Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Postby Nordic » Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:19 pm

justdrew » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:13 pm wrote:http://www.autosec.org/

so the basic thing here is the idiot car manufacturers have setup a completely insecure system.

it seems that this stuff is NOT accessible BY DEFAULT via wireless, however, it might be possible to get into the Controller Area Network from say, the onStar radio, maybe. Though I suspect some new cars have WiMax/WiFi built in to support in dash navigation and web access. Such a radio is likely plugged directly into the CAN.

Certainly it would be possible to access the car physically, and install a wireless system onto the computer access port, for later use. Such a device would be small, and hard to find in the wreckage.

Would love to know more about WHO is examining the wreckage, where the wreckage is, etc.

So...

ABDOC

Always Be Driving Old Cars



The wreckage has already been shipped off to China to be recycled.

Jk



Btw this whole thing seems as obvious as the D.C Madame's case.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Postby justdrew » Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:56 pm

Nordic » 22 Jun 2013 15:18 wrote:Q: “You saw the sparks prior to him hitting anything? You just saw it at the bottom of the car?”
A: “Yes, plenty from the beginning, way before he crossed the light.”


can anyone link to a source on that witness, where we could hear or read the full report?

because there are no 'sparks' seen in the video a few blocks north where the red light is run.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Postby Canadian_watcher » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:01 pm

DrEvil » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:03 pm wrote:I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if this has been mentioned.

Hacking cars is perfectly possible and has been demonstrated:

Proof-of-Concept CarShark Software Hacks Car Computers, Shutting Down Brakes, Engines, and More

http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2010 ... e-and-more

Also, my uncle is a Mercedes fan, and he has had some very strange problems over the years, like the brakes suddenly not working after a software update, and the car refusing to go faster than 10mph.
The fix involved plugging in a laptop and patching/resetting the car's software.


thank you for this. I will stress again that this is NOT unusual tech. Look at the onstar site to gather just what they'll sell to the average consumer with a smart phone APP, for goodness sake: https://www.onstar.com/web/portal/connectionsexplore?tab=2 Not to mention that they've been able to do this with jets for a long time. It's a computer in a car. The computer controls the car. The computer in the car is connected to a network. Computers on networks (and maybe not even) can be hacked.

It seems as if his car was hacked.

Question though: are we sure that his body was even IN the car? seriously. I'm not trying to be all 'conspiracy theory' on anyone's ass.. but I didn't see a dude in there. did anyone? any of the witnesses?
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Postby Hunter » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:19 pm

There is no way anyone will EVER convince me that a person of Hastings conscience and character blew a red light doing 100MPH and put lives in danger, his fucking car was fucked with and its case closed as far as I am concerned call me closed minded or whatever but that car was fucked with and he was killed. I know Barret Brown and Michael Hastings are not JFK RFK and MLK and I wasnt alive then but I bet this is sort kinda how it felt to lose a voice of your generation, one of them in prison and another dead.

This really sucks and I hope the noise level ratchets up a bit because this is wrong wrong wrong.
Hunter
 
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:10 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Postby Asta » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:20 pm

What part of:

Q: “You saw the sparks prior to him hitting anything? You just saw it at the bottom of the car?”
A: “Yes, plenty from the beginning, way before he crossed the light.”

... did you not understand?


Okay, I don't understand. Are you saying that the witness could not have seen what he claims from where he was located?

Regarding an earlier post with the signs saying 'it was not an accident", looks like the streets are smooth, nice asphalt. I don't think palm trees have extensive root systems.

I'm still thinking Cruise Control. I almost destroyed my mom's Chevy sedan when the cruise control activated while I was driving to the grocery store for her, and the car suddenly decided to go NASCAR on a 45 mph road. This was back in 1990. I turned off the engine, and coasted over to the shoulder, scared the crap out of me.

Seriously. If the cruise control decided on 100 mph and the brakes did not respond to the command OFF, what would you do? What if you couldn't turn off your car? What if you didn't want to kill other people on the road? I guess I would try to hit a barrier and hope for the best. I think I would have tried to turn the car into a doughnut roll, flip over and hope I didn't hit anything. End up like a turtle on its back, so to speak.
Asta
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 2:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Postby Hunter » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:29 pm

Asta » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:20 pm wrote:
What part of:

Q: “You saw the sparks prior to him hitting anything? You just saw it at the bottom of the car?”
A: “Yes, plenty from the beginning, way before he crossed the light.”

... did you not understand?


Okay, I don't understand. Are you saying that the witness could not have seen what he claims from where he was located?

Regarding an earlier post with the signs saying 'it was not an accident", looks like the streets are smooth, nice asphalt. I don't think palm trees have extensive root systems.

I'm still thinking Cruise Control. I almost destroyed my mom's Chevy sedan when the cruise control activated while I was driving to the grocery store for her, and the car suddenly decided to go NASCAR on a 45 mph road. This was back in 1990. I turned off the engine, and coasted over to the shoulder, scared the crap out of me.

Seriously. If the cruise control decided on 100 mph and the brakes did not respond to the command OFF, what would you do? What if you couldn't turn off your car? What if you didn't want to kill other people on the road? I guess I would try to hit a barrier and hope for the best. I think I would have tried to turn the car into a doughnut roll, flip over and hope I didn't hit anything. End up like a turtle on its back, so to speak.

Yea you got zero chance in that little coupe at 100MPH out of control, even at 70mph thats fast not much you can do, no way did he blew that red light he is not the kind of guy that would do that, I have read almost every single word this guy has written this week, he is a man of high moral character and conscience not some crazed maniac that would go for a high speed joy ride and blow red lights, give me a fucking break.

His colleagues are pissing me off, just writing this shit off. So far at least, maybe that will change soon.
Hunter
 
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:10 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Postby nashvillebrook » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:03 pm

Modern accelerators are "drive by wire" meaning they're controlled electronically (which is how cruise control is employed). I don't know about his C250, but most brake systems have a basic manual component with electronic additions (such as anti-lock features). However, we know that brake cables can be cut, brake fluid drained, etc., so brakes don't necessarily require an electronic interface to be compromised by an "adversary."

As the proof of concept papers point out, there's all sorts of ways that computer-dependent cars are vulnerable to being "hacked."

one more edit -- i've driven on all kinds of roads at 100+ mph, and you don't automatically just loose control crash and die from simply reaching that speed. 100 mph in that car would likely feel pretty tame. What I find strange about the speed is that, as a car enthusiast, you generally find an open space, let loose, hit a turn or two and celebrate. I agree with the poster who said there's "no reason" to drive that fast unless you were trying to kill yourself or not in control of your vehicle. If he were trying to lose someone tailing him, he'd have taken turns for evasion -- but this wasn't that. This was straight as an arrow.
nashvillebrook
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:19 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Postby Hunter » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:29 pm

nashvillebrook » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:03 pm wrote:Modern accelerators are "drive by wire" meaning they're controlled electronically (which is how cruise control is employed). I don't know about his C250, but most brake systems have a basic manual component with electronic additions (such as anti-lock features). However, we know that brake cables can be cut, brake fluid drained, etc., so brakes don't necessarily require an electronic interface to be compromised by an "adversary."

As the proof of concept papers point out, there's all sorts of ways that computer-dependent cars are vulnerable to being "hacked."

one more edit -- i've driven on all kinds of roads at 100+ mph, and you don't automatically just loose control crash and die from simply reaching that speed. 100 mph in that car would likely feel pretty tame. What I find strange about the speed is that, as a car enthusiast, you generally find an open space, let loose, hit a turn or two and celebrate. I agree with the poster who said there's "no reason" to drive that fast unless you were trying to kill yourself or not in control of your vehicle. If he were trying to lose someone tailing him, he'd have taken turns for evasion -- but this wasn't that. This was straight as an arrow.
Correct its not the speed I was referring to as being out of control it was likely his inability to slow down, no brakes or whatever. The sparks seen are probably from the car bottoming out, small bumps in a road will do that at high speed and that would cause a fish tail to someone not used to controlling a car at that speed and once in a fish tail at that speed its over pretty quick unless you are a very experienced driver and most are not.
Hunter
 
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:10 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:48 pm

Spiro C. Thiery » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:35 pm wrote:FWiW, @1:43 of the vid:
Q: “You saw the sparks prior to him hitting anything? You just saw it at the bottom of the car?”
A: “Yes, plenty from the beginning, way before he crossed the light.”



Thanks for this, Spiro. You know what got my attention besides the sparks comment? "Explosions". As in multiple. How does that happen with a completely ejected engine and transmission? And that he didn't appear to lose control until after he crossed the light on Melrose. So WTF was creating the sparks prior to his loss of control? I'll have to drive through that area soon to check for potholes, which I'm not aware of, but I can say from experience there's definitely no problem with massive tree roots under the pavement creating bumps. Highland's always been a straight, smooth ride for me. If I'm catching an old favorite at the New Beverly, Highland's my preferred street to get home.
User avatar
stillrobertpaulsen
 
Posts: 2414
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:43 pm
Location: Gone baby gone
Blog: View Blog (37)

Re: Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Postby nashvillebrook » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:48 pm

this is interesting...from the academic paper that PopSci references in the proof of concept article.

http://www.autosec.org/pubs/cars-usenixsec2011.pdf

On security vulnerabilities...

7.2 Vulnerability drivers
While the recommendations in Section 7.1 can signifi- cantly increase the security of modern cars against exter- nal attacks and post-compromise control, none of these ideas are new or innovative. Thus, perhaps the more interesting question is why they have not been applied in the automotive environment already. Our findings and subsequent interactions with the automotive industry have given us a unique vantage point for answering this question.

One clear reason is that automobiles have not yet been subjected to significant adversarial pressures. Traditionally automobiles have not been network-connected and thus manufacturers have not had to anticipate the actions of an external adversary; anyone who could get close enough to a car to modify its systems was also close enough to do significant damage through physical means. Our automotive systems now have broad connectivity; millions of cars on the road today can be directly addressed via cellular phones and via the Internet.

This is similar to the evolution of desktop personal computer security during the early 1990s. In the same way that connecting PCs to the Internet exposed extant vulnerabilities that previously could not conveniently be exploited, so too does increasing the connectivity of auto- motive systems. This analogy suggests that, even though automotive attacks do not take place today, there is cause to take their potential seriously. Indeed, much of our work is motivated by a desire that the automotive manufacturers should not repeat the mistakes of the PC industry — wait- ing for high profile attacks before making security a top priority [18, 19]. We believe many of the lessons learned in hardening desktop systems (such as those suggested ear- lier) can be quickly re-purposed for the embedded context.

However, our experimental vulnerability analyses also uncover an ecosystem for which high levels of assurance may be fundamentally challenging. Reflecting upon our discovered vulnerabilities, we noticed interesting similarities in where they occur. In particular, virtually all vulnerabilities emerged at the interface boundaries between code written by distinct organizations.

Consider for example the Airbiquity software modem, which appears to have been delivered as a completed component. We found vulnerabilities not in the software modem itself but rather in the “glue” code calling it and binding it to other telematics functions. It was here that the caller did not appear to fully understand the assumptions made by the component being called.

We find this pattern repeatedly. The Bluetooth vulnerability arose from a similar misunderstanding between the callers of the Bluetooth protocol stack library and its implementers (again in glue code). The PassThru vulnerability arose in script-based glue code that tried to interface a proprietary configuration protocol with standard Linux configuration scripts. Even the media player firmware update vulnerability appears to have arisen because the manufacturer was unaware of the vestigial CD-based reflashing capability implemented in the code base.

While interface boundary problems are common in all kinds of software, we believe there are structural reasons that make them particularly likely in the automotive industry. In particular, the automotive industry has adopted an outsourcing approach to software that is quite similar to that used for mechanical components: supply a specification and contract for completed parts. Thus, for many components the manufacturer does not do the software development and is only responsible for integration. We have found, for example, that different model years of ECUs with effectively the same functionality used completely different source code bases because they were provided by different suppliers. Indeed, we have come to understand that frequently manufacturers do not have access to the source code for the ECUs they contract for (and suppliers are hesitant to provide such code since this represents their key intellectual property advantage over the manufacturer). Thus, while each supplier does unit testing (according to the specification) it is difficult for the manufacturer to evaluate security vulnerabilities that emerge at the integration stage. Traditional kinds of automated analysis and code reviews cannot be applied and assumptions not embodied in the specifications are difficult to unravel. Therefore, while this outsourcing process might have been appropriate for purely mechanical systems, it is no longer appropriate for digital systems that have the potential for remote compromise.

Developing security solutions compatible with the automotive ecosystem is challenging and we believe it will require more engagement between the computer security community and automotive manufacturers (in the same way that our community engages directly with the makers of PC software today).
nashvillebrook
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:19 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Postby 82_28 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:54 pm

Alchemy » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:29 pm wrote:
nashvillebrook » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:03 pm wrote:Modern accelerators are "drive by wire" meaning they're controlled electronically (which is how cruise control is employed). I don't know about his C250, but most brake systems have a basic manual component with electronic additions (such as anti-lock features). However, we know that brake cables can be cut, brake fluid drained, etc., so brakes don't necessarily require an electronic interface to be compromised by an "adversary."

As the proof of concept papers point out, there's all sorts of ways that computer-dependent cars are vulnerable to being "hacked."

one more edit -- i've driven on all kinds of roads at 100+ mph, and you don't automatically just loose control crash and die from simply reaching that speed. 100 mph in that car would likely feel pretty tame. What I find strange about the speed is that, as a car enthusiast, you generally find an open space, let loose, hit a turn or two and celebrate. I agree with the poster who said there's "no reason" to drive that fast unless you were trying to kill yourself or not in control of your vehicle. If he were trying to lose someone tailing him, he'd have taken turns for evasion -- but this wasn't that. This was straight as an arrow.
Correct its not the speed I was referring to as being out of control it was likely his inability to slow down, no brakes or whatever. The sparks seen are probably from the car bottoming out, small bumps in a road will do that at high speed and that would cause a fish tail to someone not used to controlling a car at that speed and once in a fish tail at that speed its over pretty quick unless you are a very experienced driver and most are not.


With a car like that, it is highly likely it can go from 45 to 100 within mere seconds. The "jack knifing" was likely due to him having to pull the e-brake after a sudden few seconds of frightening acceleration and lack of brake response. It could also be likely that the act of pulling the mechanical e-brake is what ignited the explosives hidden underneath with just a simple connection and fuse that could probably be installed within minutes. He pulls it while the drive shaft kept pulling it along and its "jack knife" happens with a simultaneous boom.

I was thinking muckraking journalists should switch to old school cars with none of the techno bells and whistles, but then I immediately flashed on the closing scene of "Casino". They can do it any which way they choose if they want to.
Last edited by 82_28 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Postby 8bitagent » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:06 pm

Alchemy » Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:19 pm wrote:There is no way anyone will EVER convince me that a person of Hastings conscience and character blew a red light doing 100MPH and put lives in danger, his fucking car was fucked with and its case closed as far as I am concerned call me closed minded or whatever but that car was fucked with and he was killed. I know Barret Brown and Michael Hastings are not JFK RFK and MLK and I wasnt alive then but I bet this is sort kinda how it felt to lose a voice of your generation, one of them in prison and another dead.

This really sucks and I hope the noise level ratchets up a bit because this is wrong wrong wrong.


Well everyone on here were becoming immature brats yelling at eachother on the zillion page Sandy Hook and Boston Bombing thread. Yet here is finally a case that's so obvious and in your face. I mean this is up there with Gary Caridori or Jessica Lynch's comrades, if not more as far as "Gimme a freaking break" cases.

This guy wasn't just speeding. This guy was going SUICIDE fast. Like he wanted to die and didnt care who he took out in the process(other cars, pedestrians, etc) That is IF there is no foul play.
So if there wasn't foul play, he was on a suicide mission.

I think these gatekeeper journos, behind the smugness, just don't want to swallow and meditate on WHAT IT WOULD MEAN if this was foul play.
For these wonks, all the government evil has been "over there". Bombing villages, torture, and covering that up. But ON THE HOMEFRONT? NEVER!

I have the feeling that if the car had blown up sky high if it was parked and Hastings turned the key on the ignition, these fake ass "progressive" gatekeepers would be screaming there's no conspiracy
and that it was just a freak mechanical accident.
We've seen a LOT of suspicious events happen. But in the modern post 9/11 era, this one takes the cake as far as possible assassinations in the US.
I still cant get over that "This isnt Russia! Journalists aren't killed, they're discredited" line. My God. The ignorance of some of these "journalists".
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Postby Hunter » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:20 pm

Barret Brown on Hastings

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/ ... l-hastings




This is a great example of what RI can do when we all work together and not against eachother, a lot of good info in this thread that could be used to help get to the bottom of this MURDER.
Hunter
 
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:10 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Postby 8bitagent » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:31 pm

Alchemy » Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:29 pm wrote:
Asta » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:20 pm wrote:
What part of:

Q: “You saw the sparks prior to him hitting anything? You just saw it at the bottom of the car?”
A: “Yes, plenty from the beginning, way before he crossed the light.”

... did you not understand?


Okay, I don't understand. Are you saying that the witness could not have seen what he claims from where he was located?

Regarding an earlier post with the signs saying 'it was not an accident", looks like the streets are smooth, nice asphalt. I don't think palm trees have extensive root systems.

I'm still thinking Cruise Control. I almost destroyed my mom's Chevy sedan when the cruise control activated while I was driving to the grocery store for her, and the car suddenly decided to go NASCAR on a 45 mph road. This was back in 1990. I turned off the engine, and coasted over to the shoulder, scared the crap out of me.

Seriously. If the cruise control decided on 100 mph and the brakes did not respond to the command OFF, what would you do? What if you couldn't turn off your car? What if you didn't want to kill other people on the road? I guess I would try to hit a barrier and hope for the best. I think I would have tried to turn the car into a doughnut roll, flip over and hope I didn't hit anything. End up like a turtle on its back, so to speak.

Yea you got zero chance in that little coupe at 100MPH out of control, even at 70mph thats fast not much you can do, no way did he blew that red light he is not the kind of guy that would do that, I have read almost every single word this guy has written this week, he is a man of high moral character and conscience not some crazed maniac that would go for a high speed joy ride and blow red lights, give me a fucking break.

His colleagues are pissing me off, just writing this shit off. So far at least, maybe that will change soon.



That email is chilling. I mean we can only take Wikileaks word at face value, but seeing an email from him 15 hours before he died. Yipes.

Now Asta has a good point, as do you.

So let's say there's no foul play and the car on its own malfunctioned. He's going crazy crazy speeds, even at a deserted 4:30 AM...its Los Angeles. Bound to be people and cars at some point.
He knows the car won't stop. He knows the car is eventually going to impact. He has seconds to determine if he's going to plow into oncoming human being or take his chances and crash elsewhere.

If it's not a car bomb, then were looking at either a stuck acceleration/broken breaks by either foul play or random mechanical failure. Or intentional suicide. It's one of those three things.
This guys lived and breathed morality, he wouldn't put people's lives at risk. He literally could have easily plowed into a car/house/pedestrian and killed someone.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Journalist Michael Hastings is dead at 33

Postby justdrew » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:33 pm

8bit, "This isnt Russia! Journalists aren't killed, they're discredited" - is actually quite accurate the vast majority of the time. We don't have good reason to suspect 'the government' in maybe ANY case, it's always a shadow operative hired by gawd only knows who.

There's always bad stories coming out, this was a good journalist but there's plenty of stories out there I'm sure certain officials in the government would rather were not. A 'big story' damaging to "the government" isn't grounds for assassination. Or we would have a much longer list.

I really think the most probable culprit is one or more disgruntled former-members of the General's staff and/or the General himself, it would have been a private act, "unsanctioned"
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 171 guests