David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

[Canadian_watcher]

The laws of physics are pretty well established. Wikipedia is a good start.

okay THAT had me burst out laughing!!!!!

Not to be snooty, Dr. Evil, but I think I can guess that slimmouse is WAY beyond wikipedia physics. I know I am. And also not to be too "old" but Wikipedia should almost NEVER be a source for ANYTHING. ever. Maybe just to grab a few reference points, or to counter the argument of someone else using Wikipedia as their authority but never to learn anything in any sort of reliable or deep way.

[ShinShinKid]

On this whole physics thing;

[DrEvil]

slimmouse wrote:

So are these laws valid, or not is what Im asking? It strikes me as a complete oxymoron to suggest that physical matter is incapable of faster than lightspeed travel, and then in the next breath tell us that its constituents actually are communicaton at 10,000 times faster.

Of course they're valid. The fact that your computer works at all is down to the laws of physics being valid.
Also, I don't see any contradiction in the limit on the speed of matter vs. information. They're two different things, and obviously information is doing stuff matter can't. Just how it does that is still up for debate, but does not in any way, shape or form imply any of the stuff Icke is saying.

What Im getting at is that It happens and yet it shouldnt by all definable "Laws", which also sounds pretty much like bad sci fi to me too. Only it isnt of course. Where does this fit within your garbage in garbage out scenario?

It would be bad scifi if it didn't work. The entire point of having definable laws is to minimize the "garbage in" part. You don't take anything for granted until it's been tested, beaten up, groin-stomped and endlessly reproduced. If you still can't pick holes in it, then there just might be something there, and you use it as a basis until something better comes along.

David Icke, however, is bad scifi. If you look at the two quotes I posted earlier it's pretty damn obvious that he doesn't understand what he's talking about. Super-aliens accidentally blowing up their own planet with nukes? Seriously? And two-dimensional mono-gold? It's techno-babble.

And for what its worth, I would suggest that this happens because the signal is moving in and out of our currently mapped physical dimensions. I would also contend, that If Ive figured this out, then the real scientists at lockheed skunkworks, and elsewhere have too. Didnt they tell us not long ago, that we now have the technology to send ET home, with all the resulting implications for humanity that a much clearer picture of these supposedly "unknowns" entails?

I know none of this is your fault, Im just asking a few questions is all.

And I'm happy to answer, because I think this is an important discussion.

Do you have a source for that lockheed claim btw? Would love to see it.

[DrEvil]

The laws of physics are pretty well established. Wikipedia is a good start.

okay THAT had me burst out laughing!!!!!

Not to be snooty, Dr. Evil, but I think I can guess that slimmouse is WAY beyond wikipedia physics. I know I am. And also not to be too "old" but Wikipedia should almost NEVER be a source for ANYTHING. ever. Maybe just to grab a few reference points, or to counter the argument of someone else using Wikipedia as their authority but never to learn anything in any sort of reliable or deep way.

Well yes.. That's why I made sure to include the words "is a good start", because it is. It's really not hard to judge the quality of a wikipedia article if you put some effort into it. It's a starting line, not a finish line.

And you're WAY beyond wikipedia physics? Not to be snooty, but no, you're not. From what I have read here you're not even close.

[Wombaticus Rex]

The source for the Lockheed claim was Ben Rich, who ran their "Skunk Works" -- I am about to start his autobio of the same name, I will post anything salient.

The quote is problematic since it's all third-hand stuff. I believe Bill Hamilton was the first to make the claim that Ben Rich said that line at a tech conference, but Bill Hamilton wasn't there: he heard it from Jan Hartzan.

Good thread here, the 2nd comment nails it:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/i ... pic=5048.0

This is basically Werner Von Braun warning about aliens. Or "The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media."

Not to discount the big picture, of course...but details: they matter. We cannot build on postmodern sand.

[slimmouse]

And I'm happy to answer, because I think this is an important discussion.

And Im glad you did, because youve cleared some of my own misconceptions for me. With regards to matter moving faster than light,Its actually the relaying of the information thats travelling at such superspeeds, in some kind of photon-ish form ?

Not quite so laws- of- physics busting as just plain mindboggling I guess.

As for the Lockheed quote, it has apparently been somehow mysteriously attributed to Ben Rich, but I'll be damned if I can find the original source for it, so you got me there too. The good news is that it was one hell of an informative internet search though.

In short Doc, Big thanks for correcting my own rather clumsy and arrogantly argued misconceptions. I guess thats 2 more off the list

ON edit, Thanks for the info WR. Third hand huh ? Not exactly prima fasce evidence of much at all really then.

[seemslikeadream]

If there are any hardcore true Icke believers here ....please stand up...



now I am not going to wait for an answer here cause I'm sure I know it.


ZERO


NADA

ZIP

No one

Nil

naught




You are wasting time and space here AD

and if there ever was one you surely have scared them off never to return....so again your job is done....move along we get it ....we ain't a bunch of kindergartners here

when will our long RI national nightmare be over?

Please have mercy on our souls

ask a mod if you can pin a note at the top "No Ickes Allowed"

whatever just I beg of you my head hurts......it's like fingernails on a chalkboard .....you're making my ears bleed


sweet jesus mother of god I implore you

we all understand Icke is the scourge of the earth ....he is going to destroy us all very soon now ...we got the warning....I'm in my bunker right now with the lights off...I'm typing by candle light so he can't find me...what more can I do? Don't answer that

[brainpanhandler]

Would it be helpful, and speaking just for myself here, to remember that the level of contention can escalate when someone has a personal stake in the issue? I have had rather strong reactions to the promotion of Icke, because he includes in his areas of focus the same (usually denied/discredited) human rights abuses that I was subjected to, but then that reality gets poisoned with the reptile and other woo pills. Emotionally, I can react to his visage the same way I might to an FMSF member. In short, I feel like his actions are personally harmful to me, so maintaining some sort of balance in a disagreement over him is much more difficult. You know, sometimes I just would rather yell Grrrrrrrrrrr! than attempt any sort of discourse.

Exactly Willow. There are litmus tests that can be applied to some 'thinkers' (I use the term loosely). I mean if directly supporting the PEZ is insufficient to deter some, then perhaps your comments above would add enough weight to tip the balance.

I wish the participants in this thread would reread what you have written here. And I wish you and AD could expand on this line of criticism.

[seemslikeadream]

So AD starts an Icke thread and I am supposed to watch what I say?

I believe Willow could just ignore AD OP altogether


there are 'thinkers' (I use the term loosely).


and then there are people who have nothing better....boredology NBTD (I use the term loosely) to do.. than search all my posts going back a year

[Project Willow]

I am indeed free to ignore any number of things that I find personally harmful or upsetting, but that isn't the issue, (not to mention the questionable facility of adopting such a policy in certain cases). Neither was I suggesting there be any sort of enforced orthodoxy. I was attempting to encourage parties to the discussion to consider that it isn't an entirely neutral, objective experience for everyone involved, and perhaps that could elicit a bit more patience and understanding. That is sometimes the case in regards to many subjects here.

So, could we have a bit more patience and understanding with each other, please? That includes everyone.

You know, it might even be worthwhile to explore why this issue engenders such passions between posters here, if this is done respectfully.

[Six Hits of Sunshine]

You know, it might even be worthwhile to explore why this issue engenders such passions between posters here, if this is done respectfully.

FWIW, I very much doubt the Icke issue engenders the passions between posters here. I think there are probably a multitude of factors at work, few of which have to do with Icke himself. I'm more of a lurker than a poster here -- due in no small part to how shocked I was at some comments that were directed at me after I posted what I thought was an otherwise innocuous comment. Partly I think the medium was/is lacking in being able to foster true communication, partly I think I'm not the best communicator, and partly I think the particular respondent in my case is/was an asshole (having read his other posts). My two cents...

[worldsastage]

Would it be helpful, and speaking just for myself here, to remember that the level of contention can escalate when someone has a personal stake in the issue? I have had rather strong reactions to the promotion of Icke, because he includes in his areas of focus the same (usually denied/discredited) human rights abuses that I was subjected to, but then that reality gets poisoned with the reptile and other woo pills. Emotionally, I can react to his visage the same way I might to an FMSF member. In short, I feel like his actions are personally harmful to me, so maintaining some sort of balance in a disagreement over him is much more difficult. You know, sometimes I just would rather yell Grrrrrrrrrrr! than attempt any sort of discourse.

Exactly Willow. There are litmus tests that can be applied to some 'thinkers' (I use the term loosely). I mean if directly supporting the PEZ is insufficient to deter some, then perhaps your comments above would add enough weight to tip the balance.

I wish the participants in this thread would reread what you have written here. And I wish you and AD could expand on this line of criticism.

This is very important. Even if not said explicitly I implied in another thread that it ain't good if it harms. I can't take Icke too seriously, even if some of the things he presents are interesting to think about. I take the information on human rights abuses etc and add it the list. But he also causes harm by the shilling of particular ideas that discredits the information on real abuse and questioning of the status quo.

[American Dream]

You know, it might even be worthwhile to explore why this issue engenders such passions between posters here, if this is done respectfully.

FWIW, I very much doubt the Icke issue engenders the passions between posters here. I think there are probably a multitude of factors at work, few of which have to do with Icke himself. I'm more of a lurker than a poster here -- due in no small part to how shocked I was at some comments that were directed at me after I posted what I thought was an otherwise innocuous comment. Partly I think the medium was/is lacking in being able to foster true communication, partly I think I'm not the best communicator, and partly I think the particular respondent in my case is/was an asshole (having read his other posts). My two cents...

I don't know the incident in question but mostly I think there's a certain culture at play- one where working together for a higher purpose takes a back seat.

Instead, we get self-indulgence, the projection of personal issues, "fight club" dynamics, and all the rest.

Not to gloss over the huge differences in who we each are and how we see things but I would like more of a community of researchers and activists guided by both clear thinking and by imagination, myself...

[brainpanhandler]

You know, it might even be worthwhile to explore why this issue engenders such passions between posters here, if this is done respectfully.

I think that's a topic for a meta thread because I believe much of the rancor has little to do with principled disagreements over Icke. And I'll be goddamned if I am going to go about publicly revealing thoughts on my own projections with other members that haven't the faintest clue as to their own and would just use it as ammunition.

[brainpanhandler]

You know, it might even be worthwhile to explore why this issue engenders such passions between posters here, if this is done respectfully.

FWIW, I very much doubt the Icke issue engenders the passions between posters here. I think there are probably a multitude of factors at work, few of which have to do with Icke himself. I'm more of a lurker than a poster here -- due in no small part to how shocked I was at some comments that were directed at me after I posted what I thought was an otherwise innocuous comment. Partly I think the medium was/is lacking in being able to foster true communication, partly I think I'm not the best communicator, and partly I think the particular respondent in my case is/was an asshole (having read his other posts). My two cents...

I don't know the incident in question but mostly I think there's a certain culture at play- one where working together for a higher purpose takes a back seat.

Instead, we get self-indulgence, the projection of personal issues, "fight club" dynamics, and all the rest.

Not to gloss over the huge differences in who we each are and how we see things but I would like more of a community of researchers and activists guided by [size=150]both clear thinking and by imagination, myself...[/size]

Amen. And let's add to that list self reflection and an ability to freely change one's mind in the light of new evidence and maybe even a desire to try to walk in another's shoes for a bit. And god forbid, maybe even giving others the benefit of the doubt every once in awhile. And hell, while we're dreaming .... possibly even the generosity of spirit to forgive another their transgressions and let go of petty grudges.