Edward Snowden, American Hero

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Edward Snowden, American Hero

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:55 am

Edward Snowden asylum: countries approached and their responses
The NSA whistleblower has made 21 applications for asylum worldwide as he flees the US – with little success

Haroon Siddique
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 2 July 2013 07.02 EDT

Edward Snowden has made 21 applications for asylum. Photograph: The Guardian/Reuters
According to a statement from WikiLeaks, the US whistleblower Edward Snowden has applied for asylum in a total of 21 countries. Snowden, who has been charged under espionage laws in the US after leaking top-secret documents on US surveillance programmes, has been trapped in Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport since 23 June after flying in from Hong Kong. He has yet to receive a positive response to his applications for asylum. Some countries have yet to respond but a number have already rejected his request.

Austria

No. The interior minister, Johanna Mikl-Leitner, said Snowden would have to submit his request for asylum while on Austrian soil. But she added that he would not be deported if he arrived in Austria because "there is no international arrest warrant".

Bolivia

No response.

Brazil

No. A foreign ministry spokesman said Brazil would not grant asylum, adding that it would leave the request unanswered.

China

No response.

Cuba

No response.

Ecuador

No. The president, Rafael Correa, said he was not considering Snowden's asylum request. In an interview with the Guardian, Correa said Snowden would have to reach Ecuadorean territory before the country would consider any asylum request. The US has cancelled Snowden's passport, and Correa said his government would not give Snowden an authorised travel document to extract himself from Moscow airport. "The right of asylum request is one thing, but helping someone travel from one country to another – Ecuador has never done this."

Finland

No. The Finnish foreign ministry spokeswoman Tytti Pylkkö said Finnish law required Snowden to be in the country for him to apply.

France

No response. The president, François Hollande, has called for a common EU stance on the NSA snooping.

Germany

No response.

Iceland

No response.

India

No. Syed Akbaruddin, a spokesman for India's foreign ministry, said on Twitter: "Following careful examination we have concluded that we see no reason to accede to the Snowden request"

Italy

No response.

Ireland

No. A spokesman for the department of justice said that under Irish law an asylum application could only be accepted from a person who had landed in or was within the state.

The Netherlands

No response.

Nicaragua

No response.

Norway

No. The Norwegian deputy justice secretary, Paal Loenseth, told the state broadcaster NRK: "Applying for asylum should be done on Norwegian soil. According to normal procedures … his demand will be denied."

Poland

No. The foreign minister, Radosław Sikorski, wrote on his Twitter account: "I will not give a positive recommendation."

Russia

No. Snowden withdrew his request after Vladimir Putin's statement making clear that he would be welcome only if he stopped "his work aimed at bringing harm" to the United States.

Spain

No. The foreign minister, José García-Margallo, told reporters in the Spanish parliament: "For it [the application] to be legally admissible, it has to be made by a person who is in Spain."

Switzerland

No response.

Venezuela

Possible. On a visit to Moscow, the president, Nicolás Maduro, said he would consider an asylum request and said the whistleblower "deserves the world's protection".

"We think this young person has done something very important for humanity, has done a favour to humanity, has spoken great truths to deconstruct a world … that is controlled by an imperialist American elite," he said.

But asked whether he would take Snowden back to Venezuela with him, Maduro answered wryly: "What we're taking with us are multiple agreements that we're signing with Russia, including oil and gas."
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Edward Snowden, American Hero

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:07 am

JULY 02, 2013

2
An Open Letter to Melissa Harris-Perry
Brain Death, Live on MSNBC
by GARY LEUPP
Dear Melissa Harris-Perry,

I watched your twelve-minute segment this morning concerning Edward Snowden. You were smiling throughout, confident, flippant, warmly communicative as always, as though you assumed your audience shared all your premises.

It’s likely most in the crowd did, actually—given two weeks of constant media spinning of the Snowden revelations story, and the media-wide abandonment, as if by fiat, of all examination of the revelations’ content. Do you not see that that content is way beyond merely troubling?

If you do not see that this is all alarming, your mind is atrophying. (But don’t worry; it’s not abnormal in totalitarian societies for the brain-dead to steadily move along in their tasks. And you are very well paid, after all, in these troubled times.)

Does it not bother you that thousands of managers of tens or hundreds of thousands of “data analysts” can (without court approval, not that secret court approval makes any difference) sift through your personal data and compose a portrait of your life? Are you upset with Snowden because he showed us that this is so? Do you find him a problem because he made this clear?

Is your desire to shelter Obama so strong, or your inclination to protect your GE employers so deep, that you’ve elected to jump aboard the bandwagon of Snowden-bashers?

In that segment this morning, you spoke as if your words could just hang beautifully in the air, unchallenged, like your trademark plaits.

Until that moment I thought you were a pretty decent, progressive person. You are articulate. You think well on your feet. Your peerless looks contribute to your efficacy as a purveyor of mainstream acceptable thought.

(I confess that in talking with my Hollywood son—also half-white and sometimes cast as “exotic”—I’ve suggested that you might be appropriately cast as Nefertiti in a film. Because—for whatever random reasons of DNA—you happen to be stunningly beautiful. Please do not accuse me of sexism for making this empirical observation, which I’m sure your employers have made time and time again in this era in which journalism degrees don’t account for much and you never see normal homely people announce the infotainment news. It also helps that you have a distinctive lilt in your voice, rather like Barbara Walters. It’s undeniably charming.)

I’m certainly not hostile to you (the way that I am to the most egregious dispensers of disinformation of events in Iran, Syria, and virtually everywhere that thrive in the post-9/11 propagandistic state-ass-licking corporate mass media culture). But I do find your commentaries sometimes shallow, and note that they’re always politically safe. That is, they’re contained within the narrow spectrum of political views that GE, News-Corp, Disney, Viacom, Time-Warner and CBS allow. (As you know, these six corporations own 90% of the news coverage in this free capitalist country.) You’re not rocking the boat. You can’t call for real change in society, just tweaks here and there.

You have a political science doctorate, and you understand how the needs and preferences of capital shape political discourse. You know how General Electric, the owner of your employer MSNBC, is not a neutral observer of the Snowden Affair. It’s a corporation caught with its pants down as Snowden has exposed it a complicit partner in illicit spying.

You know that on June 5 Snowden via Glen Greenwald (nothing if not an honorable man, a lawyer and journalist, a man of integrity) bared to the world the fact that the U.S. invades the lives of people, here and elsewhere, with frightening impunity. You may know that the government of Germany, a very very close ally, is freaking out at the realization that the U.S. has raped its telecommunications for reasons that have nothing to do with “countering terrorism.”

But you seem entirely un-interested in such things. By default (as a smiling non-inquiring journalist) you’re an adherent of the camp that says, “Why should it matter?”

Let’s look at what you said, today, June 29, on NSMBC.

You start: “The latest news on NSA leaker Edward Snowden that he’s holed up in an airport in Moscow, with the United States eager to bring him home to face charges.”

Ok, not so bad so far, and I have to imagine this is scripted by your employer. Of course the people of the United States have not been asked whether or not they are “eager” to bring Snowden “home” or whether they think the charges (espionage!) against him have any credibility. But you (are you not?) doing your part to instill in them the notion that Snowden should face charges.

This is certainly not the global consensus, but you are doing your part to make it the U.S. consensus. You’re helping transform the Gallop poll results that showed a plurality of people in the country as of mid-June supporting Snowden’s decision to results that show him isolated and despised.

Are you proud of that, Melissa? Do you like being such a reliable soldier of the state as it slides towards fascism? Can you justify it in your own troubled mind, because, after all, it’s happening under your hero Obama?

You continue: “Snowden’s flight has strained relationships with China and Russia, which both have so far refused to send him back.”

The assumption here is that the normal, reasonable thing would be to “send him back.” And that the “refusal” is an attack of some sort, part of a pattern of nastiness.

But (excuse my language) WTF are talking about, Melissa? Do you really believe that any government in this world, however bad, is obliged by international law or some transcendent moral standard to turn over a whistle-blower from the U.S, , who has shown the world how the U.S. government has obtained a fascistic merger of state and corporate power to spy on its populace, to send the guy back?

Back to what sort of justice?

Have you no concern about what’s happened to hundreds of doomed innocents in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib? Are you ignorant of what’s happened to Bradley Manning? Or are you fine with it?

Would it not be more appropriate, and journalistically responsible, to state that Snowden’s flights to Hong Kong and then to Moscow were at his own initiative and through no known prior arrangement with airport authorities at those venues? And that and the polite refusal of local authorities (seeing no crime in Snowden’s behavior, as normal people might evaluate that behavior) to turn him over the government he’s exposed does not proceed from any willful intention to “strain relationships” but from a concern with normal procedure? Would you prefer they just fork him over when Washington barks?

Do you really think, Melissa, that Putin should turn over Snowden to U.S. imprisonment as a matter of course? How do you suppose Obama would treat a Russian whistle-blower turning over to the New York Times records of massive surveillance of Russian citizens’ phone and internet communications? Would you apply your capacity for moral indignation to support his immediate extradition?

In your program you proceeded to trash Ecuador, where Snowden seeks asylum, and two countries he’s visited on his odyssey so far, as countries lacking in human rights (according to the State Department of…..what country? With what record of human rights? With what incarceration statistics?)

PLEASE, Melissa. It is not necessary for you to so debase yourself as to stand up for “American” justice vis-à-vis the Ecuadoran.

And you trash China, in the very independent Hong Kong territory of which Snowden sought sanctuary for a time. And Russia, where he is now, for their brutal record in dealing with journalists. What’s your point, Melissa?

This is a man trying to get to Iceland, for gods sakes, a country with the longest parliamentary tradition in the world, trying to do it through Hong Kong which is not a mirror of Beijing. Why are you buying into this scripted narrative whereby Snowden like some creature in a Cold War movie works with the evil Chinese, and then the evil Soviets? Can’t you see a rationale in his flight plans that is not politically/ideologically motivated but driven by the need to insure personal safety after a whistle-blowing feat that Daniel Ellsberg (whom maybe? you respect) has called the most significant since his airing of the Pentagon Papers? Don’t you realize how the Obama administration has dealt with whistle-blowers?

“That’s not something I call heroic,” you conclude, after your unfounded, tendentious references to Snowden turning over material to China and Russia (and your facile assumption that these are enemies.)

Personally, Melissa, I am much more concerned with the fact that we are being intimately monitored by the state—this state headed by Obama, no different than the state headed by G. W. Bush—than I am with any information on U.S. spying that might fall into Chinese or Russian hands. How does it harm me if—and it’s still a big if—Moscow (which is not a U.S. enemy, merely another capitalist power analogous to Germany or France but not corralled into a political camp) acquires metadata harvested by U.S. data analysts? Should I be more concerned that Putin knows my internet habits than Obama?

You said, “Snowden is giving any country he hides in more leverage in their dealings with the U.S.” Why do you think that’s negative?

Given what the U.S. government does—including to us (the real “us,” the people of this country)—why would you suppose that giving “leverage” to others in relation to the government of this class-divided, conflicted country is a bad thing?

You mention the model of civil disobedience represented by Martin Luther King (and Henry David Thoreau, and Gandhi, in an interesting historical continuum). You suggest that if Snowden were really observing proprieties he’d have blown his whistle here and submitted to U.S. justice. Have you forgotten how King was wiretapped by the FBI? Wasn’t that surveillance legal at the time? Why should we care and grovel at the legalities of a power structure doing wrong?

Why do you feel obliged to wed your career to such wrong? Surely you can do better. I will not say you owe Snowden an apology (although you do) but just suggest you use your fine brain a little more before you read the corporate media script and preside over a panel discussion. The one this morning included three nodding heads, no dissent, no depth, no content other than a peculiarly bizarre form of propaganda.

You averred that people exposing the fact that we are all being illegally monitored was treason. You flipped right and wrong on the head. You should be ashamed.

There are categories of pornography in which the fucked person (male or female) doesn’t appear to really enjoy the experience but is obliged throughout to say the he/she enjoys it. The Obama administration is fucking with us big time, and asking us to say, in reply: I like it.

In dissing Snowden, you are in effect saying: I like it. Go ahead and fuck me, you’re the government, protecting me from terrorism. If some decent person sees what’s happening and cries rape, or tries to intervene to protect you, you smack him down because he’s….

….I don’t know. How would you end the sentence, Melissa? Because he’s protecting me? (From other rapists, perhaps?)

And how can sleep at night realizing the damage you’ve done to a young man shocked by the expansion of secret government powers, giving up everything to protect what you grew up thinking were your “rights”?

Best wishes on your promising career, in abject service to the power structure.

Sincerely,

Gary P. Leupp
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Edward Snowden, American Hero

Postby Spiro C. Thiery » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:12 pm

Via the corps of bringing good things to death (h/t: Tim Robbins), Wanda "I got a college degree" Sykes in a format where she can prattle on unchallenged by any serious logic, making this muppet show little more than populist fascism:


Tell me I friggin' wrong.
Seeing the world through rose-colored latex.
User avatar
Spiro C. Thiery
 
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:58 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Edward Snowden, American Hero

Postby norton ash » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Tell me I friggin' wrong.


No... you right, cap.

Such spontaneous talk-show banter, nobody catapulting the propaganda here. I'm sure she gave the Leno audience base of old white people a real kick... Damn right. They should hang that little prick.
Zen horse
User avatar
norton ash
 
Posts: 4067
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Canada
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Edward Snowden, American Hero

Postby Project Willow » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:33 pm

Scary.
User avatar
Project Willow
 
Posts: 4798
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Edward Snowden, American Hero

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:37 pm

so with the republicans hatred for Obama they could really make hay out of all of this ...like Benghazi....why are they so silent?
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Edward Snowden, American Hero

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:13 pm

"world will be shocked" by upcoming revelations about the National Security Agency's surveillance

Glenn Greenwald To Fox News: 'The World Will Be Shocked' By New NSA Stories (VIDEO)
The Huffington Post | By Jack Mirkinson
Posted: 07/02/2013 9:23 am EDT | Updated: 07/02/2013 9:40 am EDT

Glenn Greenwald told Fox News on Tuesday that the "world will be shocked" by upcoming revelations about the National Security Agency's surveillance.

Greenwald spoke to the network's Eric Bolling, who has been a defender of Edward Snowden, the leaker who passed the NSA documents to the Guardian. Bolling asked him to divulge some information about what he has planned next, but Greenwald was coy.

"You're going to have to wait along with everybody else," he said. "I will say that there are vast programs, both domestic and international spying, that the world will be shocked to learn about, that the NSA is engaged in with no democratic accountability and that's what driving our reporting."

Greenwald also said that he has not been in touch with Snowden since he left Hong Kong.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Edward Snowden, American Hero

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:02 pm

Bolivia: Presidential plane forced to land after false rumors of Snowden onboard
By Catherine E. Shoichet, CNN
updated 7:33 PM EDT, Tue July 2, 2013

"We cannot lie ... by carrying ghost passengers," a Bolivian official said of rumors Edward Snowden was on the plane.
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
NEW: Bolivia's defense minister blames the United States government
NEW: Ecuador's foreign minister calls for a regional meeting over the matter
Bolivia says suspicions that Snowden was on a presidential plane are "unfounded"
The plane had to land in Austria after French and Portuguese officials wouldn't let it land
(CNN) -- Bolivian officials say their country's presidential plane had to land in Austria on Tuesday after false rumors circulated that former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden was aboard the plane.
Portuguese and French authorities wouldn't let President Evo Morales' plane land in their territories, Bolivian Foreign Minister David Choquehuanca told reporters.
"We are told that there were some unfounded suspicions that Mr. Snowden was on the plane," Choquehuanca said. "We do not know who has invented this lie. Someone who wants to harm our country. This information that has been circulated is malicious information to harm this country."
Snowden's asylum options dwindle
The plane had been flying from Moscow back to Bolivia. The foreign minister said authorities from the South American country are investigating the source of the false rumors about Snowden.
Bolivian Defense Minister Ruben Saavedra told CNN en Español that he believed the United States government was behind the rumors.
"This is a lie, a falsehood," he said. "It was generated by the U.S. government."
Bolivia's air travel rights were violated, he said.
"It is an outrage. It is an abuse. It is a violation of the conventions and agreements of international air transportation," he said.
Bolivia's foreign minister told reporters that the move had put the president's life at risk.
"Portugal owes us an explanation. France owes us an explanation," Choquehuanca said.
'Unbowed' Snowden seeks new havens
Morales had been in Russia for a conference of gas-exporting countries, where he told the Russia Today news network that he would be willing to consider asylum for Snowden.
But Bolivian officials stressed that accusations that an official aircraft would harbor Snowden were baseless.
"We cannot lie to the international community by carrying ghost passengers," Choquehuanca said.
The situation drew a swift rebuke from Ecuador's foreign minister, who told reporters he planned to call a regional meeting of the Union of South American Nations, known as UNASUR, to discuss it.
"We consider this a huge offense, and I will call for a UNASUR special summit with foreign secretaries to discuss this issue," Ecuadorian Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino said.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Edward Snowden, American Hero

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:34 pm

The one thing I hasve been amazed at during this whole debacle is how totally liberal friends have been hooked into the MSM 'Catch me If You Can' framing of the situation. There is no discussion whatsoever about what he did and all my many attempts to engage have resembled bouncing against a memetic rubber wall. It is like Snowden is in an inter-contitnetal version of the 'Big Brother' reality show based in Moscow airport with countries phoning in to vote him out.
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Edward Snowden, American Hero

Postby Joao » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:37 pm

Searcher08 wrote:It is like Snowden is in an inter-contitnetal version of the 'Big Brother' reality show based in Moscow airport with countries phoning in to vote him out.

I admit to being caught up in Snowden's "White Bronco moment," as Greenwald put it... I'm sitting here refreshing Wikileaks' Twitter and /r/snowden on Reddit, hoping for news of asylum or some great escape. (Alas, it seems EJS wasn't really on Bolivian Air Force One, after all.)

While I detest this transformation into spectacle, I can't help but funnel my thoughts and fears into a desire to see him make it out in one piece, and to see the mighty USG rebuffed on the world stage. Is it all being put on for our enjoyment, in order to lead us deeper into coercion? Perhaps, although I'm still holding out hope that the international stage management required for such a feat is just too implausible, even in this day and age.
Joao
 
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Edward Snowden, American Hero

Postby hava007 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:11 pm

being myself a precursor of ths "asylum dillema", which happened in Canada, my thoughts turn to this man and to the tough choices. I think he made a correct decision with Russia, given Putin's very revealing statement. The americans are facing a challenge, and I hope this great nation will remember its historic role, and let this guy back as a free man, if not a hero. any other solution will be very sad for all of us.
hava007
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:55 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Edward Snowden, American Hero

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:24 pm

seemslikeadream » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:37 pm wrote:so with the republicans hatred for Obama they could really make hay out of all of this ...like Benghazi....why are they so silent?



Because they love it when Obama and his boys blow up villagers, carry out assassination campaigns and further along and add steroids to Bush era policy. They just can't openly like them, aside from the Bill Kristols of the world, cuz he's black. Only some on the right take issue with the NSA, wars, etc.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Edward Snowden, American Hero

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:30 pm

So this Snowden is such a hot potato cyber bin Laden, that Bolivia's leader plane had to be diverted cuz they thought he was on it? Geez. My main interest in this Snowden case
is as always, anything that makes the United States government look bad. However, I still hate Russia and consider them eternal thugs(Putin recently signed into law more harsh anti gay laws, so fuck Russia)

By the way, doesnt Obama and his pals realize that they are losing their own liberal base every day the more they come off as Bush era thugs? I mean I myself am happy to finally see the Obamabots
snapping out of their spell, as much as I will always defend Obama from savage fictitious based attacks from right wing-tards.

But to me the focus should be about Bradley Manning. This guy did not reveal massive NSA spying. He revealed hardcore traitorous war crimes en masse committed and covered up by the United States. Fuck Obama
for treating this brave hero like a terrorist.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Edward Snowden, American Hero

Postby hava007 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:57 pm

now to u see the double edge of cyber activity and activism, isnt it time for americans to physically protest ? for instance demonstrate for manning ?in multitudes ? (peacefully of course) ? the other side is physically making it safe for whistleblowers to maintain freedom/livelihood at the time of persecution ? and money, foundations for legal protection of whistleblowers and so forth. More so, to stop picking the bones of the very few people who do something along the lines of resistance to these systems of security complexes.
hava007
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:55 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Edward Snowden, American Hero

Postby KeenInsight » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:54 am

This has been posted before in the forum I think, but probably not this thread?

Might as well post it everywhere, because its Truth:

User avatar
KeenInsight
 
Posts: 663
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:17 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 184 guests