Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

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Re: Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

Postby Canadian_watcher » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:12 pm

look, we can't all be The Same.
Some people can get behind 'angry movements' like Occupy, etc and others just cannot.
Along the same lines, the world would literally stop in its tracks if every single thing that every single person believed in and created their lives around was impervious to the critique that: " there's no grounding in activism, identifying and shaming evil, the fight against cultural relics from feudalism, etc." (Wombat, above)

We can't ALL be organic farmers, of you see where I'm going with that.

FTR, I couldn't get through Tolle's book, but as Wombat says, it's not like it's a new theory, so that's the main reason I put it down. Heard it before, don't need to hear it again Also FTR, I *do* think it is incredibly important for each of us to believe that we personally embody the whole spirit of the universe and that we try and carry ourselves that way in our actions, but also in our thoughts which might as well trend towards the peaceful. Living that way doesn't mean that you have to lay down and let the tank roll over you, it just means that you keep a certain eye on a certain prize, that's all. IMO, that's part of the message. I could be wrong.

As someone who lives with depression and anxiety which at times is unbelievably devastating I can tell you that repeating positive messages is in fact one of the most helpful things I can do to recover from an episode. If the only good thing that ever comes from someone like Tolle is to help people who are sick in the same way that I am to get to higher ground well then, that's good enough.

Besides, wtf has the 'shaming evil' crowd done for anyone lately? Who are they, and where are they? What are they even saying, lately? Is it something along the lines of "don't question current events you tin foil hat wearing fucktards?" because that's the loudest message coming out of progressives that I can hear.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:22 pm

Canadian_watcher » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:12 am wrote:Besides, wtf has the 'shaming evil' crowd done for anyone lately? Who are they, and where are they? What are they even saying, lately?


http://shameproject.com/ <== that's been a big win. Those people they've named have been doing damage control ever since.

I would also venture the notion that the entire OCCUPY operation came from squarely within that same camp. Name names, right? Counterpunch still breaks stories. Nobody at Wikileaks or AntiSec was spending much time thinking about how to disengage from Maya. Russell Tice just struck a mighty blow against the past 2 decades of prefab "history."

When I think about a synthesis of the two -- intuition and rigor -- it's hard to beat Vadana Shiva, still going strong.

Is it really so hard to think of a single example for you?
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Re: Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

Postby Canadian_watcher » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:26 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:22 am wrote:
Canadian_watcher » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:12 am wrote:Besides, wtf has the 'shaming evil' crowd done for anyone lately? Who are they, and where are they? What are they even saying, lately?


http://shameproject.com/ <== that's been a big win. Those people they've named have been doing damage control ever since.

I would also venture the notion that the entire OCCUPY operation came from squarely within that same camp. Name names, right? Counterpunch still breaks stories. Nobody at Wikileaks or AntiSec was spending much time thinking about how to disengage from Maya. Russell Tice just struck a mighty blow against the past 2 decades of prefab "history."

When I think about a synthesis of the two -- intuition and rigor -- it's hard to beat Vadana Shiva, still going strong.

Is it really so hard to think of a single example for you?


great! now when those people want a day off they might just be into Tolle. All I'm saying is that it takes all kinds.
You don't want some homogeneous world, do you? Besides, after the fight is over, what are you going to do if you don't have other people building while you're out tearing down?

Seems that your clipped world view might be just as damaging to the planet as that of the current power structure.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

Postby barracuda » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:40 pm

Canadian_watcher » Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:26 am wrote:Seems that your clipped world view might be just as damaging to the planet as that of the current power structure.


Probably not, though, right?

Wombaticus Rex wrote:there is just no precedent for mass consciousness change.


I suspect there is, but it's at least partially cloaked by the marketing which drove it into being.
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Re: Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:41 pm

Canadian_watcher » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:26 am wrote:
Seems that your clipped world view might be just as damaging to the planet as that of the current power structure.


An astute point, and one I came to agree with years ago. You're far better off under Cheney than me.
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Re: Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

Postby barracuda » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:45 pm

Aren't you running for public office? 'Cause that sounds suspiciously like a platform plank.
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Re: Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

Postby slimmouse » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:50 pm

barracuda wrote:
Wombaticus Rex wrote:there is just no precedent for mass consciousness change.


I suspect there is, but it's at least partially cloaked by the marketing which drove it into being.


Had I not been anything approaching quite so sure yet, I may well have added, "therefore aliens".

That aside, thats one fucking cute point, cuda.
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Re: Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

Postby Canadian_watcher » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:52 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:41 am wrote:
Canadian_watcher » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:26 am wrote:
Seems that your clipped world view might be just as damaging to the planet as that of the current power structure.


An astute point, and one I came to agree with years ago. You're far better off under Cheney than me.


your cleverness is preventing me from getting your point.
I'm sure it's that I'm stupid, and not that you're opaque.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:59 pm

Barracuda, your point re: marketing is a stunner and I will probably be stuck chewing on that for the rest of the day. Be warned: it might even result in me changing my mind re: Tolle.

CW, I was being completely serious and blunt. The consequences of me being given the unilateral power that Cheney possessed at his peak would result in a far worse outcome for the human species. I'm not being self-depreciating or clever.
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Re: Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

Postby worldsastage » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:13 pm

I do believe it takes all kinds to make our reality what it is. I'm all for seeing how connected we each are and I do believe we are. At times such ideas have been very helpful in getting me out of a depressive funk and doing something that benefits others. However teachings like Tolle's also encourages a sort of passivity for those whose nature is such. I am action oriented but can accept that for others navel gazing is what works. At some point that navel grazing has to result in action otherwise it's just selfish mental masturbation in my view.

I couldn't get into Tolle. It brought back too much of my former cult, since they buy into some of this stuff while claiming to be action oriented. Their action amounted to naming and shaming evil by labeling and attacking everyone who disagrees with their POV. Thus evil was defined by the cult and only the cult. What this does is discourage activism, while encouraging insular group think and denigration of those who see things differently. The idea is that everyone has to believe the same thing, or have the same awareness etc., etc. in order for the world to advance. Not all spiritual groups are so....shall I say.... evil and controlling. It is a bitch trying to figure out which is which. Time is better spent doing something that helps the neighbor. In my view, ideas like Tolle's are the bait used to capture people who yearn for a spiritual ideal, who want a better world. Unfortunately often such people are broken down and molded into being something others believe will help usher in the new consciousness while millions continue to suffer.
"who is more likely to make a personal, resolute change - an optimist... or a pessimist?
I reckon The System prefers an optimist"----Coffin_dodger
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Re: Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

Postby slimmouse » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:22 pm

Wombaticus Rex » 23 Jun 2013 16:59 wrote:Barracuda, your point re: marketing is a stunner and I will probably be stuck chewing on that for the rest of the day. Be warned: it might even result in me changing my mind re: Tolle.

CW, I was being completely serious and blunt. The consequences of me being given the unilateral power that Cheney possessed at his peak would result in a far worse outcome for the human species. I'm not being self-depreciating or clever.


Had you been Dick Cheney, then along with everyone here, you'd probably be dead WR.

Given the fact that in our little scenario it was you, or any of the rest of us, then I would argue that such a death would be no good thing.

But of course there are plenty of people who have been killed, as we have seen around here for long enough now, who may have thoroughly deserved to have been our new Dick Cheneys,et al.

These people were fully armed with the tools to do the jobs of Cheney and co in a far better manner.

I believe their number is on the verge of exploding exponentially.

What I'm suggesting here is that we can get what needs to be done, done.
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Re: Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

Postby American Dream » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:30 pm

worldsastage » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:13 pm wrote:I do believe it takes all kinds to make our reality what it is. I'm all for seeing how connected we each are and I do believe we are. At times such ideas have been very helpful in getting me out of a depressive funk and doing something that benefits others. However teachings like Tolle's also encourages a sort of passivity for those whose nature is such. I am action oriented but can accept that for others navel gazing is what works. At some point that navel grazing has to result in action otherwise it's just selfish mental masturbation in my view.

I couldn't get into Tolle. It brought back too much of my former cult, since they buy into some of this stuff while claiming to be action oriented. Their action amounted to naming and shaming evil by labeling and attacking everyone who disagrees with their POV. Thus evil was defined by the cult and only the cult. What this does is discourage activism, while encouraging insular group think and denigration of those who see things differently. The idea is that everyone has to believe the same thing, or have the same awareness etc., etc. in order for the world to advance. Not all spiritual groups are so....shall I say.... evil and controlling. It is a bitch trying to figure out which is which. Time is better spent doing something that helps the neighbor. In my view, ideas like Tolle's are the bait used to capture people who yearn for a spiritual ideal, who want a better world. Unfortunately often such people are broken down and molded into being something others believe will help usher in the new consciousness while millions continue to suffer.


Bingo! I suspect there is much in Tolle's teachings that mirrors classic thought reform/marketing/PR techniques. Not unlike some of the popular conspiratologists, Tolle draws from the tool kit of those "evil" forces he would purport to stand apart from.

Looking for "the Conspiracy"?

You may not have to look so far at all...

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Re: Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

Postby brekin » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:37 pm

worldasastage wrote:
I couldn't get into Tolle. It brought back too much of my former cult, since they buy into some of this stuff while claiming to be action oriented. Their action amounted to naming and shaming evil by labeling and attacking everyone who disagrees with their POV. Thus evil was defined by the cult and only the cult. What this does is discourage activism, while encouraging insular group think and denigration of those who see things differently. The idea is that everyone has to believe the same thing, or have the same awareness etc., etc. in order for the world to advance. Not all spiritual groups are so....shall I say.... evil and controlling. It is a bitch trying to figure out which is which. Time is better spent doing something that helps the neighbor. In my view, ideas like Tolle's are the bait used to capture people who yearn for a spiritual ideal, who want a better world. Unfortunately often such people are broken down and molded into being something others believe will help usher in the new consciousness while millions continue to suffer.


I think the above underlined line is devastatingly on the money of where spiritual ideals start to tip into totalitarianism. Believing the world needs to do X to advance carries the seed of hostility because no matter how well meaning people start out, they get resentful and hostile once they feel like their own fulfillment, happiness, security, etc is dependent on others who are failing to do their part. Not everyone is going to go vegan, do yoga, meditate, etc and that really seems to irk some people. (Ironically it also seems to irk the very same people once people do start to go vegan, do yoga, and meditate in large numbers "without the proper awareness") With I guess is another word for groupthink.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:51 pm

Well, to be fair to the True Believers, it's such a pernicious and frequently-resurrected notion because it's entirely true. I had a rap buddy who was an Ahmadiyya Muslim and their whole pitch was that Islam had the seeds for world peace...you know, if everyone would just get on the same page. Recently spoke with some Mormon missionaries, due to a prank from another rap buddy, and was awestruck when one of them made the precise same pitch -- that my conversion to The Greatest Masonic Work would be one step closer to world peace and paradise, once we got everyone to just accept the same beliefs.

So their logic is correct -- they just don't accept the equally logical proposition that their goal is fucking impossible.
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Re: Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

Postby Canadian_watcher » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:02 pm

it's funny to read the admonishment regarding belief in anything Tolle has to say (and that's what it is, because there's no nuance, there's only "don't listen to this guy, he's dangerous) and then read, in the same paragraph, people warning that the danger in taking Tolle seriously is that we'd all begin to think alike.

koo-koo bananas.

isn't "we all must NOT think this" the same as "we all MUST" think this?

And out of Tolle and his detractors, which side is actually putting a foot down on the matter and requesting obedience?
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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