Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

[MacCruiskeen]

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev will never be seen by anyone again, least of all in a court of law*. And there is no good reason to accept without proof Mr. Source's assertions that the boy is actually in FBI custody, capable of communicating in any way, or even still alive.

*Pastel portraits may, of course, "emerge".

What would you accept as proof, in the event that he did appear in a court of law?

Not a pastel portrait, that's for sure. Not Mister Source's word, either. (Would you?)

I would want to know that the prisoner referred to as "Dzhokhar Tsarnaev" (currently literally speechless, if we're to believe any of this farrago at all) has been positively identified beyond doubt by his next of kin, i.e. by his parents and sister, who are also deeply sceptical about this entire case, and for very good and rational reasons. I would accept that as proof that the imprisoned bedbound Trappist is at least who we're told he is (by Mister Source). And of course this would tell us precisely nothing about his guilt or innocence.

But he hasn't even identified himself yet, not even with a nod (or a wink, or via morse code or semaphore), nor was he even asked to do so by the belatedly-visiting heroic Democratic-nominated judge. Which is more than a little fucking odd (no?), when you consider that all the lawyers present at his bedside were asked to identify themselves, on the record, and did so, formally, including the judge herself. Everybody just presumes that this silent, badly-wounded (bandaged?) patient is in fact Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, as opposed to (say) Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, or Boris Karloff, or a state-of-the-art robot. Or Ramzi Binalshib.


Ramzi bin al-Shibh, Positively Identified.


Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the ̶V̶o̶i̶c̶e̶ Face of Utter Evil.

By the way, remember that his mother and his aunt have both said that the "naked prisoner" taken alive was in fact Tamerlan, their son and nephew. I see no reason whatsoever to dismiss that out of hand. Also, the last I heard was that the mutilated corpse identified by Mr. Source as the former Tamerlan had not yet been positively identified by any next-of-kin or claimed by anyone for burial.

In any case, no person positively identifiable by mere plebs as Dzhokhar Tsarnaev will ever appear in a court of law.

[stillrobertpaulsen]

Just a thought:

What kind of Asian-looking dude could maybe be mistaken at first as white?
Hmmm. Perhaps...an Asian-looking dude from central Asia, like the roommates?

You asked this question earlier on this thread and I mistakenly glossed over it mentally. You ask again and I had one of those moments of revelation: Xinjiang! Just a hunch, I've no idea if "Danny" has a Xinjiang accent or what that sounds like. But I google searched for Xinjiang people and here's some images:





Just some examples of the Uyghur people, you are absolutely right they could be mistaken as white. But the reason I had my "Holy shit!" moment over the possibility "Danny" might be of Uyghur descent? Sibel Edmonds has taken note of Xinjiang, also known as Turkestan, as connected to the Gladio B network through Yusuf Turani.

That leader was Fethullah Gulen. An Islamic preacher who has been called "moderate", his message is similar to other Turkish preachers in calling for bringing Islamic brothers together, but is unique in that it is not nationalistic, but inclusive of other Central Asian nations. But his movement was not particularly well liked by the Turkish military, so after receiving threats from them, he came to Washington, D.C. He now heads a $20 billion organization through which 350 mosques and madrassahs have opened! But there's a catch if you want to join: you must learn English. And all "English teachers" are given diplomatic passports! Edmonds also lists another big player in the Gladio B network, Yusuf Turani. Turani was actually given US citizenship in 1997 and called the President of Turkestan in absentia. Again, Turkestan is an area of West China known as the Xinjiang province.

Perhaps this explains why "Danny" told the Tsarnaevs, "“Chinese are very friendly to Muslims!"

[8bitagent]

I am apparently expected to ignore the fact that -- according to the reviews -- a carjacked native speaker of Chinese is instructed by the EVIL RUTHLESS native Chechen carjacker, at gunpoint, to conduct a phone conversation in English with a native speaker of Chinese while that Chechen drops essential information in English about an impending terror plot in New York during a conversation in Russian with his own Chechen brother. The whole damn thing is a junk movie. Hence "Joker". Hence "Chinese 'Danny'".

Again: I didn't script this crap, nor did I inflict it on the planet. Nor am I one of the many who are confusing this movie with something more plausible, such as (say) reality, or maybe The Hobbit.

But to set your mind at rest: I meant absolutely no disrespect to the Chinese people per se, the Chechen people per se, the Russian people per se, the English people per se, nor even to the fine and unimpeachable Irish boyos of the Boston police force and the FBI, per se. May the road rise with them all, to be sure.

Jahar's friends look Chinese. I know they're Kazahki. But what stood out is Tamerlan allegedly uses an English or Russian to Chinese translation app. That's one detail that struck me as odd. If I was in a hurry and running from cops in a carjacked vehicle, I wouldnt know where to begin.

About Jahar's pals

Stephen Troio, who said he lived on the same dorm floor as the two men during his freshman year in 2011, said that they showed “lack of emotion” and “lack of personality” and that nothing stood out about them but the BMW. “They did have a lot of money,” Troio told NBC News. “He wrecked like three Beamers and then bought another one.”

Usually Eastern European immigrants aren't flushed with cash. Tho it is an oil rich state, thanks to Slick Willy Clinton and his corrupt pals. But only for a select few

[MacCruiskeen]

what stood out is Tamerlan allegedly uses an English or Russian to Chinese translation app. That's one detail that struck me as odd. If I was in a hurry and running from cops in a carjacked vehicle, I wouldnt know where to begin.

Thanks, I had forgotten that delightful detail. I guess the scriptwriters were burning the midnight oil (and hitting the bottle). No doubt they'll bin that plot element discreetly before they submit their final draft.



The slippery are indeed very crafty, except perhaps when they're drunk.

[8bitagent]

Perhaps this explains why "Danny" told the Tsarnaevs, "“Chinese are very friendly to Muslims!"

The Uighur thing immediately popped to mind when I read about that comment. The people you posted above definitely look like a mix between Eastern European and Chinese.
Now, again noone here gives a toss about race. It's just, the convenient store guy was convinced "Danny" was white(though he would be correct in calling the Tsarnevs Caucasian in the most literal sense)
and I cant see how someone could mistake a full blooded Chinese man as white(Im half Korean and half White/Euro mut and noones ever mistakenly me as white)

However, the accent to me sounded Chinese in the interview, despite the voice modulation being used.

What kind of Asian-looking dude could maybe be mistaken at first as white?
Hmmm. Perhaps...an Asian-looking dude from central Asia, like the roommates?

I can kind of see that.

[Canadian_watcher]

I'm with Mac - the entire thing is over the top ridiculous.
I have no proof - obviously. That's the whole raison d'etre of these ops being the way they are - apparently bungled, completely messy - fraught - they can not be proven or disproved in a fractured world even if someone from the inside were to come right out and say it on the six o'clock news. It is so easy to assassinate a character and to buy off officials.

I wonder why, in the only/best footage we have from right at the moment of the bombings, that this supposedly seasoned cameraman (we know that he is seasoned from his cell phone convo on the unedited version of the video) this supposed expert camera man manages NOT to film the actual scene.. he pans along the fenceline, he spends a great deal of time filming the windows of the buildings around the blast site (perhaps to capture whether or not anyone else was filming) he spends a LOT of time filming the ground and doesn't allow the camera to come into focus very often at all. But wait.. all of a sudden he does allow an elongated focus - on a piece of debris.. it looks like it might be a backpack that has been shredded, it's hard to tell. I am not sure, but it doesn't look like the blown up backpack I've seen over and over again and I don't think that shot made it in to the final cut.

And in that video it is a full 12 minutes before we hear a siren.

In that video we do not hear anyone scream.

In that video we don't see emergency vehicles moving closer to the scene of the blasts.

In that video the cameraman never moves closer to the scene of the second blast - it happens, and he catches it on camera, but he doesn't go down there - ever.

The people running/jogging between the medical tent (I guess that's what that is, way off in the distance) and the scene don't speak, they don't have anything with them.

They put a guy whose two legs were just blown clean off in a WHEELCHAIR? There are gurneys but they don't use one?

No one is crying.

The guy filming paces back and forth along a length of road where there's NO action except for the people jogging back and forth from the scene - he doesn't move towards the medical tent. He doesn't ever stop to focus on a single thing, not even the guy with no legs. He could run along beside the wheelchair, but he doesn't. No other news teams are around?

[barracuda]

And in that video it is a full 12 minutes before we hear a siren.

Do you mean this video?



Because I hear screaming, and I hear sirens within seconds of the blast. But it's not 12 minutes long, so maybe you mean another. Link?

[Jerky]

I didn't want to see that video again any time soon, but I'm glad I did, because it has reminded me that - regardless of everything else we discuss and obsess over here - the people of Boston, most (MOST!) of whom ran in the direction of the bombs to help, even tho there had been TWO and could very well have been more, are fucking AWESOME.

[compared2what?]

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev will never be seen by anyone again, least of all in a court of law*. And there is no good reason to accept without proof Mr. Source's assertions that the boy is actually in FBI custody, capable of communicating in any way, or even still alive.

*Pastel portraits may, of course, "emerge".

What would you accept as proof, in the event that he did appear in a court of law?

Not a pastel portrait, that's for sure. Not Mister Source's word, either. (Would you?)

No, by itself, that's not worth anything.

But it seems possible enough to me that he's in prison and that the people who are in contact with him (possibly including family, for all I know) aren't talking about it publicly because they have no reason to expect a fair and friendly reception that I can't rule it out that he is.

I guess I assume that if his never been seen or heard from again had been necessary, they would have gone Gitmo or extra-judicial. Because they do have that option. And you know how people are. They like to use their stuff and dislike unnecessary effort, as a general rule.

[Joe Hillshoist]

I didn't want to see that video again any time soon, but I'm glad I did, because it has reminded me that - regardless of everything else we discuss and obsess over here - the people of Boston, most (MOST!) of whom ran in the direction of the bombs to help, even tho there had been TWO and could very well have been more, are fucking AWESOME.

Most people are fucking awesome tho, given the chance.

[Hunter]

His defense counsel is the same one who represented Lougner and from what I gather she isnt the type who is going to fight to make the state meet its burden of proof, she is someone who is basiclly brought in to try and get the death penalty off the table as opposed to really trying to fight to clear her client or force the prosecution to bring their A game. That is pretty much all she does is work to get DP off the table and it is assumed her clients have no chance of being acquitted. She isnt that kind of defense attorney that would fight like Jose Baez for example.

[Hunter]

I would not personally go as far as saying she is in the bag but she is more about working deals to get DP out of play than she is about working towards an acquittal or making the state work hard for his conviction, with her at the defense table the chances of a deal and no trial, IMO, are 90%.


If this case wee going to trial she wouldnt be involved, she is not known as a trial lawyer she is a DP negotiator, an expert at it, the best, a fine lawyer and lady she is, but you know when she gets involved there is very very little chance the case goes to trial. None of her high profile cases, from Loughner to Unabomber Ted, went to trial, in fact Unabomber was on its way to trial then she got involved and it ended up a plea deal with no DP.

So anyone looking forward to a trial here dont get your hopes up as long as she in involved, if we see a change of counsel, that is why, it will be because the kid refused to deal and they will need to bring in an actual defense attorney.

[justdrew]

I would not personally go as far as saying she is in the bag but she is more about working deals to get DP out of play than she is about working towards an acquittal or making the state work hard for his conviction, with her at the defense table the chances of a deal and no trial, IMO, are 90%.


If this case wee going to trial she wouldnt be involved, she is not known as a trial lawyer she is a DP negotiator, an expert at it, the best, a fine lawyer and lady she is, but you know when she gets involved there is very very little chance the case goes to trial.

well, they supposedly have video of them dropping off the bombs, probably much more evidence has since been secured. There's seems little doubt they took the bombs and deposited them. The only conceivable out is that someone tricked them into it (and then they freaked out a few nights later when their pictures hit the tv, though they should have been freaked out much sooner had it been a trick, so that's probably out of the question too)

[Hunter]

Def Drew, they do seem to have plenty enough for a conviction and that is very likely she was tapped for the job because like I said, she is usually involved when there is no chance of getting off and the only question that remains is whether the DP will apply or not and she is very good, very very good at getting DP off the table.

[compared2what?]

I wonder why, in the only/best footage we have from right at the moment of the bombings, that this supposedly seasoned cameraman (we know that he is seasoned from his cell phone convo on the unedited version of the video) this supposed expert camera man manages NOT to film the actual scene.. he pans along the fenceline, he spends a great deal of time filming the windows of the buildings around the blast site (perhaps to capture whether or not anyone else was filming) he spends a LOT of time filming the ground and doesn't allow the camera to come into focus very often at all. But wait.. all of a sudden he does allow an elongated focus - on a piece of debris.. it looks like it might be a backpack that has been shredded, it's hard to tell. I am not sure, but it doesn't look like the blown up backpack I've seen over and over again and I don't think that shot made it in to the final cut.

I haven't seen anything that long, either. But fwiw, when it comes to covering completely unexpected chaotic events in real time, I don't know that there's really any such thing as "seasoned." Because no matter how much experience people have, if all they know about what's going down is that explosions have killed and maimed people, that's not going to be enough for them to know where they should be looking or for what or how to recognize it. There's no obvious visual focus apart from the explosions, which were brief, and the killed and maimed people, most of whom would just have made the footage too graphic to air.

I mean, what would really stand out as a must-shoot in an area that size under circumstances that were that disorganized?

No plot, no character, no suspenseful will-it-or-won't-it-type narrative tension. I don't see how there would be a better professional option than just looking around for some ambient two-to-three-second shots.***

____________

ON EDIT: Which is mostly what a seasoned television news cameraman does anyway.