Why Eckhart Tolle’s Evolutionary Activism Won’t Save Us

[American Dream]

"Wouldn't it be powerful if all the spiritual/New Age people who are now apolitical and/or liberal got more serious, started questioning their own views of the world and got more involved with radical, grassroots movements for deep social change"...

The apolitical strand
A) What about expanding this statement to be three strands?
Wouldn't it be powerful if all the spiritual/New Age people who are now apolitical
got more oriented to external action,
started questioning their own and others views of the world and
got more involved with radical, grassroots movements for deep social change

The liberal / progressive strand
B) Wouldn't it be powerful if all the spiritual/New Age people who are now liberal / progressive got more serious, started questioning their own views of the world and got more involved with radical, grassroots movements for deep social change

The conservative (*) strand
C) Wouldn't it be powerful if all the spiritual/New Age people who are now conservative got more serious, started questioning their own views of the world and got more involved with radical, grassroots movements for deep social change

What these descriptions are lacking, which AD's description had in abundance - is rich sensory detail.

Due to time, I'll just look at A
Wouldn't it be powerful if all the spiritual/New Age people who are now apolitical
got more oriented to external action,
started questioning their own and others views of the world and
got more involved with radical, grassroots movements
for deep social change

Next Iteration, (incorporating AD's Sensory-Rich description and my expansion ideas)

Wouldn't it be powerful if all the spiritual/New Age people who are now apolitical
got more oriented to making do-it-yourself art, raising babies, distributing free food to all who need, playing music in the park, building community gardens- and meditating in them!, building up squats, standiing in solidarity with the most poor and oppressed;
started questioning their own and others views of the world through learning both creative and design thinking and critical thinking skills and the skills of being a very productive and stress-free person - and got more involved with both creating and growing radical, grassroots movements for deep social change.

Personally, for a first draft, I think that looks , sounds and feels pretty rockin

It's a beautiful vision. And that you were inspired by AD's question to prove his point that way is the highest form of flattery, imo.

Strands "B)" and "C)" might maybe be better expressed if they were modeled on another question, though. Because, as stated, they read as if it was as reasonable to presume that "liberals/progressives" or "conservatives (*)" were NOT involved with radical grassroots movements for deep social change as it is for apolitical New Agers.

And it's not. So that's confusing.

It momentarily threw me a little wrt the liberals in AD's version, too. But only until I got to the word "radical," at which point it became clear that the question was implicitly pro-radical-left, which is what I understand to be AD's political orientation. So it made sense. And there being no more reason for anyone to hide that sort of thing than to spell it out every time, that took care of that.

I like the sound of your utopia. And it's infinities better than anything I could come up with. So if you start a cult any time soon, let me know. I've been feeling just about ready to take the plunge recently.

Lots to chew on here!

Just for the sake of some clarity and common language I will provide some definitions here:

LIBERALISM: a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties; specifically : such a philosophy that considers government as a crucial instrument for amelioration of social inequities (as those involving race, gender, or class)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liberalism

Progressivism is a general political philosophy advocating or favoring gradual social, political, and economic reform through government action.[1] Modern Progressivism emerged as part of a more general response to the vast social changes brought by industrialization.

It is left of center in the political spectrum and is to be contrasted with conservatism on the right and the revolutionary left, the former generally resisting changes it advocates and the latter rejecting its gradualism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

The term political radicalism (or simply, in political science, radicalism) denotes political principles focused on altering social structures through revolutionary means and changing value systems in fundamental ways. Derived from the Latin radix (root), the denotation of radical has changed since its eighteenth-century coinage to comprehend the entire political spectrum—yet retains the “change at the root” connotation fundamental to revolutionary societal change. Historically, radicalism has referred exclusively to the "radical left", under the single category of far-left politics, rarely incorporating far-right politics though these may have revolutionary elements; the prominent exception is in the United States where some consider radicalism to include both political extremes of the radical left and the "radical right". In traditional labels of the spectrum of political thought, the opposite of radical on the "right" of the political spectrum is termed reactionary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_radicalism

[compared2what?]

The term political radicalism (or simply, in political science, radicalism) denotes political principles focused on altering social structures through revolutionary means and changing value systems in fundamental ways. Derived from the Latin radix (root), the denotation of radical has changed since its eighteenth-century coinage to comprehend the entire political spectrum—yet retains the “change at the root” connotation fundamental to revolutionary societal change. Historically, radicalism has referred exclusively to the "radical left", under the single category of far-left politics, rarely incorporating far-right politics though these may have revolutionary elements; the prominent exception is in the United States where some consider radicalism to include both political extremes of the radical left and the "radical right". In traditional labels of the spectrum of political thought, the opposite of radical on the "right" of the political spectrum is termed reactionary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_radicalism

Too true.

And I apologize humbly if I said more (or less) on your behalf than you'd intended to say.

[American Dream]

The term political radicalism (or simply, in political science, radicalism) denotes political principles focused on altering social structures through revolutionary means and changing value systems in fundamental ways. Derived from the Latin radix (root), the denotation of radical has changed since its eighteenth-century coinage to comprehend the entire political spectrum—yet retains the “change at the root” connotation fundamental to revolutionary societal change. Historically, radicalism has referred exclusively to the "radical left", under the single category of far-left politics, rarely incorporating far-right politics though these may have revolutionary elements; the prominent exception is in the United States where some consider radicalism to include both political extremes of the radical left and the "radical right". In traditional labels of the spectrum of political thought, the opposite of radical on the "right" of the political spectrum is termed reactionary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_radicalism

Too true.

And I apologize humbly if I said more (or less) on your behalf than you'd intended to say.

Oh, not at all- you were great. Just amplifying on that theme for the sake of clarity.

[compared2what?]

Here's Tolle on politics in his newsletter.
Seems like he straddles between turn off your mind and go with the flow.
But I don't know, stop seeking the truth, not identifying with what you believe, being passive - don't seem like pro-activism ways of thinking to me.

This passage is especially troubling:

Your first responsibility is not to identify with a position. Everybody has to practice that one way or another. It's a beautiful practice. It's expressed in Zen. I don't remember who said it, some Zen master said, "Don't seek for the truth – just cease cherishing opinions". And that's enough. Many spiritually inclined people look for the ‘truth' – hopefully at some point within, but first it starts outside. But don't look for the truth, not even within, just stop cherishing opinions. Cherishing, not having. It doesn't say stop having opinions, because that would be difficult – maybe a very advanced practice. Even I have some opinions, about Fox News, and so on – but cherishing means to identify with the opinion, to be in the thought. [/b]And then it gives you your sense of "I". Then anybody who has a different or conflicting position becomes a kind of enemy. Then you're trapped in form. This is a very common human condition. Most humans on the planet derive their identity from their thoughts. So the thought is invested with self. Maybe this is another way of speaking about the essential truth of the Buddha, who discovered that this sense of ‘self' is an illusion. You derive your sense of self from form – because every thought is a thought-form. It's an energy field.

I felt this one stood out, too, though on different grounds:

Viewpoints, opinions, and mental positions are all thoughts – the thought says "this is how it is", it is some kind of judgment or perspective on things. To be identified with a mental position is to derive your sense of self from that mental position. It's a substitute identity, form identity, ego – a substitute for your true identity which is formless and has nothing to do with any thought – but is consciousness itself.

Seemingly, he is deriving his sense of self from a mental position that constitutes a substitute identity/form identity/ego by expressing a thought that says "this is how it is" there.

And/or that's some kind of judgment or perspective on things. Identity and thought-forms, primarily.

To borrow from a little further down in the Q&A than I'm quoting here, I know that's what he thinks, and it's okay. However.

It just acts as a salutary reminder regarding the insidious treachery of substitute identity and implacable resilience of ego, for the most part.

I'm sure he'd agree with it, in spirit.

[compared2what?]

Oh, not at all- you were great. Just amplifying on that theme for the sake of clarity.

I always find it interesting to read those little synopses, for some reason. Spur to (dare I say it) thought, I guess.

At (yikes) some risk of losing the whole little stake of not-putting-my-foot-in-my-mouthness that I've just accrued:

One of the things I liked about the way the liberals/apolitical-New-Agers/radicals interplay in your question read to me was that (for some reason) it seemed very expressive of the lesser-known, cheerfully optimistic, pure and playful side of radical movements for deep social change.

Because, needless to say, liberals and apolitical new agers are two of the most radicals-yet-to-be-rich pools of people one might hope to recruit to the cause, from a solid, practical radical-politics point-of-view. Makes sense. Good (dare I say it) thinking.

But it had a little bit of a Christmas-morning feel to it that I found very appealing, too. (Sort of like: "Every liberal and apolitical new ager working for deep social change? I'm so happy! As will they be! And everybody else, too!" Not that goofy, though. I just can't think how to phrase it.)

Very proper (and necessary) way to feel about achieving deep social change, imo. Because working for it is not always so cheery. And that's more the public rep of grassroots radicalism, although the optimism/fun is characteristic, too,

Anyway. That might be what I took from it on my own and got from somewhere else, rather than what you put in, strictly speaking. I don't know. But I liked it. So thanks.

[American Dream]

Oh, not at all- you were great. Just amplifying on that theme for the sake of clarity.

I always find it interesting to read those little synopses, for some reason. Spur to (dare I say it) thought, I guess.

At (yikes) some risk of losing the whole little stake of not-putting-my-foot-in-my-mouthness that I've just accrued:

One of the things I liked about the way the liberals/apolitical-New-Agers/radicals interplay in your question read to me was that (for some reason) it seemed very expressive of the lesser-known, cheerfully optimistic, pure and playful side of radical movements for deep social change.

Because, needless to say, liberals and apolitical new agers are two of the most radicals-yet-to-be-rich pools of people one might hope to recruit to the cause, from a solid, practical radical-politics point-of-view. Makes sense. Good (dare I say it) thinking.

But it had a little bit of a Christmas-morning feel to it that I found very appealing, too. (Sort of like: "Every liberal and apolitical new ager working for deep social change? I'm so happy! As will they be! And everybody else, too!" Not that goofy, though. I just can't think how to phrase it.)

Very proper (and necessary) way to feel about achieving deep social change, imo. Because working for it is not always so cheery. And that's more the public rep of grassroots radicalism, although the optimism/fun is characteristic, too,

Anyway. That might be what I took from it on my own and got from somewhere else, rather than what you put in, strictly speaking. I don't know. But I liked it. So thanks.

I'm not specifically a Ghandian, a Christian, or a follower of Martin Luther King but this is what I resonate with that I hear in those teachings: all human beings are (potentially) capable of growth and change.

That said, the pragmatist inside me wants to analyze things in terms of probabilities of change, too. So I think in terms of "swing votes", to use an electoral analogy. I definitely think adolescents and young adults are a heavy swing vote sector, as well as people with the least stake in the system, i.e. the most oppressed and marginalized.

Liberal and apolitical new age types surely have a place on that list- after all they likely came for idealistic reasons and want to think outside the box, etc. What's hard is that their culture has such problems with self-absorption, of solipsism, dualistic thinking about logic and intuition, hyper-commercialism etc.etc. that it can be really hard to break through the stuckness. After all, new age culture at its most extreme is a universe unto itself, to the degree that it can represent a totalizing and self-sealing world view.

Your mileage may vary.

[Searcher08]

Before discussing some of the important issues raised, I want to have a sensory rich description of just one last part, which has got lost in the speed of this fast moving thread - am asking in the context that a rich sensory description can make a BIG impact here... but to use a cooking analogy - I need your rich sensory seasoning before I can put it in my 'mental incubation' oven

Please could you do the same rich "if I was making a video this is what you would see and hear"
that you did when you mapped the the conceptual language of
"romantic, prefigurative and/or culturally centered type of activity"
to the rich sensory language of
"making do-it-yourself art, raising babies, distributing free food to all who need, playing music in the park, building community gardens- and meditating in them!, building up squats, standiing in solidarity with the most poor and oppressed"

with the conceptual language of
"Moving towards a world that is Post-: Hierarchical, Capitalist, Patriarchal,"White" Supremacist, Heteronormative etc. etc."
so it can be turned into the rich sensory language of
**your description here**?

What would a person tangibly see / hear / feel that would be evidence of that?...

[American Dream]

Before discussing some of the important issues raised, I want to have a sensory rich description of just one last part, which has got lost in the speed of this fast moving thread - am asking in the context that a rich sensory description can make a BIG impact here... but to use a cooking analogy - I need your rich sensory seasoning before I can put it in my 'mental incubation' oven

Please could you do the same rich "if I was making a video this is what you would see and hear"
that you did when you mapped the the conceptual language of
"romantic, prefigurative and/or culturally centered type of activity"
to the rich sensory language of
"making do-it-yourself art, raising babies, distributing free food to all who need, playing music in the park, building community gardens- and meditating in them!, building up squats, standiing in solidarity with the most poor and oppressed"

with the conceptual language of
"Moving towards a world that is Post-: Hierarchical, Capitalist, Patriarchal,"White" Supremacist, Heteronormative etc. etc."
so it can be turned into the rich sensory language of
**your description here**?

What would a person tangibly see / hear / feel that would be evidence of that?...

Do you mean more a utopian vision of where ultimately we want to get, what small steps we can begin to take right now in order to move forward and/or something else?

[Searcher08]

Could I have the small steps initially?

Examples
"working in solidarity with women" is NOT sensory rich and NOT what I want
but
"I called a women's refuge and they said they needed a website to raise funds, so once a week you can see me sitting at a computer, doing a website project in Adobe Dreamweaver, ocassional yelling in frustration at my PC!"

"work with poor people" = No
but
"Once a month, I act as a mentor to an adolescent entrepeneur in a 2 hour meeting whichis full of laughter, great coaching and inspiration and which that leaves her focused and smiling and inspired"

The more examples (even if you think they are trivial) the merrier.

Does that make sense? The purpose of this is that conceptual description is a bit like the menu and the sensory reality is the nourishing meal (or Map vs Territory if you will...) and I want to eat some 'food for thought'

I feel this thread is turning into something very valuable...

[seemslikeadream]

You mean just living a conscious life of conscience is really enough.....

and reading all kinds of stuff in my spare time won't rot my brain?

[American Dream]

Could I have the small steps initially?

Examples
"working in solidarity with women" is NOT sensory rich and NOT what I want
but
"I called a women's refuge and they said they needed a website to raise funds, so once a week you can see me sitting at a computer, doing a website project in Adobe Dreamweaver, ocassional yelling in frustration at my PC!"

"work with poor people" = No
but
"Once a month, I act as a mentor to an adolescent entrepeneur in a 2 hour meeting whichis full of laughter, great coaching and inspiration and which that leaves her focused and smiling and inspired"

The more examples (even if you think they are trivial) the merrier.

Does that make sense? The purpose of this is that conceptual description is a bit like the menu and the sensory reality is the nourishing meal (or Map vs Territory if you will...) and I want to eat some 'food for thought'

I feel this thread is turning into something very valuable...

There's a gazillion different things that people could do which would help make the world a better place- and a huge number of single issue campaigns. My personal emphasis holds that things which somehow will move forward the goal of systems change, profound changes in our social relations are crucial right now.

It would be impossible to do a list that is fitted for all people in all places, even if we narrow things down to this historical moment.

That said, here's a few sample activities:

Reclaiming unused urban spaces- cleaning up dirty vacant lots that belong to absentee landlords- for community gardens that model inter-ethnic cooperation, community building and etc. Organizing for widespread resistance should those with the deeds decide to send in the gendarmerie.

Organizing to free political prisoners- and explaining why these individuals felt the need to resist the status quo. Building on that and working for prison abolition, an end to our "American" War on Drugs, etc.

Building a linked network of counterinstitutions: linked housing co-ops and squats, alternative schools, extralegal sexual assault groups, food co-ops, alternative media based on sound principles etc.

Grassroots labor organizing, especially supporting immigrants and precarious/part-timers and even unwaged workers.

Does that begin to get at what you're looking for?

[worldsastage]

Could I have the small steps initially?

Examples
"working in solidarity with women" is NOT sensory rich and NOT what I want
but
"I called a women's refuge and they said they needed a website to raise funds, so once a week you can see me sitting at a computer, doing a website project in Adobe Dreamweaver, ocassional yelling in frustration at my PC!"

"work with poor people" = No
but
"Once a month, I act as a mentor to an adolescent entrepeneur in a 2 hour meeting whichis full of laughter, great coaching and inspiration and which that leaves her focused and smiling and inspired"

The more examples (even if you think they are trivial) the merrier.

Does that make sense? The purpose of this is that conceptual description is a bit like the menu and the sensory reality is the nourishing meal (or Map vs Territory if you will...) and I want to eat some 'food for thought'

I feel this thread is turning into something very valuable...

I love how this thread is going. In my view these small steps are important. I'd say say you are working in "solidarity with women." The term is descriptive, a concept, but when you are actively maintaining the women's refuge website, the reality of your action matches the concept.

I don't think everyone has to be full on screaming activist mode, though we need that too. As my momma likes to say, and I do take after my momma, it takes all kinds.

Since I grew up materially poor, doing something in addition to sitting around thinking about it has been a no-brainer for me. Dodging bullets has a way of forcing the issue ..you either distrust all, withdraw, become part of it or you go the help the neighbor and all that. The last few days have been busy for me. Dunno about example, but as I do each summer, I mentor some students who otherwise would be written off as stupid or thugs etc. by the dominant society. Two days a week I also walk over to the drug treatment center in the hood to teach the new mommies how to find information on housing, basic life skills training, teach them how to write letters etc for when they leave. I also teach them to navel gaze (editO and things that help one keep a presence of mind when the baby, born addicted, is screaming non-stop and they themselves are craving the drug-induced detachment.

Whether mentoring students or working with the women there is lots of laughs and sharing as work gets done. Sometimes there are tears and screams of frustration, temper flares etc. I know the frustration because like them I take the same public transportation (looked down upon by those of better means) as I live in the same area. I know things can be different and don't see myself as so separate from them. How's that for new age thinking? I learn from them as much as they are supposedly learning from me. So the students, the addicted mommies and me navel gaze sometimes and we work at other times. We learn to advocate for and do something different. The immediate concerns of those I work with may not seem like new age concepts or paraculture. They are more like how to avoid getting shot on the way to the internship or avoid the ex or drug partner they pissed off and demand better for themselves and those they interact with. Listening to them speak, however, what they seem to be thinking and doing is right in line with the positives of paraculture. They, feel, they think about and question how they got to be in the situation they find themselves in and what they can do. They are also actively figuring out how survive while holding on to their humanity and contribute in a meaningful way to society. It's inspiring to watch a student from the previous year help the new ones learn algebra, knit a scarf, plant veggies or meditate. Fun stuff, necessary stuff.

Edited for spelling, grammar etc.

[American Dream]

Could I have the small steps initially?

Examples
"working in solidarity with women" is NOT sensory rich and NOT what I want
but
"I called a women's refuge and they said they needed a website to raise funds, so once a week you can see me sitting at a computer, doing a website project in Adobe Dreamweaver, ocassional yelling in frustration at my PC!"

"work with poor people" = No
but
"Once a month, I act as a mentor to an adolescent entrepeneur in a 2 hour meeting whichis full of laughter, great coaching and inspiration and which that leaves her focused and smiling and inspired"

The more examples (even if you think they are trivial) the merrier.

Does that make sense? The purpose of this is that conceptual description is a bit like the menu and the sensory reality is the nourishing meal (or Map vs Territory if you will...) and I want to eat some 'food for thought'

I feel this thread is turning into something very valuable...

I love how this thread is going. In my view these small steps are important. I'd say say you are working in "solidarity with women." The term is descriptive, a concept, but when you are actively maintaining the women's refuge website, the reality of your action matches the concept.

I don't think everyone has to be full on screaming activist mode, though we need that too. As my momma likes to say, and I do take after my momma, it takes all kinds.

Since I grew up materially poor, doing something in addition to sitting around thinking about it has been a no-brainer for me. Dodging bullets has a way of forcing the issue ..you either distrust all, withdraw, become part of it or you go the help the neighbor and all that. The last few days have been busy for me. Dunno about example, but as I do each summer, I mentor some students who otherwise would be written off as stupid or thugs etc. by the dominant society. Two days a week I also walk over to the drug treatment center in the hood to teach the new mommies how to find information on housing, basic life skills training, teach them how to write letters etc for when they leave. I also teach them to navel graze and things that help one keep a presence of mind when the baby, born addicted is screaming non-stop and they themselves are craving the drug-induced detachment.

Whether mentoring students or working with the women there is lots of laughs and sharing as work gets done. Sometimes there are tears and screams of frustration, temper flare etc. I know the frustration because like them I take the same public transportation (looked down upon by those of better means), I live in the same area I know things can be different and don't see myself as so separate from them. How's that for new age thinking. I learn from them as much as they are supposedly learning from me. So the students, the addicted mommies and me navel graze sometimes and we work at other times. We learn to advocate for and do something different. The immediate concerns of those I work with may not seem like new age concepts or paraculture. They are more like how to avoid getting shot on the way to the internship or avoid the ex or drug partner they pissed off and demand better for themselves and those they interact with. Listening to them speak, however, what they seem to be thinking and doing is right in line with the positives of paraculture. The, feel, they think about and question how they got to be in the situation the find themselves in and what they can do. They are also actively figuring out how survive while holding on to their humanity and contribute in a meaningful way to society. It's inspiring to watch a student from the previous year help the new ones learn algebra, knit a scarf, plant veggies or meditate. Fun stuff, necessary stuff.

This is the real world, the real struggle, to me. Great stuff...

[psynapz]

I'm not specifically a Ghandian, a Christian, or a follower of Martin Luther King but this is what I resonate with that I hear in those teachings: all human beings are (potentially) capable of growth and change.

That said, the pragmatist inside me wants to analyze things in terms of probabilities of change, too. So I think in terms of "swing votes", to use an electoral analogy. I definitely think adolescents and young adults are a heavy swing vote sector, as well as people with the least stake in the system, i.e. the most oppressed and marginalized.

Liberal and apolitical new age types surely have a place on that list- after all they likely came for idealistic reasons and want to think outside the box, etc. What's hard is that their culture has such problems with self-absorption, of solipsism, dualistic thinking about logic and intuition, hyper-commercialism etc.etc. that it can be really hard to break through the stuckness. After all, new age culture at its most extreme is a universe unto itself, to the degree that it can represent a totalizing and self-sealing world view.

All true, thanks for sharing that. See, this is the kind of interaction we were yearning for back in the ugly days of the Begley thread. Thanks for taking the time to share in this thread. It's humanizing, like your messages are riding on a more relatable subcarrier. Great thread, hope to contribute when I have more time.

Also Searcher, you're doing an incredible job facilitating this conversation without coming across obtrusively, which an ex of mine occasionally did which leaves me sensitive to the detection of it during in-person conversation, so that's saying something.

[Searcher08]

I'm not specifically a Ghandian, a Christian, or a follower of Martin Luther King but this is what I resonate with that I hear in those teachings: all human beings are (potentially) capable of growth and change.

That said, the pragmatist inside me wants to analyze things in terms of probabilities of change, too. So I think in terms of "swing votes", to use an electoral analogy. I definitely think adolescents and young adults are a heavy swing vote sector, as well as people with the least stake in the system, i.e. the most oppressed and marginalized.

Liberal and apolitical new age types surely have a place on that list- after all they likely came for idealistic reasons and want to think outside the box, etc. What's hard is that their culture has such problems with self-absorption, of solipsism, dualistic thinking about logic and intuition, hyper-commercialism etc.etc. that it can be really hard to break through the stuckness. After all, new age culture at its most extreme is a universe unto itself, to the degree that it can represent a totalizing and self-sealing world view.

All true, thanks for sharing that. See, this is the kind of interaction we were yearning for back in the ugly days of the Begley thread. Thanks for taking the time to share in this thread. It's humanizing, like your messages are riding on a more relatable subcarrier. Great thread, hope to contribute when I have more time.

Also Searcher, you're doing an incredible job facilitating this conversation without coming across obtrusively, which an ex of mine occasionally did which leaves me sensitive to the detection of it during in-person conversation, so that's saying something.

Thank you, psynapz -and to * everyone * on this thread -