Hancock on drugs, entities, DNA

[robertdreed]

This was perhaps the most famous "LSD suicide" of the 1960s era, the defenestration of Art Linkletter's daughter, Diane Linkletter- but did you ever hear (as Paul Harvey might say ) "the rest of the story"? <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/linkletter.asp">www.snopes.com/horrors/dr...letter.asp</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[banned]

" Again, I'm not suggesting MDMA or any other psychedelic is right for everyone -- just that more and more evidence is emerging that certain psychedelics can help some people. And that is encouraging."<br><br>and I could respond, <br><br>"Again, I'm not suggesting MDMA or any other psychedelic is wrong for everyone -- just that there is ample evidence to suggest that certain psychedelics can destroy some people's lives. And that is discouraging."<br><br>Tomato, tomahto. And I still haven't heard anything from any of you that's changed my view of people who take drugs, or the drug taking experience. I've heard all the arguments before over the last *35 years* and continue to have zero interest in the drug experience myself and feel that people who take them have serious characterological weaknesses they are bound and determined not to face; it's not truth and reality they are seeking from the drug but the escape therefrom. <br><br>That's my last word. <p></p><i></i>

[Trifecta]

"serious characterological weaknesses"<br><br>True, if you were abused for whatever reason MK, occult whatever, it could be deemed as a weakness, and yet why do these individuals have to suffer these consquences and why should they not have a choice to find the answers. Hey, perhaps they should try therapy or the psychological schools...umm, oh yeah back into the belly of the beast.<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START >D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/grin.gif ALT=" >D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br> "they are bound and determined not to face; it's not truth and reality they are seeking from the drug but the escape therefrom."<br><br>Perhaps you may consider the answers they find, perhaps you will discover their latent psychic ability that returns (reason for the abuses in the first place perhaps) perhaps it enables them to be whole again.<br><br>I like you banned, your opinion is valued by me, your humour is quite excellent and I enjoy your posts. But realise this, people on this thread are leaving some deep routed and valuable infomation about there personal journeys and how they have been helped to overcome them, through something the medical/scientific professions in most part say has no value...I wonder why that is.<br><br>I could write for weeks on this subject, I could post my research findings, and yet there is much more important work out there and the moment, this thread is useful, but you are killing it through you abuse of people commenting on from their hearts and minds ....that's not nice and as you say you have no personal experience of it.<br><br>"That's my last word."<br><br>Good. <p></p><i></i>

[Pants Elk]

Project Willow: Wouldn't it be ironic if a psychedelic/empathogenic drug turned out to be an appropriate medicine to heal the damage inflicted by MKULTRA and other trauma-based programming? A tool of the torturer's arsenal turned into a tool against him?<br><br>That is pretty much the story of LSD, isn't it? As I remember from my reading, the initial production of LSD was a CIA-funded and organised project, because they thought they saw truth-drug, control, and weapon potential in it. It became a "tool of the conterculture/revolution" (whatever) when its uncontrollability (and spirituality) made it less interesting to the CIA.<br><br>Something else. Obvious, maybe, but a point that needs making. I've read in this thread that some users of LSD saw some pretty colours, got a nice party high from LSD. Someone I know takes it regularly as a recreational drug. This is very clearly <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>not</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> the same drug I took thirty years ago. Just as wine varies in quality from bottle to bottle, vintage to vintage, so LSD is a label for countless different variations on a theme.<br><br>And a note to banned; you're never going to read anything that will convince you that the psychedelic experience can be valuable, life-changing, and spiritual. Words (therefore argument) are not capable of describing the experience. Language is totally inadequate to the task of conveying its nature. This is why I, and others, tend to use phrases like "seeing God", because, stupid and clichéd and "boring" as they are, they're as close as you can get. And the experience is not possible without the chemical alteration that LSD lends you. You can't think yourself into the state, paint or write yourself into it. You may be able to meditate yourself into some analogous state of mind, but the LSD experience is site-specific. One of the reasons I found it so valuable was the very act of letting go of all the mental processes and habits we cling to (out of necessity) in our daily lives. It's no lover of personality, and I was glad to be rid of mine - or at least see it for what it is - for a while. You seem to have a very strong personality, and even if you weren't set against trying LSD, I'd strongly advise you not to. It's not for everyone (a little like macramé in that respect - although your own particular "chemically altered spiderweb" would not be without interest, I'm sure.)<br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=pantselk>Pants Elk</A> at: 12/16/05 4:54 am<br></i>

[GDN01]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>feel that people who take them have serious characterological weaknesses they are bound and determined not to face; it's not truth and reality they are seeking from the drug but the escape therefrom.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>How dare you assume to know why it is I, and others make the choices we make. <br><br>Rarely do I get angry reading a thread on this board but you have continued to disparage everyone who has tried to answer your questions. Fuck you.<br><br>You wanted a story about a breakthough a drug has provided and I shared my personal life story - and you have responded the way that others responded to the story of your friend. Hypocrite.<br><br>You haven't lived my life. How dare you decide I'm of weak character. Have I struggled to find happiness? You bet your ass I have. But if I were weak of character I'd be hanging from a rafter somewhere, or in a gutter on booze trying to drown my pain. As someone who has been abused as a child and raped as an adult - I lived with the myth that I was weak for years. I blamed myself for what had been done. My therapist helped me to see that me, and others like me, who have not just survived, but have managed to go on to live healthy lives are stronger than most who have lived a protected life. Because I make use of drugs occasionally does not make me weak. <br><br>When my therapist was willing to do EMDR, she insisted that I take all kinds of anti-depressants, so I could bare to experience the pain I was going to suffer by facing all that has happened to me in my life. If I had chosen that route would you consider me weak? I chose not to take the drugs, and she wouldn't do EMDR. <br><br>I'm removing my earlier post. I thought you were truly interested in hearing stories to gain insight. But I can see that's not the case, and I feel I shared more than I should have. <p></p><i></i>

[chillin]

What trolls do is derail or hijack threads by being purposefully inflammatory and disrespectful and by talking a bunch of nonsense. I think your first post declared your intention to relegate the thread to the firepit. Just calling them how I see them.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[chillin]

Does a spider's neurology resemble a human's in any way? How many eyes do they have? <br><br>Your rhetoric is uniformly anti-drug and fundamentalist even if though you claim to favor legalization. There are numerous anti-drug foundations whose opinions with regards to the value of drugs to a society mirror your own. You could help them out by providing your friend's name and the details of your friend's accident, because when I try to validate that often told story they can never name names. <br><br>Personally it wouldn't surprise me, if he had 'friends' egging him on and there's no doubt that irresponsible drug use can impair some people for life. There's practically no way to verify what a chemical street drug is made of, anyone who does them is taking quite a risk.<br><br>And for the record yes, I am frequently an idiot, thanks for bringing that up. It's taking me a lifetime to get used to it. I try to be polite about it mostly. <p></p><i></i>

[robertdreed]

"I've heard all the arguments before over the last *35 years* and continue to have zero interest in the drug experience myself and feel that people who take them have serious characterological weaknesses they are bound and determined not to face; it's not truth and reality they are seeking from the drug but the escape therefrom. <br><br>That's my last word."<br><br>banned, that "final statement" couldn't be any more rigid if it were a Papal Bull from the Middle Ages. <br><br>I doubt that you've ever looked at it this way, but living in Northern California as you do, a huge percentage of people, including many who are at least your equals in intelligence and talent, have made that region their home because they're refugees from drug war repression. It's at least as potent a factor as the high percentage of gays in the area who fled a similar climate of societal repression, isolation, exclusion, shunning, and persecution. Except that for cannabis and psychedelic users, the repression is typically much worse. That should be plain. <br><br>So I don't think that I'm out of line in suggesting that your sneering has probably cost you a lot of friendships and dinner invitations, at minimum. You've laid yourself open to a lot of hostility and disdain, as well. Sad to say, as armoring against the snobbery of others, people are often known to develop snobbery of their own. I find the situation to be a mutual tragedy, in that respect. <br><br>But, how much could it bother you, if you're too good for those people anyway? What with their "serious characterological weaknesses", and all...<br><br>I no longer live in Northern California. I live in Northern Virginia now. You might feel more at home here, "banned", attitudes like yours seem to have maintained their hegemony. Coincidentally, the most overt public display of nonconformity I've encountered in my everyday wanderings thus far is the occasional Kerry-Edwards bumper sticker. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 12/16/05 11:07 am<br></i>

[professorpan]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>...people who take them have serious characterological weaknesses they are bound and determined not to face; it's not truth and reality they are seeking from the drug but the escape therefrom. <br><br>That's my last word.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Christ, I hope so.<br><br>PP<br>"Characterologically (sic) weak, truth avoiding escapist" <p></p><i></i>

[Pants Elk]

The idea of "escapism" is an old, old myth when it comes to the psychedelic experience. And, as anyone who has had the experience will tell you, it's laughable in its inappropriateness. Far from wafting you off into a cloudy world of exotic yet numb sensation (television is much better at that), an acid trip confronts you with stuff you'd previously ignored, skated over, or had no idea was there: especially with regard to the ego and Your Wonderful Personality. It can be akin to turning over the stone and seeing the creepy-crawlies.<br><br>Again, no one drug is all drugs, and I'm sure some (opium, perhaps, which I've never taken) will give you that Disneyfied escapist experience you've read about in Reader's Digest.<br><br>On mature reflection, banned, I've changed my mind (well, it changed me a few times already). I think you should take a bunch of acid. Then, if you haven't walked out of any windows or retreated into psychosis, you can give us an informed opinion. As lively and provocative as your posts are, the point has been reached where a little empirical observation and first-hand knowledge will help your argument no end. <p></p><i></i>

[Col Quisp]

Is it remotely possible to get back to the original topic? I don't even remember what the original post was, after all this backbiting, which appears to have derailed this thread, as usually happens when anyone tries to discuss certain mind-altering substances.<br><br>"Don't feed the troll."<br> <p></p><i></i>

[heyjt]

Thank you Col. Quisp.<br> Hancock used the drugs *BECAUSE HE HAD TO EXPERIANCE IT IN ORDER TO WRITE ABOUT IT*<br><br> He suggests that Altered States may unlock somthing deep within human DNA and cause it to evolve. <br> He is also convinced that paranormal entities are really there, and once the doors of perception are opened they are more readily seen.<br> I am particulearly interested in the DNA comment... <p></p><i></i>

[robertdreed]

I think that's a question that can be solved through objective laboratory analysis, rather than pronouncements of subjective impressions. <p></p><i></i>

[GDN01]

This has been proven to cause brain damage, so for heaven's sakes people, avoid it all cost!<br><br>"In the mid-1990s, there was work at both the basic research level and the clinical level showing that <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>stress and trauma have damaging physical effects on the brain.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> Clinical studies had demonstrated the reductions in the size of the hippocampus in patients with PTSD or depression. At the same time, basic research on the hippocampus in animals was revealing that stress causes a reduction in the levels of neurotrophic factors, which are chemical substances in the brain that are necessary for the survival and health of cells. Other studies showed that the processes of neurons were reduced by stress. So there was a convergence of basic and clinical research."<br><br>from <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/facts/specific/duman.html">here</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->.<br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>Sorry - I am looking for research to actually add to the discussion about DNA, and came across the above info. Will post something more productive soon. (I hope - unless I escape reality for awhile.) <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=gdn01>GDN01</A> at: 12/16/05 3:12 pm<br></i>

[GDN01]

This <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18524881.400">article</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> from New Scientist lists many studies currently underway to determine the benefits of many drugs, from MDMA to ayahuasca. It's has some fascinating info, such as:<br><br>"So Halpern's first big foray into psychedelic research was aimed at risk-assessment. In the late 1990s he launched a study of members of the Native American Church, who are permitted by US law to consume peyote. Halpern examined 210 residents of a Navajo reservation in the south-west US, who fell into three categories: church members who had taken peyote at least 100 times but had had little exposure to other drugs or alcohol; non-church members who abstained from alcohol or drugs; and former alcoholics who had been sober for at least three months.<br><br>Halpern tested the subjects' IQ, memory, reading ability and other functions. His interim results showed that church members had no cognitive impairment compared with the abstainers, and scored significantly better than recovering alcoholics. Church members also reported no "flashbacks" - sudden recurrences of a psychedelic's effects long after the initial trip. Halpern believes this study, which he expects will be published soon, shows that contrary to the 1971 editorial, peyote at least can be taken repeatedly without adverse effects."<br><br>And...<br><br>"Grob has also led several investigations like Halpern's peyote study, but looking at ayahuasca, the DMT-rich shamanic brew. Ayahuasca often causes nausea and diarrhoea, and its psychedelic effects can be terrifying, but Amazonian shamans nonetheless prize it for its visionary properties. Since 1987 it has been a legal sacrament for several churches in Brazil, the largest of which is União Do Vegetal. UDV combines elements of Christianity with nature worship, and claims 8000 members.<br><br>In 1996 a team led by Grob reported in the Journal of Nervous And Mental Disease that UDV members who regularly took ayahuasca were on average physiologically and psychologically healthier than a control group of non-worshippers. The UDV followers also had more receptors for the neurotransmitter serotonin, which has been linked to lower rates of depression and other disorders. Many of the UDV members told the scientists that ayahuasca had helped them overcome alcoholism, drug addiction and other self-destructive behaviours." <p></p><i></i>