Engagement, Attention, and Death

[Wombaticus Rex]

Anyone reading this is face to face with their own inevitable death. Let's start there. Time: it's finite.

When I was in 8th grade, I got put in charge of transcribing debates because I had authority problems with the teacher who ran the "Talented and Gifted" program. This was a blessing: it wound up teaching me more about how to think than anything anyone with a state job said to me from the front of a classroom at any point in my life. I hear it happen in the tapes, I could feel the change, the exact moment when someone started to take things personally and their tone changed. Not just their tone, though -- their methods and their goals. Debates would veer wildly off course or get stuck in iterative loops of parsing meaningless minutae to score points.

Yeah. I fucking hate that shit.

I primarily view Rigorous Intuition as an object rather than a community: my own special snowflake of a psyche at work. I read through your arguments and I only ever think the same thing: this isn't important. This doesn't matter, none of it, not one word. It won't even matter to the person who typed it, 10 minutes from now.

It's not that I don't understand, and it's definitely not that I think I'm any better off. My ego toxins are just in different realms: feel free to talk shit about my failed music career if you want to score points on me. That still works good on my bad days.

I primarily view Rigorous Intuition as an object, sure, but it's not a toaster or a shed, it's a huge glittering holographic cathedral of forbidden factoids and hard-won source material. Holy fuck, there is a lot of work put in. And sure, your personal passions are what guide a lot of that, but I'd like to propose something.

What if we all viewed this as our project rather than our property? Having been there for awhile now, I can report, quite subjectively, that I have never cared "who started it" when arguments and petty tit-for-tat, 30-quotes-deep, multi-page fuckery breaks out. Both sides are taking huge turds in everyone's punch bowl.

I just wanted to say that, really: it's poop, just poop, and it keeps floating in front of my screen. Also: you're going to die.

Thank you for your time.

[Joe Hillshoist]

[barracuda]

Yes it's poop. I'll own my part of that. It's also human nature, and I'll happily own my part of that as well - the emotion and the anger, and the love, and the amusement, and confusion that conspire to both teach us lessons and deny us understanding and sometimes even forebearance, to our delight and consternation.

But the fact remains that you accepted the position of moderator on this board. And there's more involved in that commitment than simply condescending to very occasionally inform us of the pettiness of our squabbles and the smallness of our pique: you have a responsibility to actually moderate the conversation, that is, to ensure as best you can that the dynamic of personalities does not succumb to the baser impulses of that human nature. You are not a baby sitter, but neither should you be invisible to the members. You must at least marginally be in the fray, have some skin in the game, to do it right, imho.

IMHO. I mean, take it however you want. But if the mods and admin - the smartest among us by some measures - have no interest in participating as conversants, then it won't be long til the madmen run the asylum.

[DrVolin]

it's a huge glittering holographic cathedral of forbidden factoids and hard-won source material.

I'll vote for that.

[chump]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAomAwIwxm8

[82_28]

When I was in the 8th grade they flunked me because I was a little punk. Four grades before that they placed me it what we called the Gifted and Talented program out west. I flunked and quit that shit because I couldn't stand the arrogant attitudes and I didn't want to compete with people who gave vibes that they were better than me. I wound up graduating on time, save that one year I was held back and expelled from the district with a grand total of, I think, a .89 GPA.

I view RI as a community and an object and really just think that there are some here that benefit from it, so object<community.

But thanks for your dedication in keeping this punch bowl filled with something other than the punch.

[brainpanhandler]

Anyone reading this is face to face with their own inevitable death. Let's start there. Time: it's finite.

...

Thank you for your time.

It's what we can't get any more of. But really, people don't want to be reminded of that and so proclaiming it makes no difference. For most of us the tragedy is that our lives are spent waiting to really live them, until death finally starts to become something other than a distant abstraction and by then the ride is mostly over. (on edit: I should hasten to add this sort of leisurely attitude toward the grim one only applies to degenerates not subject to drone attacks, the wanton violence of urban jungles, the slow, gnawing death of starvation and other such specters that have never threatened my existence one itoa enough to be of concern to me personally. Have to keep reminding myself of that. But it's a beautiful day here and I think I'll work in the yard.)

I think we should all have artificially induced NDE's at the age of 21 in order to pass into adulthood.



If you know not how to die, never trouble yourself; nature will fully instruct you upon the spot; she will exactly do that business for you; take you no care.- Montaigne

[Wombaticus Rex]

Yes it's poop. I'll own my part of that. It's also human nature, and I'll happily own my part of that as well -

Absolutely true.

The notion that I could "moderate" any of you...less so.

We moderators are not leaders so much as janitors.

If RI expects me to be in the middle of all your arguments, I resign from my position effective immediately. That's a waste of my life, and anyone elses.

[Simulist]

If RI expects me to be in the middle of all your arguments, I resign from my position effective immediately. That's a waste of my life, and anyone elses.

Agreed.

But if the mods and admin - the smartest among us by some measures - have no interest in participating as conversants, then it won't be long til the madmen run the asylum.

That's not only true but it is also a timely and important point, one that I'm not sure is being heard very well — so I'm highlighting it.

This does not mean that moderators need to be "in the middle of all your arguments," Wombaticus Rex; I do think that having the considerable experience and knowledge that this moderation team represents being more visibly present would tend to elevate discussion here though.

[8bitagent]

I primarily view Rigorous Intuition as an object, sure, but it's not a toaster or a shed, it's a huge glittering holographic cathedral of forbidden factoids and hard-won source material. Holy fuck, there is a lot of work put in. And sure, your personal passions are what guide a lot of that, but I'd like to propose something.

Love it! I too kind of see RI as a living breathing sculpture or multi media piece meets cooperative open source research. Or, just a grown up version of under the cover flashlight campfire spook stories(just based on all too real horrifica) I think that's why I've in recent times been drawn to sites like tumblr, which feel like the ultimate pop cultural mashup.

I literally, literally don't get the endless bickering/personal attacks/childishness. Never in my 20 years online have I ever seen it, particularly from folks well upwards of the typical 17-25 year old online nerd demographic.
But you guys are all smarter than the average online citizen so I can forgive it. Seriously, you guys are smart. It's a delicate balance to be that good of a seer and *not* fall too far into aspergers.
RI is for a very special breed of "conspiracy theorist" junkie, if I may use that term.

Go to any other political/social discussion forum. Go to left, and it becomes a stuffy shirt gatekeeper site where the slightest whiff of extra curricular positing lands you with a cold shoulder and stern warning.
Go even marginally to the right, and it ends up in Tea Party patriot militia world. And lean any other way conspiracy wise, you end up with mentally unstable paranoid tools who pass along each and every
youtube "illuminati rap" and "tragedy hoax" video like it's gospel. So good job on being the right balance of smarts, humor, social justice, deep politic and the right about of woo.

[8bitagent]

When I was in the 8th grade they flunked me because I was a little punk. Four grades before that they placed me it what we called the Gifted and Talented program out west. I flunked and quit that shit because I couldn't stand the arrogant attitudes and I didn't want to compete with people who gave vibes that they were better than me. I wound up graduating on time, save that one year I was held back and expelled from the district with a grand total of, I think, a .89 GPA.

I view RI as a community and an object and really just think that there are some here that benefit from it, so object<community.

But thanks for your dedication in keeping this punch bowl filled with something other than the punch.

I never actually graduated. Maybe it was the teen angst, depression, etc but by my senior year I just didn't give a flip. Never was in trouble, never got into drugs nor hung with the 'wrong crowd'.
(was bullied heavily til my jr year) I think one of the last things I did when I even bothered to show up to school was have a long meetings with Bill Clinton's assistant secretary of education
who for whatever reason wanted my input toward education policies. But mostly I was just listening to 80's goth music and doing a lot of reading and art. Had no friends, girlfriend, nada tostada. Remained that way for awhile, but life itself has felt like a really blurry random dream. Err...like this forum!

[Wombaticus Rex]

As long as I have a thread to rant in, I might as well put it to use.

I've been really digging on Rune Soup, and recently made the classic mistake of reading the comments on one of his recent Archonology posts. It was almost entirely people saying "Great job on this...IT REMINDS ME OF BOSTON. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT BOSTON?" -- it reminded me, for some reason, of the last time I visited Karme Choling and saw a bench full of dharma brats on iPhones. So much for "Crazy Wisdom" -- surely the Rinpoche would have smashed their phones in front of them, smiling, were he more interested in longevity than alcohol.

Such incidents have helped me to clarify a stance I semi-articulated once Innovation Patterns got underway the first time (it's back, by the way) -- Against the Present Moment. The media cycle isn't ours, it's not the global brain, it's inflicted upon us at great expense to the ruling class.

I reject it, I rebuke it -- yea, verily the whole thing. I do not buy the contention that my recent extensive reading about the October Surprise is history or somehow less relevant to the Eternal Now of my subjective sensory reality than whatever's trending on Google News, you know, "right now." Temporality is real enough, but the pace and import of the news cycle is wholly manufactured by sociopaths who do not have your best interests in mind.

I also cannot help but think of recent arguments here, and question how much the petty -- yea, so petty -- interpersonal arguments are being largely created by the terrible Rush To Know that we're all trained to embrace by our learning environments. It's easy to butt heads when we're all being led around by the nose with blinders on. Not a very generous way to put it but whoomp: there it is.

[0_0]

Quid fuit? Quod est. Quid erit? Quod fuit. That's all the news you need to know.

[stickdog99]

When it comes to processing the manufactured news cycle, individuals tend to fall into (or among) several camps:

1) those who believe whatever they are told by their favorite politically slanted news sources and anything reported by all corporate media sources,

2) those who believe everything reported unless it falls within the realm of what is allowed to be questioned in corporate media discussions,

3) those who believe everything reported unless they notice something so suspicious that they cannot craft any possible narrative with any shred of credibility to defend the lies,

4) those who believe whatever fits their preconceived notions abut the world and disbelieve whatever does not,

5) those who question everything reported and believe only what they cannot craft any possible narrative with any shred of credibility to explain away, or

6) those who disbelieve whatever the loudest professional disinfo disbelievers tell them to disbelieve.

Because it is hard for people to avoid discussion of the most noisomely manufactured "topical events", personal arguments tend to break out between those of differing camps.

I have belatedly come to realized that it is just not that big of a deal. My solution to the problem is to attempt to heal myself. If I recall correctly, the Son of the Internet once said, "Do not do unto any thread that which you would not want to be subjected to read were you not personally involved."

[Jerky]

I think we should all have artificially induced NDE's at the age of 21 in order to pass into adulthood.
If you know not how to die, never trouble yourself; nature will fully instruct you upon the spot; she will exactly do that business for you; take you no care.- Montaigne

Do you still have both your parents or something? Most of us break our Grim Reaper cherry when dealing with the first few deaths of our dearly beloveds. THEN it becomes realer than real.

Sure, it's a bummer, but you get over it. Or you don't (I know a guy...).

Jerky