is the first time. So, they were on their best behavior. However, the next time, and the next time after that..well, we all know what absolute power does to people.. Not to mention, they will treat some neighborhoods better than others. In other words, if you're, at the very least, white and middle-class, you'll probably see the best side, for now, anyway. Come on. We KNOW that the MSM covers up a hell of a lot more than they reveal. So, if the troops were bashing down doors it's going to take a while to come out. Although, like I said before, I don't think that happened this time around because they've got to SELL this to the American people.

Here's an example taken from Hurricane Andrew that horrified me, and I know I never heard about this from our mainstream media, or even our alternative media. The National Hurricane Bureau had known all along that Hurricane Andrew was going to slam into South Dade, but they didn't have enough room to evacuate everyone so they lied about where the eye of the storm would hit and then sent the military and police out, NOT to help the thousands of injured, but to collect the dead and burn them. Meanwhile, they treated the poor victims terribly.

http://www.bariumblues.com/deadly_silences.htm

"Someone from our group spotted the caravan and ran to get me, knowing that I had been badly injured and that I urgently needed emergency medical help. My twenty-five-year old son and one other adult male survivor, helped escort me to the caravan. We hurried toward the lead car. It stopped moving when we approached the driver's side. The officer sitting behind the wheel rolled down the window. For a few moments he rudely ignored us, at one point giving us an impatient look of disgust.

This is the conversation and course of events that took place.

"Please sir, I need medical help," I begged, barely able to speak.

The officer sitting behind the wheel sighed heavily. He turned his head away from me and gazed out his windshield. The other three men in the car quietly looked at me.

"Sir, please, I need to get to a hospital!..." I begged frantically.

The officer took his time about reaching over to turn off the engine. With another sigh, he slowly opened the door and climbed out. He then proceeded to close the door and stood there with his legs spread astride.

"Lady, do me a favor," he answered. "Find yourself a piece of paper and a pencil. Write down your name and social security number next to the telephone number of your nearest living relative. Tuck the piece of paper in your pocket so tomorrow when I find your body, I'll know who to contact."

"No!... No!" I cried out. "You don't understand. I need to get to a hospital. I've been badly injured."

"No! You're the one who doesn't understand," he hissed back. With that, he reached over to his holster and took out his gun. He grabbed me, forcing me up against the side of the car, and proceeded to put the barrel of the gun against my temple. I heard the hammer cock.

From the position he had pushed me into, I could see directly into the car. The man sitting in the front passenger seat looked away from me immediately, glancing down at the floor. The two passengers in the back seat turned their heads quickly, staring out the window on the opposite side of the car.

My son and the other survivor watched as the officer had pulled back the hammer on the gun. So shocked out of their minds by what they were witnessing, neither one could move!

"You don't belong here!" the officer growled, pressing the barrel into the side of my head. "Now you get the hell outta here before I blow away your ass!" He shoved my face into the car window and then released me.
Someone grabbed me from behind and whirled me around so fast, I didn't have time to think! Before I knew it, I was being thrown over their shoulder. They took off running as fast as they could! I caught a brief glimpse of my son running next to me. With one gigantic leap, he and the survivor who carried me, dove behind a pile of debris! All three of us crashed on top of each other in one tangled up heap.

"I'll shoot your damn asses!" the officer's voice rang out.

[Freitag]

When the Blue Angels dive bomb your home in Boston, do you swell with pride about our awesome Air Force's ability to serve and protect US interests, or do you, like me, find it difficult not to imagine what it would be like to suffer their wrath?

Off topic but I think that sums up the whole gun control debate also. When a person hears the word "gun", do they picture themselves holding it, or having it pointed at them? I bet that little test would prove accurate in predicting someone's opinion about gun control.