Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

[KeenInsight]

I think the brothers did it on their own volition. There is something to be said for personal responsibility. Doesnt mean there wasnt "involvement" of some sort, doesnt mean they werent played- but they wanted to play, if so. I also think that there will be a trial- or at least court proceedings, but so what, even that doesnt mean much.

I think that a totally valid way of looking at it and of saying so both, although I'm not sure I completely agree. But even if I completely disagreed, I can't see what harm you'd be doing by expressing that view in those terms. So who cares? I sure can't rule it out.

Cheers, Burnt Hill.

And people thought Oswald did it. Guess what, he was a Military Intelligence Operative of the "Abort Team." As he said, in his own honest words, "I'm a patsy." The fall guy.

Apparently people have forgotten how the government makes patsies out of people. CI's, Operational Operatives, Brainwashing, Entrapment. The works. And with today's technology and complete compartmentalization, combined with total media propaganda, its like fucking child's play to them. If the two guys did the deed, ,yeah, and? Then it clearly could have been stopped since it was known to occur in advance. "THEY" let Americans die to instill fear in the populace, and remind everyone that the perpetual War on Terror is everywhere, anytime, any place.

Who benefits from the Boston Bombing? Certainly not Americans. Certainly not Muslims. And certainly not people being bombed from a drone. 1.5 Million dead Iraqies certainly didn't benefit from 9/11. U.S. soldiers used as pawns in a global chess game, brain washed into killing, coming home broken and committing suicide certainly don't benefit. Syrians dying from U.S. funded terrorist groups certainly don't benefit. I'm leaving out a lot here, but I think the point is easily seen.

Then the only question left is, who stands to gain from this madness? Tyrants, Kings, and Fascists. Its like being handed the One Ring of Sauron and not wanting to let go of it.

[seemslikeadream]

only a pawn in their game



A bullet from the back of a bush took Medgar Evers’ blood
A finger fired the trigger to his name
A handle hid out in the dark
A hand set the spark
Two eyes took the aim
Behind a man’s brain
But he can’t be blamed
He’s only a pawn in their game

A South politician preaches to the poor white man
“You got more than the blacks, don’t complain.
You’re better than them, you been born with white skin,” they explain.
And the Negro’s name
Is used it is plain
For the politician’s gain
As he rises to fame
And the poor white remains
On the caboose of the train
But it ain’t him to blame
He’s only a pawn in their game

The deputy sheriffs, the soldiers, the governors get paid
And the marshals and cops get the same
But the poor white man’s used in the hands of them all like a tool
He’s taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
’Bout the shape that he’s in
But it ain’t him to blame
He’s only a pawn in their game

From the poverty shacks, he looks from the cracks to the tracks
And the hoofbeats pound in his brain
And he’s taught how to walk in a pack
Shoot in the back
With his fist in a clinch
To hang and to lynch
To hide ’neath the hood
To kill with no pain
Like a dog on a chain
He ain’t got no name
But it ain’t him to blame
He’s only a pawn in their game.

Today, Medgar Evers was buried from the bullet he caught
They lowered him down as a king
But when the shadowy sun sets on the one
That fired the gun
He’ll see by his grave
On the stone that remains
Carved next to his name
His epitaph plain:
Only a pawn in their game

[Burnt Hill]

And people thought Oswald did it. Guess what, he was a Military Intelligence Operative of the "Abort Team." As he said, in his own honest words, "I'm a patsy." The fall guy.

Apparently people have forgotten how the government makes patsies out of people. CI's, Operational Operatives, Brainwashing, Entrapment. The works. And with today's technology and complete compartmentalization, combined with total media propaganda, its like fucking child's play to them. If the two guys did the deed, ,yeah, and? Then it clearly could have been stopped since it was known to occur in advance. "THEY" let Americans die to instill fear in the populace, and remind everyone that the perpetual War on Terror is everywhere, anytime, any place.

Who benefits from the Boston Bombing? Certainly not Americans. Certainly not Muslims. And certainly not people being bombed from a drone. 1.5 Million dead Iraqies certainly didn't benefit from 9/11. U.S. soldiers used as pawns in a global chess game, brain washed into killing, coming home broken and committing suicide certainly don't benefit. Syrians dying from U.S. funded terrorist groups certainly don't benefit.

Then the only question left is, who stands to gain from this madness? Tyrants, Kings, and Fascists.

My opinion did not rule out deep state involvement.
I am not sure comparison to Oswald is valid.
As far as instilling fear in the populace, I see a populace moved by bravery and heroism. Think of everyone who helped others when the threat of another bomb was very real. Marathons run the next week.
"Was known to occur in advance"?
Who stands to gain is certainly not the only question left, but a very good one anyway.
Wont argue with your list of who didnt gain, though that list is short.
My opinion that the brothers acted of their own volition does not deny the unknown, it simply doesnt include it.

[Hammer of Los]

...

Then the only question left is, who stands to gain from this madness? Tyrants, Kings, and Fascists. Its like being handed the One Ring of Sauron and not wanting to let go of it.

If you had the ring, would you use it?

That's rhetorical, by the way.

...

[compared2what?]

Then the only question left is, who stands to gain from this madness? Tyrants, Kings, and Fascists.

Funny you should ask. And answer. Because you know who benefits from the aggressove insistence that there's only one permissible view of political history to which any right-thinking and decent person can subscribe?

And who also benefits from treating all who mildly deviate from any part of it as if they'd mounted a hostile assault on all of it that must be suppressed for the greater good in order to keep the boundless forces of terror from corrupting the whole show?


Exact same people

In free societies where that kind of attitude has newly taken hold of the culture, it's almost amounted to an announcement that fascism is imminent, historically speaking. Although also very broadly speaking, I admit. But still. Might be worth keeping an eye out for.

__________

ON EDIT: Stupid formatting.

[Project Willow]

My opinion that the brothers acted of their own volition does not deny the unknown, it simply doesnt include it.

When you say "own volition" that does rule out some very possible unknowns, mainly, mind control.

............
Thoughts in general on that score, not necessarily directed to you, BH.

Right now attorney William Pepper is attempting to obtain a new trial for Sirhan Sirhan. Part of his argument is that Sirhan was hypnotized and trained to play the patsy role. He's got evidence for it. RFK was assassinated nearly 46 years ago. Forty six years. That's a hell of a long time to perfect something that was already working pretty well way back then.

This case, unlike other mass-violent acts of late, where we've been treated to some of the most outlandish and bizarre conspiracy theories, seems to have inspired more circumscribed dialogue, despite the fact it actually has features that could be markers of state involvement. It's as if the pendulum had to swing the other way regardless of details, or perhaps the visage that Keeninsight alludes to is far more terrifying than two radicalized kids.

The problem is, as ever, we've no way to know, maybe can never, or perhaps some who pay attention in future may find evidence. The open question adds to the fear, and many people will attempt to relieve that kind of fear with certainty, one way or another.

These are general impressions, please tell me if I'm being unfair.

[Jerky]

A "scavenger", eh? Hm... very interesting.

My real name is Mark Thibodeau, just FYI. Care to share yours?

Sincerely,
Mark "Jerky" Thibodeau

why would i want a scavenger calling him'/herself jerky in my real life ?

I now seriously regret I asked. Some weird ass fucking back-history that I missed out on, obviously.

Jerky

[justdrew]

This country is awash in guns and explosives and they are in the hands of some of the most mentally disturbed and morally bankrupt people we can imagine and most of them are fellow citizens, "natural born" Americans, and white people. But every one of these lunatics gets read his rights if he is arrested. And none of them are tortured.

U.S. President Barack Obama gives the commencement address to the graduating class of The Ohio State University at Ohio Stadium on May 5, 2013 in Columbus, Ohio.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Unfortunately, you've grown up hearing voices that incessantly warn of government as nothing more than some separate, sinister entity that's at the root of all our problems. Some of these same voices also do their best to gum up the works. They'll warn that tyranny always lurking just around the corner. You should reject these voices. Because what they suggest is that our brave, and creative, and unique experiment in self-rule is somehow just a sham with which we can't be trusted.

We have never been a people who place all our faith in government to solve our problems. We shouldn't want to. But we don't think the government is the source of all our problems, either. Because we understand that this democracy is ours. And as citizens, we understand that it's not about what America can do for us, it's about what can be done by us, together, through the hard and frustrating but absolutely necessary work of self-government. And class of 2013, you have to be involved in that process.

In modern American history (ie post-war) every evil act of foreign or domestic aggression has been committed at the insistence of the Usual Suspects. Paranoid, wild-eyed anti-communists, supposedly fundamentalist christian, authoritarian, "free market" (free to be controlled by them that is) lunatics. Their politics seduced enough of the population to get republicans elected. End that. End war.

[Burnt Hill]

My opinion that the brothers acted of their own volition does not deny the unknown, it simply doesnt include it.

When you say "own volition" that does rule out some very possible unknowns, mainly, mind control.

............
Thoughts in general on that score, not necessarily directed to you, BH.

Right now attorney William Pepper is attempting to obtain a new trial for Sirhan Sirhan. Part of his argument is that Sirhan was hypnotized and trained to play the patsy role. He's got evidence for it. RFK was assassinated nearly 46 years ago. Forty six years. That's a hell of a long time to perfect something that was already working pretty well way back then.

This case, unlike other mass-violent acts of late, where we've been treated to some of the most outlandish and bizarre conspiracy theories, seems to have inspired more circumscribed dialogue, despite the fact it actually has features that could be markers of state involvement. It's as if the pendulum had to swing the other way regardless of details, or perhaps the visage that Keeninsight alludes to is far more terrifying than two radicalized kids.

The problem is, as ever, we've no way to know, maybe can never, or perhaps some who pay attention in future may find evidence. The open question adds to the fear, and many people will attempt to relieve that kind of fear with certainty, one way or another.

These are general impressions, please tell me if I'm being unfair.

Yes I figured I would be called out on that quote, thought it would be taken out of context, but you didnt, thank you.
Certainly mind control is a possibility, it just doesnt look that way to me (we will see, maybe? 46 years, damn). Yes the obvious "state" involvement is there. FBI has admitting knowing of this guy, right? How many other pre/radical potential terrorists are they aware of? Thousand perhaps? And how often do they admit knowledge that potentially implicates them, rather than glorifies?
Says he fell off the radar, seems plausible considering the statements of everyone that knew the brothers.
Considering the way the whole thing played out, the post bombing behaviors, the chase, the death and capture, if it was a movie it would seem like a stupid, amateurish plot, which is in part why I think it was a couple of stupid amateurish Brothers that did this
I think "state" involvement comes on strong in the chase, an opportunity to play a heavy hand fell in to their laps.
Even so, I dont see a city, or a nation terrified.
And as I feel comparison to Oswald unfair, I feel the same with Sirhan. This was not a President murdered here, on a level of crime, this one seems minor, no offense to those who it was obviously major. We had a worse crime with a much worse death toll in Texas the same week, which we are largely ignoring.
And if you are asking me, your/any impressions are fair, food for thought, no personal attacks, and bark up every tree as 4th Base says, its all good!
By the way Project Willow, have you watched Derren Browns "The Assassin"?

[Project Willow]

By the way Project Willow, have you watched Derren Browns "The Assassin"?

Yes, I saw it, thought it was well done. Unfortunately, people can dismiss it as rigged entertainment. The myth that you can't hypnotize anyone to act against their core beliefs is still perpetuated as truth.

..............

This case, unlike other mass-violent acts of late, where we've been treated to some of the most outlandish and bizarre conspiracy theories, seems to have inspired more circumscribed dialogue

Forgot the crisis actors thread.

[MacCruiskeen]

Then the only question left is, who stands to gain from this madness? Tyrants, Kings, and Fascists.

Funny you should ask. And answer. Because you know who benefits from the aggressove insistence that there's only one permissible view of political history to which any right-thinking and decent person can subscribe?

And who also benefits from treating all who mildly deviate from any part of it as if they'd mounted a hostile assault on all of it that must be suppressed for the greater good in order to keep the boundless forces of terror from corrupting the whole show?

Were you referring to anyone in particular here? I think we should be told, as opposed to insinuated-at.

[MacCruiskeen]

I think the brothers did it on their own volition. There is something to be said for personal responsibility. Doesnt mean there wasnt "involvement" of some sort, doesnt mean they werent played- but they wanted to play, if so. I also think that there will be a trial- or at least court proceedings, but so what, even that doesnt mean much.

I think that a totally valid way of looking at it and of saying so both, although I'm not sure I completely agree. But even if I completely disagreed, I can't see what harm you'd be doing by expressing that view in those terms. So who cares? I sure can't rule it out.

"Cheers, Burnt Hill.

Well, that's very liberal of you, c2w. Most praiseworthy, and most prudent. For we are all fools, as you so wisely and prudently intoned mid-screed upthread, and everything anyone says is therefore always equally foolish (right?), and yet somehow -- through the miracle of God's goodness or something -- also "totally valid" (right?).

Let's have a look at this particular example of Total Validity:

I think the brothers did it on their own volition

.

Information content: That's what Burnt Hill thinks. Why Burnt Hill thinks that, what evidence leads Burnt Hill to think that, why anyone else should believe that Burnt Hill's thought is worth sharing, or is not worth sharing, or is even perhaps true .. well, presumably Burnt Hill will explain that to us in the argument that follows, which may or may not in fact be "totally valid" (but how could it not be, when everything is? Life is so damned puzzling sometimes.). Anyway. His argument begins here:

There is something to be said for personal responsibility.

Fine thing, p.r. But what's to be said for it here? Burnt Hill doesn't say. It's also hard to say why the sentence is even in there, because it appears to have wandered in from another essay, about pensions or childcare or something. But if I've got his drift right, he means either that it would be personally irresponsible of the brothers not to have done it, or that it would be personally irresponsible of us not to presume that they had some part in it, or something. ("Totally valid"? YOU decide. Hey, it's a free country!) It's hard to see what else it could mean.

Doesnt mean there wasnt "involvement" of some sort, doesnt mean they werent played- but they wanted to play, if so.

Does Burnt Hill know this? No, he just thinks it. But why he thinks it, Burnt Hill does not condescend to say. After all, it's not his own life, or his own son's life, he's musing over here. It's just some schmuck who's like, totally suspicious, because he's like, from Chechnya and a Muslim and stuff. He musta had something to do with it! [Note to self: Don't bother Burnt Hill with that elitist evidence shit, Burnt Hill's view is totally valid, same as everyone else's, you fascist!]

To sum up: Burnt Hill thinks the brothers are guilty until proven innocent. This places him safely in the liberal majority these days, along with c2w and most people on this formerly anti-fascist board, or else fascism has been re-defined to mean an elitist obsession with logic, evidence, due process, burden of proof, etc. (see above).

I also think that there will be a trial- or at least court proceedings,

That's an interesting distinction, and a very necessary one in the USA these days. I too think that a pastel drawing will eventually appear in the NYT. This will be called "the trial of Dzhokhar Tsernaev". No one will object. This passive acquiesence too will be "totally valid", because hey, what am I, like, a fascist or something? [Note to self: Dude, chill.]

but so what, even that doesnt mean much.

This is true.

[slimmouse]

If there was ever any insistence on evidence that Boston isnt what it seems, (based upon the standard MO that any regular visitor to this board would immediately recognise,) I think that it has been duly satisfied within this thread.

Or is the coincidence theorist alive and well around here?

I appreciate the rigour, but fuck me guys, the intuition stinks.

I mean is it even close ?

[Burnt Hill]

but so what, even that doesnt mean much.

This is true.

He likes me! He really likes me!

[seemslikeadream]

If there was ever any insistence on evidence that Boston isnt what it seems, (based upon the standard MO that any regular visitor to this board would immediately recognise,) I think that it has been duly satisfied within this thread.

Or is the coincidence theorist alive and well around here?

I appreciate the rigour, but fuck me guys, the intuition stinks.

I mean is it even close ?

there is another thread about this

The Chechens' American friends Chechens & 9/11